Tuesday, January 24, 2012
Taxes / Presidential politics Mitt Romney's tax rate: 13.9 percent
Posted by Max Brantley on Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 6:32 AM
Mitt Romney released a couple of years of tax returns last night.
He's rich. He gives a lot of money to the Mormon church. His income tax rate on his $21 million in income in 2010 was 13.9 percent. (Over two years, he paid $6.2 million in taxes on $45.2 million income.) He's a great beneficiary of the Republican tax policy of taxing work not wealth. Dividends and capital gains get a preferential low tax rate. (And it really has boosted the economy, hasn't it?) If you get most of your income from work, your rate is a good deal higher.
Take a look at your own tax return some time and divide your gross income by your federal tax bill and see if you pay more, proportionately, than Mitt Romney. The harder you work and the less you make, the more likely it is that you do. (I was at 23 percent last year.)
More here from the New York Times. His holdings have included money in Switzerland, Bermuda and the Cayman Islands.
My instant take is that this isn't much of an issue for Romney in the Republican primary. He's always been rich. And unlikable to the majority of Republican primary voters.
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Comments (33)
Showing 1-33 of 33
To paraphrase another blog, "Who knew being unemployed could be so lucrative?"
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Keep in mind that this is Mitt's return from after years of grooming himself to run for the Presidency. Surely he knew this was coming, and made it look as palatable as possible.
How about his return from 1995?
Gosh, only $21 million in a year! Bubba made over $70 million in one year for speaking engagements. However, bubba, while paying his legal share of taxes, also believed he should pay more but didn't. I guess that spells the difference between a 'good' rich guy and a 'bad' rich guy. It Mitt had only said that he should pay more then he would have been a 'good' rich guy. You got to master the 'correct' way of thinking before you can understand these things.
"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."---Leona Helmsley
While we eat our cake.
Yes, given that there is no law against paying the IRS extra, there may be a difference between claiming one believes "he should pay more" and actually believing that.
I guess the latter would be accompanied with a check.
" He's a great beneficiary of the Republican tax policy of taxing work not wealth."
That's catchy.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on the Buffets and the bubba's to write those checks. Talk is cheap!
I still can't find the early morning open thread. Norma, do you know where it is?
Dave Neiwert reports on the terrorist in Pope County. Scroll down to the excerpts from Neiwert's book, "The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized the American Right." I recall a certain presidential candidate (noot) saying in the 90's that "liberals are the enemy of normal Americans".
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/ju…
Hey Sherlock, why don't you write them a check rather than complain about what someone else is doing. President Clinton (to you, not bubba)did pay a higher rate since he actually had to do something to earn the money while Romney just played at his houses. Clinton still paid at twice the rate that Romney did. Now, find another cause because that one is just garbage. And write your check to compensate for Romney's good luck to be a member of The Lucky Sperm Club.
If you want President Clintion to pay more than change the tax rates back to what they were when he was president and the economy was good, jobs were plentiful, and the only right wing nuts were on Slush Lumberger's show rather than lying on talk radio and the ReTHUGlican TV network which acts like it actually does news-FAUX. And get rid of that millionaires rate of 15% AND PUT EVERYONE ON THE HOOK FOR ALL OF THEIR INCOME FOR INCOME TAX, SOCIAL SECURITY, AND MEDICARE.
First of all, I didn't shoot my big mouth off about wanting to pay more taxes. I'm not rich. Also, since you have not seen bubba's tax returns, you can safely surmise that he took every deduction he could get away with. He just likes to be the center of attention and milk the media for everything that he can get. Talk doesn't cost anything. This sells to the left and he caters to them. He , Buffet and the GE mogul milk the system and pander to the 'little people'. As I said before, there are the 'good' rich and the 'bad' rich. Depends on your ideology.
StupidHolmes: "he took every deduction he could get away with"
So did I. And almost every other person you know. If you didn't take all the deductions you're eligible for you're an idiot. or Rethuglican. Pretty much the same.
This debate is not about taxes per se. This debate is about a deficit so large it is going to break the country. We can't go on borrowing money, printing money, at this rate. Taxes are simply a means to an end. Sure no one wants to pay taxes. No one wants to pay for services for the other guy. Everyone wants the services they believe in. This is not about taxes, it's about compromise.
I don't envy the rich. Most of the ones I know aren't any fun to begin with; greedy, self absorbed, childish bores. This is about engaging in these stupid meaningless debates instead of solving our problems. 13 percent won't get it from a multi millionare.
Romneys tax rates are in-line with expectations. I agree with comments above, that it is not the amount of wealth or income. It is the idea that this group needs additional tax cuts to aid in creating jobs. Our tax rates, from a corporate, and personal income tax rate level is the lowest in decades and the trickle-down theory has failed.
This deep recession is a huge cause for the lagging recover, yet it is recovering and hopefully will continue. We cannot allow these nimrods to shanghai the discussion and once again hand over(or allow them to keep) the driving wheel. We have given corporate America and the HNW folks alot and what do we have in return? Massive deficits, widening of rich versus poor as the shift of these failed policies shift to those that can least afford it.
What would Jesus say to our approach of taxing work, not wealth?
Of taxing a working man's sweat at a higher rate than a multi-millionaire's inheritance?
Of incenting the working man to work harder to become wealthy by telling him that if he can't afford health insurance, his children will just have to die?
Jesus never saw poverty as a character defect. He saw it for what it is.
These numbers inject a badly needed does of reality into the political debate. We have known all along that the tax system is a scam favoring the rich but now we have a concrete example with concrete numbers that every American can compare their own taxes to. This will be interesting.Btw my tax rate is higher than Romney's.
Oh and if we added state and local taxes, the result would probably be even more striking.
"We have given corporate America and the HNW folks alot ..."
Yapper, we may be witnessing the death of our long, unrequited love affair with corporate America. We have behaved like an abused wife who believes the abuser who tells her it is all her fault. If only we were smarter or worked harder, we too could be like Mitt or Newt and they would love us.
Last night's pissing contest was pathetic. Newt was neutered without his blood lusting, neo-confederate Greek chorus out of South Carolina. Romney took the advice of the pundits and came out of his corner punching. What their base wants is not the one with the biggest dick, but the one who can be the biggest dick. Romney tried.
I honestly want Mitt to get the nomination. Just in case something happenings to cause the American electorate to lose its collective shit and elect a Republican, I would rather Romney, the least crazy and evil of the bunch, to be in charge.
If we keep lurching along in our slow recovery, President Obama will beat either in the general. The only thing that can stop Obama is something like a European financial meltdown that rolls across the Atlantic or a terrorist attack along the lines of September 11th.
We can't afford Social Security, we can't afford Medicare blah, blah, blah, blah. Romney made 21 million and paid not a penny into either program.
If the rich paid their fail share we wouldn't have these problems. It's time to separate these programs from being exclusively funded by earned income.
"Render onto Caesar, the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." If God's tithe is 10%, then Caesar got shortchanged.
Those yelling about "class warfare" have no problem
using "classes" of income to their benefit. There should be ONE CLASS OF INCOME.
By classifying income you get class warfare. Who classified income?
What if the old "flat tax" was instituted and taxed ALL INCOME at 20% across the board?
Now you 'flat-tax' enthusiasts will see why the idea will not be allowed to get traction.
.
>>First of all, I didn't shoot my big mouth off about wanting to pay more taxes.<<
Show us where Clinton, Buffett or Soros did? Sounds like you got some wealth envy going on. All of those leaders complained about the "unfairness" of our current system and used their own situations to show how grossly unfair it is.
Recognizing unfairness of a system of discrimination against wage earners is hardly
'shooting one's mouth off..wanting to pay more taxes.'
Weak spin and your wheel hit "Bankrupt."
Ha. You can bet any "flat tax" would tax work at one level and wealth at a lower level.
There is no way that the 1% who own and operate our government would accept having the income from their investments taxed at the same rate as income from our 40 hour work weeks.
That's what we used to do, and it caused things like balanced budgets, and balanced budgets create no political advantage for the opposition.
Maybe Max doesn't understand taxes. Money that Romney earned as income would be taxed at 35%. After the money is taxed and invested he pays another 15%
So his gross tax rate is closer to 50% than 15%, less whatever deductions.
Based on the published tax rate of 13.9% He paid almost $3,000,000 in taxes.
How much did you pay?
eL - since I'm working, splain "carry interest" to these folks.
"All of those leaders complained about the "unfairness" of our current system and used their own situations to show how grossly unfair it is."
Yes, they complained about unfairness and that they should be paying more. They just wanted to talk about it without having to cough up more tax money. After all, they aren't stupid.
>>Yes, they complained about unfairness and that they should be paying more. <<
weak spin. The pointer remains on bankrupt.
They said EVERYONE LIKE THEM should be paying more. For only two or three to pay more would continue the Republican scheme of Unfair taxation.
>>Maybe Max doesn't understand taxes. Money that Romney earned as income would be taxed at 35%. After the money is taxed and invested he pays another 15%
So his gross tax rate is closer to 50% than 15%, less whatever deductions.<<
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This Is Why You Never Want a Republican in Charge of Any Economy.
It should be self-evident that Romney doesn't "earn" in the conventional sense. He bought companies and resold them. That's called capital gains income, another "class" of income that was deemed a special class of income for tax purposes, i.e., it's taxed at a lower rate. His skill was a confidence game of raising large amounts from other "investors" to takeover companies. If he took his income in anything other than equity he would be foolish.
Today Romney doesn't "earn" anything in the conventional sense. He gets investment income in the form of capital gains and flow-thru carried interest.
Carried interest or carry, in finance, specifically in alternative investment management, is a share of the profits of a successful investment partnership that is paid to the investment manager of the partnership (a private equity fund or hedge fund) as a form of compensation that is designed as an incentive to the manager to maximize performance of the investment fund. In a hedge fund environment, carried interest is usually referred to as a "performance fee". A manager's carried-interest allocation is in addition to any investment that the manager may have in the private equity fund or hedge fund.
....
Because the manager is compensated with a profits interest in the fund, the bulk of his or her income from the fund is taxed, not as compensation for services, but as a return on investment. Typically, when a partner receives a profits interest (commonly referred to as a "carried interest"), the partner is not taxed upon receipt, due to the difficulty of ascertaining the present value of an interest in future profits.[8] Instead, the partner is taxed as the partnership earns income. In the case of a hedge fund, this means that the partner defers taxation on the income that the hedge fund earns, which is typically ordinary income (or possibly short-term capital gains), due to the nature of the investments most hedge funds make. Private equity funds, however, typically invest on a longer horizon, with the result that income earned by the funds is long-term capital gain, taxable to individuals at a maximum 15% rate.
--wikipedia
" income earned by the funds is long-term capital gain, taxable to individuals at a maximum 15% rate."
" income earned by the funds is long-term capital gain, taxable to individuals at a maximum 15% rate."
There is nothing 'weak' and there is no 'spin' in pointing out when someone says one thing and does something else. Using as an excuse that he isn't going to do it until everyone else does won't wash. It is just that an 'excuse'. He knows that he can get brownie points with the media for proclaiming his indignation with this unfairness while being assured that it won't cost him anything. If you are a true leader, you do what is right without waiting for others to join you. He is no leader only a hypocrite!
Blue
You are adding two different numbers.
Earn $1 million
taxed $350,000
Invest $650,000 (income after taxes) make 10% return of $65,000 capital gains taxed at 15% is $9,750.
So total tax is $359,750
Not 350,000 + 150,000 = 500,000 (50% you claim)
33.779% is a bit different than 50% in Reality Based Land.
Sherlock, the SYSTEM is wrong and if I pay 100% of my income, it will still be a rounding error on Romney's taxes. The system was set up by RICH congress critters for themselves and their rich friends. Their income from investments hasn't created any new jobs but sure as hell as destroyed many existing jobs. Romney is a slash and burn capitalist-waiting 1 year and 1 day before destroying the companies so the income is long term capital gains. Maybe just redefining "long term" to mean 5 years would straighten out a lot of the financial games. Right now, the biggest crooks are sitting in the House and Senate and we keep giving them the keys to come and go as they please.
Many a few years ago, the Canadian railroads wanted to stop all passenger service because it intererred with the profit they were making off their freight business. Canada passed a law that said that if you want to eliminate any passenger service, you had to file a request and wait 8 years for approval. Guess what-they decided that they might as well make their passenger service a profit center. They just had to change the parameters and that is what needs to be done here on "capital gains".
"Money that Romney earned as income would be taxed at 35%. After the money is taxed and invested he pays another 15%. So his gross tax rate is closer to 50% than 15%"
Complete nonsense. Not even Romney himself makes such an absurd claim.
Worthwhile pointing out that 13 of Romney's 42 million unearned income were so-called carried interest, which isn't even interest from his own investment. It's the hedge fund manager loop hole that Republicans have fought tooth and nail to preserve: commissions that money managers receive without putting up any of their own investment money but still get special treatment.
Romney is the walking illustration of everything Occupy Wall Street has ever said.
Btw George Bush Jr was another magician of carried interest. David Johnston details this in his excellent book Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense (and Stick You with the Bill) (http://www.amazon.com/Free-Lunch-Wealthies…). One of Bush's few successful business ventures, a deal involving some sports stadium somewhere in Texas, consisted in funneling public money paid by tax-payers into his and his partners' pockets and then having it taxed at a low rate as carried interest even though he hadn't put up any of his own money as investment. Highly recommended reading.l
S(NotSherlock)Holmes, as usual, your brown eyes are showing: "Bubba (I assume you mean President Bill Clinton and not Leroy Newton "Poot" Gingrinch) made over $70 million in one year for speaking engagements." Care to prove that, my friend? No, I didn't think so. Because it is simply a lie, a pure fabrication. You and Leroy Newton "Poot" have lots in common, a lack of veracity being chief among them.
What, math isn't your strongest suit you say? Or the truth?
You're not only not rich in monetary terms, you're not rich in ideas or the truth either.
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