Wednesday, December 14, 2011
Arkansas Politics / Religion Church and state in Arkansas
Posted by Max Brantley on Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 7:03 PM
Is the state of Arkansas ever going to do anything about Bible instruction in state-funded preschools operated by two Republican legislators — Rep. Justin Harris of West Fork and Sen. Johnny Key of Mountain Home? I mentioned several days ago that I got the runaround on this question to the Department of Human Services, which sends the schools hundreds of thousands in tax dollars that is used to instruct kids in Bible, sing hymns and other religious activities along with usual daycare. (Harris gets at least $875,000 from various tax sources. Key gets at least $1.1 million.) Much study is required, I was told. Conferring must be done. Other states must be reviewed. The attorney general must be consulted (though that office disclaims involvement despite both DHS and Harris invoking its name.) I noticed that John Brummett got the same runaround when he inquired for a column he published on the subject today.
I also called Americans United for Church and State, which had complained formally about the practice at Harris' Growing God's Kingdom school in West Fork. The staff lawyer was temperate. He said it was awaiting a response from the state and jumping to no conclusions. He added, however, that the group had concerns about similar practices at other schools (I presumed he meant Key's), but declined to discuss it. His group, like the ACLU, prefers to work out agreements with public agencies to halt improper practices rather than suing. Sometimes public agencies have hard heads, particularly when it comes to taking money away from Republican lawmakers, some of them, like Key, quite powerful. Religious coercion is a powerful force in Arkansas, witness the recent outrage in Paragould where angry "Christians," amid some hints of even violence against critical newspaper types, forced the reposting of a Nativity Scene honoring Christ's birth in a public school classroom. Christian majority rules, by damn.
Cat's out of the bag on Key, however. The Northwest Arkansas division (pay wall) of the Democrat-Gazette talked to another person at Americans United and he told the newspaper the group will be writing a formal letter about Key's pre-school, asking for investigation by DHS and the state Education Department, which has also been running from its responsibility on this issue. Specifically, the Noah's Ark and Open Arms schools have prayers at two meals a day and a daily Bible lesson. School director Shannon Key readily acknowledged the religious practices. She said it was one reason people chose her taxpayer-financed school. She said she'd stop the practices if asked by the state. "Nobody wants a ruckus," she told the newspaper.
This is better than Harris' aggressive violation of the Constitution, but it's still passive aggressive. This doesn't require a lot of study. If people want church schools, they can attend them and find a way to pay for them with something other than taxpayer money. Schools receiving taxpayer money shouldn't hold prayer exercises — Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Wiccan or Hindu. When caught, they should quit.
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Comments (25)
Showing 1-25 of 25
I just had a chance to read through the comments on the - Paragould school puts Nativity Scene back up after protest - thread.
http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archi…
As usual, religionists put up a wounded howl.
As what I suppose was a conciliatory effort, Skypilot put forth a few questions: "Just what constitutes an "establishment" of religion? Does that simply refer to a church, synagogue, mosque, etc., or does it mean that the sate cannot "establish" a religion, or even favor one religion over another?"
Obviously unknown to Sky, there are numerous rulings addressing those very questions fairly clearly. Government or its agents, in any form (including schools), should not be in the business of promoting religion. Tax money should not be used to promote religion. On the other hand, religions enjoy freedom from taxation.
On tonight's open line, eLwood quotes the Ark. Constitution which explains clearly enough for some religionists to understand: “no man can, of right, be compelled to attend, erect or support any place of worship, or to maintain any ministry against his consent.”
In response to Sky, I'd offer these questions: If government were to promote religion, whose religious permutation should be preferred? Whose religion is to be banned? How do we make those choices? Even among christians there is a wide spectrum of practices and beliefs - simply look at the numerous varieties of baptists. Would religious tribunals trump civil law?
Sky, again trying to sound reasonable, says: ..."And I can understand the reason for the "majority" of Christians' resenting that practices have to conform to the wishes of the "atheistic" or "pagan" minority. Someone's belief system is going to be enforced by law. It is, of course, a simplistic belief, but there is still a notion that "the majority rules." "
He makes 2 fundamentalist errors. First, neutrality is NOT atheism. Second, this is a republic, not a democracy. Yes, there is "majority rule" (today it means those with the majority of money rule), but with respect for minority rights.
In the fevered minds of fundamentalists, of all stripes, religious neutrality is carrying this notion (of the American Constitution) too far. They fail to recognize the tyranny and abject failure of theocracies.
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It is distressing that two members of the General Assembly, who swore to uphold the laws and constitutions of both the US and Arkansas, would flagrantly violate those provisions for profit. Judging by their voting records, both of these people could claim, in their defense, that they are no strangers to ignorance. As if that can absolve their greed.
In the fabled mass of paperwork, there must be a form they signed stating that they were not accepting public funds in violation of state or federal laws.
Why the hell am I paying Arkansas taxes or following Arkansas laws when apparently if you have money and are a Republican, you can pick and choose the laws you feel like following.
And who the hell knew there was such big big money in running a snotty nose factory? Give me 1.1 million per year and I'll build the finest day care center in Arkansas AND follow all the state and Federal laws. How many thousands of kids go to Key's school?
Teachers work for damn near nothing, Kool-aid, Crayolas, colored construction papers, glue and some recess equipment doesn't come close to using up a million dollars per year. What kind of damn racket is the state of Arkansas enabling here? How many other million dollar day care centers are there in Arkansas? Any? Lots? Forget selling Meth.....day care is the way to get filthy rich in this state.
Why follow Arkansas laws when some people don't have to? This is a stinking crock of shit! I plan to speed tomorrow like I'm a Republican legislator from Greenwood! FK laws if ya feel like it, it's what we do in Arkansas!
Key had a child kidnapped recently too. Negligent christian care givers it seems.
These schools are not for Jesus or Christianity. That's something evangelicals and too religious Arkies are not understanding.
These schools are tax dodges, scams and money makers. They are swindles and chicanery. These schools are "jimmy-swaggarts" and "pass the loots." They are the money changers in the temple. The schools are an ignominious, despicable, and contemptable way to shove money into the pockets of charlatans who mislead the faithful under the guise of educating for Jesus--all the way to the bank. I do not believe for one instant that what these school operators have done is anything short of an ethical and moral theft, enabled by tax law and workers in the Department of Human Services, who should be pulled out of their jobs, root and branch.
This is another reason there must be separation of church and state. Because if there isn't, someone will always line up and effectively steal money from the government using religion. And oh! The wailing if these were Wiccan schools!
Too bad we don't have a Mormon group operating a daycare getting state funds. It would be fun to watch how fast the AR DHS people would hop on that one once they found out.
Well! "Good bye" Arkansas Baptist College, Philander, Words of Outreach, UM children's Home, In His Image, and all of you other wretched faith-based consumers of gov't funds!
Maybe where and who you serve will save some from attack which is a whole other issue!
When caught, they should quit.
When caught they should have to pay back every ill gotten penny plus being fined. If the is no penalty nothing will stop them from misappropriating more tax money & saying whoops.
Congregations of the same denomination cannot even get along with one another...every town has Main street Baptist, 2nd Street Baptist, Northside Baptist, Southside Baptist, an on and on. With so much discord in their own faiths, how can these simple-minded people expect a nation of almost 300 million to be GOVERNED by theirs or any other faith??
The current marquee at Harris's school is: Jesus Is the Reason for the Season. He is flaunting the hell out of this issue, and is very arrogant about his views prevailing. He is one dishonest, greedy SOB, but he has no fears because he feels that God is on his side.
My youngest child received excellent daycare in a church run school, but it did not cost tax payers a penny. And it was affordable for me, too. The sums quoted here call for outrage. I understand that many "regulators" may be sympathetic towards the bible pushers, but they should know the law and abide by it. "Give to Caesar..."
Your hatred of anything religious is blasphemy Brantley...you'll do anything to please the anti-Christian folks....Have a nice eternity !!!!
You might wish to explore how the management guru Drucker saw politics as the Art Form, though when Einstein was working with the linguist, Godel before the immigration judge, trying to get a pass into the country, Godel started explaining the flaws in the Constitution. The thought that our constitution, not to mention the imperfect nature of our biology surely deserves further debate in a timely manner of the Arkansas Intellect.
And now, Razorbabies, the Spirit of Christmas Past stuffs your stocking with . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOYVlRHuymc…
November, Bless you narrow-minded heart. Try to have a little more room for thinking in your life. Very harsh to assume Max's place in Eternity.
Is it not a sin to tax the people and redistribute their money to the Pharisees?
November, that you for summarizing the true basis of religion: "Believe what I do or suffer eternal damnation." It is a form of persuasion that works well with children and adults with similar mental capacity.
Ive never been one to believe in fairy tales now that I'm an adult and can reason(bring on the God particle..please!).
Its clear this jerk-off up there is thumbing his nose, so let's appease him and grab back all money from the past and certainly going forward. I'm certin his holy-rollers will step-up and bail the school out.
Follow whatever you want, yet do not force it on me nor use my tax payer money to fund something such as this. Its wrong no matter how you slice it. Peace be with ewe.
look, i would run against harris myself but i gotta work. its not everyone who has inlaws that give them the property and building to set up day care shop. now, who is gonna run against this idiot. i'm done being nice!
Laura, if you can come up with a viable candidate, post the information here. I bet we can help raise some money for the race.
Someone running a school who doesn't know what the constitution says about this type endeavor. Isn't this kind of like an athlete taking under the table payments, except it's in the public record and said individual feels entitled to taxpayer money to fund his particular religous little school. Well, heck, let's get everybody into this scheme and make some money. Heck at $900.00 a pop teaching a few family members would be financially rewarding.
"Congress shall make no law with respect to an establishment of religion or prohibit the free exercise thereof" When someone can explain to me how appropriating public funds to schools who offer religious instruction as part of their curriculum ESTABLISHES religion, I'll agree with you. Until then, all this hype is just old fashion religious bigotry.
The shameful dark secrets of Arkansas. A state where a human life has no meaning. justice4sarah.org
tp, You've made it clear that facts and reading comprehension are not acceptable traits among religionists. Conducting a logical debate with you is futile. Knowledge is a leftist atheist plot. Even with the best medical care you still believe that reality is the devil's facade. Your beliefs are measured by how long you cling to ignorance in spite of a preponderance of truth shown to you.
Despite that evidence from your previous troll postings, Mr. Pope, I will suggest you read the decades of supreme court rulings that directly address your question.
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