Arkansas Blog

The anti abortionists are already lining up to try and win these offices. I think the pro choice candidates that won were the voices of the people speaking out against the right wing lunacy.

But, these couple of wins are not enough and we must not stop there. Women and progressive voters must NO LONGER SUPPORT candidates that are anti choice, lest AR ends up with murderous legislation like South Dakota has - banning abortion even in the event of rape or incest or serious threat to the mother's health. Plain and simple, that law is a death sentence arbitrated by men for women only.

Women. It's time to fight for your rights. And men, it's time to fight for the rights of your wives, daughters and granddaughters. Let God sort it out, but it's the woman's choice right or wrong.

Abortion is a losing cause. Attitudes are changing and people are becoming more and more uncomfortable with abortion. The stark reality of it and the existence of those who can not live with the murdering of an innocent child in the mother's womb will continue to limit it.

God put us on this earth to do his will. His will is not to destroy innocent human life.

Take your opinion on abortion and own it. Stand your ground no matter how you feel on the issue and let the cards fall where they may. Few politicians this political season made an issue out of abortion, except for Dustin McDaniel- who made it the centerpoint of his runoff election against Paul Suskie. I received a multi-page color mailer the day before the election that said that Paul was wrong for women and that Dustin was the only one that would defend a woman's right to an abortion.

All I will say is that the mailer was so over-the-top that it did little to sway my vote, and I am pro-choice. My problem now is that I read an AP article in which Dustin says that abortion shouldn't be an issue in the general election and that Gunner is bringing it up to be divisive. Dustin you can't have it both ways. Own your position on abortion and deal with the consequences- good or bad.

"Those" people make me sick. To think that in a few short weeks the anti-abortion, you're killing babies and were are here to save Arkansas...are going to have Rudy Guiliani here to represent them and do a little fundraising for ole fence sitter Asa. Rudy is PRO-CHOICE - explain this to me? And who wants it both ways? When it comes to the dollar, the high moral ground is temporariley thrown out the window with the baby.
This is deeply personal and it's HER choice - it's between her, her God and her family. And no one but her, will stand before Peter, not you and not me. Christ's teachings was ALL about personal choice and responsiblilty, how we conducted ourselves. Our charge is to educate those of Christ's teachings, not judge and use man's laws to legislate morality. If there is a failure here, it is the with the faith based community. We should of been educating the children not building "Six Flags" over Jesus all over this nation. That's the real failure here were money and a churches wealth became more important than spreading God's word to the least amongs us, who by the way have the higest abortion rates. There is always a cause and effect.

"God put us on this earth to do his will. His will is not to destroy innocent human life." We been doing that since the beginning of time, first over real estate and now oil, innocent life, being all innocent life right? Another example of wanting it both ways.

MURDER of innocent life is everybody's business. When you take an innocent life it is my responsibility and the state's to do something about it. The baby in the womb can't defend themselves. That is left to us. We must protect those who can't protect themselves. We must speak for those who can not speak for themselves.

Christ taught us to obey God. Murder is not a personal choice. It is the breaking of God's laws. The taking of innocent life is the breaking of man's laws.

I'm repeating myself, but so what?

There are two and only two options on abortion. Either:

(1) You favor legal abortion, or

(2) you favor illegal abortion.

There is not now and has never been a third choice. Let the fetus-worshippers explain themselves when their grandchildren run out of water.

We should not let them get away with this. For six long, long years the Republicans have controlled all 3 branches of government. If they wanted a constitutional amendment, the could of had it, right? Wrong! They want nothing to do with it. NO way was Rove gonna let his party take the whip (abortion) out of the Republican play book. They been winning elections for decades on that issue - every Republican who believes abortion should be illegal ought to be up in arms, they've been lied to and betrayed by their party, who could of done something, but because of politics and money, not morality, they chose to sit on their hands.

And whose worse? Democrats who believe it's her moral choice, or the Republicans who scream at the top of their lungs every election cycle about abortion, and when they had the chance, did nothing. Whose more morally corrupt?

"There are two and only two options on abortion..."

Yes, to obey God's commandments or to disobey him. Thou shall not murder.

Pro-Life
I hope you demostrate the same passion and disgust with our current "war" in Iraq as 10's of thousands of "innocent lives", women and childrfen have been lost. Do you draw a distinction between what is "murder" and what is "murder"?

Mr. Pro Life,
Do you also oppose the death penalty and all forms of war? After all, that's murder too, right?

The intentional taking of an innocent life is murder.

Abortion is a losing cause. Attitudes are changing and people are becoming more and more uncomfortable with abortion...

Trying to send the women of this country back to the days when they didn't have control of their bodies is the losing cause. And, this is one reason that the Republican leadership isn't elevating abortion to the Constitutional Amendment playing field along with their other non-productive right-wing issues like gay marriage and flag stuff. They know the country is not going to allow an outright abortion ban. So they keep dangling the red-meat out there for the part of their base that still can't quite come to terms with the reality that it's 2006 not 1956.

Further, no one is 'comfortable' with abortion. Women facing this decision don't think 'Yippee I get to have an abortion...good thing I don't have morals nor an eternal soul.' In most instances, it's a personal moral decision that each individual must come to terms with...one way or the other; it's not a state moral decry to be forced on a woman from the Capitol or from the church pews.

God put us on this earth to do his will. His will is not to destroy innocent human life.

One reason I so abhor the Iraq war.

In response to:

"Yes, to obey God's commandments or to disobey him. Thou shall not murder."

Can't reasonable people disagree as to when human life begins?

Should every requirement for a Christian in the bible be included in either the Constitution or U.S. Code?

The Lord knows Republicans would be in trouble when we the one of the 10 commandments against lying on the books!

Pro Life, one of the differences between people like you and pro-choice folks is that we don't see certain aspects of abortion as murder.

Are you aware that "Fifty-eight percent of all abortions for which gestational age was reported were performed at less than 8 weeks of gestation, and 88% were performed before 13 weeks"? This is from the government's CDC website. (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm)

Do you know the characteristics of an embryo/ fetus before 8 weeks? or 13 weeks? Would it be viable? Is it "alive"?

The crux is one's definition of when life begins.

Do you consider it "murder" when a woman's egg is fertilized but remains in the fallopian tube and has to be removed?

On the other end of the issue is the quality of life as one comes to the end of it. Is it murder to you that a friend of mine had to decide when to remove the breathing tube of her father?

Additionally, you point out that "Murder is not a personal choice. It is the breaking of God's laws." There are 1000s of laws in the Bible. You breaking any of them? Is that your personal choice?

I am curious about what you think regarding these issues.

"Yes, to obey God's commandments or to disobey him. Thou shall not murder."

You just said it, to obey God's commandments. I happen to be one of them there Democrats who would never chose or advocate an abortion, my faith and upbringing does not allow it. MY FAITH, MY UPBRINGING. But this isn't MY choice, it is her's. If there are consequences to face, she'll face them. I am charged to lead by example, to teach and spread God's word, not to judge. If we in the faith based community would have been a little more focused on that charge, abortion could of easily been the exception.
But it is much eaiser for the likes of many, to stand on their little mountians and scream "murder", rather than do the hard work of spreading God's word, to places and people we might find unsavory.

The intention of taking a life is murder - it does not matter if it is innocent. This seems to be the lynchpen that those who are pro-life use to maintain their arguments against abortion and for the death penalty and war. Please, wake up!!! Whether your looking at life from a legal perspective or a religious perspective, spiritual purity doesn't change the crime/sin committed (murder if I've lost you). I have never known anyone who has had an abortion, but I simply can't believe that any woman has sex intending to have an abortion if she gets pregnant. Although this could be true, let's realize that pregnancy can be like ruining a life if it happens at the wrong time. Spare me the adoption speech because women still have to worry about pre-natal care, doctors visits, new maternity clothes, hospital fees, FINDING a good family, and time off from work. Oh and spare me the abstinence speech because we're all human. My main point is that this is an extremely personal issue that should not be exploited during any campaigns on either side - in reality, what can anybody really do about it because all you'll get is a lot of pissed off people whether you ban it or support it. As a Christian, I'm embarassed at the elementary interpretations of God's word to advance political agendas - please leave me out of your crusade.

If I or anyone else breaks God's laws we face the consequences for that. He is a forgiving God if we repent but he is also a God of justice.
However, repentance is not just saying we are sorry and continuing to break his commandements. It is turning from the disobedience.

The intentional taking of innocent human life is wrong. There are no if, ands, or buts.
Deep down inside I think we all know when we are doing something wrong. However, sometimes we try to rationalize it because we want to do it and if we continue after awhile we become hardened to it.

The Arkansas Democratic Party and their candidates are "Liberal???"

The Republicans may try to paint them as such, but remember that all of the abortion restrictions in Arkansas have been passed by a Democrat-controlled legislature. Remember that laws protecting working people are eroded during every session. Remember that tax breaks for corporations are passed during every session. You can go down the list of "Liberal" planks in the Democratic Party's platform and see that they have been universally ignored by a legislature 75% comprised of Democrats, including Mike Beebe, who has continued that disdain of liberal leanings as AG.

The only thing they can be condemned for is being Republican-Lite - all of the words and none of the courage.

Democrats are Liberals?!?!
Pshahh!

"But it is much eaiser for the likes of many, to stand on their little mountians and scream "murder", rather than do the hard work of spreading God's word, to places and people we might find unsavory."

Spreading God's word does not exclude someone from speaking out against murder. The Lord's discilines went out into all nations and preached his word but they also spoke up against sin.

Thank you Pro-Life - your 9:12 post says it all. YOU sin YOU pay. YOU know a sin is wrong. YOU face the consequences of moral wrong doings. Thanks for making my point...it's a deeply PERSONAL choice.

DEMOCRATS ARE PRO-CHOICE, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD HAVE ELECTED WOOLDRIDGE.

ARKANSANS ARE PRO LIFE. GOP WILL WIN.

No civilized society can function if murder is permitted. If you were entierely secular you would still have laws that punished murder. Saying that murder is a personal thing or choice is like saying that suicide is a personal choice yet we have laws forbiding that. Our most basic laws are based upon a code or morality that exists throughout the world.

I'm so sick of hearing santimonious blather from bible-thumping zealots it makes me want to puke.

Why does any of this even matter? Abortion is a federal issue.

The Lord's discilines went out into all nations and preached his word but they also spoke up against sin.

Yes, they did. But they didn't go to Harrod's court and scream to pass laws that would legislate what "they" believe, they went to the people, as instructed.

"I'm so sick of hearing sanctimonious blather from bible-thumping zealots it makes me want to puke."

Posted by: TJ | June 15, 2006 09:40 AM

"I'm so sick of hearing sanctimonious blather from bible-thumping zealots it makes me want to puke."

Posted by: TJ | June 15, 2006 09:40 AM

"I'm so sick of hearing sanctimonious blather from bible-thumping zealots it makes me want to puke."

Posted by: TJ | June 15, 2006 09:40 AM
I 2nd and 3rd THAT!!!!!!!!!!

Sad thing is, they only thump their bibles when poltically convenient. If these "zealots" had the passion and commitment for the poor, widowed and suffering, imagine how different the world would be? Instead, we get padded church pews, million dollar sound systems and the Church vying for poltical influence...(see Armani Ronnie). There will be a lot of things to answer for besides a personal abortion decision.

War, and any killing is against Christ's teachings. If you are for any killing, you are not "pro-life."

"There will be a lot of things to answer for besides a personal abortion decision."

Yes, there will be.

I continue to question McDaniel's strategy to inject abortion in to the debate in the runoff. By looking at Pulaski county returns the issue obviously didn't help him. Today he says the issue is divisive. He should have thought long and hard about that before he sent that horrible mailer out. I will vote for McDaniel in the Fall but I believe he made a big mistake making abortion an issue. He now cannot downplay the issue. And one last note, I do not see the difference in Beebe and Suskie's position on the issue. From what I've read it is the same.

"Pro-lifers" are not about saving lives, because if they were they'd be demonstrating against the war and the death penalty.

No, it's all for political gain and winning elections, and I'd hate to face God with such hypocracy in my life.

Wedge issues are fun for the extremists, but I think most Arkansans care more about the issues that actually affect their daily lives. I hope the campaigns will reflect that.

I hope so too Mike, but if you look at the papers today, it appears that the Thugs care little about the real issues that affect the day to day lives of Arkansans - they can't win elections on those...they gotta bring out the wedgies -it's worked before and sadly will probably again.

If the day comes when I see "Pro-Life" ranters carrying signs and marching to protect children from going to bed hungry, being beaten and tortured by their parents or their parent's boyfriend, then I will accept their passion over banning abortion. Doesn't matter to them what you do a child once it gets here, just don't harm the precious fetus! Their zeal makes them hypocrits, "All sound and furn, signifying nothing!"

Damn! Looks like abortion does get folks stirred-up. Does that mean they will vote based upon their emotions? If they do, it sure explains a lot of the crap we have in politics now and the consequent damage to our country and its citizens. I especially like the I'd-gladly-kill-you-but-I-wouldn't-dare-hurt-your-fetus argument. Do any of you children have kids?

Hey you at 9:43, ask Dustin McDaniel. He's says abortion will soon be a state issue.

"Why does any of this even matter? Abortion is a federal issue.

Posted by: Doesn't matter | June 15, 2006 09:43 AM"

Smoke smoke smoke....with the world melting down around us thanks to the greed and stupidity of Bush-Cheney, to even think the most pressing issue this November is that the old gray whiskered abortion devil is number 1 is absurd.

The poster who pointed out that Republicans have owned all 3 branches for 5 years and could have banned abortion if they wanted to, is 100% correct. Yet Bible thumping Republican sheep continue to believe their party leaders are against legal abortions.....are you daffy? As long as Republicans have nubile daughters and mistresses, they will never ban abortion.

I am fine with the idea that the Democratic Party bill itself as the Party of Choice. With choice, everyone is free to follow their own beliefs about how they will conduct their lives. Given no choice, we're reduced to slave status. If you want to drag your personal beliefs that abortion is of the devil into public politics, please switch to the Republican Party.

God is a choice. You can choose to believe or not. But she is no valid argument against abortion. If she was real she'd get a D for all the messed up things in this world and for all the fear tactics she employs over her sheep. If you will not inject God into a political conversation, I will not inject any facts taken from Star Trek. Deal?

I am pro life which means I do not support abortion, I do not support the death penalty; I do not support war! Women do have the right over their own bodies, but with every right there goes a responsibility. If you don't want a child use birth control or don't have sex. And before anyone brings up rape and incest, intercourse in these situations rarely results in a pregnancy. For those of you who are so prolife, I challenge you to see if you are in fact profetus. The Republicans have shown precious little interest in the welfare of the child after its born. I wish you were as ardent in your demands for healthcare and social programs for the needy. There will always be abortions as there has been all during history. Both parties have said that abortion should be rare, so lets leave the ease of shooting off at the mouth and get busy with the hard work of providing alternatives to women faced with unplanned pregnancies..but then again that might require some sacrifices. Both sides of this issue might have to actually listen to each other.

You know, not all of us are Christians.

Politicians swear on the Bible to uphold the Constitution. They don't swear on the Bible to uphold the Bible.

You people that have 10 kids and preach against abortion are hypocrites, anyway. If you truly cared about fetuses being alive, even though they are being born into abhorrant circumstances, you would do your part to correct the world and give them a home (since you have the intention of having a zillion kids anyway). But then again, correcting and repairing the world is a Jewish concept, and I can just imagine where you would stand on that one.

Freaks. Go derange the people in another state. This one's already screwed up enough.

I think a key point here we should all be observing, and that Halter should take note of, is that Jim Holt does not believe in free will. His stance on issues such as abortion are not logical and do not fit.

Every human being is entitled to free choice. How dare any one of you attempt to push your will on me or any other woman or person. The fact that I have a choice is an inherent quality of human liberty, not to mention the Universe. And you cannot "ban" abortion, it will happen and you will not take away choice and liberty to make choice.

Go home and make tater tot casseroles for your 20 kids or something. I am seriously sick of the religious derangement that is so prevalent in this state.

Every human being does not have the right to 'free choice' relative to sex with a child. So please don't peddle that 'if it feels good do it' mentality on the rest of us. Choice is ALWAYS limited in a civilized society. Absolute free choice is called anarchy.

"I am seriously sick of the religious derangement that is so prevalent in this state."

You might want to consider New York State. You will have not problem with religion there.

Every human being does not have the right to 'free choice' relative to sex with a child. So please don't peddle that 'if it feels good do it' mentality on the rest of us.

Please don't equate a woman's choice to have an abortion with pedophilia. And, please don't peddle your personal religious choices as anything but that.

Choice is ALWAYS limited in a civilized society. Absolute free choice is called anarchy.

Yes choice is limited in a civilized society; and a truly civilized society knows the difference between God's law and humans' law...between guidance for the soul and traffic regulation. Absolute religious control is called the Taliban...and other things.

"Absolute religious control is called the Taliban...and other things."

Civilizations have laws based upon morality that regulate behavior. That is not the same as a theocracy.

Whose morality would that be?

Whose morality would that be?

Why, the Right morality of course.

Whatever 'morality' that the state legislatures or the Congress pass into law.

Morality in the year 1850

Morality in the year 1950

Morality in the year 2050

I'm sure all of these are the same, right?

And please, don't say ' Moral Relativism'.

It takes 2/3 of each House of Congress just to propose a Constitutional amendment.

It then takes 3/4s of the states to ratify one.

So exactly where does the 55-seat Republican Senate majority and the similarly-thin House bunch get you "Republicans could have banned abortion by now if they wanted to"?

You guys are entitled to your opinions, both right and left. But you shouldn't be morons.

Laws, often based on the ethical trends fo a civilization, are usually similar to the morals of the time. These are not, however, necessarily the same thing. Mistaking what is ethical, the duties one may have in a social compact we call civilization to each other, and what is moral, the duties one has under what ever religion one follows, creates this confusion.

The idea of a "natural law" that may be unveiled through the work of humanity does not end with the idea that some higher power, such as the Judeo-Christian God, but also extends to uncovering laws based on science. When morality is the only reason you are implementing a policy, you run dangerously close to a theocracy. Morality is part of ones identity, but the choice of morality must be made by an individual and not forced on society by a subset thereof.

AHHH - it had to get out of Congress first before it went to the states - The Republicans majority couldn't or in my estimation, wouldn't get it out of Washington. So one step at a time and don't be stupid.

Well said Themis. I concure.

Most of you need to realize that some of us oppose abortion because it is really terribly wrong to us. You laugh at any mention of morals but what about those of us who do have them. What about those of us who believe that abortion is an abomination to God.

I was glad to see a very few who stuck up for the unborn but most of you don't really care. You want to kill the unborn and if we don't like it you'll probably one day start marching us to the gas chambers.

The Times doesn't seem to think that Arkansans think differently than they do. Times you need to get a life and recognize that you are not the only game in town. This is Arkansas not Massachusetts.

I'm just thankful that a few spoke up for the unborn.

A Mama,

I never doubted the sincerity of a particular person's political views. My comment focused on the conflation of what is a personal choice and what should be forced on all people in a society. Your argument makes several assumptions in which you concede your moral high ground (pardon the pun).

Accusing people who are pro-choice of wanting to drag people off to the gas chambers demonstrates a lack of understanding. Pro-choice indiviudals are more likely to be in favor of increased civil liberties and a check on abuses that would lead to incarceration without legal cause, denial of the right to counsel, imposition of punishment by nonjudicial tribunals, and other such Nazi-esque images you attempted to conjure.

You seem to think that most Arkansans agree with you. Most Arkansans, by poll, did not favor making the existing law any stricter with regards to abortions. The majority of individuals responded that the law should remain as it is or be changed to make abortions more accessible. A Minority took your view.

If you want to debate on this, fine. Do not, however, base your argument solely on your religion. It is not mine. I will not debate the sincerity or correctness of your religious views with you. If you want to enter this debate, bring out policy reasons that go beyond your personal belief system and that address the legal, ethical, and societal implications.

See, Themis, the problem with Arkansas is education. I have to say I agree with everything you say.

It is amusing to see the pitiful attempts to taking abortion and turn it into a bad analogy with something else. The Holocaust? Surely my eyes deceiveth me. Part of the reason the Holocaust even happened was because Hitler and his faction eliminated any balance of powers and believed they were RIGHT and, gasp, they argued on the basis of morals! The Jews, to them, were degrading society with their owning a substantial portion of properties and businesses.

And "A Mama", what does my choice or anybody else's choice have to do with you? Your attempt to push your religious views on other people is abhorrent. They are your views, and you are entitled to them. I find it so incredibly ego-centric of these people, to gather us in to live under their laws. Spare me your drama.

And thanks for the rebuttal Zelda. I find that a lot of these christian zealots would love, love, love to be equated with the persecuted of the world, as if we are persecuting them for their religion. The fact is, nobody gives a flip what religion they have, they are entitled to be and do just about whatever they want. If they want to have 20 kids, they can. If they want to have crazy views, they can. But for some reason that's not enough. They feel this insane need to PUSH it onto other people and dominate them. Ironic, but it doesn't surprise me as those who are most frequently accusers are most often the perpetrators.

Why don't we sit down to a nice breakfast of scrambled chicken fetuses and some baby lamp chops and discuss this matter before we head out to the woods to hunt Bambi's mom for tomorrow's dinner table?
There is a place for all of God's creatures: right next to the potatoes and gravy.
Don't claim to be pro-life unless you're going 100% for all life.
Isn't that life-loving God you cite also the same one who authorized the slaughter of thousands of virgins in the Old Testament? What were they guilty of?

The Colonel

Why did the government get into the abortion fray?
As usual, it is the money. As long as a woman way paying her physician privately there was no uproar-it was a matter of choice. But when the Powers That Be wanted a bigger bureauracy so Poor Women could Have A Choice to get an abortions, then abortion became an open battle. Not about right/wrong but about the money.

I am a soldier. I have recently heard several minorities refer to the United States as Nazis. I have a feeling that this is coming out of a local university's poli-sci class (a radical instructor). My question, does saying such things to soldiers in the time time of war qualify as sedition? Where is the FBI? Or would acting on this make us a bunch of Nazi?