Tuesday, December 27, 2011
Guns Gun permit holders commit crimes, review finds
Posted by Max Brantley on Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 6:43 AM
The New York Times examines the rolls of concealed carry permit holders in North Carolina — one of the few states where carry records remain fully open — and finds this in a five-year review of records:
More than 2,400 permit holders were convicted of felonies or misdemeanors, excluding traffic-related crimes, over the five-year period, The Times found when it compared databases of recent criminal court cases and licensees. While the figure represents a small percentage of those with permits, more than 200 were convicted of felonies, including at least 10 who committed murder or manslaughter. All but two of the killers used a gun.... More than 200 permit holders were also convicted of gun- or weapon-related felonies or misdemeanors, including roughly 60 who committed weapon-related assaults.
In addition, nearly 900 permit holders were convicted of drunken driving, a potentially volatile circumstance given the link between drinking and violence.
The review also raises concerns about how well government officials police the permit process. In about half of the felony convictions, the authorities failed to revoke or suspend the holder’s permit, including for cases of murder, rape and kidnapping. The apparent oversights are especially worrisome in North Carolina, one of about 20 states where anyone with a valid concealed handgun permit can buy firearms without the federally mandated criminal background check. (Under federal law, felons lose the right to own guns.)
Permit holders commit crimes? Why sure, some of them do. In Arkansas, think Randeep Mann, the bomb conspiracy mastermind. Think the guy who shot up the Van Buren County courthouse (Crawford County) in western Arkansas. Fact is, as the story notes, the gun lobby has successfully worked to put more guns in more hands in more public places. Somebody regularly tries to walk through airport security with a weapon packed in a carry-on bag. More guns also mean more available for theft and misuse. Feel safer?
Speaking of Gun Nuttery, concealed Carry Permits
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Comments (14)
Showing 1-14 of 14
I grew up with a loaded shotgun and rifle leaning against the corner at the bottom of the stairs where the door opened outward to the dining room. I knew they were loaded and stayed as far away as possible when going up or down. But those guns were never fired in town, were strictly for hunting, and I wonder still why they were never unloaded except for a rare cleaning. In Grandma's house there was a long barreled pistol in her dresser drawer. She lived near the railroad tracks, a block or so from a grain elevator, and used the pistol to shoot rats between her privy and henhouse. I never touched it. But I never felt safer because it was there. I do not understand why anyone would want a handgun in their purse, on their hip, or in their home. And I usually question the sanity of those who do.
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Pretend a shotgun is always loaded, because an unloaded shotgun is no good.
"Hand guns were made for killin', they ain't no good for nothing else." -Lynyrd Skynyrd
Max, Don't you mean the Crawford County Courthouse in Van Buren? I don't recall the Van Buren county courthouse being shot up.
Was having dinner recently in one of our busy, more upscale restaurants. A dining companion said he felt “100 percent sure” he’d win a bet that at least every third person in the place was packing heat. Wouldn’t be surprised: At Little Rock National Airport the other day, the 11th person this year was arrested for having a gun in carry-on luggage. One of this year’s prize winners is the hospital CEO at Crossett, formerly a high-ranking administrator at Ark. Children’s Hospital. Those who know him would have placed him 105th on a list of 100 people likely to be carrying a gun. Y’never know.
Remember the pro-civil-rights bumper-sticker from the 1960s? "Your local police are armed and dangerous." How about one for our times -- "Your local misanthropes are armed and dangerous..."?
Nah. On second thought, if you put one on your vehicle, you could be arrested for suspected terrorism and held without charges for the duration of the war thereon.
So, exactly which strawman are you trying to knock down here?
Nobody credible has said that concealed weapons license holders are perfect, or that they never commit crimes. There are bad apples among CCW holders just as there are bad cops, teachers, doctors, priests, and newspaper reporters.
The only real point I've ever heard made by the CCW people is that, compared to any other random sample of the population, their probability for being a criminal is much less, as evidenced by their ability to pass an ASP (and possibly federal, I don't know) background check. Sure, some of them do bad things after passing the check... just like anyone else.
Also, I find it odd that you guys continue to beat the dead horse of CCW holders being irresponsible, troublesome people. By and large, they're not. Their numbers are one the rise and gun sales are setting record highs, yet according to the FBI statistics,violent crime is down overall. How does that work? It's almost as if the old saw about more guns=more crime is baseless. Wow! Imagine that!
By the way, the FBI stats are available here, for those who like, you know, numbers and other sciency stuff like that.
http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-rel…
>>There are bad apples among CCW holders just as there are bad cops, teachers, doctors, priests, and newspaper reporters. <
from the article-
"The review also raises concerns about how well government officials police the permit process. In about half of the felony convictions, the authorities failed to revoke or suspend the holder’s permit, including for cases of murder, rape and kidnapping."
Now which straw man?
Good points by both Art and eLwood. Studies have shown that CC folks are less likely to commit crimes, but I'd love to look deeply into those numbers. eLwood makes a great point that authorities are not doing well at revoking permits for people who commit felonies or violent crimes. Also, I'd like to add that they have done very poorly at revoking permits for those placed under mental health holds.
I feel like gun rights is a place in politics where entrenched liberals tend to abandon some of their core beliefs and revert to the party line. For a classical liberal the right to keep a bear arms should be something they are fighting for, something that promotes liberty.
Max is a hard left ideologue who demands absolute perfection from those he opposes while turning a blind eye to the storm surrounding him. I imagine his wife must have a hard time being married to such a “Christ-like” individual.
I wish Max lived next to me so I could post the sign that says: “My next door neighbor wants to ban all guns! Their House is not armed! Out of respect for their opinions, I promise not to protect them with my guns.”
My concealed weapon has saved my life twice and each of my son's once in the past few years so Max's opinion on this issue is as worthless as the periodical for which he writes.
Jridd3, you must either look for trouble or are working for a jeweler, as you've needed to use a weapon at least 4 times in the last few years assuming you have at least two sons. Otherwise I call bullshit!
Now, I have a Ruger 9mm and a .22 rifle. The Ruger is for home defense, I strip and clean it regularly. The .22 is for plinking at the range to improve my sharpshooting. I've lived in southwest Little Rock for almost 7 years and I have never felt the need to aim either of my weapons at another person. Not even a scary pounding on the front door for me.
MarcKyle64 -
I do not look for trouble nor work for a jeweler. Call BS all you want, I know the truth.
I was attacked in the middle of the day with my youngest son in one instance and my red dot scared him away. My older son (whose also has a CHCL) was attacked by an angry drunk late at night and his red dot scared away that attacker. And finally, two young men came at me at a gas station one night looking for trouble and the sight of my gun protruding from my coat in my hand scared them away.
Thank God no shots were fired in any instance.
Little Rock is far more dangerous than people realize. Face it, the economy is horrible and some people look for easy targets. I don't think I look like someone you would want to mess with but who knows?
I know a guys called for jury duty 6 times in 14 years. That also defies the laws of probability but it happened none the less.
I agree with you, Jridd3, improbable coincidences happen all the time. Maybe I've been fortunate thus far. I hope I stay that way and hope you do, too. I've been thinking about a CCL, if things get worse I'll probably get one, but I hope to Buddha I'll never need to use it.
MarcKyle64 -
I will admit that I've always been a little superstitious regarding preparedness,.. more as insurance that I would pay for yet never need. While I have been wrong regarding my CHCL thus far, I do hope I am never forced to the next level of response.
I do urge every qualifying, competent gun handling citizen to obtain a CHCL and practice regularly. Unfortunately, in this economy (and I hope that I am wrong), I only see things getting worse.
Get it and (hopefully) never need it.
Let me get this straight. Of the miliions of legal ccw carrie (estimated 6 million in 09), less than 500 commit crimes a year and they are all bad? More dr's kill people.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389/ns/us_news-life/#.T0VpafVVWZ4
Great logic, wait...there is none here.
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