Arkansas Blog

LBJ's Great Society was a failure in 1964 and is still a failure today, costing the tax payers billions for nothing.

Woods' book should be interesting. It will be hard to beat Robert Caro's multi-volume biography of Johnson, however, which broke new ground on Johnson's early life and especially his Senate career. The final volume of Caro's biography, dealing with Johnson's presidency, has not bee published, so Woods' book could be a nice addition to it. Johnson is such a fascinating character, because he's the only post-WWII example of an effective member of Congress who became president (Nixon and Kennedy were also senators, but not every effective ones). Should be a good read.

My memories of LBJ are more personal. He was the guy that was going to send me to Vietnam. I don't hold it against him just that I was scared about the prospect. So I voluntered for the Service.

I also remember the huge costs of the Great Society. People today talk about the deficit and the debt but they were considered a really big deal during the Great Society. Johnson's legislative experience served him well in getting a tremendous amount of bills passed but he wasn't terribly adept as a chief executive.

The Great Society Legislation moblizied the wealthy right ala Hunts, etc., since they were against the "leveling" programs LBJ advocated. They established their own media, print and broadcating, to attack the the Great Society as "communism/socialism" since the Great Society legislation called for a restribution of wealth. The Hunts and their colleagues were successful in 1980, getting their man Ronald Reagan elected. He immediately fulfilled their dreams by calling for redistribution of wealth upward, with Supply Side econmics which promised wonder economic explosions, Needless to say, it proved as unable to fulfill the promises made by the Reagan minions as those made by the Great Society pushers.

What are you talking about Cato? Since 1980 the U.S.economy has grown out of control. Cutting taxes has been the best thing that ever happened to the U.S.

LBJ could never get the Democratic nomination today - he would be torn to shreds on this blog and his anti-poverty programs would never see the light of day because all the left would talk about was how he treated his beagle pup and how he wasn't too keen on man on man sex.

I'm with you 100% Cato and since Johnson said we just lost the South when he signed the Civil Rights Act, Johnson knew he and his party were going to take a horrible hit for doing the right thing....about 100 years late.

I have had a love/hate relationship with Johnson since Kennedy was assassinated. My wife and I were just talking about this the night before last. Until Johnson became President everyone on TV except the Real McCoy's lived on the east coast, lived in the suburbs, relaxed around the house after work in a suit and tie and spoke with an educated Northern accent.

I remember being 9 years old and sitting on the couch and seeing this ugly old man who talked just like us speaking to the world.....and it was very confusing. I wish it had told me that little boys in small towns in the South could grow up to be President, but it didn't. It just confused me. How could that old farmer looking and talkin guy be the most powerful person in the world?

I think maybe Johnson was the beginning of the shift away from all TV shows, and all movies showing Americans as being someone like Fred Astaire or Rob and Laura Petrie. Not bad people, just not people I ever saw in Fort Smith growing up.

We've sure enjoyed Caro's books and look forward to the last one. I'll pick up Randall Woods book as soon as I can.

You have to say one thing for old Johnson, at the end he was honest enough and bright enough to know when he was whipped. The Vietnam War killed him as sure as it killed the other 58,000 soldiers, it just took till 1973 to get him. We cannot expect common sense to drop on Bush-Cheney-Rove. They'll kill our kids until the rest of the world comes to kill us.

Warts and all, we'd be a whole lot better off if LBJ was President today.

Anonymous 11:07 AM:

Just like GWB, a failure before the WH, a failure in the WH and a failure after the WH. In fact his whole life has been a failure mitigated only by daddy's cronies.

Much like Anonymous himself I'd bet.

Hey 70%...what does 70% mean? 70% of the time you are whining..70% of the time you spend being envious of the folks who make the bucks...70% of the time trying to figure out how to get us to pay you for not working...What do you do the other 30% ? let me guess...you clean gutters in Hillcrest !!!! ....... NW Ark Guy

LBJ was also a supporter of gay marriage.

70% of the time I spend trying to figure out which cowardly Anonymous is which.

I thought anonypus said he was going to quit. Damnit.

The LBJ thing really brings back a lot of memories. Today when I hear democrats talking about fiscal responsibility, the deficit and the debt I keep remembering back then when they could care less. It was the republicans who were yelling about spending too much. If you live long enough you end of seeing these kind things from politicians.

"What are you talking about Cato? Since 1980 the U.S.economy has grown out of control. Cutting taxes has been the best thing that ever happened to the U.S."

Hmmm. Cutting taxes? On whom? Sure hope you are around when your grandkids have to pick up the credit card bill when it comes due. $9 trillion and growing. Your statement is true if you apply it to a certain class of Americans. It is true we have more rich people in America than ever before. It is also true we have more poor people in Amercan than ever before.

I am going to assume, Anonymous, you are of the old Republican school of balanced budgets, less government and shrinking National Debts and that you know the past history of the Republican Party's opposition to pump priming the economy. What has happened? We move from the oldt business mans' thinking to that of Vice President Cheney's comment, "Deficits don't matter." Are you now a convert ot the new neo-con school of economics?

A condensed look at the past, back when the Gipper took office.

When Reagan ran for president in 1980, in the tradition of Republican candidates, he attacked inflation as an imminent danger to the Republic and laid the blame at the feet of federal deficits. He pledged that his economic program (supply side economics) deficit spending would cease with a balanced budget in 1983, a small surplus ($28 billion) in 1984 and a huge surplus of $93 billion in 1985.

Reagan attacked the Carter administration for "using misguided policies of the past" and for using "irresponsible government spending" which caused, according to candidate Reagan, "massive government deficits."

The first day of October, 1981, President Reagan held a news conference and announced, "On this date I signed a bill that raises the debt ceiling to a trillion dollars. That figure can stand as a monument to the policies of the past that brought about this debt - policies which, as of today, are reversed. Those times are over. On this day, our economic recovery begins. Spending cuts...take effect today will put America back on the road to economic recovery."

Here's the record on deficits:
Carter:
1979....27.7 billion
1980....59.7 billion
1981....57.9 billion

Reagan:
1982...110 billion
1983...210 billion
1984...201 billion
1985...208 billion

It took 39 presidents to create a National Debt of one trillion dollars. Reagan doubled it in four years to two trillion.

1) Presidents Reagan and Bush submitted 12 budgets to Congress - none of them balanced-- all calling for huge increases in government spending and record borrowing and deficits. Congress reduced the
spending requests in 10 of their budgets.

2). When Reagan took office, the USA was the great creditor nation (nations borrowed from us). When he left, the USA was the great debtor nation (we have to borrow from other nations to pay our bills.)

3). The Stock Market recorded a collapse in October 1987 greater than October 1929. This '87 collapse was surpassed in April 1988.

When Reagan took office in 1981:
---Our trade deficit was $25 billion. It soon reached $150 billion.
---The unemployment rate was 7.1 %. By 1983 it was over 10 %.
---The federal tax on gasoline was 4c a gallon. He asked Congress to raise it to 9c per gallon.
---Bank failures averaged 1-3 a year. They soon reached 80 per year (185 failed in 1987).
---American hostages held:0. When Reagan left office: 7 (one for 4 years).

By the time Reagan left office, seven special government prosecutors were investigating over 100 Reagan appointees for corruption in office. Several wound up in prison.

When you are comparing deficts of various administrations over several years you have to adjust for inflation. You haven't done that. No question it has risen a lot but you can't tell how much until you make that adjustment.

Anonymous 03:18 PM (sigh, another anonymous).

Cato writes:
Carter:
1979....27.7 billion
1980....59.7 billion
1981....57.9 billion

Reagan:
1982...110 billion
1983...210 billion
1984...201 billion
1985...208 billion

And the anonypussy objects that he didn't include inflation. Maybe he didn't maybe he did, hard to tell at a glance.

But a blind hog can see that Reagan's $208 B is many times greater than Carter's puny $50 some B. And only inflation on the order of Argentina would account for that.

Repukes have been trying to destroy the federal gov't by spending it into oblivion. They forget that's exactly what happened to the ex Soviet Union. We'll soon be joining them on the ash heap of history - thanks Repukes!!!

(When our invitro failed a second time we were very saddened. But, now it might be a blessing that we won't be cursed by name by grandkids & great grandkids for our profligate ways.) I hope all the anonypussies defending this travesty will one day see their grandchildren curse their memory.

Why did you stop at Reagan? What about Bush 1 and Clinton?

I'm a big LBJ fan. The good stuff- VRA, Civil Rights Act and yes, the Great Society. Have to give someone credit for wanting/working to erase poverty. The bad stuff oddly enough- over extending power, the lies, Vietnam- are also "positive" to me- I think his weaknesses show how a president shouldnt be. Good deeds as well as mistakes make for good reference points.

"Why did you stop at Reagan? What about Bush 1 and Clinton?"

The string gets way too long. Besides, there are plenty of good libraries around where the interested can find the information. I did include Bush 1 budgets with Reagan since those 4 years are just extensions of the Reagan years, although Bush did in 1980 refer to Reagan's campaign rhetoric as "voodoo economics."

Allow me say a few other things about Reagan's policies, since this is when the GOP abandoned their age old stance against deficit spending and growing National Debts.

When Reagan became President in 1981, inflation was soaring. The price of oil under Carter had gone from $3.50 a barrel to $33.00 a barrel. Under Reagan, inflation dropped to the general area of 5 % a year as fuel dropped to $11.00 a barrel. At the end of his 8 years, most goods cost 40 % more than they did when he took office. But get this: the minimum wage was $3.35 an hour when he took office. When he left 8 years later and inflation has eaten away at the earnings of the low level wage earners, the minimum wage was still $3.35 per hour. Nothing was done in those 8 years to help those people to deal with the inflation.

A few more comments in passing:

Despite Reagan's 1980 vow, government was bigger when he left office than when he was inaugurated. Although he is a towering symbol of commitment to smaller government, lower taxes and reduced federal spending, he achieved none of those goals.

He taxed the American people as heavily as Ford and Carter did. His budgets took more of America's collective wealth in taxes - 19.3 % - than the 19.2 % that Carter's did.

His great achievement on federal spending was not to cut it but to shift America's spending priorities. The nation's defense industries, agribusinesses and the elderly got sharply higher shares of the federal money than they had before. The poor and state and local governments got dramatically less.

Similarly, Reagan did not cut taxes. He cut marginal income-tax rates, especially for the wealthy and corporations but raised Social Security taxes significantly. Together, those changes did not lessen the tax burden borne by the economy but shifted it.

The debt ran up by Reagan dwarfed all his other budgetary acheivements and set records that were beaten by two other Republican presidents: Bush one and Bush two.

Long accusing Democrats of being big deficit spenders, the GOP has put itself at the top of the heap in that category due to the budgets and lack of revenue by the past three GOP presidents.

The really interesting scenario would be a meeting between LBJ and Dubya. LBJ would chew Bush up and spit him out like cheap tobacco.

LBJ actually owned and ran a real ranch, not the sort-of-working-ranch Bush has in Crawford.

LBJ is the only president actually born and raised entirely in Texas. Dubya was born in Connecticut and graduated from a Yankee prep high school, Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts. George Bush Senior was born in Massachusetts and also graduated from Phillips Academy.

http://experts.about.com/e/p/ph/Phillips_Academy.htm

LBJ's faults as president were many (the Vietnam War is a big one, along with misleading the public about the justification for getting involved) but on balance LBJ used the power of the presidency to make the nation a better place.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, Medicare, Head Start and funding for higher education are just a few examples.

Republicans claim the Great Society was a socialist boondoggle. Not all of the programs worked, but overall they expanded opportunity for millions of Americans and restored basic rights to millions of disenfranchised African-Americans.

LBJ wasn't a tax and spender--he got JFK's tax cut passed in 1964, but knew the difference between responsibly cutting taxes to stimulate the economy and irresponsibly cutting taxes to further enrich the wealthy at the expense of students, the poor and the elderly.

One of LBJ's famous sayings certainly applies to Dubya:

"He's so dumb he can't fart and chew gum at the same time."

LBJ became president by accident, as we all know. He was selected as the runningmate for JFK in 1960 because he was a Democrat from the South, a strong hot bed of anti- Catholicism. LBJ was chosen for his geographical importance, much as was Senator Joe T. Robison [Ark.] in 1928 for Al Smith's running mate (Smith was a Catholic).

In the 1964 presidential campaign, he rejected his Republican opponent's war strategy of escalation, promising to not send "American boys to fight wars that Asian boys should fight." Goldwater's escalation campaign, plus his Republican strong stand against Social Security, allowed LBJ to sweep the election to the White House.

LBJ turned out to be a liar. He no sooner was sworn in than he adopted Goldwater's advocation for escalation in the Vietnam War, using as an excuse the fake Vietnamese PT Boat attack against the 7th Fleet in the Tonkin Gulf. He launched Operation Rolling Thunder, began immediate increasement of American troops and as these actions did not improve the Vietnam situation, he lied to the American people about the successes, much like the present administration does with it's bungled war in Iraq. The similarities are very obvious.

As the American public turned against LBJ, his party became fractionalized and he lost the party's support. Thus, his announcement that he would not seek his party's nomination in 1968 was a foregone conclusion, at least to Eugene McCarthy.

"---American hostages held:0. When Reagan left office: 7 (one for 4 years)."

I bet Jimmy Carter could tell you this faster than anyone.

Reagan, of course, had made a big campaign issue of the hostage situation, pledging no American hostages would be taken during his tenure without swift and immediate retribution and their being freed from their captors. Another impossible campaign promise to keep, of course.

A very interesting thread. It has not been mentioned that Mr. Woods is a good teacher and a nice man though.

Must have new Caro novel now! Can't wait any longer. I check his web page daily but the whole thing is dead. I only hope Mr. Caro is not...

Randall and his lovely wife and children were well known to me in the 70s and 80s. On that evidence alone I can agree with wilco. It's nice to see he's still excelling in his career. More of the best to him.

The Great Society was never fully funded but it still reduced national poverty.

If for nothing but the passage of the Voting Rights Act, an absolute miracle of political genius on LBJ's part, he must remembered and counted as an effective politician who stuck to a principle of doing the right thing. As for the sorrowful tragedy of the Vietnam War, LBJ did not single-handedly create the mistakes that wrongly cost us so many lives. He admitted his failure by not running and he grieved for the war's costs, two things more than we can see Bush doing, ever. He was a flawed president but a giant figure of history. Caro's books are absolutely required reading for their depth of revelation in how his power was acquired and wielded. I hope Dr. Woods' book adds to our understanding of the forces that most affected the Baby Boomers' lifetimes.