http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2012/02/15/lyons-on-the-catholic-churchs-power-play-on-the-pill Comments On: Lyons on the Catholic Church's power play on The Pill by Max Brantley en-us Copyright 2013 Arkansas Times. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, Arkansas Times readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact Arkansas Times. robert@arktimes.com (Arkansas Times Webmaster) Fri, 24 May 2013 00:00:01 -0500 Fri, 24 May 2013 21:00:00 -0500 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss
"What's fascinating to me about this is that this issue is catching on among evangelicals, long after most Catholics have moved on. So my bet is that Santorum will gain many evangelical votes on this issue, giving him new momentum in the primary race, especially against the Mormon whose Obamneycare was more liberal on contraception than Obama's compromise!

So Santorum could win the primary on an issue that guarantees him a landslide loss in the fall. The Christianists and theocons have over-reached - and the far right in the Congress is playing along too, further entrenching the view that the GOP is anti-contraception. Obama meanwhile seems like the sane compromiser who cares about women voters."

The posting is here: http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/20…
Posted by William D. Lindsey]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:55:43 -0600 Arkansas Times
What do articles of faith have to do with this discussion? The Catholic teaching about contraception is not an article of faith. It has not been declared infallible. The encyclical "Humanae Vitae" dates from 1968.

And what on earth does scripture have to do with contraception? As well as I recall, it never even mentions the subject.

Why do I keep getting the feeling that you have no clue what you're talking about here?

And that your agenda has nothing at all to do with defending freedom of religion.

A minority doesn't get to impose its moral or religious views on a majority in a pluralistic secular democracy simply because that minority keeps screaming that what it believes is right and biblically based or grounded in long tradition (and the Catholic teaching on contraception is none of the above).

As Gene Lyons says, that's the very antithesis of religious freedom.

Please stop defending yourself by defending a "Catholic" teaching that the vast majority of Catholics have long since rejected, with good reason.

Your agenda clearly has nothing to do with these issues about which you're utterly ill-informed.
Posted by William D. Lindsey]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:45:39 -0600 Arkansas Times
Good grief. Even the biblical canon was not determined without majority rule.

Wake up. Or shut up.

Please.

"Absolute majority"? Well of course not.

In this country we make decisions by "majority rule." But that means only the majority of those who actually vote.

Do we EVER have a majority of registered voters actually voting in any election?

So the rule is made by the majority of the minority who actually vote. In which case, we actually have "minority rule." But at least its a majority of the minority.

IMHO

Posted by SkyPilot]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:16:13 -0600 Arkansas Times
Should religious institutions that believe no woman should hold authority over any man be excused from anti-discrimination laws, on first amendment grounds? What about that Curse of Ham thing?

I think the Supreme Court has tried to strike a balance that allows the church school or hospital to impose its views on those whose job is central to the religious mission... but denying contraception to the janitorial staff, the grounds crew, the teachers, the nurses.... I dunno about that.

Posted by Tap]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:01:19 -0600 Arkansas Times Posted by SHolmes]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 17:25:39 -0600 Arkansas Times
I also like what he wrote several days ago about the misplaced obsession of the Catholic bishops with the sex lives of others:

"Where were they when the Bush administration was practizing and authorizing the torture and abuse and robbing of human dignity of terror suspects? The Pope never obliquely mentioned these categorical evils when visiting the US and cozying up to the war criminals in the Bush administration?

Where have they been on tackling climate change - a sacred obligation for Catholics according to the Pope they follow so fanatically?

Why so utterly fixated on sex, especially the sex lives of women and gay men? Why so utterly indifferent to the whole range of public policies which Catholic orthodoxy has strong views on?"

And he concludes, "They have become the Pharisees. And we need Jesus."

See http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/20…
Posted by William D. Lindsey]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 17:14:16 -0600 Arkansas Times
"As for politics, the Republican fusion with the Vatican is also, it seems to me, a terrible mistake for the party. Obama’s greatest skill is in getting his opponents to overreach and self-destruct. And this issue could not be more tailor-made to benefit the candidate with real potential pull with far-right-wing Catholics and evangelicals: Santorum."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012…


Posted by Norma Bates]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:23:25 -0600 Arkansas Times
First, you are explicitly disagreeing with Cardinal John Henry Newman on this point. As he notes, an essential element of the truth claims of the church's teaching is the reception of those teachings by the faithful. When over 90% of the faithful have consistently rejected a moral teaching for decades now due to the judgments of their informed consciences, it's impossible to see how this teaching can be "true."

Second, I seem to recall Jesus saying something like, "Come unto me, ALL YOU who labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest."

Third, the early Christian movement was radically egalitarian, because it enshrined the memory of Jesus's radical egalitarianism, which created shockwaves in the society in which he lived, because he deliberately chose to practice table fellowship with those regarded as the lowest of the low in his society--including women, a step other rabbis did not take.

One scripture scholar after another maintains that the primary reason the Romans executed Jesus on a charge of capital punishment was that they feared the effects of that kind of radical egalitarianism, which erased hierarchical distinctions between males and females, Greeks and Jews, and slaves and free persons, on their society.

To the extent that any Christian churches have lost sight of the radical egalitarianism of Jesus and the movement that sprang from him, they've lost sight of what is absolutely essential vis-a-vis the memory of Jesus.
Posted by William D. Lindsey]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:51:26 -0600 Arkansas Times Posted by MarcKyle64]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:43:03 -0600 Arkansas Times
Pray that the Catholic Church will sever the shackles of government money / tax-free status (same thing) and free itself to continue its good works whilst keeping its faith.

Amen.


Posted by Norma Bates]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:37:55 -0600 Arkansas Times
Tell that to Galileo and the Jews (I believe it's only recently that they have been absolved of guilt as the killers of Christ).
Posted by the outlier]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:19:12 -0600 Arkansas Times Posted by luke4]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:13:40 -0600 Arkansas Times
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/15/a…


Posted by Norma Bates]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:39:15 -0600 Arkansas Times
"In the midst of dire economic circumstances, why do they expend inordinate energy brooding over contraception, abortion, abstinence education, gay marriage and so forth and attempt to transform their obsessions into law?"

http://www.truth-out.org/right-wing-id-unz…

"The right-wing Id unzipped."


Posted by Norma Bates]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:32:32 -0600 Arkansas Times
November, get back on your meds.

And Holmes-boy, you too can be one of those 47% who don't earn enough, are children (well, maybe not become one of those, although in a mental sense you are), or are retired with no taxable income. Try it yourself if it is so wonderful. Kwit yer bitching!
Posted by Sound Policy]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:27:07 -0600 Arkansas Times
One is appalled, Catholic-like but for different reasons, at your Razorbaby-shared Santorum-approved ad depicting graphic excrementous assault by a Romney lookalike, subliminally scripted around the threadbare centuries-old victimy Catholic meme (besieged by those shitty Mormons, this time).

Appalled and disgusted.

On the bright side, one's heretofore near-limitless affection for you has finally slipped the surly bonds of earth. Let the eagle soar and stuff.


Posted by Norma Bates]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:24:43 -0600 Arkansas Times http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/02/15…

Catholic voters are breaking with the Church’s opposition to insurance coverage of contraception, the latest New York Times/CBS News poll finds. Sixty-five percent of voters — including a majority of Catholics — “said they supported the Obama administration’s requirement that health insurance plans cover the cost of birth control, and 59 percent, said the health insurance plans of religiously affiliated employers should cover the cost of birth control.” A Public Policy Polling survey conducted on Friday similarly found that 57 percent of Catholic voters — and 59 percent of Catholic women — support the requirement. Under the administration’s policy, “women who work for institutions like Catholic hospitals and universities can obtain birth control from their insurance company without a co-pay, but their employers don’t have to include contraception in their healthcare plans.”
Posted by Arkie]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:56:51 -0600 Arkansas Times
When almost every European nation with a Catholic majority long since covered contraceptives in their nationalized healthcare plans--with nary a peep from any of their Catholic bishops' conferences.

Italy is among those nations. Never a peep from the pope and Vatican about this.

Why the sudden furor over this in the U.S. with the Catholic bishops as the elections approach, one wonders? When the mandates for contraceptive coverage have been in place since 2000--under Bush?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Just as they want to know what kind of "Catholics" would ever imagine that following the dictate of a priest or bishop blindly, simply because the priest or bishop claims to be speaking in God's name or the name of Catholic truth, is a noble thing to do.

The Austrian Catholic layman, Franz Jaeggerstaetter, refused to serve in the Nazi army even though his priest and his bishop both told him he had a sacred obligation to serve in the army.

Jaeggerstaetter is in the process of being declared a saint right now.

Anyone who imagines a church and its leaders can't do evil is either stupid or very blind.
Posted by William D. Lindsey]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:56:08 -0600 Arkansas Times Poor Alice, she seems to just be jumping from one sinking ship to another.
Posted by HardHeadedWoman]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:40:27 -0600 Arkansas Times Posted by nadadamnthing]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:32:38 -0600 Arkansas Times Here's a link to the explanation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorum_(sex…)
Posted by HardHeadedWoman]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:29:49 -0600 Arkansas Times
Question, when was the word defined as such. Is this a recent thing?
Posted by MarcKyle64]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:08:55 -0600 Arkansas Times
"Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great, when a sperm is wasted, every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great, when a sperm is wasted, every sperm is sacr Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great, when a sperm is wasted, every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great, when a sperm is wasted, every sperm is sacr Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great, when a sperm is wasted, every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great, when a sperm is wasted, every sperm is sacr"

Oh Buddha, Make It Stop! AAAHHHH!!!!!

(For those of us afflicted by musical earworms, I find a listen to "The Wall" on 'loud' usually kills them. Most of the work is done by the stuka scream in 'In the flesh?' If I don't hear anything when the baby starts crying, I know it's gone. Meditation helps too.)

Thanks for the shout out Outlier.

Gene, as a former Catholic, my stance on the contraception issue was that it involved free will, conscious intelligence, and the ability to chose and those things were given to me by God. If He wanted mindless baby machines pumping out whelp after whelp like my hamsters,

(seriously, the silly things WILL get pregnant again within two hours after they give birth if given the chance. They've done studies as to why the male dwarf hamster hangs around to help raise the pups. It's because he can keep impregnating her over and over and the odds in the genetic lottery are better if he helps out.)

then why the free will? The church wasn't going to help me change diapers or find the money to feed them. It didn't matter anyway, as I never found a catholic girl to marry and she would be horrified by my current search for spiritual meaning.

I'm suspicious of the posts by Duhvember, they're too long, too literate, too well punctuated and correctly spelled. Didja finally learn how to copy and paste, little guy?
Posted by MarcKyle64]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:58:26 -0600 Arkansas Times
It is unfortunate, Mr. Lyons, that the priest gave you such erroneous information. NO PRIEST has the right to change any of the teachings of the Church. Contraception has never been permitted! This does not mean that couples cannot space their children. In "your day" it was the rhythm method and now it's Natural Family Planning.

The HHS Mandate is an issue of religious liberty. It is President Obama that is infringing upon the Catholic Church's religious liberty which is protected by the Constitution. This is also not a women's health issue. Any woman who wants contraception can get it on her own. The Church, however, should not be forced to violate her conscience. This move by the President is an assault on Christians; and Catholics in particular.

Furthermore, it boggles my mind why any woman would want to take contraceptives. They wreak havoc with your body and can also cause breast cancer. Women who take contraceptives also find themselves infertile when they are finally "ready" to start a family. And, how many people are aware that contraceptives can cause spontaneous abortions? Contraceptives can prevent an already fertilized egg from implanting.

It is totally irrelevant what you, Mr. Lyons, or any other Catholic believes is acceptable. The Church is not a democracy and she does not change on matters of faith and morals. I would suggest that you and all other "Catholics" who hold heterodox views pick up the Catechism of the Catholic Church and learn what the Church really teaches about contraception and other issues. "Catholics" such as yourself who make statements that are erroneous do no one any good but only contribute to inaccurate information being disseminated.

While you are at it, do some research into sex abuse in other religions and in the secular world. Why doesn't the media talk about the sex abuse in the Orthodox Jewish communities or in the Protestant churches? The new media bias is disgusting.


Posted by Mary]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:55:18 -0600 Arkansas Times
When many seats in Congress are Occupied by members of the Occupy Movement someone will introduce a bill that strips churches of their of their non-profit status and require them to pay taxes. With mega Gyms for Jesus and land spreading for half a mile in all directions, why shouldn't they pay taxes?

Mumbo-jumbo is on the way out. The Internet Tubes are bringing knowledge to the sticks. Old myths are being exploded. A couple of billion learning the truth about the lies of religion. This is a good thing.
Posted by DeathbyInches]]> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:33:17 -0600 Arkansas Times