Arkansas Blog

Hmm...Bush spending time where some so-called intellectuals hang out?? I wonder if everyone's ordered to dumb it down like bikers are directed not to get ahead of him? He's such a pathetic president and person it'd be funny if he hadn't wreaked such havoc on our country and the world.

I think Bush/Cheney are capable of ANYTHING, including attacking Iran while Iraq's in the midst of a civil war. And, we certainly don't have a Congress capable of oversight or of stopping them. Years ago, I'd say the American people wouldn't let such a thing happen, but then along came Bush and nothing surprises me anymore.

That dude has one BIG HEAD !!! Maybe someone should ensure that it is stuffed full of brains & not something else !!

PREVENTIVE, not PRE-EMPTIVE.

ARKBLOG: Please click the ThinkProgress link. You'll see that George Schultz, who hosted the Hoover event, is quoted using the word "pre-emptive."

There is now way we are going to attack Iran. We are horribly overextended as it is.

Anyone with a lick of sense knows that if we are bogged down in Iraq which we had bombed into oblivion in the first Gulf War, had inspector spies crawling over the entire country, and had sanctioned the government within inches of collapse can still be insurging after 3 years. We are in no shape to be attacking a country that has been reaping windfall profits from the oil price run ups, is rested up from lack of military engagement, and would love to get attacked by the Great Satan so that the rulers could get an ironfist chokehold on power.

There is no way we would be idiot enough to pick a fight in that situation.

Anyone remember how smug the Republicans were when Wag the Dog came out? Payback is a bitch.

"There is no way we would be idiot enough to pick a fight in that situation." Well, that was my thought before the current mess was initiated. With Bush's polls in the dumper and serious thought being given to whether he is the worst president ever, I would bet the farm that we will have an October surprise that will involve Iran and military action.

Dear Lord, these pseudo-Christians ARE bringing about the apocalypse.

Ugh, i strongly dislike them

If Big Oil is making record profits now through the mark-up that is possible on $75 per barrel, imagine what a haul they'll make when Dubya wages war on Iran and it spikes to, perhaps, $150 or more. But, of course, there is no connection, folks! Dubya is getting his instructions from God Almighty, and his only motive is what's best for you and me and the Homeland. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Yeah, let's occupy 3 countries in the Middle East. The locals will undoubtably love us to death.

The single benefit of attacking Iran is that it would force a draft. We need some children of Chickenhawk Republicans -- especially lawmakers -- over there. The human costs of the war are currently being borne by those at the low to middle range of the income scale.

Times will change when Biff and Buffy come back in Body Bags.

Way early on I figured out that King George was just a puppet whose strings were being pulled by Cheney, Rove, Pearle and the like.

At first I thought it was just about money and to a degree it is all about money. But right around Mission Accomplished, I started seeing that there was an insane element in the mix. I don't think it is as much about Jesus as it is about some people thinking they are great men with wisdom way beyond that of normal man, called to change the course of the world.

In other words the leaders, advisers and powers behind the Bush administration are totally insane! Sure common sense would tell you if you can't whip Iraq stay the hell out of Iran. But someone please point out any common sense they've seen coming out of Bush-Cheney these last long miserable 5 years.

It's easy now to say Hitler was insane, but did the people of the world understand that in 1940? Many now think Hughie Long was nuts, but did Louisiana think that in the 1930s? What about Michael Jackson? Insane as they come! Now we know!

Dick Nixon almost went over the hill during Watergate, stumbling around the White House in the middle of the night mumbling to himself. We're very lucky he didn't have some milk and cookies and then decide to punch the big red launch button.

Bush & Company are clearly insane. Bush says he gets messages from God and those don't worry me as much as the info he's getting from his advisers at the Hoover Institution and the like. Bush may think he has a date with destiny, but please include me out.

I'm thinking the only plan that might save us involves Rev. Billy Graham. I'm not much on preachers, but I do respect Rev. Graham. Poor old guy is 87 and in bad shape. He loves America. Now here's what we do. We strap explosives to his old body and put a firing button on his walker. Then drop him by the front gates of the White House......anyone else see where I'm going with this?*

You gasp, but trust me if Bush drops the bombs on Iran the world will turn blood red. Life as we know it will end. All the goodness and mercy will come to an end and there will be no one to save us from total destruction. The inmates have taken over the asylum, time is running out. Be very afraid!

*My lawyer Dan Ivey has asked me to note that this paragraph is satire or is it irony? I'll have to call him back.

Hmm...you think that Bush is capable of anything and you have the best library that Chinese money can buy in the Clinton Library. I didn't see anyone upset when Clinton authorized the selling of technology to China---a really peace loving country---so they can more accurately target our cities with their missles and wipe out more with their multiple warheads. Bubba made that possible. I didn't hear anyone from Little Rock express any outrage when the Longbeach port facilities were turned over to a Chinese company to manage. However, we Arkansans know that Bubba can do not wrong.

"There is no way we would be idiot enough to pick a fight in that situation."

Citizen, for the sake of our children, and our children's children, I hope you are right. If it were up to us, you would be right. But in the mind of "The Decider," who knows?
If he talks to his God, he may be willing to overextend our overextended military. And we have seen what happens to anyone who disagrees with Georgie Porgie...booted!

A political sage you are not. No politician would intentially launch a military action before elections in November. The only thing that would cause a politican----democrat or republican---to do so would be the chance that a shortage of oil would cause everyone's hairdryers to be inoperative for over one week. In that situation, even Bubba Clinton would probably launch a cruise missle or two. In fact, any shortage of oil would cause everyone to become a wild eyed 'bomb them into the stone age'. This would include the liberals of Little Rock.

"when Clinton authorized the selling of technology to China---"

Gary, please do your research and find out this urban myth the right so fervently promoted. Tsk Tsk. But the high tech American plane the Chinese forced down and then stripping it of its technology under W. is not myth. And hardly a whimper from the right.

Gay from Little Rock -
you think a republican or democrat would go to war to secure oil interests even if there was no shortage????? i remember when we invaded iraq we were told that would be the top in oil prices. back when oil was at $20/brl v today's $75/brl price. glad i didn't take Dub's advice and short oil.
the damnedest thing is oil is not as scarce as the republicans would have you believe. last week when Dub announced that gas and oil prices were going up due to our addiction to oil, the WSJ reported that oil inventories were at an 8 year high. explain that logic. i guess he's not reading the one paper that blindly supports him.

oil prices are high because of 2 things. $15-$20 war premium and a 30% devaluation of the dollar.. both things our government can control even though they say they can't.. Dubs drives the devaluation of the dollar and subsequently invades a middle eastern country that is smack dab in the middle of oil country..
is it the chicken or the egg?
surly he didn't drive up the price of oil to give him an excuse to go to war in the middle east did he? oh my god... what an asshole

"when Clinton authorized the selling of technology to China---"

Gary, please do your research and find out this urban myth the right so fervently promoted. Tsk Tsk. But the high tech American plane the Chinese forced down and then stripping it of its technology under W. is not myth. And hardly a whimper from the right.

I believe this fact was pointed out to Gary on another thread; I believe he conveniently ignored it, too.

Jackass---is that descriptive or a moniker? Where would you like me to go to research so I could reach the pinnacle of Mount Olympus as you have---the top of the Clinton Library? Listen, kid. Just because you can't handle the truth about your tin god from Hot Springs doesn't mean that is untrue. It was an open joke in Washington, D.C. about his antics just as it was in Little Rock.

Cato---it is your hero, Al Gore, that has been yelling oil shortage. The Demos want you to buy smaller cars, ride bicycles, etc. It doesn't matter---republican/demo, conservative/liberal---you are all going to have to significantly alter your views when the impact of Chinese and Indian competition and hunger for oil start pushing us out of the way to satisfy their populace. They won't be 'sensitive' to your whinning or care one ounce about your hardship.

anonymous-
uhhhhhh
i don't recall one comment about Clinton, or the spa city for that matter.
i assume you'd like to research why oil is at an all time high despite supply being at an all time high..
the WSJ article to which if refer is dated 4/18, titled:Oil Settles Above $70 a Barrel, Despite Inventories at 8-Year High
now for the war premium, granted it's impossible to quantify. but it could be $30/brl and i'm likely lower than higher on my est. the devaluation of the dollar is quite quantifiable.. see the value of the dollar when Dub took office and see the value now. by the way, it's no coincidence that Dub is a supply-sider. since we buy/price oil (and every other commodity) in dollars it's 30% more expensive just on the currency swap.
the global growth story and demand from china and india are myths, spread by democrats and republicans alike because either they don't want the citizens to know the real truth or they're just too stupid to know the difference (i suspect its the former for republicans and the latter for democrats). we run isolationist foreign policy, we are fighting a war (on top of the oil) and we are devaluing our currency.. all drivers of high commodity prices. i would also point you to the price of oil which went parabolic upon our invasion of iraq.. 3/03 was the low not the high.
if you think i'm wrong i challenge you to prove otherwise. give me the data. i'm sure you can't find it because it's not out there, unless you are quoting a politician who is not supporting with data but rhetoric.. the fact is that the price of oil is accelerating when the global economy is decelerating.. it's called inflation and your gov is inflating.. simple
now that i've schooled your ignorant ass, you can go back to slamming Clinton who to my knowledge didn't preside over economic growth at the expense of falling inflation adjusted wages...

I don't quote politicians. My observation about the growth of the Chinese and Indian economies is first hand. If you were to visit there you would see a growth in all consumer driven sectors. While the cities are the locus of growth, even the rural areas are affected.

When you talk about oil and price you need to differentiate between crude and refining capacity. The cost is driven by availability of crude---light sweet vs heavy crude---and refinning capacity.

If you are worried about the value of our currency, you need to focus on the impact of China holding vast quantities of American IOUs and the balance of trade. They are starting to shift their reserves from American $ to Euros. That should shake you up considerably assuming you 'comprende'.

You will pardon my departure from your tirade on 'vodoo economics'----must be a Clinton trait. Clinton's understanding of economics is understandable since they don't dwell on that very much in law school. So don't be so quick to give him credit for something he had absolutely nothing to do about.

"My observation about the growth of the Chinese and Indian economies is first hand. If you were to visit there you would see a growth in all consumer driven sectors. "

that's anecdotal, where are the numbers?

"When you talk about oil and price you need to differentiate between crude and refining capacity. The cost is driven by availability of crude---light sweet vs heavy crude---and refinning capacity. "

ok ok, sweet crude makes gas and heavy makes asphalt. refiners of sweet are at a tight capacity. is this what you are saying? if this is the case it would put downward pressure on oil and upward pressure on gasoline.. oil prices have risen more than gas prices. it's not a refining issue.. another myth.

"If you are worried about the value of our currency, you need to focus on the impact of China holding vast quantities of American IOUs and the balance of trade. They are starting to shift their reserves from American $ to Euros. That should shake you up considerably assuming you 'comprende'."

you have made my point on the inflation issue.. that's why there is inflation, because there is so much debt outstanding and such a discrepancy between what we import and what we export.. we import crap, we export dollars to pay the interest to buy the crap. the dollar is weak because we had to borrow so much money to finance the tax cuts, spending increase and all that crap from china.

"You will pardon my departure from your tirade on 'vodoo economics'----must be a Clinton trait. Clinton's understanding of economics is understandable since they don't dwell on that very much in law school. So don't be so quick to give him credit for something he had absolutely nothing to do about. "

so what you are saying is that the Clinton/Rubin doctrine of a strong dollar and balanced budget didn't have anything to do with economic growth during their term. maybe so, it could have been luck. but i challenge you to prove that a strong dollar policy wasnt' responsible for low inflation which kept real wages strong v the Dub policy of a weak dollar which has driven real wages lower... the true driver of real wealth... it's not a coincidence..
acting as Clinton doesn't know econ because he went to law school is the most ridiculous assertion i've ever heard..
you think Alan Greenspan had more stimulating economic conversations with Clinton or Dubs? i thought so

This thread is a great example of the Republican platform:
- Clinton didn't do it, so we have to.
- Clinton did it, too.
- Hillary is evil.
- If criticized, repeat.

If in fact the shrub was ordained by god to be President, as he 'believes', it is because he is the perfect vehicle to lead us to our doom.

Oh the irony, the fundies selecting the deity's retribution upon themselves.

I'm currently reading Theodore Rex, a Teddy Roosevelt biography. You can keep Lincoln, by far my lifelong favorite Republican has always been Teddy.

Though a little more than a hundred years separate their presidencies, the similarities between Roosevelt and Clinton are amazing. No modern politician more reminds me of Teddy Roosevelt than Bill Clinton. Both men hated to sleep lest they missed something. Both men would talk till they dropped if only 2 people were standing around to listen.

Both men loved people, being around people, sucking up their thoughts and ideas and sharing the most asinine thread of knowledge with each other. Both men startled and angered their cronies by doing what was right for America when the need arose.

Neither of these Presidents ever met a stranger and both worked just as hard in retirement as they did in office. Were they right 100% of the time? No. Did they try as hard as they could, did they out-work everyone around them? Yes. Both were physical wrecks by the time they left office, from years of hard work, worry and the inability to relax when they had the chance.

Unlike the current trash in the White House, TR and Bill were examples of blazing intelligence. They're hearts were in the right place. They were men of enormous appetites. And as it has been said, they wanted to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral. I like people like that, they make life interesting.

Did they listen to other people, pick up some bad advice now and then? Sure. But mostly they flew by the feeling in their own gut, doing what was good for America. And a quick study of their records show they were right a whole lot more often than they were wrong. America flourished in both the TR years and the Clinton years.

I'm sorry I never voted for either of them. America needs Teddy or Bill back in the driver's seat today. The misery index of the world would be heading back down by Christmas if only these men were back in the White House. Remember that this November. We can do a whole lot better than the last 5 years........we have to if we want to survive the next 5 years.

Gary: "Cato---it is your hero, Al Gore, that has been yelling oil shortage."

Hmmmm. Funny how my hero is determined and I have never once mentioned Al in any posting. Another false assumption by Gary. But I will admit up front Al Gore got 540,000 more votes in 2000 than Gary's boy did. So, I would say the majority of American voters didn't want W. in the first place. But we got him, thanks to 5 Republican SC Justices.

Al Gore would have made a fine President if the election hadn't turned into a selection. And compared to the shrub, Al could be rated stellar, outstanding, excellent!

DBI!!! You never voted for Clinton??? Jeez, man, I thought I understood you. What were you thinking? Please tell me you just didn't vote and had a good excuse.

PREVENTIVE, not PRE-EMPTIVE.

ARKBLOG: Please click the ThinkProgress link. You'll see that George Schultz, who hosted the Hoover event, is quoted using the word "pre-emptive."
Posted by: Anonymous

_______________
But the correct term is preventive. Let's not let this be a discussion discolored by euphemistic sloganeering. Call it what it is. "Pre-emptive" has been a term abused by all in discussing the Iraq War, and I'll be damned if it's not being thrown around already in the discussion of a possible Iranian incursion.

You know this, but pre-emptive war is started by a nation who is already on the defensive due to direct threats, warnings, massing of troops in strategic locations, and other signs of aggression by another nation.

Preventive war is the term which accurately describes our action in Iraq, and (at least until today) would describe the nature of any military action against Iran.

Let's at least frame the debate with the appropriate terminology. After all, when using correct terms, the Republican stance on issues always appears awkward.

Your distinction is moot, monkey. Your definition of "pre-emptive" exactly describes the picture the bushies were trying to paint: "started by a nation who is already on the defensive due to direct threats, warnings, massing of troops in strategic locations, and other signs of aggression by another nation."

Nevermind that none of it was substantially true. Anyway, there's very little difference between "doing it first" and "doing it before they do".

Oh, and the reason the Republicans always look awkward when using "correct terms" is because it's always off-balance. Their definition of "correct" is one-sided.

Pre-emptive ... preventive attack. Since the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the public's distinction between the two is blurred. The Bushists know that exploiting insecurity and fear may be the only way they can prod their voters to the polls in November.

widj, I've hung my head in shame before and admitted a Republican past from the time I first voted for Gerald Ford in 1976 up to my conversion in the late 1990s. I may not fully be a Democrat, but thanks to Ken Starr I am now virulently anti-Republican and I look back and see the error of my ways.

I have heard of a lot of strange things in my life but comparing Bubba Clinton to Teddy Rosevelt is the most far fetched. You forgot another comparison. Bubba was a draft dodger. Teddy volunteered and saw combat in the Spanish American War. I like your selective memory. Bubba's 'intellect' was essentially confined to being a good memorizer. That is hardly an intellectual achievement. Intellect without integrity or courage is like a three legged stool with only one leg.

"Your distinction is moot, monkey."

Then color me pro-abortion, anti-religion and pro-gay.

The distinction between pre-emptive and preventive may be a little more abstract than the above, but let's not underestimate the intelligence of even a Bush supporter. Once you give an inch on terminology, you've begun the slide.

Call it what it is.

Preventive or pre-emptive---depends on your point of view. The US considered the attack on Pear Harbor an act of war. The Japanese considered it justified. The sailors, marines and soldiers that died there were just as dead regardless of your point of view. If the homeland is threatened by someone who wants to kill you it really doesn't matter. In combat the only reality that exists is that if you don't kill the other guy first, he is going to kill you.

Gary, you would be the exception to the rule when speaking of not underestimating the intelligence of Bush supporters. Of course, as proven by the last election, nuance of any sort must be viewed as a threat.

"Preventive or pre-emptive---depends on your point of view."

It depends on whether you get your info from reliable sources or the White House - that's it.

I get info from my own experiences not the DNC. I guess that if you are only recently out of diapers you don't have those experiences to draw upon. I haven't heard anything that hasn't come out of the Democratic Party or some of the talking heads on TV.

Hmmm....Clinton was a draft dodger you say. How would you sum up George W. Bush's sterling military experience, Gary?

He dodged the draft along with Bubba. Do you think that a Veteran doesn't know that?

He dodged the draft along with Bubba. Do you think that a Veteran doesn't know that?

After the shameful display put on by the Rove's swiftboat hit squad, I'm not sure what some Veterans know...or stand for.

We are not 'green' enough to fall for a coward masquerading for a hero. Not many of us took super 8mm cameras with us to record our 'exploits'. We are also accustomed to people living off of our service to our country so that they can bellyache.