Arkansas Blog

The one disturbing fact in this article is that this "man" founded his own church. To me, any church founded on the principles of an individual is akin to someone "founding" a business or corporation and reaping the benefits thereof.

Megachurches today usually depend on the charisma of an individual to lead it and to rake in the "profits."

That is totally unreal. The church does not exist to glorify ONE political party....it exists to glorify GOD. Bravo to the minister for knowing the difference.

Thank God for small miracles. As we see how wrong the "political idoloators" of the fundamantalist world seek the destruction of planet earth, what else are they wrong about? If they're so off the mark with their politics, they must be wrong about their faith. It's time more fundamentalist leaders find their wits and stop propagating misery for the masses. Like the apostle Paul complained in one of his epistles to various congregations: The people wish to have their ears tickled with what they want to hear, not what they need to hear. At this point, more hateful right-wing populist politics is not what the people of the fundamentalist chruches need to hear. Particularly since "Christian" colleges and universities really aren't sending their young charges the message that service in a war they support so strongly might be the next step in their political development. Hearts of iron, feet of clay; reminiscent of the Israelites of the Book of Judges. The Ronnie Floyds of the world continue to talk the great talk of the conservative gospel. I rmember the story of the Christ diving the moneylenders from the temple; Floyd's megamonolithic orgy of evangelistic religion in the richest community in Arkansas(Pinnacle) is proof positive that the moneylenders have retaken the temple. If he wants to save the souls of the least of his brethren, might Floyd have located a church in east Rogers of east Springdale where poorer migrants have found refuge in NW AR? Ronnie Fraud is more like it.

Here's the ten signs I read daily to keep away from such God fearing megachurch cults.

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundie

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheist's, but you have no problem believing in a Trinity god.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" -- including women, children, and trees

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loop-holes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects -- will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet you consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving".

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to prove Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -- but still call yourself a Christian.

http://www.edkrebs.com/herb/petoons11/index.htm

nice of all of you to criticize and comment on churches, yet seen by your posts you didn't even GO TO CHURCH this morning~!

(i just got home)

Hey Anon 11:59--going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than sitting in a garage makes you a mechanic.
I believe Jesus is the son of God, sent here to die for my sins, that he arose on the third day, ascended to Heaven and I've made a public profession of faith.

That I don't attend an organized church now doesn't change my belief in any of those things. I pray, sing hymns whenever I feel inspired, help those I can and live my faith as God and I have discussed.

BWDIK,

You could make your point without sounding like an atheist Rush Limbaugh or Anne Coulter. It weakens your position to stereotype and make fun of fundamentalists rather than simply relating the facts.

Congratulations on your superiority, Anon 11:59. Slammin' folks for not attending church this a.m., in your ever-so Christian way.

People like you are the morons that make good practicing Christians look bad.

It seems to me the pastor in the article is right on track. Separation of church and state behooves us all...I don't want religious zealots in my government making key policy decisions any more than you want an opposing denomination making key policy decisions...

Walk the walk, Anon...and THINK...it's patriotic...

Wow!!! BWDIK you are proof that idots can type.

Bravo to this pastor for not getting in the middle of "political issues" and just preaching the Bible.

As Christians we need to support the canidates who support our values and encourge them to vote as such.

Just as liberals want to support canidates that support their ideas.

That is what America is about. The problem is when a small minority of people make a lot of noise about their issue and demand that the majority fall in line with what they belive. It was not designed that way, but sometimes threats and money (ACLU) will influence good people to make bad decisions.

>>>I've made a public profession of faith.>>

EY,

Intrigued about something. Where in the Bible, especially in the New Testament, does it say to acccept Jesus Christ it has to be made a public profession?

Didn't He say to avoid those temples (churches) and not to pray in them? He said to pray in a closet in secret.

He also said that if you wan'ted to pray to open the door and step outside, look up in the sky and speak to your Father directly.

On another note: my mom was afraid of fundies. When one relative would try to come over and 'convert' us (back then) Baptist heathens to 'Christianity" she would grab her purse, her keys and say she had to go. Smart woman

hey BWDIK,

what will happen to you when you die

BWDIK:

Love the Fundie Top 10. Absolutely true!! People don't realize that 'Xtian' movement is an ever growing Guyana with a multitude of Jim Jones waiting to pop.

The poster who said what will happen to you when you die - Well that's for God to decide and for the Judgement, now isn't it anonymous.

"Judge not lest ye be judged'.

There's a sucker Born-Again every minute!

hey BWDIK,
what will happen to you when you die
Posted by: Anonymous

Let's just say that when I enter the pearly's it want be the same pearly's you enter and that in itself will make me happy.

For anon 1:03:

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For most churches (I've actually done this at a Methodist and Baptist church), baptism and becoming a member of the church requires a profession to the other church members that you have accepted Christ into your life. This is often referred to as a "public profession", although you certainly could argue that it's not THAT public.

I actually take the "pray in your closet" verse very seriously. I consider my faith a matter between myself and God. Not myself and a political party, or the prevailing government. Which is why I am distressed at the way many people want to require politicians (and indeed, the whole political process) to reflect their specific variety of faith. I think we have way too many examples from history and events today that show us it leads to needless bloodshed.

Christianity today is nothing like Christianity was in the past. Christianity has a bloody and violent past.

Recall the Spanish Inquisition. Citizens were forced into a manner of Christian faith and beliefs through torture.

Recall when W initially referred to the imminent thrust of Western coalition forces into Iraq as "Crusaders". Why did that earn the ire of the Islamic nations?

Well, the Crusades were a form of barbaric evangelical Christianity on a culture of people of different faith. Beheadings, amputations, and torture were used as a way to ensure the faith was spread with success and little resistance.

Christians today would be well served to recognize this violent past, not cast judgment on even the rest of their fellow Christians, let alone other faiths, and excuse the rest of the world for not seeing the Christian faith as all that wonderful.

By the way, it was once considered heresy in the Christian church to speak or interpret The Bible in any language other than Hebrew punishable by - you guessed it - a most slow and painful death. Why is it OK then for most of America to read The Bible today in -gasp - English?

From Independent Congressman Ron Paul adding some balance to the question of political activity and the churches of America.

IRS Threatens Political Speech
July 24, 2006

Five years ago, I wrote about threats made by the Internal Revenue Service against conservative churches for supposedly engaging in politicking. Today, the IRS is again attempting to chill free speech, sending notices to more than 15,000 non-profit organizations; including churches, regarding its new crackdown on political activity.

But what exactly constitutes political activity? What if a member of the clergy urges his congregation to work toward creating a pro-life culture, when an upcoming election features a pro-life candidate? What if a minister admonishes churchgoers that homosexuality is sinful, when an initiative banning gay marriage is on an upcoming ballot? Where exactly do we draw the line, and when does the IRS begin to violate the First amendments guarantee of free exercise of religion?

I agree with my colleague Walter Jones of North Carolina that the political views of any particular church or its members are none of the governments business. Congressman Jones introduced legislation that addresses this very serious issue of IRS harassment of churches engaging in conservative political activity. This bill is badly needed to end the IRS practice of threatening certain politically disfavored faiths with loss of their tax-exempt status, while ignoring the very open and public political activities of other churches.

While some well-known leftist preachers routinely advocate socialism from the pulpit, many conservative Christian and Jewish congregations cannot present their political beliefs without risking scrutiny from the tax collector.

The supposed motivation behind the ban on political participation by churches is the need to maintain a rigid separation between church and state. However, the First amendment simply prohibits the federal government from passing laws that establish religion or prohibit the free exercise of religion. There certainly is no mention of any "separation of church and state," yet lawmakers and judges continually assert this mythical doctrine.

The result is court rulings and laws that separate citizens from their religious beliefs in all public settings, in clear violation of the free exercise clause. Our Founders never envisioned a rigidly secular public society, where people must nonsensically disregard their deeply held beliefs in all matters of government and politics. They certainly never imagined that the federal government would actively work to chill the political activities of some churches.

Speech is speech, regardless of the setting. There is no legal distinction between religious expression and political expression; both are equally protected by the First amendment. Religious believers do not drop their political opinions at the door of their place of worship, nor do they disregard their faith at the ballot box. Religious morality will always inform the voting choices of Americans of all faiths.

The political left, however, seeks to impose the viewpoint that public life must be secular, and that government cannot reflect morality derived from faith. Many Democrats, not all, are threatened by strong religious institutions because they want an ever-growing federal government to serve as the unchallenged authority in our society. So the real motivation behind the insistence on a separation of church and state is not based on respect for the First amendment, but rather on a desire to diminish the influence of religious conservatives at the ballot box.

The Constitution's guarantee of religious freedom must not depend on the whims of IRS bureaucrats. Religious institutions cannot freely preach their beliefs if they must fear that the government will accuse them of "politics." We cannot allow churches to be silenced any more than we can allow political dissent in general to be silenced. Free societies always have strong, independent institutions that are not afraid to challenge and criticize the government.

Anonymous 11:59: What does attendance at church have to do with BWDIK's privilege and ability to comment on this subject?

And do you have BWDIK under surveillance or something? Otherwise, how do you know whether he/she didn't attend church this morning?

Many churches have 8:00 a.m. Sunday services; some meet on Fridays and Saturdays.

Pardon me, but your sanctimony is showing... and so is your ignorance.

Churches that are involved in politics are not churches.

To say that losing non-profit status as an organization is silencing a church is pure nonsense. You didn't see the apostles worrying about their tax status.

We're not talking about independent institutions that aren't afraid to criticize the government, we're talking about churches that are essentially part of the government.

Say what you want and do what you want, just don't expect my tax dollars to support your political action committee / church.

I agree with DCNwA. Now kick back with a beer (its ok, Proverbs 31-7 "Drink so that you might forget your poverty & remember your misery no more"), The IRS has no business threatening churches tax exempt status because churches should pay taxes also. The bible says something about rendering unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's. Why should a church, which is a basically a social club, get a tax break that a bar or other social club doesn't get. Think how much more money the schools would have if the hundreds of millions $'s of value facilities were subject to property taxes.

Any God who runs a spiritual concentration camp in the after-life and uses extortion and fear to get his way definitely deserves to be in politics.

Just look at A. Hitler.

Vote God, Vote Hate, Vote Bigotry, Vote Ignorance, and Vote Mass Mind Control.

It's all about power since the first shaman appeared on the scene and still is. By citing the unknowable myseries of life and some priestly mumbo-jumbo, they've laid claim to the right to rule the lives of others.

The true evil is the desire for power over other humans and all wickedness stems from this. It is so damnably ironic that it is the church that is so good at it when it purports to be the vessel to bring God's love to mankind.

Do you really want to worship a Nazi? Really think about how they ran their concentration camps and the criteria they used. Sounds too much like Hell to me.

Col Travesty

The Churches Job is to preach truth. It is impossible to wholeheartedly support truth while supporting men or parties with swaying views and questionable motives. As Romans 1 teaches we are accountable for who and what we endorse.

My favorite religious trick comes from the Tibetan Book of the Dead where believers are encouraged to feed the Lammas for 49 days while the deceased makes up their mind that they are best off staying dead.

I really had to hold my tongue listening to the after church crowd earlier. There really is little room for religious discussion in intelligent conversation unless one is talking about anthropology. Otherwise it is theology and then you have already begged the question. Gilbert Ryle called it a category mistake. Wittgenstein was a little more tolerant w language games. But the absolutism required to make this transcendental twaddle real is not readily accessible to anyone who hasn't taken the pledge. Sometimes it's a matter of sprinkling vs full immersion but it is always political in its most primal form. And protection from having to fall under the whip of another's metaphysic is essential to freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Not 'freedom from religion' because there is little doubt of the influences that religious thought has on our mores. But certainly freedom from the tyranny of any one religion is integral to the right to worship, speak, and pursue happiness.

Of course if you're a full immersion sort you just said, "Bullshit, you're gonna burn." The perhaps more practical Buddhist said, "Pass that tray of sandwiches down here, please, and thank you."

Is it OK to be a non-believer? Is it OK to go thru life ignoring all this church stuff? Do any of you believe a non-believer can be a good person, a good spouse, a good parent, a good American? I ask this seriously.

Romans 10:9 (King James Version)
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Does this mean deaf people are not allowed in heaven?

"One man's religion is another man's belly laugh."
Isacc Azimov

"A religion which requires persecution to sustain it is of the devil's propagation."
Hosea Ballou

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."
Napoleon

"A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side."
Aristotle

"Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society."
Thomas Jefferson

Yes, DBI is is fine to be a non-believer.
Even though I consider myself a Christian, I wonder sometimes if it is all voo-doo. I go to church, pray to God daily, and yet I have questions. Why do children die in war? Why are children abused? Why do teenagers kill for the thrill? Why did my daughter die? I have hundreds of questions, and few answers. I do think, however, that my faith in a higher power has helped me to stay sane in an insane world.
As a Democrat who believes in helping the little guy, the working class, minorities, and the poor, the homeless, I am distressed that the Republicans have hijacked religion and used it for their own gain.
I know this: the day that my pastor publicly endorses a Republican for any office is the day that I jump up, raise holy blue hell, and walk out.

I wish there was a party that mixed the democrat side of "fighting for the oppressed" with the republican side of fighting for some sort of moral code (trying to lessen the # of abortions, keeping marraige 1 man 1 woman, not gay marriage or polygamy) without being HATEFUL.

I would vote for that party in a second, and I'm dead serious.

Unfortunately, that sounds like the exact teaching of Christ, and because humans are so screwed up, we will never make that junk... until then the repubs are stuck with the Jerry Falwell fringe and the dems have their fringe in Cindy Sheehan/Janine Garafalo types... If only both parties could ditch the fringes, it would win every election with at least 70% of the vote...

Oh well, It won't happen but i wish it would - the current state is too bizzare anyway

Current dems = try to save the rapist but discard the fetus; feel pain for the dead terrorist children in lebanon but rationalize stem cells as "science"

Current repubs = claim to be Fiscally sound but spent $900 BILLION more than when clinton was around; say they care about nat'l security but our borders are still as porous as ever..

I wish they would mix, and come with a centrist 3rd party that fit my ideals i said at the top.

Oh well.

"feel pain for the dead terrorist children"

There are so many ways to go with the above statement. It's like picking apples off a very short tree......

So we should feel pain over the loss of a little bit of goo that some Sonic teenage waitress paid to be rid of in OKC. But there is something wrong with us if we feel pain over the death of child of a terrorist or a terrorist child, whatever the hell that might mean? Or just some Lebanese kid who was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

In the words of our current President's old sow of a mother....I can't waste my beautiful mind on such a thought. You amaze me GetReal.....and not in a good way.

Thanks DBI

I don't mind that you hate all Christians

I just earnestly wish you'd give Christ another chance.

Christians are screwups, but Christ is not.

(and in no way did I mean that i DONT feel bad for the hezbollah's kids in lebanon -- i do... i just meant why scream "life! life!" for those kids, terrorists or not, but not at the planned parenthood clinic.

just to clear that up.

oh well. goodnight.)

I do not hate Christians. I hate it when Christians feel they have to inject God into everything. I spent the weekend with the Auntie who basically said the Bible makes it OK to kill anyone who doesn't see it the Christian's way.

I can't go there. I can't be concerned for those unborn, the born takes up 100% of my time. I can't hear the unborn's screams like you can, but I sure as hell can hear the screams of those who have been born when they are dying or standing over their dead children.

Maybe this will work. Think of the unfertilized eggs that are being lost every time a female child dies in the Middle East. If we're going to go that far, think of the millions of life giving sperm that are lost every time a little boy is blown to bits in the Middle East. Think on that while you go to bed!

"basically said" - i hardly think your Auntie advocates "killing all of 'em", or else she isn't exactly (or at all) following the teachings of Jesus... i think the whole "everyone is equal in God's eyes" part might have escaped her.

I'm just saying, you post a lot about your hate of 'religion' and about 'a God who failed you' and 'turning your back on the church'

The church gets bad press - and rightfully so lately - about screwups. But for every Ronnie Floyd there is a soup kitchen, a food pantry, a batttered women's shelter, a support group for abortion even after the church fought against abortion... go to any school district IN THE STATE and ask if anyone contributes free school supplies or coats for the underprivileged kids... in 9 out of 10 districts individual churches provide all this.

I'm just saying, I don't know why you hate it so much, but forgiveness works - that's what Christ taught.

*The alternative? The world can go ahead and keep hating each other.. how is HATE working out???? What would the middle east be like if someone would say "ok, i forgive you".

I'm assuming the church spurned you in the past but there's so much more good things it does than bad... and in the end forgiving feels better than hate. (i think Jesus was right on that one)

Ok, I've said my peace. I'm off this board. Like, forever (so yes, assume anyone with this posting name is NOT me)

People suck, but God is perfect

"*The alternative? The world can go ahead and keep hating each other.. how is HATE working out???? What would the middle east be like if someone would say "ok, i forgive you"."

This is the correct Christian answer. If you "inject God into everything" you are injecting love into everything.

As I've said before, I see little difference between a soldier killing someone, an abortion, and a jury/judge/prosecutor killing someone. Society permits, even encourages those deaths, but does God?

You'll notice that after 9-11 there wasn't much outpouring of Christian ideals. There wasn't much turning of the other cheek so much as kill them all & let God sort it out. Does Jehovah care more for what you say you'll do when things are good or what you really do when things are bad? What if you believe the science that comforts you (i.e. fetuses develop into babies) but ignore the science that troubles you (i.e. zygotes are not babies)? Can I pick & choose the biblical passages to believe? Can I choose to believe Leviticus 18:22 (Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.) but ignore Leviticus 21: 5 (They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh.) Can I choose not to study my belief system so as to indignantly proclaim falsehoods & blasphemies (such as 'America is a light unto the world' or 'We'll destroy all evil')? How many times do you have to be proven wrong (Galileo, Inquisition, slavery, the Holocaust, inter-racial marriage) before you'll stop whining about your faux prosecution?

"I condemn false prophets, I condemn the effort to take away the power of rational decision, to drain people of their free will -- and a hell of a lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in their degree of idiocy, but I reject them all. For most people, religion is nothing more than a substitute for a malfunctioning brain."
Gene Roddenberry

Isn't holding up a political party as the paragon of virtue and considering politicians to be prophets called "idolatry"?

Isn't Gluttony as much a deadly sin as Lust? Where are the sermons on the 70% of Americans who are overweight?

Isn't Wrath as much a deadly sin as Lust? How can "Christians" stand at the cemetary during military funerals with signs that say "God Hates Fags".

Lastly, isn't Pride as much a deadly sin as all the others, and as I recall, the sin that "comes before the fall"?

Remember the sin that forced God to cast the most beautiful angel in heaven, Lucifer, into hell was the sin of Pride. Lucifer placed himself in the place of God. He thought he could compete with God. He was not God. Neither are evangelicals.

WHAT A GREAT ARTICLE. I SAW IT IN THE SUNDAY TIMES, FOUND IT ON THEIR WEBSITE, AND HAVE FORWARDED IT TO SO MANY PEOPLE ALREADY.

PREACHING TO THE CHOIR, OF COURSE.

MORE GOD-FEARING, CHURCH-GOING DEMOCRATS LIKE ME NEED TO SPEAK OUT LIKE THIS. WE DO NOT NEED A CHRISTIAN THEOCRACY IN AMERICA. SPAIN HAD ONE ONCE, AS I RECALL. IT IS SOMETIMES CALLED THE SPANISH INQUISITION.

This statement by GetReal 11:22 PM

"with the republican side of fighting for some sort of moral code (trying to lessen the # of abortions,"

Couldn't be farther from the truth. If the Republicans wanted to reduce the actual number of abortions, they would be all for all forms of contraception being taught about and available to teenagers. That is what the Democrats are interested in, lowering the ACTUAL number of abortions wanted, while still allowing safe ones to be performed.

The Republicans don't want fewer abortions. They want to punish any women that have sex, for whatever reason whether wanted or not, by expecting them to live (or die) with any possible results. If they REALLY wanted fewer abortions, they would be all for contraceptions taught thoroughly and early, along with it being available. The countries that do that have much lower abortion rates and their teens are less likely to marry young and have sex when young.

Get real, you NEED TO GET REAL.