Another good article representation from John. Don't care how they promote it Ryan's plan sounds just like another death panel promotion. If it quacks like a voucher it's a voucher period.

Death to the elderly obviously a good representation of christian conservatism.

Put another way -- it's simply greedy republicans wanting to steal our health care saving deposits we invested some 40-50 years. Hell who do they think they are banks.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

John Brummett oh so predictably asks every reader to join him by allowing the GOP to put a ring in all our noses before our morning reading. He's like a concern troll working for both dark sides.... incapable of seeing any light.

John is not interested in health or fiscally sound methods of providing care for all... he's simply watching a football game... and not a very interesting commentator on the action.

Fact... both parties have produced the following ... ever so consistently for decades on end. Fact: both parties are criminal, immoral and sold to the highest bidders.

Borrowed recent data from a comment over at Naked Capitalism :

****Crucial indicators of population health are sliding backward. Note to those who believe that “the US has the best health care system in the world”: abandon all hope.
As per Munning and Glied in the October 2010 edition of Health Affairs:

In 1950, the United States was fifth among the leading industrialized nations with respect to female life expectancy at birth, surpassed only by Sweden, Norway, Australia, and the Netherlands. The last available measure of female life expectancy had the United States ranked at forty-sixth in the world. As of September 23, 2010, the United States ranked forty-ninth for both male and female life expectancy combined.

The speed and steepness of the decline cannot be overemphasized: as recently as 1999, the U.S. was ranked by the World Health Organization as 24th in life expectancy.

By the way, and just to make sure no one harbors any false hope: No other country in the OECD has experienced any decline of these indicators in the last six decades. Which means the USA stands alone in the backwardization of crucial health indicators of a nation. *****

This not only means we are worst and falling in developed world.. we are now sinking well below others who have no universal or single payer system... and the only ones at bottom/at all who are still declining in over all health... while our prices are highest in the world and rising.

Meanwhile.. we will see a replay.. Republicans will remain shrill... and Dems will both make the GOP plan their own before passing it, insisting bipartisanship is a good thing. And 50k plus Americans will die needlessly each year.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

This plan is also nothing but a "shift of funds" plot from an easy to control Gov. agency to the less controllable "for profit" insurance firms. And as we all know, the first goal of a for profit firm is to protect the bottom line, not the patient.

If the "for profit" boys can do this job better, why don't they have a larger share of the over 65 insured market right now? Because they can't provide the same level of service for the cost.

This is nothing but a shift the money scheme for the already well off insurance industry. And the Repub. talk ill of shifting funds to help the low and middle income folks?

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

In response to Ryan's whine, I direct you to Nick Kristof's righteous rant on income inequality, destruction of medicare, etc. and the 'Pakistanization' of America which is the unstated goal of Repubs. Here's a quote:

"I’ve always made fun of these countries, but now I see echoes of that pattern of privatization of public services in America. Police budgets are being cut, but the wealthy take refuge in gated communities with private security guards. Their children are spared the impact of budget cuts at public schools and state universities because they attend private institutions.
Mass transit is underfinanced; after all, Mercedes-Benzes and private jets are much more practical, no? And maybe the most striking push for reversal of historical trends is the Republican plan to dismantle Medicare as a universal health care program for the elderly."

Go read the whole thing for yourself:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/05/opinion/…

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Paul Krugman, in the NYT today, is a great mind running on the same track as Brummett:

"Medicare is a government-run insurance system that directly pays health-care providers. Vouchercare would cut checks to insurance companies instead. Specifically, the program would pay a fixed amount toward private health insurance — higher for the poor, lower for the rich, but not varying at all with the actual level of premiums. If you couldn’t afford a policy adequate for your needs, even with the voucher, that would be your problem. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/06/opinion/…

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Snap, Do you suppose that Krugman's and Kristof's days could be numbered at the NY Times since they obviously don't agree with The Village (i.e. all the Sunday AM gas bags, almost everyone at the WaPo, the editorial page of the WSJ, Politico, most of cable television news, etc., etc.) that austerity for middle income Americans and a more abject poverty for the already poor is the only solution to our debt problem?

We can't have too much truth telling, doncha know.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Krugman makes excuses for both parties criminal maintenance of the highest prices in the world with 50 million now unable to afford care/coverage.

That's not smart.. unless you like being looted (even if you can afford it) and having 50k people drop like flies, or go bankrupt for no good reason - just trying to live a few years longer all around you... because democrytes do it more politely with the same worst in the world results.

It was democrats who just passed a law forcing millions of people to pay insurance companies directly and forcing government to directly subsidize insurance companies more than ever (same thing as GOP without printing a voucher)... remarkable how many here fail to remember that.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Eureka, we haven't forgotten. I regard ACA as a transition and not the final product. You are always long on what is wrong and what our goals should be, but short on the actual nuts and bolts of how to get us there.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Here's short for ya... Stop negotiating between two bribed and sold out parties who are constantly doubling down on looting us for 50th place in health statistics and falling for 50 years running in the entire world.

We now have 49 countries with a populace living longer than we - all of those countries do it for less cost.. why not copy the best? Giving either party or the Krug-Brummett punditry any regard is pure folly. If that's the best D's will try to do... then both parties must be tossed into the trash heap of history.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Eureka, I'm not willing to stand by and wait for things to get so awful that people will go into full on revolt. That seems to me to be what you are suggesting. Far more will die or be driven into bankruptcy in your scenario than mine. People are being helped, NOW. You are correct, it isn't enough. If we give up on the Dems and let the rethuglicans run things, it will be decades before we are even back to where we are now.

With the problems the world is facing in addition to our health care situation, the Dems are not a bunch of anti-science, anti-reality loons (well, maybe some in AR and other states of the old confederacy are). Yes, their solutions often fall short and are too much influenced by the special interests who wine them and dine them and pay for their elections.

We are on the cusp of a perfect storm of environmental, energy, and economic problems. There ISN'T time for a third party to grow big enough to have any serious clout. Who do you want to be in charge when that perfect storm hits? And it is going to hit sooner than later.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

"Put another way -- it's simply greedy republicans wanting to steal our health care saving deposits we invested some 40-50 years. Hell who do they think they are banks."

The vouchers wouldn't have much of an effect on your "deposits." Under the most optimistic scenario, by the time they would start being issued, the Medicare trust fund would have only a few years of payments left. More likely, the trust fund will already be exhausted.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Put the money borrow from Medicare for decades back into the trust fund with interest. Make it solvent again like it was designed to be.
The goverment should contract with a third party auditor to ensure less fraud and more efficient operations.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Put the money back in, with interest.

Pay for it by undoing the two major contributors to our deficit that will soon account for half of it:
- Reversal of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy
- A surcharge on every American's taxes for the expenses of the war

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

outliar, you are negotiating on behalf of murderers.. premeditated murderers - by both spreadsheet and continued denied access to basic care. You've got two big parties on your side... you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

all of the ACA transition fits into the Dole Romney Obama Ryan mold, far more than any other mold.

trillions more go to privateers while prices go up and stats continue to worsen... and medicaid suffers because it only takes care of the poorest and most costly.... all while both parties made sure people cannot chose to buy into a non profit medicaid/single payer plan.

that is not an improvement. still looking down from the bottom is not an improvement...no matter who passes a bill.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

"Put the money borrow from Medicare for decades back into the trust fund with interest."

It is being put back with interest. The trust fund earns interest on the treasury bonds it holds and can redeem them with the Treasury to raise even more cash. It started turning in its bonds in 2008. It will run out sometime between 2017 and 2024.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Not only is a voucher bad, but the "sliding scale" or "means testing" means they turn it into welfare for the poor, which then can be more easily taken away because the more well to do with their political clout won't care about it. In fact, since they feel they deserve more than the poor, they would actively work to kill it.

They really really want to get rid of any social support for anyone, especially women and girls. The right wingers hate women, for some reason, and sadistically want to use and abuse them with impunity.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Eureka, I am going to assume that 'outliar" was an inadvertent misspelling of my screen name. If it wasn't, then I would just as soon you call me an asshole like I did co led yesterday in a fit of pique.

"murderers.. premeditated murderers - by both spreadsheet and continued denied access to basic care."
As for this statement, I would ask you, when has it ever been otherwise whether the discussion is of healthcare, war, or economics? As I look at the arc of history, I see progress. Yes, we can lob death and destruction from 30,000 feet in our wars now. But it was no less savage when we looked our victim in the eye as we cut his head off with a broad sword. The fact that so many more people are questioning wars in general and Iraq and Afghanistan in particular is progress. We will never reach perfection, but we are better than we used to be in many ways. I hope we can avoid some dystopian future out of a Philip Dick novel---it is not a sure thing.

You did not answer my question as to whom you would rather be in charge if that future dystopia becomes eminent.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Medicare won't be so "broke" once it's had a little surgery to remove the MALIGNANT GROWTH put into it by Paul Ryan, John Boehner, and Mitch McConnel plus George W. Bush.

That malignant growth is called "MEDICARE ADVANTAGE" and it's costing over $15BILLION A YEAR in subsidies, likely more if all truths were told.

It was quite a scheme. Advanced planning by Republicans. Set up a new scheme which would require HUGE SUBSIDIES from taxpayers and eat up the Medicare Trust Fund, then, 8 years later, call the entire program.........BROKE...insolvent, which is it under REPUBLICAN PROGRAMS.
.
Once Affordable Health Care Act becomes operative MEDICARE ADVANTAGE IS NO MORE. It's repealed. All folks using Medicare will go back to the same program I've been using since 2006, plain vanilla Medicare as passed in 1965 and operated successfully until

Republicans fucked it up with Medicare Advantage.

Talk about two mouths on the same face: Republicans can now scream that Democrats are slashing Medicare by $500 Billion! Yes, that's true. That's the total effect of removing MEDICARE ADVANTAGE and going back to the system that worked for over 45 years, called Medicare, the same one my granny used, the same one my momma used and the same one I use.

"The Medicare Modernization Act of 2003 includes numerous provisions encouraging the continued privatization of the Medicare program. Among these are billions of dollars in subsidies to private health plans intended to encourage their participation in Medicare. Overpaying private companies to provide services that could readily be provided by traditional Medicare at less cost undermines the Medicare program and increases Part B premiums for all beneficiaries as well as increasing costs to the federal government. The National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare believes these subsidies should be eliminated, and the savings dedicated to the preservation and expansion of traditional Medicare. "

http://www.ncpssm.org/news/archive/vp_medi…
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Look, there's a fire in the barn! Oh no! We must just let it burn so we can collect the insurance money. That way it costs us less."

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

outlier, you should know by now that eureka just points out what's wrong in his utopian view of the world. No solutions are offered. After all, we can't trust either major party, so we are going to have to fix the world's problems by doing the following (in his opinion):
....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

eureka is clearly omniscient (at least in his own mind), but just as clearly not omnipotent. Maybe we should refer to him as Maharishi in the future?

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Saves $500 billion? That will buy less than a year.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Eureka, that's funny you mention how we bottom out. UN study, CDC study showed that we were nowhere near as bad as you advertised. Not the best, but not bad, and in fact women did pretty well, hitting the 80yo mark.

Closest I could find about your study Harvard didn't point out health care as the main culprit, but took a more honest approch, looking at many factors that would be contrtibuting to a stagnation of female life expectancy at birth. One of them was obesity, another was the rise in heart problems and strokes in women. They wroked for equality, now they are getting some of the old timey diseases that men used to get when they were the bread winner. There ain't no one villian, kiddies. Look around, don't hide behind dubious facts.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

>>Saves $500 billion? That will buy less than a year.
Posted by Gyllipus <

Source? Evidence? blind faith.....

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

I think this might be an appropraite thread on which to express appreciation to outlier, who is relatively new to Arkansas and this blog, for his varied, interesting, calm, reasonable, amicable, open-minded posts. Glad you're here, outlier!

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/120xx/doc12039/…
Page 14

Medicare spent $520 billion in 2010, and it has had a nasty habit of more than doubling spending every decade.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Page 10, rather.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Thanks, Snap, but I'm an old woman. Does it count that I lived in Arkansas when I was little and my oldest brother graduated from Stamps H.S. in 1948 and did 2 years of college at whatever the Magnolia school was called then?

Sound, I can't quite write Eureka off yet. If ever in a war, he's a guy you want flying wing for you or sharing a foxhole (that alone should tell you I'm old---do they dig foxholes anymore?). My arguments are as much for other readers who might share his views, but be less rigid in their thinking than he seems to be. I find it more than a little ironic though, that Eureka was perfectly willing to defend Hamsher of FireDogLake when she climbed into bed with Grover Norquist (he, of the no tax pledge for incoming Congress critters and shrinking government til it can be drowned in a bathtub fame). I can't remember the issue where Hamsher made alliance with Norquist, but that was excusable in Eureka's eyes, and yet I should be ashamed for supporting Democrats? The mind is boggling here.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Ok, classic T'bagging there G'pus.

WHERE IS MEDICARE broken down? Lumping all "Social Expense" Revenues into one

number then singling out Medicare..that works for you?

Sell that on the Hannity the House Painter or Glen Beck show!

Social Insurance revenues 2010...$864.8
Medicare expense...........2010...$520.4

I hope bloggers take note of this. It's classic LYING by T'bag Republicans.

They show the expenditures but NEVER the Revenues.

I, like 42 MILLION Americans are paying $96 month for Medicare insurance.

WHERE IS THAT REVENUE LISTED G-PUS???

Your CBO chart re enforces my point exactly. After The Bush-Republican MEDICARE ADVANTAGE, Medicare spending jumped by 45%

First they break it, then they say "Let's Destroy it in order to Save it."

But we'll get the Hallelujah Chorus to say it's REFORM.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Btw, want to see a program that runs a NET DEFICIT EVERY YEAR, AFTER YEAR since
1942?

DOD.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

http://www.cms.gov/ReportsTrustFunds/downl…
Read at your leisure. The gist of it is, at least as far as the Part A trust fund goes, under current law, including cuts to Medicare Advantage, the Part A trust fund will be exhausted in 2024.

Where the various parts of Medicare got their money and where they spent it are listed in the report as well.

So, I was wrong. The savings from cutting Medicare Advantage bought five or six years.

The above link assumes some rather large cuts to payments that will most likely not happen. This: http://www.cms.gov/ActuarialStudies/Downlo… better reflects what will more likely happen. As far as the Part A trust fund is concerned, it will be exhausted a few months earlier.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

SO utterly rejecting the fact we are the only developed nation in the world who does not provide care for all and we are the most expensive... and we all know it is entirely because both major parties are bought and sold out to the highest bidders.

Refusing to negotiate with premeditated bribed murderers and their band of lessor evil voters... makes me unreasonable? You ought to hear yourselves... makes for a great belly laugh.

And all you can ask is who would I pick... i've already stated in many ways... first we must reject the criminals in charge. Let's support anyone who demands we join all other developed nations, without fail, without apology.

Hamsher was working with republicans, including Norquist on a single issue... civil liberty or bankster related (i forget what)... and i supported that specific move, narrow in scope as it was at the time.. with a written plan/agreement iirc. i also worked with Hamsher through a few areas we didn't agree on. You are ignoring the points of this thread and why we are led by murderers in both parties... you are a party to the worst care in the world for the highest cost... and making excuses, changing subjects, instead of having basic decency, morals or a spine.... much less bargaining for the kind of prices the rest of the entire developed world pays for care and drugs. You really think your evasive immoral substance free defense is attracting silent ones to your party?

Thank goddess i am no longer a Democrat. Not even for dog catcher.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike

Actually, Eureka, I doubt that there is anyone you can vote for with your requirements. Most of us are working to make things better but it doesn't all happen at once. If you wait for the "perfect", nothing will ever happen. You must live in a very sad world.

report 0 likes, 0 dislikes   like  dislike