Saturday, August 14, 2010
SNL
Posted by Max Brantley on Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 4:53 PM
Nothing much here. Over to you.
Oh, I did receive this snapshot from today's Cave City Watermelon Festival.
- EVERY DECAL TELLS A STORY
Comments (46)
Showing 1-46 of 46
like
dislike
Not only that, but the flag waver would be shocked to learn, that the area around Cave City and environs was solidly Union during "the war." He'd have gotten his damn fool head shot off for waving that flag.
I read a very depressing and distressing article in the New Yorker. Like a lot of you, esp those over 40, I loved to read young adult adventure stories in my pre and early teen years. Nancy Drew for girls, and Boy's Life, Hardy Boys and sports stories for us boys. But today, authors of that genre that want to be semi-realistic have to set the stories in the 60's-70's or in a pretty far away future, because kids today can't imagine being autonomous enough in today's world to have adventures. They can't go out riding bikes alone or walking in the woods or playing unorganized games like hare and hound without constant adult supervision. Huck Finn would've never got on the raft, much less be down by the river. Aunt Polly would've had him and Tom behind that painted white fence, never to exit that yard. Progress--HA.
Joke of the Day...
There were four country churches in a small Texas town: The Presbyterian Church, the Baptist Church, the Methodist Church and the Catholic Church. Each church was overrun with pesky squirrels.
One day, the Presbyterian Church called a meeting to decide what to do about the squirrels. After much prayer and consideration they determined that the squirrels were predestined to be there and they shouldn't interfere with God's divine will.
In the Baptist Church the squirrels had taken up habitation in the baptistery. The deacons met and decided to put a cover on the baptistery and drown the squirrels in it. The squirrels escaped somehow and there were twice as many there the next week.
The Methodist Church got together and decided that they were not in a position to harm any of God's creation. So, they humanely trapped the Squirrels and set them free a few miles outside of town. Three days later, the squirrels were back.
But -- The Catholic Church came up with the best and most effective solution. They baptized the squirrels and registered them as members of the church. Now they only see them on Christmas and Easter.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/142133/Confiden…
" . . . Americans continue to express near-record-low confidence in newspapers and television news -- with no more than 25% of Americans saying they have a "great deal" or "quite a lot" of confidence in either. These views have hardly budged since falling more than 10 percentage points from 2003-2007.
The findings are from Gallup's annual Confidence in Institutions survey, which found the military faring best and Congress faring worst of 16 institutions tested. Americans' confidence in newspapers and television news is on par with Americans' lackluster confidence in banks and slightly better than their dismal rating of Health Management Organizations and big business.
The decline in trust since 2003 is also evident in a 2009 Gallup poll that asked about confidence and trust in the "mass media" more broadly. While perceptions of media bias present a viable hypothesis, Americans have not over the same period grown any more likely to say the news media are too conservative or too liberal.
No matter the cause, it is clear the media as a whole are not gaining new fans . . . "
I wonder why that is ???? Do you think the Faux news and attack pundits model of 'saying anything they think they can get a temporary viewer with' has anything to do with it?
Take a look at the age group numbers they are interesting. IMHO!
http://tinyurl.com/shockjockshocked
". . . Hal Turner, the ultra-right-wing shock jock who spied on white supremacists for the FBI, was convicted Friday — on the government’s third try — of threatening to murder three Chicago judges last summer.
A federal jury in Brooklyn, N.Y., took less than two hours to find Turner, 48, of North Bergen, N.J., guilty of using his blog to terrorize the judges for upholding handgun bans in Chicago and Oak Park, Ill.
U.S. District Judge Donald Walter ordered Turner locked up as a danger to the community pending sentencing. He faces up to 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. No date was set . . . Turner was found guilty of a single count of threatening to assault and murder the chief judge and two other judges of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit by writing in a June 2009 blog post that they "deserve to be killed" for a ruling that Turner feared would open the door for local gun bans across the country.
His publishing of their photos and courthouse addresses, along with a map, the following day was further evidence of his intent to intimidate and impede the judges in the performance of their duties, prosecutors said. . . ."
". . . But he really didn't mean it! . . . He just wouldn't hurt a fly . . .
This whole Facebook phenomenon can be a bit juvenile at times, but sometimes it's a kick in the pants.
I recently received a "friend request'' from the brother of my very first girlfriend. I may have mentioned her before...we were together from junior year in high school to our senior year in college.
Distance certainly took a toll on our blooming L relationship (we went to different colleges), but it was apparent toward the end we really weren't philosophically or intellectually compatible. I think we clung together as long as we did because we thought we were the only two Ls in the South. We were totally closeted from everyone we knew.
In the end, we simply wanted different things out of life. She explained that she couldn't be an L because she couldn't go through life being an outcast from her family, friends and society as a devout Catholic. She wanted to be a housewife and she wanted a family. At the time (1988 and living in the South), I understood her rationale and wished her a happy life. Of course, I knew that wasn't the course I'd be taking.
Within a year, she was married to her "beard'' boyfriend from college. When I say "beard,'' I'm referring to a cover boyfriend to mask that we were Ls. (I had "beards'' until I was 26...that's just what we had to do back in the day. Heck, I still know people who do it today.)
I remember almost pitying her when I heard the news of her nuptials because I knew she wasn't in love with the guy. I actually knew him pretty well.
About ten years passed and a mutual friend of ours from high school called to tell me Katie had given birth to her third child. I thought, "Great, I hope she's found true happiness.''
I thought enough time had passed that I could give her a call and tell her myself. She answered the phone and I said, "Hey Katie. This is Sistertoldja. Amy just told me you had your third little one and I was just calling to say congratulations and see how you were doing.''
There was an eerie silence on the other end of the line but I could hear her breathing. She then said tersely, "Why did you call here?"
Taken aback by her rudeness, I said, "It's been 10 years and I was wondering how you were. I live in Arkansas and was happy to hear that you had three healthy kids.''
There was more silence before I heard a click. She had hung up on me. I was actually shocked at her reaction to my call because we had split amicably 10 years before. I anticipated we'd have a fun conversation just catching up on what we were doing in our very different lives.
That whole thing took place 12 years ago.
Anyway, her brother's "friend request'' of late made me chuckle (I'm sure he has absolutely no clue that I was his sister's girlfriend back in the day. Of course, I would never betray that confidence in a millions years, either).
I would love to be a fly on the wall the next time he sees her and says, "Hey, Katie. I'm Facebook friends with Sistertoldja. You ever talk to her anymore? I know that y'all used to be best friends.''
I bet she'll wet her pants.
I didnt get my new yorker for this week yet, but I read every one of the Nancy Drew books and we could go just about anywhere we wanted as long as we asked/told our parents where we were going first. i think that was primarily in case fred was playing at your house and his mother called yours to find out what y'all were up to, she would know.
our mothers just wanted to know for their peace of mind anyway. I can't really remember asking permission to go anywhere and being denied. Maybe I didn't ask for much freedom. We had the same rules for ours, except with less options. yes, you can walk up to the creek on uncle C's farm/the pond/whatever as long as you ask/tell me first. my little one used to run to the phone when he was four or five and up and call "uncle" C to tell him the witnesses were coming. in my defense they had just built a new temple in our part of town and hit our area pretty hard.
thats why we moved back to the small town where I grew up when we had kids. even though times have changed, and you dont do that any more, my kids got to go camping out at someone's farm (poor dad included) and at another friend's house who lived way out in the middle of nowhere, in the house his grandmother grew up in, and even in our front yard at the edge of the city limits. This was acceptable camping territory because we had a pool in the back and damned if I dont miss it every single day. I used it more than the kids did after the new wore off. But they, like, swam, and I floated around & read with a dog on my tummy or on the neighboring air mattress. I didnt worry about them when they were at friends' homes or farms and in several cases I had known their friends' parents all my life. Grandparents, too.
we also had the same rules that if someone else's parent/grandparent told you to stop doing something or dont ride your bike here or whatever, you obeyed, and they didnt even call your parents unless you were doing something really ignorant.
Some grandmas would even go to other kids' baseball games, including one who told my ex to shut up once. I love her dearly. He was being a jerk telling the poor child how to play catcher, which sort of has a confined area anyway.
Most of us need little reminding but to follow up last night's post about reality being a left-wing conspiracy (E=MC2 is a conspiracy) dryskull takes the time to explain why there's numerous conspiracy theories presented to the ___? (fill in the blank).
dryskull explains:
“Gish Gallop“: throw as many claims out there as possible, regardless of their validity, with the realization that most people will be swayed by the amount of “evidence”, and not look too closely at the details.
We've seen it on here numerous times and when Harvey Freddo Strangelove manages another personna he will join what-the-hell, Miss FireBlancheLincoln and ActMax to continue
Gishing.
http://scientopia.org/blogs/skullsinthesta…
A few of the 'rabble' show up to protest the JohnnyBlanche Show in Hot Springs yesterday. Signs are clever.
http://www.progressivearkansas.com/system/…
I normally go to the Cave City Watermelon Festival. In fact, I've been to three of the past four. But in the interest of being fair I went to the Hope Melon Fest today instead.
Once I get cooled down just a little more, I'll put something over on Eat Arkansas about it. Short thing is: five times larger, and there was a monkey photo booth. All for now.
Sister, I found your story about you ex amazing...There is one closeted girl, that she wouldn't even talk to you is telling. Do you think she just totally compartmentalized her life and denies being a L?
Do you think its true that people can go through a "gay phase and just experiment? I knew someone in grad school married, with grown children and then decided she was a L, the relationship didn't work out and I think she married another man.
That's actually a mighty sad story there, Sister. I am sure it hurt your feelings more than you're letting on. Once years ago after my first wife was beyond knowing anything, beyond any chance of recovery, one drunken Sunday I decided I'd call up an old girlfriend that I knew was still single and after several attempts to contact her, her father called me and said Lisa didn't want to talk to me, didn't want any contact with me whatsoever, ever.
Yes I was drunk, but it was like having a red hot poker rammed through me. We had parted amicably too. We weren't in the closet. She was single and way off in Little Rock, so drunk or sober I couldn't have knocked on her door.
All these years later I think of that when I pass her parent's home...too often. I don't know what Lisa was afraid of or why she was so sure she didn't ever want to talk to me. When I drive past her childhood home I entertain myself by imagining she's a hefty old spinster living at the end of lonely road in a falling down house filthy with cats.
So....let's pretend Katie has a miserable marriage to a total lunkhead, horrible children in trouble with the law all the time, bills she can't pay, boobs she can tuck under her belt and ankles the size of watermelons. I suspect she loves Jesus and Fox News and NO ONE loves her back. Fie on her, a pox even! If you ever need a Fort Baptist beard....sign me up! I'd be plumb happy to be seen in your company. Piss on ya, Katie!
Youd be so happy Brantley if you lived in lets say, Boston, away from all these Arkansas southerners. But you, Brantley, are stuck here because no one would pay you but us stupid red neck Confederate Flag waving....goood.....Arkansans, We tolerate you Brantley.
Gosh, I love America.
Fly that Confederate battle flag from the rooftops -- it's your right.
I know that it doesn't necessarily mean you hate me, or you want to send me and my kids "back" to an Africa our ancestors haven't seen in 200 years.
But you and I both know that the symbol is embraced by those who *do* hate me.
Not all who honor the the Stars and Bars hate blacks. But virtually all who hate blacks (in this country, especially but not exclusively in the South) honor the Stars and Bars.
And so I prefer not to prejudge your intentions. At the same time, I am happy to know all that I can about your intentions. I am happy to receive every tidbit of information that, combined with other tidbits, lets me know what you want for me and mine.
Gosh, this is a great country.
It's hard to say, Nanc.
Katie was the one who actually came on to me in 11th grade (sure, I knew my orientation at that point but I wasn't prepared to ever act on it because I was taught in church it was "evil''). Katie was the type that DBI would've loved...the cheerleader, Homecoming Queen runner-up (no, she didn't win and I was devastated) and she had big gazongas for her petite frame.
(I'm not a big-boob girl. In fact, I think they get in the way. WBW and I are well-proportioned and we're good with that. Anything more than a handful simply gets in the way:).
Katie definitely loved sex with women, or woman - ME (she was a virgin in the "traditional sense'' until she met her would-be husband. I assume they had sex before they were married. Heck, I hope they had sex before they were married).
My theory is that Katie is mad at the world and she doesn't feel free enough to be herself. I interpreted our disastrous conversation as her being mad at me that I wasn't living her life... that I wasn't living a lie. She had kept tabs on me, according to our mutual friend.
Do I believe Katie is an L? Hell, yes! That girl...dang, I could tell stories but I know the Hussman/Stephens Charter School students may be reading and it wouldn't be appropriate (sorry, DBI:)
Katie lives in Alabama and is Catholic. Hillcrest is like the gay mecca of the world compared to Alabama in terms of gay progress and acceptance. Too, Katie was never much of a "thinker.'' She was always a follower.
I have fond memories of Katie but they don't involve any deep thinking. I haven't seen Katie in 22 years and am curious about what she looks like now. I won't lie about that.
In the grand scheme, Katie was a simpleton in mind and spirit. I'm thankful I met my soul mate at age 39.
stj,
Katie will have to come to grips with herself one day. Perhaps she will conclude that her sexuality was "evil," and thank The Lord that she subdued it. Or not.
In either case, it will have nothing to do with you. And I know you know that.
Did you ever see "The Remains of the Day?"
I've never met you, but I'm joyful for what you have with your WBW. I want for you what I want for myself -- love, peace, tranquility. It's my Christian duty. And truth be told... I envy what you've found. And hope (with a certain amount of skepticism), that I will find the heterosexual version of my own WBW.
Katie is a blip on the radar of who you are. Nothing more. (I know you know that; just thought it would be good to say it).
What kind of symbol of America is Jeep considering it is owned by the American and Canadian governments. the UAW and Fiat. How about asking the 700 + dealers that were closed by Chrysler, some of them Jeep dealers, what they think about this symbol of America?
Remember the new workers now being hired to make Jeeps get a lot less pay because of the deal worked out by the UAW. Asked the people and businesses that got noting when the government arranged for the takeover of Chrysler.
What happens when union contracts come up for renewal, since the UAW owns two-thirds of the company, will the company pay up?
Did the President talk to any of the oil workers/ oil service workers unemployed because of him on his trip to Florida yesterday? If he is serious about the Gulf Coast recovering he will see they get back to work. Otherwise his one day trip to Florida was nothing but BS.
>>We tolerate you Brantley.<<
Tell us NOVEMBER, where else you be posting if the editor/investor of AT/blog, namely Max Brantley, didn't "tolerate" you?
You take the 'Asshat of the Week' award. He's just as Southern and Arkie as anyone who comes to these pages. Failure to honor the CSA battle flag is not a point of dishonor to thousands of Arkies.
>>Did the President talk to any of the oil workers/ oil service workers unemployed because of him on his trip to Florida yesterday?<<
The POTUS spilled those millions of gallons of oil in the ocean? POTUS was the one responsible for drilling at 5,000 feet without adequate safety precautions? BHO plowed ahead with deepwater drilling without knowing the pressure containment levels needed and without any experience drilling that deep with no emergency plan to stop a leak at those depths?
Tell you what 'hell', BHO has become one dexterous dude in 18 months.
Wait, maybe BHO was the one who 6 years earlier set the production permit standards they were following up until a few months ago, somehow he was secretly in on a plan hatched by Darth Cheney.
But wait. All the people out of work. Shame on BHO! In 18 months he has only been able to cut Bush's monthly job loss by 70%! Shame on him indeed. He has not restored a bubble economy to it's once false glory days of "Ownership Society 2004."
He has not announced a new plan to waive down payment requirements for low-income, first time, home buyers?
Say it ain't so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqQx7sjoS8…
OK, it's one of those weird moments in life.
I had a dream last night that a girl, who I had a crush on in the eighth grade, was working for me. In the dream, she said "I think we were meant to be together."
I awoke this morning and was a little disturbed since I hadn't seen her since 1985 on a plane from LR to Dallas with her husband.
I Googled her and found that her husband died three weeks ago in in North Carolina.
it's weird.
Well..what the hell, using your reasoning, Truman shouldn't have dropped those 2 atomic bombs on Japan because it put so many Japanese out of work, huh. And Osama did us a favor by opening up so many new construction jobs in New York City and DC.
I hate it when anyone loses their job and it wasn't the lowly oil workers who clipped every corner and caused the disaster in the Gulf. I'm not in favor of destroying the Gulf of Mexico so off shore drillers will keep their jobs.
All our oily water problems are over aren't they? Those 5 million barrels of oil loose in the Gulf just disappeared like when Jesus touched the leper....you bet. Everythings back to normal....don't worry about that black shit in yer shrimp and get use to the new smell of fish. It's just great now...why not apologize to BP?
And while I'm ranting, why don't you suck on this:
Dec 22, 2008 ... President Bush's Bailout Plan for Auto Companies - Summary of President Bush's Bailout Plan for Auto Companies......
You're bitching about the wrong President, dude. Bush bailed out the banks and the auto companies. Dial up Crawford, Texas and bitch at the right man if you're so damn upset about it. And turn off Fox News while you're at it. They lie to you 24 hours a day.
I would love to own an authentic Rebel flag! Civil War relics are hard to come by and flags of either side are the holy grail. I could have 10 Confederate flags and it wouldn't mean I had any dislike or even disrespect for black people. I love history, I love antiques! I am not a hater and the very very very last thing I'd do is put my nearly 150 year old Stars and Bars flag on my pickup truck.
It's real easy to spot the haters today. Historians don't put Rebel decals on their cars or fly Confederate flags from their front porch. They don't have sloped foreheads and that pitbull dog look on their faces. They keep the sleeves on their shirts and damn few have tobacco juice dripping out of the corner of their mouth. Redneck racists dumb enough to put their racism on display are the easy ones to spot. It's the guys and gals that look just like the rest of us who scare me.
I love Southern history, but that doesn't mean I think the South was right about slavery. I like to think I would have been on the right side...but who knows...I didn't live back in those days. After all, I used to think it was OK for blacks to have different water fountains and bathrooms...but I was an ignorant little kid and I grew up and got smarter and realized the wrongness of some of my Southern childhood.
The very best thing those of us on the blog can do is to make sure to raise our children not to be haters. We successfully broke the chain at our house and really if you think about it....that's no small thing. We've made the world a better place and our children and grandchildren will carry on the traditions we've set. Nope....not a small thing. I think I'll go pat myself on the back while I see if there's any ice cream in the freezer.
DBI
Where the hell did you come up with the Truman/atomic bomb analogy? Truman dropped the bomb because he didn't give a crap about Japanese civilians. Just like FDR locking up all the Japanese-Americans during the war. You talk about racist, how about these two. They should go to the top of the list.
As for Bush's bailout maybe you should refresh yourself. He was only putting in $17.4 billion and this could be recalled within a few months. This was far from the from the government takeover under Obama.
But most of all you need to stick to the content of what you read. No where in my post about Jeep did I blame Obama. So maybe you should just suck on it.
By the way under Obama GM has purchased a sub-prime lending company so it can provide loans to people with not so good credit. Is this really a good idea? I don't think so.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY DBI!
we miss you when you arent around much but we understand.
UncommonSense -- Dear God, from the top of the page to the bottom i forget posters' names -- The man who had the dream about his junior high girlfriend ---- are you married? Even if you are I think a sympathy card with a short personal note would mean a lot to her. Signed by you and your wife, of course. I truly believe life doesnt send us these messages for no reason.
my son called me but i dont know if it was last night or this a.m. while i was in the shower. he left a long message but since I can't hear...... I think he said something about lottery scholarships. Will get my neighbor to listen for me. Rats. I wish he'd join us old fogies here sometime, he can flat argue the bark off a tree, but nicely, of course.
He tends to have different viewpoints since he is so young. and dbi, as far as racism, the only kids in either of my boys' school-class groups were the ones who learned it at home..... I had to explain it to son #2, what racism even was. we have made some great strides in our generation, but I hope there are enough colorblind people like my sons & your daughters in the next generation to go even further.
Lord help the idiot who ever tries to get that kid to join a white supremacy group. he will promptly explain to the fool making a case for white supremacy that he -- the dude wearing the confederate flag shirt and tattoo -- personally is no shining example.
OFF-TOPIC - The Atomic Bomb was originally engineered for the Germans, but when Germany surrendered before it could be used on them, another use became envisioned with the Japanese. The justification was the horrendous loses expected by land invasion but at the same time it was calculated that by demonstrating the massive destructive force to the Russians that we would somehow obtain and maintain the upper hand with the Russians.
The targets selected were not hardened Military targets and the actual damage inflicted at Nagasaki was minimal primarily due tot he terrain of the area despite the fact that the Plutonium bomb was much more powerful than the Little Boy bomb was.
So much for a well thought out plan.
Thanks for the birthday wishes, I never dreamed I'd be this old. For years I planned on dying in that far off year 2000 when I'd be 45 and have long white hair and whiskers.
Truman dropped the bomb in hopes of saving American lives and Japanese lives and ending the damn war. Historians have estimated since that the dropping of the 2 bombs saved the lives of 1 million US soldiers who would have died invading a country with no intention of ever surrendering. Japan was like Swiss cheese, underground bunkers and warehouses so large whole trains and airplanes were housed in them.
It's also estimated that the lives of 3 million Japanese civilians were saved by avoiding an invasion of US troops loaded for bear. Just setting the facts straight for the young folks, ya know.
I don't judge people who, if alive today would be 126 years old (Truman) and 128 years old (FDR). And if you studied history a little you'd see a direct connection between America's behavior towards Japanese-Americans at the start of WWII and our current overreaction to Muslims in this country today.
We like to pretend we're so smart...so fair....so freedom loving until the shit hits the fan and then we overreact like a Mofo. So turnabout's fair play, suck my mosque!
The Republican National Committee owns the trademark for the elephant logo, so it has the right to send a cease-and-desist order to the Jeep owner, demanding the removal of the logo from the Jeep. If the owner refuses to remove it, a trademark infringement lawsuit would be the appropriate course of action, if the Party of Lincoln cares about protecting its reputation and preventing misuse of its logo.
what-the-hell (wth),
Your grasp and understanding of War II history is on a par with your 'commenting' mates.
". . . Casualty estimates were based on the experience of the preceding campaigns, drawing different lessons:
* In a study done by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in April, the figures of 7.45 casualties/1,000 man-days and 1.78 fatalities/1,000 man-days were developed. This implied that a 90-day Olympic campaign would cost 456,000 casualties, including 109,000 dead or missing. If Coronet took another 90 days, the combined cost would be 1,200,000 casualties, with 267,000 fatalities.
* A study done by Adm. Nimitz's staff in May estimated 49,000 U.S casualties in the first 30 days, including 5,000 at sea.[41] A study done by General MacArthur's staff in June estimated 23,000 U.S. casualties in the first 30 days and 125,000 after 120 days. When these figures were questioned by General Marshall, MacArthur submitted a revised estimate of 105,000, in part by deducting wounded men able to return to duty.
* In a conference with President Truman on June 18, Marshall, taking the Battle of Luzon as the best model for Olympic, thought the Americans would suffer 31,000 casualties in the first 30 days (and ultimately 20% of Japanese casualties, which implied a total of 70,000 casualties). Adm. Leahy, more impressed by the Battle of Okinawa, thought the American forces would suffer a 35% casualty rate (implying an ultimate toll of 268,000). Admiral King thought that casualties in the first 30 days would fall between Luzon and Okinawa, i.e., between 31,000 and 41,000.
Of these estimates, only Nimitz's included losses of the forces at sea, though kamikazes had inflicted 1.78 fatalities per kamikaze pilot in the Battle of Okinawa, and troop transports off Kyūshū would have been much more exposed.
* A study done for Secretary of War Henry Stimson's staff by William Shockley estimated that conquering Japan would cost 1.7 to 4 million American casualties, including 400,000 to 800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese fatalities. The key assumption was large-scale participation by civilians in the defense of Japan. . . ."
Dead - Hiroshima 66,000; Nagasaki 39,000; Injured - Hiroshima 69,000; Nagasaki 25,000. 135,ooo fatalites versus 4-8 hundred thousand allied and multi-millions of Japanese fatalities in an invasion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dow…
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/med_…
I don't know what Harry Truman's motives were, nor do you. I suspect from what had been happening for four years, he was more concerned about allied than Japanese casualties, but he undoubted saved more Japanese than allies with his decision.
There actually was a movement by the scientists at the Los Alamos and Chicago groups of the Manhatten Project to demonstrate the "gadget" on an uninhabited locale to get the Japanese to surrender, but General Groves and Robert Oppenheimer prevented the movement from gainng traction in the Executive branch. From biographies and historical sources, Truman was very concerned with casualties in an invasion.
P.S. Sorry for the delay in posting this and duping part od DBI's, but my software's protections is fighting the ARTimes blog software. (Firefox NoScript)
if you studied history a little you'd see a direct connection between America's behavior towards Japanese-Americans at the start of WWII and our current overreaction to Muslims in this country today. - DBI
No argument here.
Hey Birthday Boy....Many happy returns!
Hope you are staying cool over in Ft. Baptist...it is too friggin HOT!!
dottholiday,
You need to read about the reasons for the bombs, not what the Truman propaganda experts put out. General Dwight Eisenhower in June 1945 said the following:" "that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary."
Japan was ready to surrender but wanted to retain its Emperor and the U.S. refused. The U.S. dropped the first bomb, Russia entered the war, the U.S. dropped the second bomb and Japan surrendered. The U.S. accepted the surrender and allowed Japan to keep its Emperor. Nothing gained except to keep the Russians from laying a claim to Japan. Truman even scammed the Russians from entering the war until after the first bomb was dropped.
From the University of Colorado at Bolder : http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/20…
"The Atomic Bomb was originally engineered for the Germans, but when Germany surrendered before it could be used on them.."
Never heard that. The war against Germany had turned by 1943, due to Russian efforts ("The Russians tore the guts out of the German Army"--Churchill) but because of Einstein's info we knew the Germans had been working on the development of a nuclear device. But Hitler was desperate for immediate "new" weapons and German scientists were pulled off the nuclear project to be used on other top secret immediate weapons like the V-1 and the V-2.
The American military told FDR (and later Truman) in 1945 that Japan would not be defeated until 1947 or 1948. We dreaded the prospects of that invasion because the estimate was that the US would suffer one million casualties and Japanese casualties would be even more.
Because of those estimates, FDR went to Yalta with the intent of getting the USSR into the war with Japan so the Russian Army would shoulder many of those casualties in such an invasion. He got the promise from Stalin that within 90 days after the defeat of Germany, the USSR would enter against Japan.
Germany surrendered May 8th, Hiroshima Aug. 6, USSR entered the war against Japan August 8 (90 days after the surrender of Germany), Nagasaki August 9, Japan offered to surrender August 10, VE Day Sept 2.
The US tied the dropping of the bombs to Pearl Harbor. The Japs never did and don't draw the connection.
"Manhatten Project to demonstrate the "gadget" on an uninhabited locale to get the Japanese to surrender.."
Yes, but American military was afraid the Japanese might put POWs/civilians on those locations, etc. The Japanese didn't surrender after the first one. It took two.
Some argue we did not have to invade Japan but conduct a blockade, continue bombing and attrition would cause their surrender. The other side pointed out that is contrary to American strategy in fighting in the Pacific, that quick and heavy invasions cost fewer lives in the long run. That in itself pushed for the dropping of the bombs.
New book out by historian Terry Charman argues the Soviet war against Japan was a bigger factor in the surrender than the two bombs, since the Soviets attack in Manchuria that was launched August 9 lasted two weeks, killing 84,000 Japanese troops at a cost of 12,000 Soviet troops. Historians will continue to debate this, of course.
But the fact is Hirohito and other Jap leaders bear eventual responsibility, for the Allies knew the Japanese leaders intended to draft almost every man and woman in Japan to fight to the death in trying to repulse the invading Allies, including the Russian forces. They would not be in uniform so in affect all Japanese would have to be considered enemy.
dot,
Checked you figures on the number of deaths and from wikipedia: "Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects killed 90,000–166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000–80,000 in Nagasaki." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombin…
"Japan was ready to surrender but wanted to retain its Emperor and the U.S. refused. The U.S. dropped the first bomb, Russia entered the war, the U.S. dropped the second bomb and Japan surrendered. The U.S. accepted the surrender and allowed Japan to keep its Emperor. Nothing gained except to keep the Russians from laying a claim to Japan."--Whatthehell
The Japanese wanted to keep their emperor in full power as if nothing had happened. The US refused. After Nagasaki, the Japanese again approached the Americans and were told it was acceptable if the Japs understood the emperor would have no power. Now the Japanese were willing to accept that "condition" in an unconditional surrender.
"And if you studied history a little you'd see a direct connection between America's behavior towards Japanese-Americans at the start of WWII and our current overreaction to Muslims in this country today."
I'm unaware of Japanese religionists establishing religious training centers in the West across Europe and America then fighting viciously for their "right" to practice their equivalent of sharia law within their communities, prior to WWII.
Unaware of Japanese religions or imams teaching cradle to grave to conquer, convert or kill all infidels and non-believers. Gold star for Jews and Christians.
Direct connection? I don't get it.
Did we overreact with Japanese-Americans at the start of the war? Absolutely.
Is America rounding up or threatening to round up Muslims for internment camps (as with our Japanese then)?
No.
Our reactions to the very real threats from Pearl Harbor and the WTC are as different as the nature of the attacks themselves.
The only thing in common is our self-preservation.
Good book to catch, Japan's Longest Day. Irony of it all is that the two bombs saved countless lives, including Japanese. Between the bombs, ultra-nationalists in the Japanese army tried a coup to take over the Govt, and ensure the progress of their "shattered gem" strategy, which in essence was a program of self-genocide. Okinawa showed the American command how willing the Japanese military was to murder their own civilians rather than allow them to surrender to American forces.
". . . I WILL ARGUE that, in fact, as one of the pro arguments for dropping the bomb states, 'the bomb's use impressed the Soviet Union and halted the war quickly enough that the USSR did not demand joint occupation of Japan.' . . ." Chris H. Lewis, Ph.D
Note my emphasis above, wth.
Dr. Lewis is promoting a theory. In his classnotes, he is focusing on promoting that theory to the exclusion of other facts. For example:
1) 'Hap' Arnold like Curtis LeMay and all AAF General believed that strategic bombing could end the war without invasion. They also believed, earlier, that high altitude strategic bombing would work, but based on results LeMay had them change to attacks with fire bombing from low altitude, because the high altitude B-29 attacks were not achieving the result expected.
2) ". . . In fact, the highest military casualty figures for an American invasion of Japan are 46,000. But this is really beside the point. There is no real evidence that American leaders were seriously preparing an invasion of Japan. . . ." Chris H. Lewis, Ph.D. Dr. Lewis ignores estimates by Secretary of War Stinson, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Marshall and Admiral Leahy and reduces Nimitz's first thirty days estimates, because they did not advance his theory.
3) Dr. Lewis bases a lot of his conjecture on Secretary Byrnes recollections, however, Byrnes evaluation of the effect on the Russian then and later in 1947 and 1960 was based upon the Soviets (Stalin) being unaware of the atomic bomb, when Zhukov stated in Dr. Lewis' class notes that Stalin and Molotov knew about the bomb and had Kurchakov speed up their program when Truman told Stalin about the American weapon. http://www.dannen.com/decision/potsdam.htm…
4) Dr. Lewis theory is that President Truman was dissembling in his own personal diary. I can follow Dr. Lewis' theory, but I can't accept that Truman actually lied to himself in own his personal diary on July 25, 1945. Dr. Lewis' statement ". . . why President Truman did not tell the American people the truth and instead fabricated a story about saving American lives and the bomb being necessary to force Japan to surrender . . ." is a theory and not truly supported by facts of President Truman's diary entry on the day the bombing order was issued.
Many historians dispute Dr. Lewis' theory of Truman's motives. His own course syllabus points out that the course is ". . . to critically analyze, evaluate, and judge COMPETING PERSPECTIVEs on American history, culture, and society . . ." (emphasis mine) and invite student to disagree, but to present the facts that lead to their differing opinion.
Yes, wth, the numbers of Hiroshima and Nagasaki casualties from wikipedia are different, but still support the concept that the decision on July 25, 1945 to drop the bomb did save the lives of hundreds of thousands if not millions of people. I suspect that other research might dispute some of the Downfall, Olympic and Coronet casualty estimates on Wikipedia also,
Thanks, for the column, this morning, Pat! You're correct. The thread did overlook in the posts and discussions a lot of factors that were operative in Truman's decision.
Also only three months and two weeks after FDR died, Truman was still being inundated with grasping what FDR had kept to himself, as president. Plus, have to indulge in political conversations with uneasy allies and wily figures Churchill, Anthony Eden, Stalin, Molotov about ending the current massive conflict and avoiding a War III in the aftermath.
Just a bit overwhelming . . .
Author Archives
-
Texas judge who whipped daughter suspended
Here's some Thanksgiving-worthy news: The Texas Supreme Court has suspended the Aransas County family court judge, Willliam Adams, made infamous on YouTube for whipping the daylights out of his daughter with a belt and adding a profane tirade for good measure.
- Nov 23, 2011
-
Tuesday topics
Over to you. Close-outs: * ELIJAH MEETS CANDIDATE: 'Ms. Bachmann: My mommy is gay and she doesn't need any fixing.'
- Dec 6, 2011
- More »
Event Calendar
-
Re: No beer today at Porter's Jazz Cafe
Porter's is -- or at least was -- open 7 days a week. Sales figures…
- on February 8, 2012
-
Re: No beer today at Porter's Jazz Cafe
Shut 'em down!
- on February 8, 2012
-
Re: The long march is on; today's flavor — Santorum
>>diddling little boys is involved.
How I wish they would have stayed with goat…- on February 8, 2012
Top Commenters
Blogroll
Site Index
News
Cover Story / Arkansas Reporter / The Week That Was / Smart Talk / The Insider / The Observer / Editorial / Max Brantley / Ernest Dumas / Gene Lyons / Bob Lancaster / Words / Guest Writer / Letters
Entertainment
A&E Feature / To-Do List / In Brief / Movie Reviews / Music Reviews / Theater Reviews / A&E News / Art Notes / Graham Gordy / Books / Media / Dining Reviews / Dining Guide / What's Cookin' / Calendar / The Televisionist / Movie Listings / Gallery Listings
This Week's Cover
Quick Links
Special Publications
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
