Arkansas Blog

Why do people in Little Rock love to close down rural schools when schools in Pulaski Couny have many, many schools on academic distress and spend thousands per pupil above the state average ? Granted some rural schools need to be shut down, but hey let's be fair. When are we going to consolidate Pine Bluff?

This argument goes in circles.

Why do rural schools just want folks in Pulaski Co.,Betonville, etc, to send more tax money to smaller schools?

People in bigger areas want efficiency before more state money is put into smaller schools.

Also, some of the areas that want more money won't raise their local millage!

Something has to give...

If we were interested in the efficiency and effectiveness of our educational system -- providing a high quality education at low cost -- we'd have ONE school district for the entire state. But that would make too much sense and slay too many sacred cows.

In terms of sending money to rural Arkansas. It works the other way to. I pay hundreds of dollars in gas taxes that support our Interstate system yet I rarely drive on an interstate.

If anybody hasn't figured it out yet, the goal of this exercise is to create one school system (state wide) with centralized control. In other words---NO LOCAL CONTROL of schools.

If anybody hasn't figured it out yet, the goal of this exercise is to create one school system (state wide) with centralized control. In other words---NO LOCAL CONTROL of schools.

I hope you're right. This would be an excellent way to make sure that every student has the opportunity to get a decent education. It would eliminate things like the eminent scholars of the Beebe School Board deciding that they didn't believe in science.

It would also be a good into for centralized control from the FEDS. Don't kid yourself if you don't think that centralized control doesn't really translate into federal control. Imagine how effectively a federal bureaucrat will be able to run your schools from Washington.

If anybody hasn't figured it out yet, the goal of this exercise is to create one school system (state wide) with centralized control. In other words---NO LOCAL CONTROL of schools.
Posted by: a school patron

i believe the law you are refering to is no CHILd Left behind a GOP /BUSH education law in local circles it called no local school borad left standing we all ready have FED control... of local schools they teach to a PHONY test all damn year is a fraud and harming our KIDS i read the FOX news report the paron children parents were more concern with FOOTball games after school than their kids education...bet they did not like the school board telling tyhem to tranfer their kids to Joe t Robinson HIGH school either btw its closer i believe its a afro-american majority campus...paron is a lilly white SCHOOL.like that going to happen NOT....i think it great these small schools are being closed time for these backwards communities to join us in the REAL world ....

Patron:

I also understand the UN is training troops around Mena so that we can have a worldwide army. What will be next??

No, I'm not referring to the 'No Child Left Behind Law'. I'm referring to a National School Board that makes policy for your local school. 'Local school' may be a misnomer because all policy decisions would be made in Washington and administered through a state. The state would simply be an arm of the feds.

Those of you who have not had the priviledge of working in Washington for the federal government are in for a real treat.

Why won't the ADE try distant learning. I know its expensive. But they could set up classes for students at say Paron and have teachers teaching from Bryant. Colleges can do it, why can high schools.

I am all for better education, but I also see the whole effect of if you close down the school, you close down the community.

I prefer returning to the good old days. In 1920, my county had 29 school districts and now it has four. Four is too few. The more the better. If it was good enough for our grandfathers then.............

1234 said: "Why do people in Little Rock love to close down rural schools when schools in Pulaski Couny have many, many schools on academic distress and spend thousands per pupil above the state average ?"

Let's consider why the cost is higher in Pulaski County. Here's two big reasons.
1. We have the schools for the deaf and schools for the blind. The costs associated with handicapped kids are considerably higher than "normal" children. I would bet that Pulaski county serves a far greater number of handicapped students than other counties.
2. Additional overhead is needed due to the desegregation lawsuits and continuing harassment from the Joshua Intervenors. I hate to think how much money is and has been spent on legal expenses. The schools are also required to provided bus transportation for students after school activities. In other school systems, parents actually drive their own kids to and from school activities.

My opinion is that these small high schools want to stay open for the sake of their athletic programs, in particular football. The academics aren't nearly as important. If athletic funding were made solely a local responsibility (i.e. no state money), I'd bet we'd see a lot more of these small districts shuttered.

My opinion is that these small high schools want to stay open for the sake of their athletic programs, in particular football. The academics aren't nearly as important. If athletic funding were made solely a local responsibility (i.e. no state money), I'd bet we'd see a lot more of these small districts shuttered.

It is just amazing to see people defy study after study, result after result which proves small school districts do nothing to advance the young people who go through them. It is almost as if the parents fear an emotional separation which a good education will likely produce in thier children - they will go away to perhaps never return. Rather than revel in the achievement of thier children, they would rather tie them down to lives of circumscribed opportunities. That's what preserving more than 75 school districts in Arkansas has achieved. We need to do better. Let your emotions grow and let your children go!

Let your emotions grow and let your children go!

There you go again. Turning our children over to a Washington nanny solves nothing. When was the last time that the feds got anything right?

"here you go again. Turning our children over to a Washington nanny solves nothing. When was the last time that the feds got anything right?"

Patron, you have far more confidence in the Arkansas Dept. of Education and the Arkansas General Assembly than many of us do.

No, I have more confidence in 'Podunk' School District than I do in Washington to run a local school.

The effort to save the Paron high school wasn't about football - they don't have a team. And it wasn't about better education for children - the school was mediocre at best, no telling how many parents out there put their kids in LR schools. The school survived in the past by paying really lousy teacher salaries. It WAS about race. I doubt there was a single black student at Paron. Why pay all that tuition at Pulaski Academy or Arkansas Baptist when you can move to Paron and go to a segregation academy at taxpayer expense? It's why reminders about the proximity of Robinson High in PCSSD fall on deaf ears. For too many parents, avoiding them people is far more important than a quality education.

What's the deal with Chris Heller? I thought he represented the Little Rock School District. How can he represent Little Rock and at the same time defend the smallest high school in the state? Surely the LRSD board understands that if tiny high schools are propped up it will be at the expense of larger districts.

ARK. BLOG Our thoughts exactly. Reminiscent of the day when his firm was being paid huge sums to defend the school district on desegregation matters as it was fighting desegregation cases all over the state.

"It is just amazing to see people defy study after study, result after result which proves small school districts do nothing to advance the young people who go through them. "

This is absolutely false. Chris Heller cited the Korets study - a study performed by Stanford University at the request of Stanford University. In it is says that administrative conolidation is good, but when you start shutting down schools, academics suffer and the kids suffer.
There are many other reports that say the same thing. Don't believe everything the education elitists say - they have an agenda.

One school district per congressional district and no athletic programs would be funded by tax money...the money saved could be given back to the real estate owners who pay for the schools...one problem though...this idea makes too much sense.

"It is just amazing to see people defy study after study, result after result which proves small school districts do nothing to advance the young people who go through them. "

This is absolutely false. Chris Heller cited the Korets study - a study performed by Stanford University at the request of MIKE HUCKABEE said that administrative conolidation is good, but that when you start shutting down schools, academics suffer and the kids suffer.
There are many other reports that say the same thing. Don't believe everything the education elitists say - they have an agenda.

PSGrad is almost right. The Ark. Dept. of Education website says Paron High School had two black students, of 125 total, in the 2003-04 school year.

There are indeed a number of studies suggesting smaller schools do better. And a number of states have implemented policies to reduce school size. Some even reorganize very large high schools into two separate schools in the same building. But those studies are focused on high schools with thousands of students, not dozens. The smaller schools created in these states are still much larger than the vast majority of Arkansas high schools. National researchers would consider a small high school to have 400-600 students. Paron had 75.

There are very few black students in Paron because very few black people live in Paron. Will you claim that people who live in Wyoming or New Hampshire are racists because they don't have black people there? Why can't it be that people who live in Paron want their children to go to a nearby school because it's nearby?

If you think Paron needs to be shut down for economic reasons, that's an argument. If you want to paint an entire community--one that you don't know squat about--with a racist brush, that's bigotry.

George said, "Let's consider why the cost is higher in Pulaski County. Here's two big reasons.
1. We have the schools for the deaf and schools for the blind. The costs associated with handicapped kids are considerably higher than "normal" children."

The School for the Deaf and the School for the Blind are state schools, run as state agencies, nothing to do with the Pulaski County Schools.

Wonder how many tax mileage's the Paron Community rejected over the last few years ?? its evident to me that ARCH is not a native or knows nothing about white flight schools in Arkansas we have many of them in these little districts. oh before you try and clock me i went to an all white school in PC NLR and was the first group of children bused to an afro American majority school. in the MID 1960's seen both worlds prob. why i choose to attend college out of state .best thing that ever happen to ME i was bused to a Low economic area Black school and school in NLR ..and learned about diversty was glad i did... :)

When was the last time that the feds got anything right?

When Social Security helped to save the elderly and disabled from starvation.

When, under Clinton, the deficit was eliminated and a surplus was created.

When the south was forced to integrate its schools.

Civil Rights legislation.

When we visited the moon.

When Harriet Myers was shown the door.

When Libby was indicted

World War II.

There's a longer list of screw-ups but even the devil should occasionally get his due.

"Wonder how many tax mileage's the Paron Community rejected over the last few years"

Actually, Paron was paying a much higher millage rate befoe they got annexed with Bryant. Part of the reason they are struggling financially is because they aren't allowed to tax themselves more - because for 70 years they were willing to pay more to keep their school open. Do you have any other baseless accusations I can help you answer.

its evident to me that ARCH is not a native or knows nothing about white flight schools in Arkansas

I've lived in Arkansas pretty much my whole life, and I'm a Paron High graduate. Paron is not now, nor has it ever been a "white flight" school. You can't call a high school with 75 students an anything-flight school. When I was there, almost everyone who went to Paron lived in the district. As far as I know, that hasn't changed.

Also, anonymous, you can say what you want about Paron, but they did teach me how to properly spell and capitalize sentences, and the proper use of apostrophes. Doesn't look like your school was quite so successful.

Thanks, Mr. Boshears! Hope you can find another job!

Thanks, Mr. Boshears! Hope you can find another job!

Yes Good Luck Mr Boshears. a good educator will never have a problem finding a JOB .
with all these teachers shortages and all.. maybe bryant school district is hiring they all protect each other anyway when it come to wasteful spending in disfunional school's .

"No, I have more confidence in 'Podunk' School District than I do in Washington to run a local school."

Sorry, Patron, you are under a false illusion that these are local school districts. They are not. They are state school districts regardless of the name given to the districts. Education is within the constitutional domain of the states and this is what the state supreme court make very clear in its recent rulings on the Arkansas school system. In fact, this principle is at the root of the decisons the state supreme court has handed down, those rulings dealing with equality of opportunity, money expended, facilities, equipment, salaries, etc. The local boards don't run the local schools. It's a myth. The courts have tried to eradicate -or educate- the State of Arkansas to the real world in this endeavor.

Study after study, from liberal as well as conservative organizations, conclude that shutting down small schools in rural and black communities harms the kids in those communties and creates new and greater obstacles for those kids to succeed. So lay of the nonsense that this is what's "good" for the kids. This is a way for Little Rock to save money -- on the backs of rural families.

This is a way for Little Rock to save money -- on the backs of rural families.

Posted by: Camus
Camus ,

Let's not overlook the fact that the Arkansas STATE BOARD of ED ,made the rulling and closed the paron and MY holly schools and the bryant school board RULED NOT the LITTLE ROCK SCHOOL BOARD let not let fact cloud your judgements. seem aRURAL SCHOOL baord closed the paron school not Little Rock.

Don't be ridiculous Bryant School District is not a rural school board. You must be from Little Rock. Your arrogance as well as your ignorance is showing. Not to mention your grammar skills. So much for those great educational opportunities provided by Little Rock.

The state Board of Education decided today to close Paron High School. It's now part of the Bryant School District and Bryant officials said insufficient money, tiny classes and teachers doubling up in subjects all argued for closing the high school and shifting the students to Bryant High

Plainly States Bryant School board ruled If bryant is not a rural school district then the rural debate is MOOT i guess . Have a great day glad the Ark state ED department did the right thing....

I pay school taxes to the State of Arkansas, not a urban or rural district... the STATE SCHOOL TAX is for all school children . its not us Vs them its about all the children in school in Arkansas..

So why should I pay taxes for Paron students to have classes with 1 or 2 students, while my kids are 1 of 20 or 25? These tiny districts are bankrolled with almost all state money, not local property taxes. If we're all going to pay the bill, shouldn't we all expect a reasonable level of efficiency - in rural and urban schools? And I've seen the numbers, these tiny districts pay less, students perform worse, and they cut corners in course offerings. There's a reason Paron doesn't have a WalMart or a Walgreens or a Wendys, and the same economies of scale apply in schools. Below a level, you just can't deliver the product at a reasonable price. But then if you're not paying the bill, guess you don't really care how my tax dollars are spent.

Gee, notanon, I thought we were trying to educate children, not run a business.

Anonymous, last time I checked my county collected a tax millage rate -- and a pretty darn hefty one -- on behalf of the school district in which my property lays. Sadly the millage rate is the highest in the county and the school district is one of the worst in the county. It's on the financial distress list AND has been investigated for financial shenanigans. (No charges, the bookkeeper didn't know she wasn't supposed to do that. That makes me feel REALLY REALLY good about the financial situation.)

"In the first place God made idiots. That was for practice. Then He made school boards." (Mark Twain) I've spent a lifetime in connection with various local AR boards, and I have to agree with Mr. Clemens. There are occasional glorious exceptions such as the Hoxie and Charleston boards' brave stands on integration in the 50's and there are some outstanding individual members, but the fact is that local school boards seldom have any vision of the future unless it focuses on their athletic dynasties. All they can think about is next year's ball team or how an issue affects their own children right now. They generally suffer from a collective adolescent inability to postpone gratification for the few in return for long-term gain for all. They make short-sighted, illogical choices because they don't have the grit or moral fortitude to be responsible adults. Twain had them pegged years ago, but we keep letting them call the shots in the belief that "local" is somehow synonymous with "wise". It's a fallacy of logic spawned by American frontier independence, I expect, but it's led us to a sad state of education and it's time to try something else.

Anonymous, last time I checked my county collected a tax millage rate -- and a pretty darn hefty one -- on behalf of the school district in which my property lays.

You forgot the fed taxes we for schools we also pay as well . it all goes to CHILDREN. in Arkansas thats the point i pay the local taxes to the country the state devide them UP for the schools and is the gate keeper evidently doigotta. OH i have no children attending any schools ....

It always amazes me that we get into this argument. The state of Georgia has fewer than than 100 school districts, more land mass and more population than Arkansas, and yet we decide that over 250 is good. It is a waste to have that many. I have covered many a rural school district school board meetings, and let me say, it is sad, sad, sad. Most of these people are good people and well intentioned, but are not qualified to run a 7-11. Yet, we put them in charge of spending millons of dollars. It doesn't make sense. We waste so much, when we should be worried about spending that money on our children's education on stuff that could be saved with larger school districts. You can travel 45 mintues from Conway to Heber Springs on and pass through seven, yes, seven school districts - each with a superintendent drawing a nice salary. IT IS A WASTE. I am sick of it. Sorry to offend those who will be attending graduating ceremonies for those 20 hard-working seniors, or 30 or 10, or whatever low number it is. Eveybody talks about their kids and the long trips. But where do this kids go after school? They head to these towns for fun or part-time jobs. So put your covered wagon away, and join the 21st century.

The argument, yeah, we all pay property taxes. But look at this way, someone with a 1,000 acre rural farm with 35 mill property tax is going to pay less than someone with 2 acres with a $250,000 home on it, even at a 25 mill tax rate. So who is left to foot the bill, the Arkansas taxpayer. The General Assembly passed a tax increase just for schools. So I pay more taxes where I live so Superitendent Jones (made up last name) can make $50,000 plus (most cases a lot more) at a rural school district. Must be nice, the next time I have to put back some food at the grocery store because I can't afford it, I'll be sure to thank him or her.

"In the first place God made idiots. That was for practice. Then He made school boards." (Mark Twain) I've spent a lifetime in connection with various local AR boards, and I have to agree with Mr. Clemens...

...but the fact is that local school boards seldom have any vision of the future unless it focuses on their athletic dynasties.

I agree wholeheartedly! I would add, however, that putting prayer back in school, and watering down the sciences with 'intelligent design' and Sunday school 'abstinence only' classes are also high on their priority lists.