I think that any Christian that ever has an Not in my back yard isn't really Christian.

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Some of these downtown folks are real dicks.

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If they don't want the clinic there let them pay any cost to the va for cancelling the lease. Bet that shuts them up

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The cost of defending (warriors) peoples (non warriors) rights is expensive in human sacrifice. Too bad the selfish latter refuses to share the cost to repair those who have given so much on their behalf.

So much for southern christian compassion.

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Aside from the hostile pig headededness toward Veterans, DNA is a mixed zoning neighborhood. It can't be just a bunch of houses like a secluded cul de sac in WLR. I thought one of the draws to new urbanism was mixed use zoning.

Businesses are going to be mixed in. Some of those businesses are service related. The services that support Vets with addiction treatments should be centrally located. The treatment center needs to be close by the networked bus routes, food kitchens and shelters so it seems until that is the bus routes go to many more places than they do now. But, that's another issue.

Presently, I don't think most of them will have the means of private transportation to travel to deepest parts of Pulaski where DNA and the city can forget about them. Out of sight out of mind thing.

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Repost from another thread with additions:

Unfortunately, I suspect many of us do not have the large numbers of homeless shelters and half way houses in our neighborhoods, that those who live downtown have. It's easy to say 10th and Main is a great location for such facilities, because it's not on your block. I suspect that if I were downtown, I too would be a bit prickly about yet another shelter being located in my neighborhood (I have friends in this neighborhood).

Even though this center may focus only on vets, those in the VA have said they aren't always sure those they serve over on Ringo are truly vets. So, I suppose there are no card checks to see who is and isn't a vet. And, sorry to say, just because many of these men and women fought for our country, it doesn't mean they don't have the same problems found among many of the civilian homeless.

I think it a bit disingenuous to insinuate the downtown neighborhood people are horrible because they may not want this shelter located near them. Hillcrest has room. So does the Heights. It seems to be the same old white people game: keep the homeless and halfway shelters where the poor and black are the majority and keep'em outta "white liberal" Hillcrest and The Heights neighborhoods. EVEN the Union Mission on Confederate is located in a black neighborhood.

You can also see how no one wants to interact with the homeless by driving down certain downtown streets and seeing second storey bridges so state workers never have to set foot on Little Rock soil. In the mean time, you have new residents moving to the neighborhood rehabing old homes and trying to make it into a new neighborhood (See Jay Barth's article in The Times on SOMA).

So yeah, I get the fact that the neighborhood would be upset about the shelter, even if it IS for vets. I'd be gun shy too if I had that many shelters near my home.

For those of you who do portray downtown people as "dicks" or whatever else, why not let the shelter locate next to your home? If you don't want it there, why not? And the argument "locate shelters where the homeless are" is ineffective because transportation could be provided anywhere in the city if needed.

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Morning inspiration:

Don't get me wrong. Downtown has borne more than its share of services for the needy. But I just thought I'd mention that an institution for the criminally insane, a community correction facility, a clinic for mentally ill, a medical facility handling most of the city's crime victims, a VA day clinic and a batch of other services attracting a number of on-foot clientele known to hang at a liquor store across the street is ALMOST IN THE HEART OF HILLCREST. A free cup of coffee to first reader who identifies this magnet.

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And after the meeting, they all went back to their cozy homes, had a hot meal and maybe a snack, and slept comfortably in a warm bed. While outside the freezing winds blew through the night.
While outside the homeless shivered in misery and pain, hunger gnawing at their insides. Who really wants to be in their place much less even think about their hardships.
Doesn't the Bible say something about how we treat our brother? And I seem to recall some scripture about someone asking for a loaf of bread but being given a stone instead.

But, the decision was made by folks who slept in nice warm homes and in cozy warm beds.

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UAMS campus is home to criminally insane, hospital to crime victims, etc. Already having my coffee, though.

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I live in Hillcrest and would be happy to have a center here. It'd fit nicely with the other services Max mentioned. That argument is a bit of a red herring though.

I'm community pastor of a church that's 2 blocks from the proposed center and I'm happy to have it there as well. I have many friends in the homeless veteran community who I love, respect and admire. They need help. At a convenient location. Our little church has become a magnet for them and other non-vet homeless (who the proposed center wouldn't really serve). We couldn't be happier about having the opportunity to help them in some little way. It's amazing how your opinion about people changes when you actually get to know them. I'll try to keep my cynicism toward those who who haven't bothered in check.

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Just one question for that doctor--Where would be the appropriate place to locate a clinic where patients sometimes urinate on the doctor, throw feces at her, and stick her with needles? And how do those actions affect the neighborhood in which the clinic is located? These folks are desperate to keep these vets out of sight and out of mind.

(If the City of Little Rock Zoning Plan includes a zone for urinating-feces throwing-needle sticking, then I apologize for my question. That is where the clinic should go.)

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Arkansas State Hospital is not UAMS, but enjoy that coffee.

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And one other question. Don't you suppose that there might be a strong correlation between the people who do not want a liquor store in their neighborhood and those who don't want a center for homeless veterans in their neighborhood? Makes it tough to satisfy the mayor's concern about locating near a liquor store.

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Put the vet center where the homeless vets are likely to be. That would be downtown. And put it where transportation (i.e. bus service) can transport vets to the center who aren't homeless but need help. That would be downtown too.

Don't you just love how everyone loves veterans until they need help?

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Also from previous threads:

If the mayor wants a first-hand view of that neighborhood, I have a room open next door in the gray house and I'll be happy to let him stay there for a month rent-free, provided two things

1) he walks my dog twice a day down second street, past the VA, down to the other shelters on Izard and back. and one of the times has to be at about 11:30 at night.

2)he gets up on the really cold days about 7 a.m. and hangs out with all the people waiting outside to get in because there's a line out the door.

Here's a proposal. It'll cost more money, but it'll shut everyone up: There's an 18,000 sq. foot lot across the street from the current day center. It's where you see a lot of the drug dealers/users. It's been complained to enough to the owner and city that they finally started clearing it off a little bit (it was previously unkept for the better part). The VA and the city should buy that piece of land and build a new larger, more modern day center there. I don't mind living by them because I'm not a stuck up asshole. I hate to be vulgar, but that's pretty much what we're talking about, right?

And he can walk to work every day... Trash day's on Thursday. See you on the first!

It seems the Mayor, Rep. Griffin and Heights Observer subscribe to the NIMBY (NOT IN MY BACK YARD!) policy... didn't see them as George Carlin fans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Egm0j_p1A

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And to think the vets signed their lives away to the services to fight and die for these people. I've said it before, but anyone who enlists nowdays is a fool.

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My partner and I own and live in a house 5 blocks away from the proposed location. I welcome the center. I was appalled last night to learn how many of my neighbors are liberal in name only. Crime and homeless issues in downtown Little Rock aren't the fault of VA. It's the fault of unresponsive city government and their supporters, some of whom live in Quapaw Quarter and SOMA. I have called 911 multiple times for drug dealings, cars being set on fire (twice last year), bricks thrown into cars (mine included), irate ex-husband threatening his ex-wife and kids, etc. I have never had police show up within an hour. It usually takes them 1.5 hours to show up. This is despite the fact that there is a police station on Cumberland and Capitol. We recently had a neighbor whose neck was slashed as he chased a drug dealer off of our street. Our neighbor wouldn't have had to take matters into his own hands if police actually show up when we call, and residents hadn't given up on calling them. Last year a stranger broke into my house at 11:30 pm at night. My partner was out of town, and I was home alone (and female). Fortunately, I scared him off, but I didn't bother calling the police. What would they do? File a report? After someone threw a brick into my car, my partner and I decided to leave our cars unlocked with no valuables inside. We now have folks sleeping in our car in the middle of the night. If we lock our cars, our windows get smashed. If we don't lock our cars, we have people sleeping inside our car. What would LRPD do? Come and check on our neighborhood a couple of times a week? I blame the city government for crime and homeless issues in downtown Little Rock. Perhaps Mayor Mark "Crime Fighting" Stodola can increase police presence and protection in our neighborhood. Maybe he can work on providing solutions for the city's homeless issues. I welcome the center since I believe it would contribute to solving some of the issues facing downtown. I'm doing my part. I hope the city government does its part to address crime and homelessness one of these days. I'm also frustrated at organizations that purport to support downtown but don't pressure the city to provide increased security. Perhaps QQA, DNA, and SOMA can pressure the city to increase security instead of focusing so much on financial and development opportunities (not to mention their obsession with historic preservation which does nada for neighborhood safety but creates hurdles for homeowners like me). I'd rather have a VA facility as my neighbor than some of these organizations that appear to care more about the Stephens Group and making the area look historic than people who live and work in downtown. What outrages me is that Occupy Little Rock gets 24-hour police watch, with a police car parked on an abandoned gas station on the corner of Capitol and Ferry, for exercising their 1st Amendment right. Why can't nearby neighbors get police protection from drug dealers? We deserve better than this.

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They're good enough to die for our country, but not good enough to be in our neighborhoods. Classic.

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As a 28-year veteran (both active and reserve duty), you don't sign that contract and take that oath simply for the benefits you might accrue some day...

As for mixing the city homeless center with the VA Service Center, it's like oil and water... it simply won't mix well. I would rather see the entire length of Main Street lined with service centers like that rather than the weedy, gravel-filled and otherwise empty lots that the Stephens bunch seem to be redeveloping it with, or parking lots.

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Correct if I'm wrong. I thought the center would cater to Vets but would not turn anyone down, meaning non-vets?

I'm so torn on this. I support the main street revival and want more businesses to occupy those empty buildings. I think this clinic would keep new business from moving in.
Pretty soon other businesses will start moving out too (government offices are already wanting to re-locate to WLR). Then we will be stuck with a sad and empty downtown.

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ADOGNAMEDSTEVE,

An early newspaper report which I repeated said erroneously that a vets center would feed any who came, vet or not. I was informed very explicitly that that was NOT the case. The vets center may only serve vets.

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I bet there's a remote 60 acres in the Delta that could be bought for a song. Every city in Arkansas could load up their unwanted and bus them to a new internment camp, Camp Delta, which wouldn't be in anyone's back yard.

Put an electric fence around it, air drop a bunch of FEMA trailers, contract with Swanson for a dump truck load of TV dinners each day and problem solved! To solve the Vet problem in the future, refuse to let any relative you got join the military, chain them in the basement if necessary. That'll nip that in the bud.

As for the street people, hand out bottled water laced with Ecstasy and they'll eat out of your hand. Forced sterilization....well....we'll discuss that in another chapter.

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adognamedsteve,

First Presbyterian Church has been serving hot food to homeless for who knows how many years on 8th and Main, and that didn't stop The Green Corner Store, The Root Cafe, Boulevard Bread, and USA Drug from establishing business in SOMA. I didn't notice vehement opposition from downtown residents when the Wolfe Street Foundation moved into the old Heifer Foundation building on 10th and Louisiana. Why is DNA so opposed to VA? Because it serves veterans in need? Someone at the meeting last night mentioned that the VA center may be an eyesore to people who visit Little Rock. I find the vacant Cook Jeep lot as an eyesore. If the center moves in to the lot, its employees will spend money in our neighborhood. I support the move. I also support changing zoning codes so that we can achieve equitable distribution of facilities that serve people in need. I support increased funding for public transit so that no veteran would have to spend over an hour on bus to get from west Little Rock to downtown to receive care. (I used to ride CATA's West Markham line, so I know. Try going from downtown to west Little Rock. Depending on destinations, it takes close to 2 hours, with transfers and all.) Little Rock's underfunded public transportation and inequitable zoning codes are not VA's fault. It's our fault for electing policymakers who don't do anything about them.

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DBI, I hear there's some land near Rohwer and/or Jerome (locals already used to having "undesirables" nearby).

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I was at the meeting last night and I live Downtown. I was almost persuaded on the VA's opening remarks about how the center is not a shelter and not a soup kitchen and how they offered vouchers for people to have a place to say. But then they had one of the veterans who uses the center get up and tell his story. He had straightened himself out and got off drugs and has a place to stay now. It was a great testimony about how the center helps vets. The problem was he also talked about the process and how he was homeless for years earlier and would frequent the center every day. He had to overcome drug problems. He got a place to stay but was then kicked out for some “problems” and was back on the streets at the center. The center helps trouble veterans become get back on their feet. But it’s the troubled, sometimes dangerous ones that are still have old habits that congregate around the center. This is fine during business hours between 7 and 2 when they can get the help and services they need but they don’t leave after the center closes. They stay in the area and now have nowhere to go to get the help. And if the greater-than-thou people of the neighborhoods up the hill think it’s a travesty that we downtown folks are opposed to the center, please make the VA an offer to put it in your neighborhood. I’m sure it would be a great addition on Kavanaugh.

GreenAr BTD, I’m assuming you are referring to my comment where I asked how the VA would approach the location as being the first thing on Main Street that people see. There was no mention of it being an “eyesore”. I truly wanted to know what considerations the VA has given to this being such a prime spot of real estate into downtown. The cook dealership is ugly. But if the VA is planning on using the building and site as is, it will not be any better. This is a gateway to an area the neighborhood wants to see revitalized. There are a lot of things that don’t need to go there and VA center is one of them.

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While I don't have a dog in this fight, my understanding is that this is NOT A SHELTER. It's a clinic, just as the various clinics located in the ground floor of the VA or the psychiatric clinic on the UAMS campus -- no overnight use.
If the issue is that meals may be served, I can tell you that almost every time my husband goes to the VA for medical attention, he is given a meal voucher. Why? Either because he has been instructed not to eat before he comes in or he has to remain at the clinic during lunch time. It's standard practice and doesn't mean he's going to get falling down drunk, urinate on somebody's rose bushes and crawl into their car to sleep it off.
Stand back a bit and take a good look at the situation.
I will add, as someone above noted, that the idea of combining a homeless shelter -- a real one -- and this clinic is a bad idea. Could be that's the one of the reasons the unit wants/needs to move, and has for a long time.
And LR pouring money down that rat hole out near Granite Mountain is beyond bad. It's pure idiocy. Sleeping quarters in the basement? Sounds like a death trap. Ooooh ...

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Thanks for the clarification.

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Our conservative trolls will be cheered that there are few, if any Samaritans living in the Downtown Neighborhood area.

The rest if us can cynically refresh our belief set that few of those frequently promoting Christian values and life also don't live in the Downtown Neighborhood area or at least only wish to talk about Christian values or lifestyle not living it. They forget Luke 6:24-36 and especially Luke 6:31.

Sorry, Norma. I know your predilections on the subject, but some of us, even when we were in our atheist or agnostic periods believed Luke 6:31 was a pretty good rule to live by . . . no mater what translation you used. The mealy-mouth "sunshine" Christian values of some do not stand up to scrutiny.

In any case, the espousing of the "No Dogs or Veterans on the Grass (or our neighborhood)" by residents, state media, and city officials is a sad commentary on the state of the "Greatest Nation in the World," isn't it.

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This has convinced me that I need to get more involved in my neighborhood association. The NIMBY attitude of my neighbors is appalling. The concerns about the liquor store in the vicinity are particularly offensive.

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My wife and I have an Operation Iraqi Freedom vet staying with us. He's one of the best roomers we've ever had. Shame on the DNA for not giving them as much a chance as we did.

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What have we become as a country when we will not take care of our veterans? What have we become as a country when we won't take care of any homeless, suffering people? Shame on those people from the DNA who opposed this. I would bet than many of them consider themselves to be liberal enlightened citizens. Please tell me how the clients are going to harm them.

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"Why not let the shelter locate next to your home? If you don't want it there, why not?. transportation could be provided anywhere in the city if needed."


Services for those with the needs that frequent the VA center would be near the VA center. If a homeowner complains of the transients that are there, then they need to move out to the middle of no-where where they won't be bothered by anyone they don't deem like them or univited.

Bus transportation hubs are in downtown LR. A VA center could be near my home but there's no services their many other needs. There is no bus service to my neighborhood. Even if they got there, how would they travel to work? Transportation is needed and it is left wanting.

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"(If the City of Little Rock Zoning Plan includes a zone for urinating-feces throwing-needle sticking, then I apologize for my question. That is where the clinic should go.)"

Someplace far away where you can ignore the problem I'd imagine

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GreenAR by day is tops.

Problems of crime generated by the perceived or actual affects of homeless citizens is the job of enforcement. The other piece of the puzzle to to provide rehab services for those geniunly needing it.

__

"Pretty soon other businesses will start moving out too (government offices are already wanting to re-locate to WLR)."

That is grim to think about. Government offices moving from city center where those on foot can access their services. I believe part of the reason the bus service hub is where it is is so those without a car can get to a somewhat central area to handle business. If the government services spread out I fear the bus services will not be able to.


__

I read in the ARDG that the owner of Fuller and Son did more complaining. ( valid complaints I agree ). He complained about homeless citizens sleeping on their property and burning their lumber to keep warm. Ok, they have to keep warm. One city warming center in an area not serviced by the buses is not an answer. Opportunity for city to respond here and by response I don't mean armed police guard around Fuller and Son HW.

Still deciding if I'll add them to the Chik-filet, Lowes and Koch owned business boycott.
_______


"if the greater-than-thou people of the neighborhoods up the hill think it’s a travesty that we downtown folks are opposed to the center, please make the VA an offer to put it in your neighborhood. "

Sure, if there are other services nearby ( or transportation to ) that are commensurate with their other day by day needs. OTherwise it would be an exercise in inefficiency. I've admired DNA residents - still do somewhat. It seems DNA is establishing itself in an area that already had homeless citizens with needs long before they showed up. I would consider it part of the territory.


_______

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Finally, given his voting record against programs and services that service the depressed and unfortunate I don't buy Griffins concern. I think its election day brownie points he's after.

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Spunkrat, you asked: "For those of you who do portray downtown people as "dicks" or whatever else, why not let the shelter locate next to your home? If you don't want it there, why not?" Then you added this nugget: "And the argument 'locate shelters where the homeless are' is ineffective because transportation could be provided anywhere in the city if needed."

Ha! I always love it when, during a discussion, one party thinks he/she gets to decide the parameters for the other party's response. Perhaps you run your home with an iron fist, but you don't run the AT discussion with one.

So, first: Absolutely, the services should be brought to the people.

Second: I couldn't care less about your plight to revitalize or renew the neighborhood. I would call what you're doing 'gentrification,' and I don't think gentrification is a good thing. In sociology, there's a phenomenon we call 'appropriation and commodification.' What that means, in essence, is this: One party sees something it likes, takes it, assigns a value to it, and then sells it with a new price tag. You gentrifiers downtown are engaged in such a practice. It is deplorable.

There's nothing at all wrong with you wanting to live downtown. But the homeless people were there before you. They have a stake in downtown. Further, because buses run downtown, major roads start and end downtown, the bus terminal is located near downtown, shelters operate downtown, etc., downtown is the epicenter of the city's homeless population.

You ask, "why not let the shelter locate next to your home?" Well, for starters, the shelter would have no interest locating next to my house. See, I chose to live in a residential neighborhood. I didn't choose to appropriate, commodify, and gentrify someone else's home. You did. So you live with the consequences.

Or, option B: Recognize that you've deliberately chosen to live in an area populated by homeless people. Recognize that you've deliberately chosen to live the city's transportation center. Be comfortable with that. Try to find some kindness in your heart for the people you've displaced.

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mr. green has made above one of of the most cogent, intelligent statements that we have read on this subject tonight. His point is that the gentry who want to move into depressed downtown areas can not then try to take these areas away from the people who lived there before them. They must accept the areas as they are, and not as they would like to make them. His comments make more sense than any other I have read above.

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When Griffin drapes his shoulders with the flag and spews patriotic homilies, I hope some vet breaks his nose.

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I assume that those who oppose this move have never struggled with a mental illness. This is based on all the negative, ignorant, and cruel remarks made regarding our Veterans that are seeking compassion and assistance. Perhaps people who oppose the move have managed to make it through their privileged lives with out a loved one being afflicted with addiction. I would also conclude, based on the heartless comments made about our Veterans, that those who oppose this move, have never lost a job or been plagued with a serious illness that led to a disability. It is beyond me how anyone can put the perceived worth of a neighborhood above the worth of a human being. I encourage anyone who does not support this move to take the time to get to know some Veterans who don't have a home. They are not "scary, crazy, violent, etc." as people are trying to label them. They are just people. They share many of your same values, have similar interests, hopes and dreams, and yes, some of your faults as well. Ignorance breeds fear. Educate yourself, and I don't mean by reading these articles, or books on homelessness. I mean go meet some Veterans who are homeless. Many comments made by folks who live in the Main Street area assert that if you don't live in the neighborhood, then you don't have a right to have an opinion on this issue. Well I say, if you haven't spent time with Veterans who are without a home, then you shouldn't get a say on this issue.

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Mr. Green:
You sound pretty iron fisty to me...but since you and I BOTH decided to live in a residential neighborhood (I don't live downtown or in Quapaw as I originally stated, but you apparently don't read), I'd ask you why you chose to not live in that area. Is it because you don't want those same people near you? Because, I'm brave enough to say it. I don't want to live in an area full of the homeless. Do I donate and let others? Yes, just like many of the rest of you do.

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@go west, And how will the Vets, that use the food kitchens and shelters already in downtown, get to a VA center and Day Center on Chenal?

I'll say it too rat, one reason I choose not to live downtown is because I do not want to live an area where there are homeless. So, what to do with them? Cart them off to a far away deserted place and hope they don't come back? Or make it so uninviting to them downtown that they leave and go somewhere else? Or maybe they'll just disappear and we can all feel good about ourselves at the end of the day?

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Why Downtown is not a place for a clinic like that! That kind of clinic for the homeless should be out in Western Little Rock in Chenal where there is little bus service and you have to drive 5-7 miles before you even reach I-430. Yeah, that's where it should be! The real estate taxes out there are really expensive too - that would be better for the homeless shelter to have to pay more taxes. Or maybe a little closer in like in the upper Heights where the price per square foot of a house is $200+. That would make sense - no? Or Hillcrest - oh they already have the State Hospital - put it there! No way Hillcrest is bearing its fair share. :) Last I looked 10th and Main is near a freeway and is on the edge of the The Pulaski Empowerment Zone designation which receives federal tax incentives. Sounds like the perfect place for a clinic as described.

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Laughing at the notion that the future Veterans Administration Day Services Center (it is NOT a homeless shelter) will not be a good "front door" to Main Street. Absurd.

Besser Hardware has been an ugly eyesore at that corner across from old Cook Jeep for decades. They've done some clean-up on the lot, but it's not an attractive "welcome to Main Street" first impression. Many old shuttered buildings are on highly visible street corners downtown and everyone just drives by as usual.

Seems to me if you photoshop the pic above from the meeting, color-in some dirt on faces, put worn clothes and shoes on all, mess up the ladies' hair-dos and apply a week's beard growth to the men, you wouldn't be able to tell the homeless American Veterans deserving a convenient services location from those who think they are "too good for THOSE kinds of people."

Perhaps it's time for the Mayor, Congressman, QQA, DNA, SOMA, snooty business people, and nearby residents opposing this Veterans DAY Service Center to realize . . .
but for the Grace of God . . .

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"Dr. Margie Scott, VA chief of staff, apologized to Stodola for not meeting with him about the RFP." This (apologizing after the fact) is absolutely Dr. Scott's M.O. - she is NOT to be trusted. Ask anyone who has dealing with the VA and you will get an earful about her.

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Why not hold this clinic at the VA hospital on 7th St., near UAMS? Or at the VA facility in N. Little Rock? Why is a new property needed?

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The idea that something "undesirable" should be placed in one neighborhood over another is inherently bigoted.

And this whole argument smacks of separate but equal: "oh, helping vets is a good thing, but there are more appropriate locations." Yes Mr/Ms. Veteran, feel free to better your life and work toward your goals, but don't do it in the neighborhood where I am trying to better my life and work toward my goals." Shades of 1957, anyone?

There's more than one way for a healthy, sustainable city to develop. If downtown is too delicate to absorb a VA Center, who wants that kind of downtown? I don't want to live in a whitewashed, plastic city. There are plenty of "new urbanism" escapist projects if you seek a constructed, controlled town center. Midtown subdivision in Bryant comes immediately to mind. If you can't handle the VA Center, perhaps you should relocate your business/residence in Midtown? Helps me out. I'd prefer not to inadvertently patronize bigot-owned businesses, and I work, eat, shop, drink and live downtown.

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