Same BS!

Whenever anyone wants to discriminate they have to bring in their crutch -- jesus.

Obviously they are fealing the heat so lets pour it on.......

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i have spread that website and zine far and wide. you cant pray the gay away and you cant ignore a population that isnt gonna take the crap and discrimination anymore.

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I don't see the problem here. Seriously. It states in the bible that homosexuality is wrong (not getting into a philosophy battle here, just stating what it says). If that is what they believe, and that is their policy, leave them alone. If you are gay, go somewhere else. Why would you want to go somewhere that you are not welcome.

As a private university they have the right to block whatever websites they want. I am sure that isn't the only website blocked.

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"i have spread that website and zine far and wide. you cant pray the gay away and you cant ignore a population that isnt gonna take the crap and discrimination anymore."

Then don't go to Harding, BYU, or any other PRIVATE university that is founded on Christian principles. Good lord people.

I don't have any problem with gay people, their relationships, what they do, etc, but why keep beating a dead horse. Fundamentalist Christians will never accept gay people. Why you ask? It goes against their core values. You won't change this, ever. So why waste the energy or the time?

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Do Harding or any of the others listed take federal or state money in the form of grants, etc.? For that matter do any of their students have federally subsidized loans? It seems the same argument used by the "Christians" about not wanting their tax dollars to subsidize abortions could be used here.

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Harding University and Westboro Church are no different in my humble opinion. Both think gays are despicable and will use their interpretation of the Bible to hurt gays.

I love how many Christians cherry pick which scripture they will follow and which ones they will not.

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So the site and zine are advocating SEXUAL ACTIVITY? I didn't realize that.

If those with heterosexual orientations can write about their futures (in any field) as loving and responsible people, without advocating sexual activity, why not those with homosexual orientations?

Sounds like Harding is condemning people for what they ARE rather than what they DO. For BEING instead of BEHAVIOR.

Why can't gay and lesbian Christians at Harding write about their struggles the same as heterosexual Christians at Harding?

Or is Harding expelling students simply for BEING gay?

I'm sure that's their prerogative, if that's in the handbook. But why bear false witness about it?

"Students who are gay will not be admitted. Should they grow to realize they are gay while enrolled, they will be expelled and no fees will be refunded."

What could be simpler or more honest?

Oh . . . .

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[they] "use their interpretation of the Bible to hurt gays"

There is no part of the bible that accepts the lifestyle - or many others for that matter. I agree the way things are handled in most circumstances by those that call themselves christians is in an unloving manner and I long to see that changed.

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"Come to Harding University and learn to be a narrow-minded bigot."

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I will respect Harding University just as soon as they begin to give equal treatment to adulterers. Levticus 20:10. This will include, of course, all divorced folks. Mark 10:11-12.

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I don't agree with the harshness of panic fan's comments, but I do agree that people know what they are getting into when they decide to attend Harding. That being said, I don't believe anyone actually read what this article says. There is quite a wide gap between gay bashers and what was said here. The deal is sexual relationships outside the context of marriage. It's the same reason they would block heterosexual sites dealing with sexuality. It will be a discussion that goes on forever.
Just because you are attracted to someone of either sex, doesn't mean you have to have sex with them.

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I too am "unconvinced," unconvinced.

How, exactly, do you "change" and "handle" ancient religious bigotry condemning people as abominations worthy unto death into something more "loving?"

Harding is perfectly within its rights to treat people as it sees fit (within civil laws, of course) on its own campus.

It's the constant obsession with imposing Christian religious bigotry on all Americans by rewriting civil laws and the Constitution into a theocracy that gives the game away.

If you or anybody defines a central tenet of Christianity as hating gays -- and how else to interpret the demonization of "worthy unto death"? -- then that's what Christianity becomes: a religion followed by hateful hypocrites claiming to act in the name of God's love.

That's sick.

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It will be interesting to see who demonstrates more love, compassion, and understanding in this situation--the Christians or the non-Christians; the gay bashers or the Christian bashers!

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In the new and old testament it clearly says HOMOSEXUALLITY is wrong and yet they try to say "i was born like this and i want to be like this".. NO they were not.. theres no gene that exisist of "Gay". So you take this comment and put it into thaught as you wish... they were influenced, they want your attention. everytime YOU call them names and try to discriminate them your only feeding the fire with more wood!

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Skypilot, I don't believe it is Christian bashing as much as it is hypocrite bashing. Kinda like a speck/mote sort of thing. I say this as a Christian.

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y'all do realize that you can be christian (religious...whatever you want to call it) and identify as LGBTQ, right? And that it isnt a choice between your faith and your sexual identify or gender identity, right? And that there are only 11 admonishments to homosexuals in teh bible but something like 200 to heterosexuals? yes? and that these students were most likely raised in the church, followed their heart to go to harding (which is a great school) and then got to the point where they couldnt hide their sexuality (and they shouldnt have to..), right? i mean, you guys do get this? i agree with oulier on this. its not chrisitan bashing. i am a straight christian lgbtq equality activist. its the hypocritical, bigoted statements. and its sad that this is the stuff that arkansas is known for. the mccances and now harding. lovely. we can do better. we MUST do better. as a state, we owe it to our kids to do better. this bullying, this hate, that extends to the upper reaches of higher education, all the way down to elementary schools...state government, etc., its gotta stop. really. its ok to be gay. its ok to be queer, trans, bi, lesbian. its ok to be chrisitan or atheist or multitheist or even unitarian universalist (disclaimer, i'm a UU :) just be nice to each other. its basic.

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Arkansas Panic, you say, "I don't see the problem here. Seriously. It states in the bible that homosexuality is wrong (not getting into a philosophy battle here, just stating what it says)."

No it doesn't.

The word "homosexuality" wasn't coined until 1869. It did not begin to be used until the latter part of the 19th century.

The Hebrew and Greek writers of the Jewish and Christian scriptures could not have used the term "homosexuality" or 'homosexual" because there is no such word in either language. They had no concept at all of the innate predisposition of some human beings to erotic attraction to members of their own sex to which the word "homosexual" points and for which it was invented. They could not have written about what they had no concept for or even a word to express.

The handful of some six verses from a vast body of biblical literature to which people point as condemnations of "homosexuals" use terms and concepts whose meanings are murky and debated by scripture scholars. It's clear that none of those terms and concepts is equivalent to what we call homosexuality today.

What's puzzling is why any Christian would pick those six verses and build a whole worldview around them, when what's central to the Jewish and Christian scriptures is the call to live lives of love, justice, and mercy. None of which is demonstrated to gay and lesbian human beings by the many Christians slinging selective condemnation of gay folks around, while the many other sins of members of the Christian community that violate canons of love, justice, and mercy go unnoticed.

The bible has six murky verses that Christians cite to condemn "homosexuality." It has hundreds on hundreds of verses telling us not to ignore and oppress the poor and the weak.

Why so much attention on those six verses while so little attention is paid to the hundreds of others about our treatment of the poor and the weak, which are central to the Bible?

And why so much attention on those six murky verses when Jesus himself said nothing at all about this issue.

Not a single word.

Though he said much about feeding the hungry, healing the sick, visiting those in prison, welcoming the stranger, and clothing the naked.

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The Harding University statement says, "The student handbook states that the university holds to the biblical principle that sexual relationships are unacceptable to God outside the context of marriage . . . ."

And so Harding then welcomes, we should conclude, married students, and seeks to support them in their married life.

And since marriage of gay couples is legally valid in a number of U.S. states and an increasing number of countries, including many with large Catholic populations like Spain, I'm assuming that Harding will accept, affirm, and welcome couples who come to the university as legally married gay couples?

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Re "Christian bashing" versus "hypocrite bashing."

I'm not totally opposed to a little hypocrite bashing now and then, unless I happen to be the hypocrite being bashed.

But if you want to engage in hypocrite bashing, then I wish you'd say "hypocrite," and not simply "Christian."

Bash the hypocrites all you want, but please leave the rest of us innocent Christians out of it.

Christians are NOT monolithic. They do not all believe the same thing. They do not all behave the same way. Please do not lump all of us togther and tar us all with the same brush.

Remember that there are Christians who are deeply committed and there are Christians who are rather casual in their commitments and there are Christians who are Christians in name only.

And there are Christians who are straight and Christians who are gay and Christians who are lesbians and Christians who are bisexual and Christians who are transgenderd and Christians who are uncertain or undecided about their sexuality and Chritians who are white and Christians who are black and Christians who are brown and Christians who are rich and Christians who are poor and Christians who are abused and Christians who are abusing and Christians who attempt to live by the Bible as a whole and Christians who are fanatics about a few verses on a few issues and are willing to disregard all the rest, especially if they can legislate their narrow views onto everyone else.

So when you want to bash someone, please be specific about who it is you want to bash, and the issue for which you want to bash him/her. Don't simply bash "Christians," because NOT ALL CHRISTIANS ARE ALIKE!!!

Just as not all bashers are alike!

IMHO

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listen to william. he is obviously a wise wise man.

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"Harding...rooted in biblical principles"

I've never read anything in the Bible about attending college. I read of scribes but not of their training or "advanced education."

Did I miss something? Or, is Harding simply an extension of 'being brought up in the ways of the Lord?'

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
1 Luke 14:26

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As a straight student at HU I don't hate on the gays. Quite frankly, I only know one, and that is only because he flaunts it in plain sight. However, Harding isn't banning students simply for being homosexual and anyone that says that is moronic. Harding is banning students that participate in any sexual activity, that they find out about, period.

Basically, if you know a nark don't be friends with them. A vast majority of the people at Harding are loving and could simply care less what you choose to do in your free time. Then there are the outspoken minority who try to proselytize the "out-of-the-closet-gays" into straight folks, or try to condem them for being what they are.

All that being said, Harding is a great place with great people. People who love you no matter who you are, what you participate in, or etc.. They may not condone your lifestyle, or your extra-curricular activities, but they do love you.

The administration in it's pursuit to create the perfect Christian environment, however, will not tolerate some things that go against it's core values. That does not include simply being homosexual, but participating in homosexual activities (or any sexual, or really any sinful as viewed in the Bible, as I stated earlier.)

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yes, flaunting being gay is so pesky, aint it capt boosh. i mean, i try not to flaunt my straightness but the kids, the husband, the legal marriage, the 1183 federal rights that i have that gay folks dont..its hard to hide. saying that people flaunt being gay is so...tacky. i mean, i know many christians...and they are ok. as long as they dont flaunt it in my face all teh time..i mean, geez!

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"What's puzzling is why any Christian would pick those six verses and build a whole worldview around them, when what's central to the Jewish and Christian scriptures is the call to live lives of love, justice, and mercy."

I agree with you on this, it is ridiculous that this is such a central issue for so many sects of Christians. However, I do think that Christian views on this subject are used as an excuse for bigotry, but are not bigotry in and of themselves. But the main Biblical viewpoint is based on Leviticus, which is talking about sexual actions (not orientation) with members of the same sex, animals, and relatives.

Regardless of any of this, telling anyone they are going to Hell or speaking or thinking ill of anyone because of any action is judgement that would be reserved for God anyway. But if Harding wants to set up a system to protect its students from what it deems immoral websites, then let them! It's not like Harding made a big deal about this website anyway. Who knows how many websites they block. Other people are the ones making a huge deal about it. I mean, Arkansas Times brought it up! Why aren't people mad that you can't look at porn sites at Harding?

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"or really any sinful as viewed in the Bible, as I stated earlier.)"

How does Harding have any students left, Captain?

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@laurap. Okay moron. Let's try and take my comment out of context a little more. I never once said I didn't like him. In fact, if I were to be completely honest, I would consider him a friend.

But no, let's try and make that to "OH MY GUDNESS GAYS ARE BAD. DON'T SHOW IT IF YOU BLOW IT."

Get over yourself.

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@the outlier
How does Harding have any students left, Captain?

We don't feel the need to confess our transgressions to the "almighty" Harding. That or we haven't been told on yet.

It's that simple.

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Since nobody has posted it here yet, I figured it might be handy to see the relevent portion of the HU student handbook:

> Harding University holds to the biblical principle that
> sexual relationships are unacceptable to God
> outside the context of marriage. Sexual immorality in
> any form will result in suspension from the University.
>
> Visiting in the residence of a single member of the opposite
> gender, even though others are present, without permission is
> prohibited. Staying overnight in a motel, hotel or any such arrangement
> with a member of the opposite gender will result in suspension,
> although explicit sexual immorality may not have been observed.
>
> Students are prohibited from possessing or displaying pornographic
> materials of any type. This includes the use of vulgarity, profanity,
> and any offensive language or offensive symbols. Students are not allowed
> to social dance or go to dance clubs, bars, or other inappropriate places
> of entertainment.
>
> ... (a non-relevant section about telephones and computers)
>
> Men and women are discouraged from excessive public displays of affection.

So, I'm not seeing anything specifically related to homosexuals. I assume that a student can give his most special friend a little kiss as they're departing each other. If his most special friend happens to be a boy, I don't see anything in those rules that would preclude a little kiss.

Actually, it looks like they extend even MORE liberties to same-sex special friends. They can visit each other's dorm rooms, whereas they couldn't if they were opposite-sex special friends.

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>>In the new and old testament it clearly says HOMOSEXUALLITY is wrong and yet they try to say "i was born like this and i want to be like this".. NO they were not.. theres no gene that exisist of "Gay". So you take this comment and put it into thaught as you wish... they were influenced, they want your attention. everytime YOU call them names and try to discriminate them your only feeding the fire with more wood!<<---Kyle

You are obviously a product of your upbringing.

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I am a student at Harding University who struggles with same-sex attraction. There is a group of us who meets weekly to discuss our struggles and to strengthen each other to overcome it. Because homosexuality is a sin just like lying or stealing: all separate us from God. And all sin can be overcome.

The problem here is "homosexuals" who do not want to change. The people behind HUQueerPress are not seeking a true relationship with God based on the Bible and its principles if they want to continue in the LGBT lifestyle.

The fact that parents send their kids here is true. But you can't expect to change the foundation of a University to suit the secular beliefs of a small group of students. If they are "adult enough" to make their own decisions at college, I think they should be "adult enough" to choose a college that they agree with.

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To the Harding Students posting on this board:

Most of the people posting here are very left leaning liberals and in fact many of them are atheists. Some of them twist the bible and try to interpret so that it blends in with their values and beliefs. Bless them for they know not what they do.

You will not change their minds and are therefore fighting a losing battle.

To the subject at hand. It really doesn't matter what the issue is regarding Harding U. Harding is a PRIVATE university and can make the university's rules as it sees fit. It can block whatever websites it wants to, can impose rules on whatever behavior it chooses, and can take action how it sees fit. That is the issue at hand. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

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@William D. Lindsey-

Are you honestly saying that the Hebrews & Greeks who wrote scriptures had no idea that same-sex relationships existed? Sure, there was no Internet or cable TV... But if these were smart people, I can't imagine they didn't know that some guys like to have sex with other guys. In fact, I would think that it's statistically possible at least a couple of the writers experimented with gay sex themselves.

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The rather plaintive cries that Harding is within its rights to be bigoted and discriminatory are both true and irrelevant.

Customers have the right to complain, regardless of whether or not they knew about the policy going in or not. Pointing out hypocrisy (do they forbid shellfish and divorcée's as well?), and demanding a more ethical policy is rooted in freedom of speech. Those that try to shut people up because "it's a private university" forget what it means to be private: your customers are allowed to get upset about bad policies and highlight your inadequacies. Lose too many customers, and you'll go out of business.

Seriously, stone-age ethics in 2011? WTF?

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I see that the flat earth readings which proclaim that the Christian holy scriptures - incidentally Reverend Peter Gomes at Harvard died this week, and addressed such reading strategies in his famous book - are rather alive and well at Harding U. As an undergrad at Oral Robert U. for three years, I think I know a bit about how these views function?

The most telling basic point is probably that nobody writing in any sort of ancient near eastern context - pointedly including OT and NT authors - presumed any idea that ever comes close to a modern empirical view of sexual orientation as a biological, social, psychological part of human nature.

What most OT and NT authors knew about same sex activities was mainly: A)rape of men, women, children conquered in war, by the soldiers of the winning side - see Gray Temple's discussion of strong/weak in his book; B) many sorts of sacred sex rituals and activities, entirely common to ancient near eastern pagan religions; C) other sex activities, mainly involving strong-privileged (mostly) men and (some) women, using any and all weaker-unprivileged humans for their sole sexual pleasures. That all of these dominant ancient patterns of sex should be understood to be out of bounds to OT and NT authors is so unremarkable in today's contexts, that we can nearly all agree on this much at least. Truly, modern gay life is hardly about any of these dominant sex habits of so many ancient near eastern cultures and religions? I haven't heard of any church or faith group which intends to raise money for its facilities and events by having dedicated believers or followers exchange sex for contributions. Maybe I'm just out of those loops? Forcible rape is still more common than anybody of nearly any faith would like - but modern gay life is hardly premised on rape? In fact, the clear modern trend at least since the Enlightenment Era has been towards a sense of equality which undoes the very old, very powerful precedents which told strong people they could use weaker people of any age for their exclusive sexual satisfactions?

What is, indeed, entirely remarkable now is that so many believers who so dearly love to tell everybody how biblical their views are, make a flat earth, loud, and categorical leap from these three dominant, widespread ancient near eastern sex practices, to today's honestly and ethically committed same sex relationships. Even the technical terms, homosexuality and homosexual, were completely unknown in any ancient near eastern language for which we have any reliable record. Such modern terms were first published, only in the 1800s, and continuing more or less to the present. Despite this consideration, many translators, preachers, and expounders of allegedly biblical views continue to blithely read these terms, back into OT and NT literatures.

All in all, this manner of reading the OT and NT is simply a curious and vigorous repeat of how we believers once read a literal flat earth and Ptolemaic Cosmology from exactly the same OT and NT scriptures, early on, centuries back. Similar reading strategies backed up the holy inferiority of non-white folks, including slavery; as well as banning women from schools, professions, and public life or leadership.

If you are going to argue ethically and theologically against any and all same sex life, negatively valuing (say) forcible rape in prisons (bullying, anyone?), right along with ethically pledged lifelong pairbonds - you must be willing to be responsible for your reading strategies. Even very conservative believers have nowadays backed off the clear, plain death penalty in Leviticus for any sex behavior among men (women are not mentioned? so women get a free lesbian pass?). I have yet to hear or read a detailed, logical explanation that really does its homework for how the Leviticus death penalty can change or be backgrounded, while self-righteously preserving the rest.

The paths this reading strategy takes are confounded, convoluted in a prior assumptions, more irrational than not; and bursting with fake presuppositions and beliefs about queer folks, all needed to support a simplistic prejudice on its face. An ethics and theology which categorically and presuppositionally prides itself on not being able to distinguish forcible rape from pairbonding hardly commends itself to us, as modern believers or otherwise.

WWJD? Well, for starters, I think Jesus would tell his disciples to take a break and do some homework.

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"Seriously, stone-age ethics in 2011? WTF?"

It is a Christian University. Founded on Christian principles. What part of that do you not understand?

Customers can complain, however, I don't hear alot of the customers (parents of the students) complaining. Note alot and not all.

I am not trying to shut anyone up, just stating the obvious that it is a PRIVATE university and they can make their rules as such. You enter the university, are given a handbook to review and are expected to act accordingly. If you violate the rules, then you are subject to suspension or expulsion. Whether it be a same sex relationship, premarital sex, drug use, violence, etc, you have to adhere to the rules.

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Harding University if free to block any site it chooses. People who learn that certain sites are blocked are free to draw and state any conclusions they choose. I don't see much effort here to try to stop Harding from operating in a way that is consistent with its mission.

Perhaps the folks at Harding even take pride, in a Romans 12:2 kind of way, that it has not conformed to social norms outside its core values.

But I hope they are not saying, "stop talking about us" or "stop making judgments about us." Because people have a right to do those things, since the best way to evaluate people and institutions is how they treat other people, particularly people who have no power or are looked down upon.

So I say, Have at it, Harding; live out your mission! And have at it AT blog, too.

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"Harding chooses to stand against the act of homosexuality because of the Bible's clear teaching on the matter."

@readandteach10: prove this "clear teaching" you speak of.

Westboro also has their interpretation of the scriptures Harding would cite and both use that interpretation to tell people gays are not worthy of Heaven.

I've read the Bible. I guess you think I need you to "teach" me.

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The comment from HUStudent7 is a perfect example of the damage bigoted institutions can inflict on people. I WAS HUStudent7 ten years ago. HUStudent7 - you are not a mistake - no matter who you love.

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@arkansas panic fan

"I am not trying to shut anyone up, just stating the obvious that it is a PRIVATE university and they can make their rules as such."

A non-point. Nobody is arguing that they can't. They're arguing it's unethical, bigoted and evil. If your point is that they're allowed to be evil and they're open about being evil, then yes, we get your point, such as it is. Good luck with that.

Cheers.

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Harding should leave gay people alone, as long as they aren't playing musical instruments and dancing.

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“Some of them twist the bible and try to interpret so that it blends in with their values and beliefs.”

This is an interesting observation, especially since the word “homosexual” is not found in the original bible, but was placed there by translators. Example: 1 Timothy 1:10 is often read “For the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine.”

From Religious Tolerance:

“The original Greek word "arsenokoitai" was apparently created by Paul when he wrote 1 Corinthians about 55 CE. No record remains of any writer using the term before that time. The word is often translated in English versions of the Bible as "homosexual."”
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc…

Apparently lesbianism is looked upon favorably, as it is not dissuaded. Must we presume that HU encourages fathers & daughters per Lot in Genesis 19?


“Be not righteous overmuch” Bible, Ecclesiastes vii. 16

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readandteach10---
wait wait wait wait wait... Let me quote you first. "Harding chooses to stand against the act of homosexuality because of the Bible's clear teaching on the matter (which is God's TRUTH and not our just our "interpretation" of the text)."

OK. You sound like you work at, go to, or graduated from Harding. Am I right? So you are telling me, that Harding, the institution, has spoken with GOD at length about ITS inclination towards homosexuality? And that unequivocally, GOD's TRUTH is anti-homosexuality? Really? I mean... Are you really saying you possess a direct line to GOD? A little red phone with a direct line to your Lord's thoughts and decisions?

Cause you know, that would mean you knew more about GOD than Jesus Christ. His own son on Earth. Yeah... You must know everything right?

Ok, forget my snark for a second. The Bible was written by human beings to create a religious system of beliefs. It was not written by GOD. Human hands, human thoughts, human opinions, HUMAN discrimination, Human errors. You are going to stand there and tell us, in this modern technological era where we understand that cellular biology and physics aren't MAGIC, that the bible, a 2000 year old book of myths and morals, is the word of GOD? And then you pick 6 lines from that book to defend discrimination against an entire group of human beings? Whether or not you like them you still, " disagree with the act of homosexuality," because a book written by people, who's minds would be BLOWN by modern society, told you it was wrong???????????????

Good GOD man? DO you have any idea HOW STUPID YOU SOUND or how medieval Harding, the institution, sounds for reacting this way and having these incredibly anachronistic rules to begin with?

Catholicism is a seriously outdated, discriminatory mythology that controls it believers via indoctrination at an early age, and by issuing threats/bribes towards our immortal souls, which only the religious and spiritual ASSUME exist yet which NO ONE has any real clue about. LOL... ITS INSANE. We think therefore we are. But thinking or HAVING FAITH doesn't guarantee us some otherness that lives on in an alternate reality after we die. NO, but imagination does. Just like imagination created GODS and religions.

Religions, souls, gods, are all imaginary crutches invented by human beings to try and come up with a reason for our existence. Why can't we live by the good ideas of humanitarianism, and take care of each other FIRST, before the imaginary desires of imaginary deities.

readandteach10-

Your name embodies two of the things I hold most dear. Reading because I love to, and teaching because its vital to new generations, and I love learning. But your words illustrate a blind spot in you when it comes to REALITY. Reality is people, how they interact, and how they should care for each other. The Bible, or your "word of God" is no longer reality, and it never was. The only reason it held power was because the vast majority of people were ignorant and hardly understood anything except how to live day to day within their societies and cultures. Well those societies and cultures no longer exist. The only reason Islam, Judaism, and Catholicism still remain today are because of the massive human bases they built up over the centuries. Their beliefs don't reflect reality. Yours don't either. Its time to grow up.

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rcn2- read my previous post if you think I'm defending Harding because I like their rules. Calling Harding evil takes the argument completely out of context. They aren't evil. They are trying to run an institution with rules that do not reflect modern society or reality. That doesn't make them evil. So don't call them evil. Misguided, throwbacks, anachronistic, outdated. Not evil. They aren't actively persecuting people or hunting down gays. They aren't Westboro Baptist which is just bugnuts crazy. They're an institution with outdated ignorant rules. But they aren't evil and it isn't fair of you to call them evil. And they do provide a pretty good education for their students. Except when it comes to modern societal norms.

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Seriously, if someone wants to start a university based on Rastafarian principles, and require all students to get high and worship Haile Selassie as God incarnate etc., should society interfere by requiring it to be non-smoking since smoking is documented as being bad for people and evil?

At what point do you require a private institution to deviate from its own beliefs because society has a different set? Imagine what the Tea Party would do to the ACLU using that logic. I'm not defending Harding; I'm pointing out a slippery slope when we decide that every institution in American must conform to whatever moral code the rest of us decide to impose on it. Tea Party thinking.

The students must have wanted the website to get shut down or they wouldn't have hosted it on Harding servers. They did a great job generating publicity from it.

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All I have to say is...if you claim tolerance on one side....tolerate the opposing view. It is not a matter of bigotry or hate towards gays. It is a matter of rules set up by an institution.
To the Christians being aggressive with people who don't completely understand or dislike Christians you need to calm down. You can provide your answer in response, but pray and think before you speak. To the other side of the argument.

If you don't agree with Christianity why cant you "tolerate" their view? Whether you disagree or not. I see that as a double standard. You will never be able to convince someone to your side of the argument with harsh words, insulting a persons view, or hating someone. Love and carefully and kindly expressed views of your side of the argument are preferred.
To those who comment with few words that involve BS and WTF, you provide nothing to the conversation at hand so please don't comment.

Think before you speak, and please prepare your thoughts. Christians remember who you are representing and those on the other side of the issue remember who or what you are claiming to represent.

I am from a christian background. I don't believe in the bible as of a year and a half now. I do understand kindness and I do understand both sides to the argument. I don't think Harding is being hateful towards a specific sexual orientation. I dont believe the hate the kids they kick out of school for sex outside of marriage, drugs, alcohol etc. It is a policy they enforce.

My advice is don't go to Taco Bell because everybody your with forces you to go because your the only one in the car who wanted to go to Burger King. Then get to Taco Bell and demand a Hamburger and then scream discrimination because thats not what they offer. Food for thought.

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A resident- if only tolerance was a central tenet of the new Christian dogma.

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Hawkeye Pierce, you ask, "Are you honestly saying that the Hebrews & Greeks who wrote scriptures had no idea that same-sex relationships existed?"

No. That's not what I said at all. I pointed out that the Hebrew and Christian scriptures could not have condemned "homosexuality" or even used the term "homosexuality" because the word did not exist until the latter half of the 19th century. Nor did the concept of innate predisposition to erotic attraction to members of one's own sex--the psychological notion to which the term points, and to describe which it was coined--occur to those who wrote the scriptures.

It couldn't occur to them. They didn't have a vocabulary to think in these terms.

The scriptures don't condemn homosexuality because those writing these documents didn't have a word to describe what we now call homosexuality or an awareness of a psychological concept that began to develop only in the latter part of the 19th century.

Were those writing the scriptures aware that people of the same gender sometimes had sex with each other? Of course. Because that has happened throughout history and will continue to happen, since it's a naturally occurring phenomenon--throughout nature in the animal kingdom.

What did they think of this behavior morally? In the case of the Jewish community, there's some strong evidence that they associated it with "pagan" behavior, with the behavior of the surrounding non-monotheistic nations. And so they condemned it in their purity code, along with eating shellfish or pork, wearing clothes of more than one fiber mixed with each other, consulting or being a witch, cursing your parents, sleeping with one of your wives (Jewish men had as many as they could afford in this period) during her menstrual period, taking as your wife a sister of one of your wives, etc.

I wonder why modern Christians select that single verse from Leviticus 18 about how a man shall not lie with another man while ignoring all those other surrounding verses.

No translation of the bible ever used the word "homosexual" or "homosexuality" until the 20th century--because the word did not exist until the late 19th century and there is no equivalent for it in either Hebrew or Greek. Check the translation so beloved by many Southern Christians, the King James version, and see if you can find it ever condemning (or even talking about) "homosexuality."

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I wonder what all those stoutly defending the "right" of Harding to discriminate against gays and lesbians would say if any religious college suddenly announced that, since the bible tells women to submit to men, it intends to discriminate against women?

Especially uppity, non-submissive ones.

Or if a Christian college suddenly announced that since the bible tells slaves to obey masters and takes slavery for granted (and approves of it), the college intends to establish a slave-friendly zone in which people who practice slavery will be welcome.

Christians who now scream about what the bible says about homosexuality and about their right to discriminate once screamed very similar things about how the bible supports slavery and segregation and women's subordination.

Societies that uphold such ugly discrimination in the name of religion rarely thrive. They don't attract educated, creative, thoughtful people who help build healthy societies. Instead, they attract uneducated bigots who delight in discrimination and who build unattractive societies that turn in on themselves and self-destruct economically, politically, and socially.

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