Arkansas Blog

I didn't write this but wish I had. Besides it's superior than anything I could write any hoo.

It's the system, stupid!

America is in free fall - a failed nation led by failed leaders with failed ideas serving a lemming-like populace that views failure as an acceptable alternative. Today's America is flawed in so many ways that analysis of the complex events that led us to the precipice is difficult at best. How did we get here? Can we save what once was a great country built upon noble notions of freedom? Is redemption possible or even desirable? It is easy to point blame at George W. Bush. He is a monumental failure as a President, a serial liar who led this nation into a war that cannot be won. He and those who both serve and advise him systematically dismantled the Constitution, trampled the freedoms upon which that hallowed document is based and destroyed a democratic republic that has stood the test of time, bad leaders and assaults for more than two centuries. Bush, however, capitalized on a system of government that has been failing for decades, seizing opportunity made possible by an ever-increasing federal bureaucracy, rampaging government waste and corruption and constant, unrelenting assaults upon our individual freedoms and rights.

Excellent BWC!

There are real root causes that can be seen with little doubt.

Greed has replaced prosperity, Ambition the common good, a poor excuse for religion enduring faith, spin replaces truth, the quick gain above building for the future, and government over the power of the freedom.

As they say about the stock market, we're due for a correction, if not a free fall.

Thanks. Who wrote that?

Please. Democrats and liberals go only see the faults and problems that face America. We have always had problems. We always will. But America is where I will place my bets on the future. Where do you guys intend to place your futures?

ARK. BLOGTell it to Colin Powell, Lindsey Graham, John Waner and John McCain, all Republicans with (unlike Bush) honorable service records.

Yeah, Hank, and Republicans think George W. Bush is doing a good job. Denial is not a river in Egypt. You have to acknowledge a problem to fix it. Or, like any alcoholic, you can wait until you hit bottom.

I hope we are fine here for awhile. I'll be here as long as it is safe.

Colin Powell will have to work hard to regain any prestige he had with me. His collusions with the Rove people about Iraq has tainted him to no end and I don't know if he will recover or not.

There have always been politicians that are willing to stake a position based upon prevailing winds and opinions at any point in time. Its just like the stock market. There are daily fluctuations based upon what everyone thinks is going to happen and their are longer term trends that will reflect the reality of the economy. McCain and company are trying to reflect the current attitudes of the day. In the long run, the course that Bush has pursued will be proven correct.

-borrowed

Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-LA), for one, decided she'd had enough.

"In light of the rantings that went on for 30 minutes by two colleagues from the other side, I'd like to state for the record that America is not tired of fighting terrorism; America is tired of the wrongheaded and boneheaded leadership of the Republican party that has sent six and a half billion a month to Iraq while the front line was Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. That led this country to attack Saddam Hussein, when we were attacked by Osama bin Laden. Who captured a man who did not attack the country and let loose a man that did. Americans are tired of boneheaded Republican leadership that alienates our allies when we need them the most. Americans are most certainly tired of leadership that despite documenting mistake after mistake after mistake, even of their own party admitting mistakes, never admit they do anything wrong. That's the kind of leadership Americans are tired of."

She concluded,

"I'm not going to sit here as a Democrat and let the Republican leadership come to the floor and talk about Democrats not making us safe. They're the ones in charge and Osama bin Laden is still at loose."

You have got to be kidding. Quoting Senator Mary Landrieu on whether or not the Republicans are doing a good job of fighting terrorism is like quoting Senator Trent Lott on whether the Democrats are doing a good job at spending other people's money. Neither would have a clue since the Republicans are the ones that we depend upon to protect our country and the Democrats are the ones that we count on to spend other people's money. Mary should stick with what she knows best.

ARK. BLOG Hank, it's a Republican Congress and president that have been running up huge deficits. Read much?

Ah, yes. If only the Democrats were in control the amount of money being spent by this congress would be considerably less. Not true. The only difference would be that spending would be much higher; taxes would be much higher; and the economy would be in the tank due to the higher level of federal monetary confiscation disguised as "taxing the rich." I do read a little, but not as much as you intellectual liberals. I am busy trying to make money to hold my family and this economy together. So excuse me for not having the intellectual capacity to keep up with this debate.

ARK. BLOG All we have on our side are the facts, Hank. Under Clinton, budget surpluses. Under Republicans, deficits. But you confidently proclaim "truth." That's faith-based governance, a la Bush, at its best. If you believe hard enough, it doesn't matter what the facts are. WMD. Mission Accomplished. Greeted as liberators. A handful of dead-enders. Last throes of the insurgency. Etc. Alas, the rest of us are members of the reality-based community. We must endure what you and your idols create. It is true that you are running a little behind in this debate. But I think even you're up to the intellectual challenge. Simple arithmetic is all that's required. And honesty.

You're a true believer Hank; Just the guy to defend the new status quo.

Part of the cause or part of the solution.

"You have got to be kidding."...Posted by: HankRearden

Yep, the Hanks 'R' RIGHT...if they could only remember if they took their medicine today, all would be COOL.

The real question is what exactly is the solution? More spending, more taxes, less defense spendning, more negotiating with terrorists so that we can understand and feel their pain; I really do not consider that to be part of the solution. But, by definition, that is the solution proposed by the liberals and the democrats.

"Democrats are the ones that we count on to spend other people's money."--Hank

Hahahahaha. What an observation! Apparently Hank has no clue about "the other people's money" the GOP administration has been spending for years. Perhaps Hanks grandkids will pee on his grave for not knowing or understanding.

Drinking Kool-Aid in excess can kill brain cells.

Ah, Max. You give me too much credit. I am just a country boy trying to work hard and to make sure that you liberals don't give away the country. Facts as you present them are just that, snippets of information taken out of context. The "surpluses" of the 90's had nothing to do with Clinton policies, and you know it. It had to do with the dot com bubble. The "defecits" of the 2000's really have nothing to do with Bush policies either. The war on terror had to be funded and the economy had to be kept vibrant with tax cuts alongwith a new benefit to Medicare beneficaries that the Democrats screemed was too little too late.

Its hard to prove a negative, but I believe that the world is much better off without Sadaam. The long run will prove Bush correct. You short termers will continue to scream. But thank God for the iron in the blood of our leaders.

Hank Rearden said:

The real question is what exactly is the solution? More spending, more taxes, less defense spending, more negotiating with terrorists so that we can understand and feel their pain;

Hank pleaseee, we need new idea not rehashing garbage speak of yesteryear Repeating old worn out rhetoric is like riding on slick tires they're going flat sooner rather than later.

Apparently Hank is a product of one of our fine rural schools. An example of what a poor education creates - a fool easily sold a bill of goods when attached to some implication that believing anything else isn't manly or godly.

My point exactly. The democrats and the liberals' solution is the same old liberal game plan as we have known it. The American people are smarter than you all think. You guys think you have the November elections all sewn up. I am here to tell you you will not take back the House or the Senate.

Have you noticed that I have not resorted to name calling once. However, the liberal mantra is to begin casting dispersions on my manhood, intelligence and my rural upbringing. Interesting, isn't it?

The "surpluses" of the 90's had nothing to do with Clinton policies, and you know it.

Let me guess: but the deficits of Bush have everything to do with Clinton.

Oh you silly, silly, pathetic man.

With statements such as that, it's evident you know nothing. Remember that.

For anyone interested, difference in economies under the two most recent presidents: http://jec.senate.gov/democrats/Documents/Reports/BushIsNoClinton01sep2006.pdf

You're right Hank. Those tax cuts had nothing to do with the current state of the economy. It's ALL RANDOM!! Anything bad happening under Bush....well, it's not his fault.

Better off without Saddam? One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Filter that through that sponge in your head before commenting further.

Its hard to prove a negative, but I believe that the world is much better off without Sadaam.

The world would be much better off without Bush, too.

If I had to choose the lesser of two evils, Saddam in Iraq is a hell of a lot less dangerous to the future of our planet than Bush in charge of the most powerful military on earth.

But I live off money like everyone else. Hank, are you going to step up and pay my daughter's $20,000 share of the debt you and your klan have run up with corporate welfare and tax cuts for the rich, or do you just reserve your criticism of spending to the Democrats?

The economy is strong and it is because of Bush's policies. We have strong growth; low unemployment; low interest rates; strong home ownership; and the Treasury is receiving more revenue that at any other time in the history of our country.

I hate to quote myself, but I think Hank wants to hear some suggestions and here are some that came to me while adjusting my anti-depressant medicine....product but scary times. Think about it Hank.

You ask for constructive ideas? Here are some that troubled my dreams last night. It's not a complete list, but it's a damn good start.

#1 America first of all must quit being the arms dealer to the world.

For decades bombs and missiles stamped Made in the USA have been sold to various countries around the world in order that they might bomb their neighbors. Every American made weapon that kills splashes some of the guilt back on us. How many lifetimes would you use up trying to punish Mexicans if your entire family had been blown up by a bomb marked Made in Mexico?

#2 America must cut Israel loose and let it sink or swim on its own.

Regardless of their motives, Israel is just another terrorist group like Hamas and Hezbollah. For 58 years Israeli soldiers have killed women and children with the same disregard for life as the Palestinians. It makes no sense for America to back one terrorist group over another. That Israel used American made airplanes, bombs and missiles in the recent war with those in Lebanon just created more enemies for the USA.

Many times parents are forced to cut out their oldest, troubled child in order to save the smaller ones. America must commit this same tragedy and distance themselves from Israel if we ever want to feel safe in our homes again. Bring the Jewish population to the US, give them Utah. If you want peace in the Middle East you must remove the one thing that is not like the other things. Sorry Israel, but life isn't always fair.

#3 America must seek other energy solutions other than oil and stop feeding our junkie habit by rolling over oil producing countries.

Our oil greed has been apparent for decades and after years of besmirching other people's back yards our addiction to oil has led us to declare war on other countries to steal their oil. As oil becomes more scarce the job of controling the supply will become more cut-throat. We have lost 2669 or our fine soldiers in our latest oil grab, a cost far too dear to pay in the future.

#4 America must quit trying to export our values, traditions and form of government on the rest of the world.

America is like the Jehovah's Witnesses shoving a Watch Tower magazine in your hand as you try to flee. It is fine to love your own form of government and lifestyle, but what works for us may not work for others. Attempting to force democracy on the rest of the world makes us appear as fanatical as our enemy. Not everyone can be America Jr., or wants to be. I love Canada, don't want to be them. We must learn to take our place beside the other countries of the world and lose the neo-con fantasy of always being #1.

#5 America must quit supporting and enriching tin horn dictators around the world who will do our bidding for blood money.

Just to touch the tip of the iceberg, the Shaw of Iran was our little buddy until he quit being useful. Noriega in Panama was our little buddy until he quit being useful. Sadam was our little buddy when Rumsfeld was visiting and taking happy pictures, until he quit being useful.

On the day of Anwar Sadat's funeral a dark skinned man came into my favorite bar and glared at the TV as coverage of Sadat's funeral was airing. After a while he started mumbling ugly comments not quite under his breath. The bar owner years ahead of us in his suspicion of people from the Middle East, finally asked the man what he was doing.

We were all surprised when he said he was glad that son of dogs, Anwar Sadat was dead. The man then identified himself as an Egyptian. He said what we Americans didn't know was of the poverty of the average Egyptian. He said our aid money to Egypt was divided up by Sadat and his cronies and none of the aid ever helped a poor Egyptian. Sadat kept the poverty of his country hid, many we support don't bother to cover up their thievery.

And how many dozens and dozens of times can the same thing be said for aid and support the US has sent to other regions of the world. Decades of making the tin horn dictators rich beyond their dreams as the people starved and died without medicine.

#6 With the embarrassing wealth of the United States we can buy everyone on earth a Coke.

Of course the leading cause of crime, unrest and chaos is bone crushing poverty. No one who hasn't eaten this week feels brotherly love towards his neighbors or the US. JFK's Peace Corp has been trampled in the dust by Halliburton types. Our entire foreign policy is based on it's easier to do it and then apologize than it is to ask permission.

Those who think we can kill every terrorist on earth are stupid. As long as 1 person is mad at us our borders are not safe. Bullets will not bring peace. Only negotiation and a real attempt to understand those who are not American will bring peace to the world. When America uses up all it's young and there is no one else to fight in the War on Terror, some smart Democrat will sit down at a table and asked our enemies if we can work out a compromise that will bring peace.

Let's save the lives of our young by starting negotiations now. Training college students to understand those areas of the world that are mysteries to us. Quit looking up to heaven for the answers and start looking at each other. The grandchildren of the world depend on cooler heads saving the day.

Never did I expect to see the USA become the bully of the world. Never did I expect to see us be on the cutting edge of kidnapping and torture. Never did I think our purpose on earth was to serve the Military-Industrial Complex. Never did I expect God to be turned into a ball bat to beat people to death, beat science to death, beat the common sense out of mankind.

I will finish with my new favorite quote I ran across last night. It should be the new US motto.

Alexis de Tocqueville said, "America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great."

He also told this GOP group of ass kisser that gasoline prices would be coming down, "Jest a heads up heh heh." How you think he knows that? HMMMMMM?
What I wouldn't give to see him or Snow Job asked about that by the useless WH press corpse(that is NOT a misspelling).

PS I'm glad Colin Powell finally pulled his head out of Bush's colon. But wonder if he thinks about how many dead people in Iraq on both side wouldn't have had to die if he had told the truth WHEN he was a part of the Bush regime?

This is off topic and unrelated to Arkansas, but it's scary nevertheless. I found it on HuffPo.

http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/videos.html

Why should I think Bush has "iron" in his blood when his basic message has been that America ought to be afraid?
I think the more obvious conclusion is that he has rocks in his head.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm

Midterm wins here we come!

Alexis de Tocqueville said, "America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great."--DBI

I'm sorry, DBI, but that quote is spurious and was never said by the Frenchman. Here's one of the sources for this fake quote.

http://www.tocqueville.org/pitney.htm

Colin Powell is just another lying liar - has been for 30 years.
His phony maps and all the other fabricated evidenece convinced the American people and even members of Congress, who should have known better, to attack an innocent country.
I remember sitting there watching it with hubby, and got furious. We had one of the worst arguments we have ever had, because hubby kept saying that the government would not lie to us.
So to hell with Colin Powell. A pox on him and all the other crooks, liars and thieves.
I don't know how Powell can face himself in the mirror.

"I don't know how Powell can face himself in the mirror."

Powell went to where the money is. That happens most of the time when one gets into the innersanctum of power.

His phony maps and all the other fabricated evidence convinced the American people and even members of Congress..

I suppose this is what passes for "honor" -- I'm sure he was "just following orders" -- but BlueRidge you make a great point. Powell is idolized by the public like some conquering hero, but he didn't hesitate to lie when told to, even by a cowardly chickenhawk weenie like Bush.

BREAKING NEWS :
Democrats Hold Solid Lead; Strong Anti-Incumbent, Anti-Bush Mood
Terrorism Focus Increases, But No GOP Boost

Summary of Findings

As the congressional midterm campaign begins in earnest, the mood of the electorate is sharply drawn. Voters are disappointed with Congress and disapproving of President Bush. Anti-incumbent sentiment, while a bit lower than a few months ago, is far more extensive than in the previous two midterms and remains close to 1994 levels. Moreover, there are indications that voters are viewing the election through the prism of national issues and concerns. Many more voters see their vote as being against the president than at a comparable point in 1994, and a solid majority says party control of Congress will be a factor in their voting decision.

Voters are expressing strong and consistent anti-Republican attitudes. The GOP lags well behind the Democratic Party on nearly all major issues, including the economy, Iraq, education, health care, the environment and the budget deficit. And the Republicans have lost ground in recent years even on such traditional strengths as terrorism and improving the nation's morality.

As in six previous surveys over the past 12 months, voters by a wide margin say they favor the Democratic congressional candidate in their district (50%-39%). When the sample is narrowed to likely voters, approximately half of registered voters, the Democratic lead is undiminished. That Democrats poll as well among likely voters as among all voters may reflect the fact that Democrats, in contrast to recent campaigns, are more enthusiastic about voting than are Republicans.

(Read the rest at the URL)

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=289

Thanks, DBI for the quote reminder and Rasputin for the true source. The quote is seductive.

I googled the quote and found several where it was attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America, but the context did not have the tone I remembered of de Tocqueville's writing.

I look forward to the future where we will be able to internet search text of hisotric but out of copyright text and read the original and it's context to make-up our own minds.

Let's be honest. The only reason we had budget "surpluses" (technically only surpluses if you don't count the items off the record and ignore the funds stolen from the social security fund...) under Clinton was due to the fiscal responsibililty of the Republican controlled congress. Democrats in congress have never had any interest in fiscal responsibility.

And to imply that the Republican party has complete control of congress is also dishonest. The slim majority that the Republicans have is not large enough to have control. Sure it gives them some advantages, but it is certainly not control. The Democrats have still had considerable influence in holding up progress on many issues. In paticular, the Democrats were able to prevent any work being done to shore up the social security and medicaid funds.

There are many liberal Republicans in congress that are Republican in Name Only (RINO).

Hank Reardon, Blackberry, and RLR.

Chill! There will be many elections on November 7th and we will get to see the will of the people who care to vote.

Hopefully, it will be the best for the United States, but only time will tell. No matter what; the sun will still shine the next morning.

Severus said:
In paticular, the Democrats were able to prevent any work being done to shore up the social security and medicaid funds.

This is a somewhat misleading statement and Severus knows it. He would have been more truthful if he had said that Democrats disagreed with and opposed the President's plan because they thought they had a better one.
There are only two ways to fix the social security and medicaid funding problem: increase spending or cut benefits. Bush's plan leaned toward the latter since he didn't want to renege on his tax cut promises. Democrats leaned toward the extra funding and were strongly supported by AARP.
Looming over all of this was the massive deficit problem, the budget ruining war in Iraq, and an uncertain stock market (upon which hinged one of Bush's alternative ideas).
Does America take care of its older workers after they retire or does it invest in younger workers? The issue was and still is divisive. The retirees don't want to have benefits reduced and the younger workers don't want to bankroll the extra money to maintain the system.
Severus merely sees an opportunity to besmirch the Democrats rather than the deeper issues which underline the problem.

Gee Rasputin, Google lied to me. I don't really care who said it cause it's such a good line. That explains why it's been around all these years though no one knows who said it first.

I was thinking I need to read some of this de Tocqueville feller. I do like to know the facts, so thanks, but please don't tell me one word about Santa.

I see Sev is continuing to not let America be good by finding yet another way to put all the blame on the Democrats and none of it on the torture loving sons of bitches in the White House.

I am just now getting to relax after a busy day. And I plan to spend the next 30 minutes reading up how the Senate Arm Services Committee told that torture loving son of a bitch George W. Bush to kiss their asses today! It makes me so damn mad....I find it very hard to be civil.

I was born 10 years and 15 minutes after the Emperor of Japan surrendered, ending WWII. For the next 10 years of my life my parents told me one story after the other of German atrocities and Japanese torture. I used to lay in bed at night so proud that America did not torture. We called them Japs back then and what they did in WWII to our captured soldiers still makes my skin crawl.

But I could be proud that America didn't gas Jews like the Germans or torture people like the Japanese. It made me feel good. It made me feel safe and proud and glad with all my heart that I was an American and not a German or a Japanese.

But the torture loving sons of bitches that are in the White House now are cut from different cloth. Forget their words....look at their actions. From day one they've done everything they can to avoid following the rules of the Geneva Convention. They renamed prisoners of war by calling them enemy combatants and said that meant they could torture hell out of them.

Then they were told no....you can't do that...but of course they went right on doing it anyway. When the Abu Ghraib pictures hit the fan, they pointed at Lyndie England and some other retards and blamed the whole thing on them. Didn't go higher...we didn't know....some bad apples. Yeah right.

Then while McCain and some others are trying to outlaw torture we find out Bush-Cheney has put the CIA up to having secret black site prisons where they've been holding who know who, for who knows how long and no telling what kind of torture and killings have been going on over there......in our name.

And Cheney leads the way saying...nope...we need to torture and finally the anti-torture legislation passes. But read the fine print. Cheney got what he wanted anyway......no one can torture...huh uh...no one but the CIA. They have a free pass to come to Arkansas fly your ass off to Eastern Europe and pull your fingers off and feed them to you.

I don't love Iraq or Iran or any of those people over there. But I believe every human, American or not deserves to have the exact same rights that I do. War is hell and I know bad things happen. But we do not have to have the bad things be a direct order from the White House to the CIA.

Full US Government approval of torture!!!! I forgive the Japanese for what they did to the Chinese in the 30s and what they did to captured allied solders during WWII.

I thought America was different. Now I see we're torturing sons of bitches too! As I said....I don't love the people of the Middle East...not a single one of them. But wise people know if you torture your enemies when you capture them, your enemies are going to torture you. Now that I've lost the pride of being an American, we at least shouldn't torture so they won't torture our kids.

2677 of our kids have died.....think about that Colin Powell.....it's bad enough to have them come home dead....last thing we need is to find out they were tortured too.

The entire torture loving Bush administration should be removed to the closest black site prison and get some of their own medicine.

Amen, DBI.

This just might be your finest and your most personal. It also tells me how old you are and your birthday amigo.

Apparently they must've edited the World War II movies that our neo-con wingnuts watched and taken out those references Allied soldiers kept making about the Geneva convention.
Must have been educational to know that Nazis and Japs were such honorable men who didn;t need no stinkin' Geneva Convention rules.
Probably read different comic books, too; ones with a hero fighting for lies, injustice, and the corporate way.

BlueTicker, you might be too smart for my own good.

If that were only true DBI. Just as a side-bar, I got a couple of years on ya.

"Where do you guys intend to place your futures?" Hank

I dunno, in European bonds I suppose. That's where Dick Cheney recently put
$25 million in personal funds. But with bucks like that he doesn't need to "place his future" in any particular place eh?

Monkeyboy's war in Iraq and war against my beloved America have made me much less tolerant of people like Powell...people who after 6 years decide to speak up against stuff they should have been screaming about years ago. But then Powell is not new to holding his nose to the stink while covering his career-loving butt.

When our government called on him to help cover-up the the stench of My Lai he chose career over conscience. So when holding his nose became a prerequisite for stomaching the Bush administration he was hardly a virgin with a new soul to sell.

That we're EVEN debating what kinds of torture are acceptable...or whether it was right to imprison people in countries known for atrocities we'd never tolerate in the light of day...or whether we can imprison people indefinitely without putting forth one iota of evidence...or whether our government should have the right to bypass our judicial system on its way eavesdrop on us because Bush has declared himself a war president with unlimited power...sickens my American heart. We are not what we fight. And when we become just another rich and powerful nation using its blessings to do all those things we were founded to oppose we will be just another version of the Taliban.

I guess I should find solace in the fact that many civilizations took longer to sink to the depths we're sinking to. But I don't. I still can't believe we're even debating what kind of torture is acceptable and whether we can toss out due process and imprison people forever.

From the article: Mr. Bush's former secretary of state, meanwhile, joined opponents to that legislation who argue it would undermine the Geneva Conventions, further hurt America's image in the world and put future American POWs at greater risk . . .
********
Opponents are right until the last phrase. How does this put our POWs at greater risk?

Did the Germans consider how we treated POWs in deciding how they handled ours? The Japanese? The Koreans? The Viet Cong? The Iranians? The Iraqi/Muslims?

Our enemies torture and kill our soldiers and may limit the abuse only if the captives are a bargaining chip.

We follow the Geneva convention because we strive to be an honorable, principled society. And at times, just like you and me, our military and our leadership may fall short of this ambition.

But spare the malarkey about how our enemies will be nice to our POWs if we are nice to theirs. Never has been this way - never will.

DBI,

Given that Israel is a very small country surrounded by countries who want to destroy it, it does have to maintain a strong defense. Israel has always been a strong ally of the US. Given that Hezbollah was digging tunnels to invade Israel, and constantly employing suicide murderers, Israel does have to take reasonable steps to defend itself. If Israel did not take a proactive approach to defense, it would have been destroyed long ago by terrorists. It's amazing to me that liberals like you never seem to care about all of the innocent people murdered by suicide bombers, but when Israel fights back you act offended.

Jake Duh Snake:
Now back to social security. President Bush provided a plan to shore up social security. It was one possible solution to the problem. However, he said that everything was on the table. Democrats fought any changes. They offered nothing and resisted any changes. So yes I blame them for the lack of action. As a minority party, they still have the ability to tie things up in committee and use procedural methods to prevent progress. Democrats opposed any changes because they didn't want President Bush to have a major legislative success. They put politics above fiscal responsibility.

Who would Jesus torture?

Oh, uh, waterboarding's just a form of baptism, right W?

"They put politics above fiscal responsibility."

Lordy, I still am amazed when Republicans take anyone other than themselves to task for lack of fiscal responsibilities. Take off the colored glasses and view this country realistically.

Give it a rest. We all know that you hate President Bush. We also know that you all are somehow embarrassed by the success and status of the United States. We also know that you guys do not want the United States to succeed against the war on terrorism. We also know that you all blame the United States for the attacks on 9/11. If we somehow would just agree with all the demands from the rest of the world, that maybe they would like us more. Hogwash. We are the most successful, economically and militarily strong country in the history of the world. Do you really expect the world not to be envious and jealous? We will do what we have to do to protect our interests. If the rest of the world does not like it. Tough! That's not politically correct, but that is the real world. Deal with it.

"Did the Germans consider how we treated POWs in deciding how they handled ours?"

Mostly, yes. And when the Russians poured in, they didn't want to be p.ow.s of the Soviets but fled west to be taken by the British and the Americans.

"The Japanese? The Koreans? The Viet Cong? The Iranians? The Iraqi/Muslims?"

As a lump grouping, no. But there were/are instances where the answer is yes.

Truthfully, the US military has a history of severe violations of the Geneva conventions. Our forces routinely violated them in the Pacific War and on severl occasions in the ETO. Our Army came out of Vietnam with a reputation worse than Ghenghis Khan. I always said the biggest casualty of the Vietnam War was the US Army.

No nation, no military has a monopoly on cruelty. It's part of the devil that is in all of us. And since war is immoral, it's easy for the participants to be immoral.

Maybe we should keep our Iraqi prisoners in a an American country club setting where they would not want to go back - food, baths, air conditioning, soft, clean bed - maybe make it atractive for them to tell their friends they need to surrender and get away from the 120 degree daily baking with sand in their shorts or whatever they wear.

Alternatively, ship them tons of iPods, play stations, booze and pornography - then watch them self destruct when their morality police try to reverse that trend . . . would that be considered torture?

"Did the Germans consider how we treated POWs in deciding how they handled ours?"
But spare the malarkey about how our enemies will be nice to our POWs if we are nice to theirs. Never has been this way - never will.
Posted by: Don Keyhotay

Given that Israel is a very small country surrounded by countries who want to destroy it, it does have to maintain a strong defense. Israel has always been a strong ally of the US. Posted by: Severus

Give it a rest. We all know that you hate President Bush. We also know that you all are somehow embarrassed by the success and status of the United States. We also know that you guys do not want the United States to succeed against the war on terrorism. Posted by: HankRearden
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Well, I can sleep better tonight seeing the brain power of the right wing on display in this thread. Bush is doomed......good!

Don, the Germans actually did take care to follow the Geneva Convention during WWII in the vast majority of cases. As I talk to former WWII POWs, I am always amazed at the good treatment most of them got most of the time. I'd have to say I wonder how I would act if the person who just bombed my town bailed out and landed in my back yard. I think I'd take a bat and beat him to death. But remarkably, in the majority of cases our soldiers were interrogated and put in a POW camp without much abuse involved.

Upholding the Geneva Convention may not save our POWs every time, but ignoring it will sure enough get our soldiers tortured and killed. How brave of you to say otherwise from the comfort of your home. You are wrong on this point.

Israel can shoot at their neighbors 24/7 and I really don't give a damn. But when they use US weapons to kill their neighbors.....I do mind. Every person they kill with a US made weapon splashes guilt on the US and makes us one step closer to a terrorist attack. I do not dislike Jewish people, move them all to Utah, move them all to Arkansas.....I don't mind a bit. But do not put US weapons in their hands, in theirs or anyone else's. We must stop being an arms dealer to the world!

And Hank....your stupid diatribe about any American hating America, hoping for the worst, wishing America would fail, being "embarrassed by the success and status of the United States", is worthy of a 9 year old. Why do you hate America was stupid the first time it was uttered, by now it's a mile below stupid.

The better question is why do you love Bush after 6 years of failure, after 6 years of every aspect of life becoming worse and worse....as the Bush-Cheney lies stack up taller than the Washington Monument? Is it some kind of Jesus thing? Is it some kind of personal homosexual attraction to George W.? Only someone channeling a dead Nazi could still be loving on Bush at this point. You clearly need psychiatric help. Get out the phone book and call for help right now!

This appeared yesterday and is plenty good enough for me, though I never voted for Bumpers in my life. I now see the error of my ways.

Ex-U.S. Sen. Bumpers calls current time `age of darkness'

LITTLE ROCK Former Senator Dale Bumpers has called the current time an "age of darkness," citing a fear of terrorism and accusing Republicans of having warped priorities and bad judgment.

Amen!!!

The Idiot and Chief is on CNN right now digging a deeper hole for himself. I don't think he understands how he is viewed by America at this moment. Bush is on his way out....one way or the other.

"would that be considered torture?"

The worst torture would be having to listen for days on end some of the rap music or some of the hip hop stuff. Sheer pain and mental abuse.

But do not put US weapons in their hands, in theirs or anyone else's. We must stop being an arms dealer to the world! - DBI
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Well, it sounds like you are leading up to a tidy final solution for them. Lets just withhold our support so they can re-arm with spears, arrows and slingshots. Then, with no means of realistic defense, the problem solves itself.

Hank,

You ever read?
Here, you don't know shit.

We all know that you hate President Bush.
He's a likeable guy, humorous in a clown like manner but he is not intelligent enough or qualified to lead.

We also know that you all are somehow embarrassed by the success and status of the United States.
success? status - we are hated, we have lost virtually the entire international communties respect and trust...ya I hate for that.

We also know that you guys do not want the United States to succeed against the war on terrorism.
you can't believe that can you? I want my country and family as safe as the next guy, I'm just mad a hell that in the last 4 years the Chimpster has successfully set up the largest on the job terrorist training center never ever before seen...Iraq. 1000's and 1000's of brand new recruits we'll have to deal with because of the Chimpster failed and flawed Iraqi policies.

We also know that you all blame the United States for the attacks on 9/11.
Nope - I blame Osama Bin Laden - and Clinton and Bush, Clinton warned Bush about Bin Laden and the Presidential Daily Briefing dated in August of 2001 explicity told the Chimpster what "they" were planning. He and his administration should of put the airline industry on alert...so ya, Bush carries the major burden of failure and the subsequent attack on our soil.

If we somehow would just agree with all the demands from the rest of the world, that maybe they would like us more. Hogwash.
In the globalized world, we will never win the bully contest on the playground...those days are over. We figure out how to bring the world's nation together or our way of life is doomed - period (read a little history).

We are the most successful, economically and militarily strong country in the history of the world.
Economically successful - hmm, this nation is on a giant credit card, courtesy of Communist China...we are spending, spending, spending, maintaining artificial growth. At some point, and probably for some obscure reason, our credit is gonna get pulled - then the shit will hit the fan.

Do you really expect the world not to be envious and jealous?
Of course they are jealous, of course they are envious. Why, because a wealthy Christian nation should be feeding the poor, healing the sick and help make living conditions better for lesser nations. That kind of war on terrorism is winnable. How would you expect any nation that sees the US as an imperialistic nation feel? And our action lately are imperailistic.

We will do what we have to do to protect our interests. If the rest of the world does not like it.
It's called nation building, allies, that's how we proctect our interest and this administration has done nothing but destroy this countries decades of historic efforts in nation building.

Tough! That's not politically correct, but that is the real world. Deal with it.
You are right, it's tough, but it is not the real deal, it is only the real deal with this administration. The sooner we get back to the negoiating tables and start real nation building, this country will continue to be in grave danger.

Isn't it great to live in the U.S. and to have the opportunity to have opinions that are diametrically opposed to one another? I do not agree with one opinion of yours and you apparently do not agree with mine. However, I have not asked you whether you read or not? I have not challenged your intelligence or lack thereof. Why do you liberals always attack the messenger when they have opinions different from your own?

Hank,

I challenge because intellectually I cannot fathom that anyone that reads, that thinks, that has cognitive thought processes and has any historical prospective can turn a blind eye to the direction that this nation has been lead.
I asked if you read, because your opinions bring me to the conclusion, that if you do indeed read, your reading is not balanced.
I read 10 or 12 OpEd pieces a day, from all over this country and state, some I soundly disagree with, but I do read them. Not being aware of both sides and takes on the issues would lead me to blind servitude to one view or party. I'm a democrat by leanings, but an American by the fact that I refuse to drink the Kool-Aide of either party and prefer to do my own thinking based on facts and history.

...Why do you liberals always attack the messenger when they have opinions different from your own?

Ah how poetic. A fairly reasoned comment ending with the aforementioned comment. Attacking the messenger to obfuscate reality is hardly a liberal exclusive. It's a tried and true political method. I would argue, however, that the Bush administration has elevated this sort of crap beyond reasonable boundaries. When it comes to dirty politics the libs, to their political detriment, are babes in woods compared to the Rove attack machine. And though there are few 'innocents' on this blog, the majority of vapid name calling has been done by those who I (and others) unaffectionately call the Kool-Aid drinkers.

So I disagree that it's libs who most often resort to name-calling rather than reasoned debate.

What can I say, ole wise Blue Ticker? How does one debate such a learned man such as yourself? To drink from the fountain of knowledge, op Ed pieces, is hard to challenge the integrity of your thought process. You say that you do not drink the kool-aide of the Democratic party. Is there any position of the Republican party in which you agree?

Severus said:
Democrats opposed any changes because they didn't want President Bush to have a major legislative success. They put politics above fiscal responsibility.

You failed to mention that Bush was also opposed by Republicans within his own party. This is called "spin" and you're not supported by the facts.

Here are some excerpts from articles published at that time and show a broader perspective of the problem:

Bush's struggle is a testimony, in part, to how complex and politically risky it is to propose any change in Social Security. But some analysts say it is also a product of a mismatch between the president's leadership style and the challenge he faces. The uncompromising, provocative style that has made Bush a commanding leader in foreign policy is more problematic when he takes on a tough domestic issue that cries out for flexibility and bipartisan cooperation.

The debate got off on the wrong foot when Bush, in the 2004 campaign and initially after his reelection, emphasized the benefits of personal accounts as a way to increase workers' ownership of their retirement savings. That line of argument may have unnerved the many people who want Social Security to be their safety net, not a vehicle for expanding their investments.

In a New York Times/CBS poll .. two-thirds of those surveyed were uneasy about the president's ability to make sound decisions on Social Security. And 45% said that the more they heard about Bush's plan, the less they liked it.

Severus, if anything is indicative of a judgement upon fiscal responsibility, it was the last fact: a large majority of the people didn't trust Bush on the subject. The public not only said "No" but they said "Hell, no!", to borrow from a recent DOG article about the failure of the jail tax.

Hank, a bit of a snark there.

Good question...let me think.

SS reform (nope - no privatation tied to the stock market - not interested in risking my retirement on the likes of Enron's and World Com's)

Iraq (nope - you already know)

Economy (nope - you already know)

Immigration (nope - the old saying is if a man builds a 53 foot fence - the other guy will build a 54 foot ladder - building a fence is just for show - "we" and I mean both sides need to sit down and hammer out something that works...playing politics with our borders is crimminal)

Tax breaks for the rich (nope - there is no other country in this world where a man has the opportunity, because of the freedoms this county offers, the ability to "make it". And with that opportunity comes responsiblity. If you give one class an economic advantage through tax cuts, you are in grave danger of destroying the democratic principles that allowed you to "make it". This country cannot afford as a democratic nation to create 2 diverse economic groups which gives greater advantage to one over the other)

Oh ya - here -

Marriage between a man and women (yup - but that should be a state issue, not a Constitutional Amendment. States should also protect the property rights, survival rights and medical rights of those who are in alternative lifestyles.)

Guns (yup - gun owner and bow owner - love walking the woods with both - but don't want guns around that can mow my grass with the pull of a finger)

Sounds like you really do drink the democratic party kool-aide after all. A confession is always good for the soul.

Ditto.

Ditto.

Way to go, BlueTicker!!!

Your country wisdom has my furry, four-legged buttlickers wagging their tails in appreciative harmony. They recognize a true country boy who's not afraid to speak the gospel to these drugstore cowboys.

Remind our heathen brethren of the GOP persuasion when they tout their plans and excuse their failures with fingerpointing of the following piece of backwoods wisdom:

Wings don't mean a chicken can fly.

Jake,
I hadn't heard that one in years, and it is indeed a great one.
If you don't mind, I think I'll use that one often. Thanks.

Boys, correct me if I am wrong but somewhere along the way I had the impression Blue Ticker was female. Guess I missed it....

Whatever persuasion, BlueTicker also has my vote.

Might I toss in one moer saying that's appropriate to our favorite whipping cream boy and illustrated leader:

You can load gold on a mule, but he's still a mule.

My apologies. Wrong Blue. BlueRidge is the female and not Blue Ticker. I'll try to keep it straight if it ever becomes necessary.......

How about that ancient Japanese proverb,

"Knowledge without wisdom is a load of books on the back of an ass?"

Damn, Rasp

I had do a quick inventory. All's well.

That's a good one as well Hank.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

How about me just making some proverbs up:

If you aim high, don't shoot blanks.

When gun laws are idiotic, only idiots will have guns.

Knowledge is like water. It won't do you any good if the container has holes in it.

So, Hank, mon frere, I must admit your quote fits George W. to a Tee.

Finally, you must admit that the converse of your statement is also true.

Wisdom without knowledge is an ass sitting on a load of books.

Hard to tell, Jake. Which do you feel that you have? Knowlege or wisdom?

Hard to tell since the nurses started spiking my prune juice, but we'll see what comes out in the end.

Hmm this statement, I'm sure, was supposed to be sarcastic, but it just may work, although is it torture? Nahh. That is the point. Better to give them something to live for.

"Maybe we should keep our Iraqi prisoners in a an American country club setting where they would not want to go back - food, baths, air conditioning, soft, clean bed - maybe make it atractive for them to tell their friends they need to surrender and get away from the 120 degree daily baking with sand in their shorts or whatever they wear.

Alternatively, ship them tons of iPods, play stations, booze and pornography - then watch them self destruct when their morality police try to reverse that trend . . . would that be considered torture?

Posted by: Don Keyhotay September 15, 2006 09:58 AM"

Think about it. What better way to change a mind than to offer things like this? You may MAKE someone say they have changed their minds, or force them to do what you want, but winning their hearts is more thorough.

Dreams of having better would go much farther than fears of abuse, especially if you are dealing with people that haven't had much of anything in their lives. Lots of people here in the US sell their souls, so to speak, for money and power. Why would most of them be any different?

You catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar.

Sorry for the confusion, Ras.
I used to go by pj, but decided to adopt BlueRidge.
BlueTicker and I think along the same line, however.

terror - violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands.

terrorist - one who systematically uses terror especially as a means of coercion.

George W. Bush, the first U.S. terror-time president.

Draw your own conclusions.

But Dale Bumpers is correct; this is an "Age of Darkness" and I am waiting, praying and hoping for the light.