Monday, August 16, 2010
Religion Touchdown GOP UPDATE
Posted by Max Brantley on Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 10:44 AM
The Republicans clearly think they've hit paydirt thanks to President Obama's support for freedom of religion (even if he did amend his ringing 1st Amendment statement to say it should not be read as an endorsement of the wisdom of a Muslim group's decision to build a community center a few blocks from Ground Zero.)
This article, with further reports on fired-up Republicans, has a small silver lining. Islamophobia seems likely to override homophobia this election cycle.
I also note a comment by Josh Marshall:
The fact that some of our most searing and for many of us some of our first experiences with Islam came in the form of a catastrophic terrorist attack by Islamic radicals creates a situation ripe for exploitation. And here we have it. We're in a midst of a spasm of nativist panic and raw and raucous appeals to race and religious hatred. What effects this will have on the November election strikes me as not particularly relevant. What's important is compiling some record of what's afoot, some catalog for understanding in the future who was responsible and who was so willing to disgrace their country and their principles for cheap advantage.
Michael Kinsley boils it down further:
Is there any reason to oppose the mosque that isn't bigoted, or demagogic, or unconstitutional?
As for how others might feel:
Some people say that tact or respect for the survivors of victims of 9/11 should dissuade these Muslims from building their center on this particular spot. This argument avoids both the constitutional question and the issue of bigotry. It says your concern is protecting the feelings of people whose feelings deserve protection, whatever those feelings might be—even if those feelings, in some other person or some other situation, might seem bigoted.In First Amendment jurisprudence, there is a concept known as the "heckler's veto." Is it OK for the government to silence a speaker whose speech so offends some listeners that they may turn violent? The answer is generally "no." Except in true emergencies, the government's duty is to protect the speaker, not to silence him. The parallel is not exact, of course—no 9/11 families (that I know of) have threatened violence—but the principle is similar: opponents of someone's First Amendment rights should not get a veto over their exercise.
UPDATE: Here's a map and photo slideshow to give you a feel for this "hallowed ground" that has suddenly become bigger than the Ten Commandments, Pledge of Allegiance, Flag Burning and Gays in Military.
Comments (19)
Showing 1-19 of 19
"What's important is compiling some record of what's afoot, some catalog for understanding in the future who was responsible and who was so willing to disgrace their country and their principles for cheap advantage."
Duh. Like thats been a question for the last 30 years.
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Freedom of religion only applies to Christians. I think the GOP alternative ought to be a forced baptism station where Tea Party Christians can drag non-Christians in and forcibly convert them.
Either that, or a giant statue of G.W. Bush for being responsible for the entire thing. I think America tends to forget that had the 9/11 bombings not happened, there would have been a need to create something like them in order for the GOP to hold the office.
Somehow I just don't see this as a huge advantage for the GOP in November. The people who oppose Obama on this are the same people who believe he's the Kenyan Anti-Christ anyway.
I've had it with them damn Presbyterians! I'm declaring a fatwa on everyone of them! I'm sick of their fat Buicks clogging my street. I don't like the perfume they're wearing and they keep knocking down perfectly good houses in my neighborhood to build Gyms for Jesus.
Those old Presbyterians are sucking up our resources! Die already! A working man can't get in the door to get a good meal at 4 pm.....if you all eat just a little bit earlier you can call it lunch. All that quiet, dignified, reasonableness is just a front to hide the killer lurking in their souls, Presbyterians don't fool me, not one little bit. I know whose killing America and you people have got to go!
I will cast my next vote for any Presidential candidate willing to stand up to the Presbyterians! I want a President that will pick out one religious group and hammer then into goo. Now....some will say kicking Presbies around will just make them meaner and get a lot of innocent people killed. Shut up!
Americans must have at least 12 enemies at all times in order to be happy! If you aren't hating on someone right now you're wasting half your brain...and missing a whole lot of fun.
I pick Presbyterians to hate! Who will join me? One of them flew their Buick into my grandfather's International pickup and he was off work for a week! Let's get em! Jesus wants you to hate Presbyterians too!
Man I miss the naive little world I grew up in back in the 60's.
Truth, justice and the American way!
Our cartoons and toy action figures were always noble and didn't break the high standards expected of US slodiers.
Other armies used prisoners of war to mix in with trains of ammo as a shield but Americans didn't because Americans were better than that!
Ohter armies mixed in with the local women and children as a shield but Americans were better than that.
Other armies tortured and murdered captive soldiers but Americans were better than that.
Remember waves of Iraq soldiers surrendering in the first gulf war because they knew they would be treated humanely? Now they would fight to the death because the US Army is known to torture and kill captives!
Now we have a large lump of the population that has decided that freedom of religion is for christian religion only.
Timothy McVeigh reportedly grew up attending the Roman Catholic church but NO ONE suggested that there was some distance around the Murrah Building which Catholics could not build in as some sort of "respect".
Is there freedomn of religion or is there not? Is there some perimeter around ground Zero where no religious buildings can be built? Or is that only a certain brand of religion? We all know the answer to my question.
Is government too big and controlling and "cramming things down our throat"? Or do we want government to get into the business of political parties determining local zoning laws?
You either want more goverment control or you want less, make up your freaking mind you scared wussy conservative republicans.
We saw how great the republican party was at health care when they all had an emergency session of Congress to interject itself into the Terry Shiavo medical treatment decisions.
Do you want a nanny state or do you want to be be mature adults and understand that free Americans are free to build legal buildings where they want to?
Make up your mind, are we free or are we not!
A constitution that allows Fred Phelps to picket funerals of America's war dead should certainly allow a house of worship in near ground zero.
Actmax, you forgot the smiley emoticon on our post.
If the Republicans are so upset about anything within x miles of ground zero, why didn't they buy the damn buildings. There rich buddies have all that money from Bush's tax cuts-oh, that's invested overseas in hidden Swiss accounts. And of course, the topless joint nearer ground zero is acceptable because some christian probably owns it. What a non-issue! The Republicans seem to find a lot of the Constitution to violate for a group that abhors everyone else's actions as a "violation".
Christian author Anne Rice.
“For those who care, and I understand if you don’t: Today I quit being a Christian. I’m out. I remain committed to Christ as always but not to being ‘Christian’ or to being part of Christianity. It’s simply impossible for me to ‘belong’ to this quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious, and deservedly infamous group. For ten years, I’ve tried. I’ve failed. I’m an outsider. My conscience will allow nothing else.”
“In the name of Christ, I refuse to be anti-gay. I refuse to be anti-feminist. I refuse to be anti-artificial birth control. I refuse to be anti-Democrat. I refuse to be anti-secular humanism. I refuse to be anti-science. I refuse to be anti-life.”
Republicans are a strange mix of superiority and anxiety. They are just too good and deserving to be bothered.
Well Anne's a bit nuts, but I applaud her decision. I think it is one we have made without even thinking about it in our house.
9/11 Ground Zero Mosque that is not being started on 9/11 and is not at Ground Zero and not even all a Mosque, but a community Center too. You know I think this might be one of those times when Americans need to "Man Up" and stop worrying about peoples feelings 'cause if we don't then the terrorist actually do win.
If the builders (or NYC) give into the bigotry (cause no matter what people say it is about being a bigot unless you also have a problem with the titty bar that is closer to GZ or the Catholic Church or the fucking mall that will be built right in the ground of ground zero...in the dirt where bits of the dead still are...now THAT'S offensive) then we say it is OK to let folks act on their fear and anger. We say it is OK to be totally un-American because someone hurt us. I'm sure Bin Laden is loving this shit.
Unfortunately after stepping up and doing the right thing, our current President, his advisors, or democratic party leaders had an attack of "Ooh! The Republicans and Conservatives are angry! We need to clarify!"
Once again the current administrations is showing a lack of intestinal fortitude/backbone that is causing their base support to waiver and the general public to wonder about the President's judgment and commitment. That's not good as we proceed to midterm elections.
Obama has handled this matter appropriately.
If the plan was to build a mosque directly on WTC site, that would be insensitive and unacceptable. A mosque two blocks way from Ground Zero is more than sufficient as a respectful distance.
Breaking: Halal food carts cited ON Ground Zero!
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line…
“Hallowed Ground”
http://daryllang.com/blog/4421
and like I said, the call that the ground is so sacred and Hallowed is just bullshit when you consider that an undergound mall is being built in what is essentially a graveyard.
Preserve, protect and defend. Mr. Obama knows his oath and has carried it out.
The whacko right has been sniping at the very piece of paper they claim as "theirs" long enough.
It's time someone from the remaining sane politicians out there to stand up and scream it loud, that anyone who opposes a house of worship is against the consitution of the United States. And I'm a god-damn atheist!
If the far right wants to continue to try and change the first and fourteenth amendments, let them continue to try. But until you have gotten the 37 states and Congress to change it, IT IS THE DUTY OF EVERY POLITICIAN, EVERY CITIZEN, TO PRESERVE, PROTECT AND DEFEND.
If you're an atheist, why do you use the term G%$ - Da%$? If you don't believe in God, why do you expect God to damn something? Now this just has me confused.
And this is a 13-story building, with offices, etc. It is a cultural center not just a place to pray. I repeat again-if the Republicans were so concerned why didn't they put their money where their mouths are and buy every available building in the area (1 mile, 2 miles, 15 miles?). Oh, that's right. I said THEIR money and when they can get it now or block how it be used without spending the money, they win twice. I guarantee if this is blocked, someone is going to have to come up with a lot of money to compensate them for all the garbage they have been given as well as the building owner who now has a buyer, even if the plan is to tear it down (a NYC tradition).
An underground mall at the site?!?!?!? That IS sick.
I bet the gift shop will be full of knick knacks that really pay homage and honor to the victims. At an inflated price, of course.
Too bad capitalism is not a religion. Then maybe
folks would be offended about the money being made off a tragedy.
Proving once again how dumb this Demo in the White House truly is.
If there was one thing that should have been left up to NY state and NYC this was it.
Proving once again how dumb this Demo in the White House truly is.
If there was one thing that should have been left up to NY state and NYC this was it.
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President George Bush has repeated his belief all religions, "whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God" – an assertion that caused outrage among evangelical leaders when he said it in November 2003.
As the president and Nakouzi walked from the Oval Office to the Map Room in the White House residence, Nazouki asked, "But I want to tell you – and I hope this doesn't bother you at all – that in the Islamic world they think that President Bush is an enemy of Islam – that he wants to destroy their religion, what they believe in. Is that in any way true, Mr. President?"
"No, it's not," said Bush. "I've heard that, and it just shows [sic] to show a couple of things: One, that the radicals have done a good job of propagandizing. In other words, they've spread the word that this really isn't peaceful people versus radical people or terrorists, this is really about the America not liking Islam.
"Well, first of all, I believe in an Almighty God, and I believe that all the world, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God. That's what I believe. I believe that Islam is a great religion that preaches peace.
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=43906
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