Arkansas Blog

Maybe you should read the report released the other day on criminal and drug cartel incursions into the u.s. and the corridors they use,

The report was a scathing rejection of pro amnesty anti enforcement folks like yourselves.

check it out here.

http://thecitizensjournalblog.blogspot.com/2006/10/illegal-immigration-report.html

By the way i laugh everytime i see the term "undocumented worker" tell me, as a citizen if i was caught stealing was that just an "undocumented purchase"
I seriously dont understand the oppositions view on this. What is so wrong about discouraging illegal immigration ?
Do our borders not need to be protected?

The blog Goddess's Tilly and the gang at Mars, blog went Nuke on MR NWA JIm HOLT this am check it out.... he...he you go girls .
http://www.matildaintherock.blogspot.com/

"Womack Denounces Tyson, Walmart, Construction Companies; Cites Hiring of Illegal Immigrants."
I'll wait for that headline before I regard his stance as anything other than pandering.

I'm always suspicious when I hear someone say, "I have nothing against LEGAL immigrants. My only interest here is in seeing the law upheld. I have nothing personal against Latinos."

When they say they have no racist views against Latinos, you can bet they have racist views against Latinos.

"When they say they have no racist views against Latinos, you can bet they have racist views against Latinos."

I think that is the most bizzare statement ive ever seen.

I think the operative word here is "ILLEGAL"
I know you are just trying to make this issue a racist one but its not. Illegal status does not belong to one group of people. anybody can be Illegal.

Its not racist to demand that the law be enforced.

"When they say they have no racist views against Latinos, you can bet they have racist views against Latinos."

That is exactly correct. Similar statements are: "I'm not racist"
and "Trust me."

When someone feels compelled to tell you what they aren't, remember that the dog only barks when you get close to the house.

Its certainly a good way to dodge the issue.

"revokes for five years the business license of any business hiring an illegal immigrant"

That is some very strong language. If I were a business owner in Northwest Arkansas, I would avoid Rogers, because if I accidentally hire someone who turns out to be illegal I would have my business license revoked for five years. And, if fake social security cards are as prevalent as they say, it would be easy to be duped into hiring an illegal immigrant.

furthermore, i think this law would just cause many business owners to avoid hiring hispanics altogether to avoid the risk of hiring an illegal immigrant and thus having their business license revoked.

I can't wait until Wal-Mart hires an illegal immigrant and the city of Rogers tries to shut them down. That'll be the day!

I think that is the most bizzare statement ive ever seen. - Citizen Journal

You obviously don't read your own statements.

Its not racist to demand that the law be enforced. - Citizen Journal

Yes it is, if it's a racist law which it is and has been since the Immigration Act of 1923.

Don't attempt to mask your racism by an appeal to law -- that's what the good Jim Crow folks did for a century. You fit right in with them. Get over your fears.

there is nothin racist about our current immigration laws.

You are dodging the issue.

Fear has nothing to do with it.

Its about the U.S. being a nation of laws not men. If we are a nation of laws and you and i are heald to that standard why are those who come here illegally exempt from it ?

"I think the operative word here is "ILLEGAL" "

The problem with this statement is that currently there is no legal path to citizenship for most people. The way the current system is structured, immigrants are almost forced to come into the country illegally because once they are here, they can get in line for a green card. The system is backed up for years and once immigrants are here, they can get in "line" so to speak for a green card and are allowed to stay in this country while waiting for residency. I am intimately familiar with this system I have personally dealt with the INS on the behalf of others and I can say without a doubt the system is inherently flawed.

The logical solution is to allow people to come into this country legally, so people are not forced to come here illegally. Building a fence or imposing tough laws on employers does not fix the issue. Unfortunately, politics not logic rule Washington.

When they say they have no racist views against Latinos, you can bet they have racist views against Latinos.- Posted by: Spirit
********
Spirit:
Unfortunately, this is a real quandary- if the person says "I am against illegal immigration" - most of the bloggers will say "You are a racist and/or a bigot" because what you really mean is. . ..

If the person says "I support LEGAL immigration" - most of the bloogers will say "You are a racist and/or a bigot" because what you really mean is . . ..

If the person says "I have nothing against LEGAL immigrants and I have nothing against Latinos" - most of the bloggers will say "You are a racist and/or a bigot" because you are racist toward Latinos.

So the speaker gets nailed no matter what is said.

When I hear a statement similar to this comment, I assume that is really said in reference to the ridiculing speaker - that when the ridiculer makes a similar comment, he/she is acknowledging his/her underlying racism and is imputing the same racist tendency to anyone else that makes a similar statement.

This gets applied in a number of other ways - More commonly, when a person says "I don't believe you when you say you love the sinner but hate the sin - you really are a hypocrite because noone can do that". That's because the person ridiculing the statement can't separate the sinner and the sin - and because the ridiculer can't do that, he/she thinks anyone making that statement is lying.

Sometimes we need to accept a speaker's heartfelt sentiment at face value.

That is the steps for immigration, maybe flawed somewhat but millions of legal immigrants have managed to do it.
What is wrong with the 12 million or so illegals? Why cant they do it ?

Simply saying it is tough to immigrate does not mean that breaking the law is a logical alternative.

what if you or I were to use this excuse the next time we were pulled over for say, speeding?

"im sorry officer its just to tough to take the time to watch the speed limit"
Thats a ridiculous argument to make.

also it is not as some might suggest a "right" to immigrate here.

"Sometimes we need to
accept a speaker's heartfelt
sentiment at face value.
Posted by: Don Keyhotay"

Yes, sometimes. But not this time. I just don't believe them. When they say their only gripe is that the immigrants are illegal, I just don't believe that. I think it's because they are both illegal and dark-skinned and speak Spanish.

I'll go so far as to say I don't think they like the LEGAL immigrants either.

Granted, I can't read minds, but I can still trust my male intuition.

Thats just being dismissive spirit and intellectually dishonest, to call someone a racist because they dont believe the same way you do.

I still havent heard a good agrument from you or anyone who thinks that not enforcing the law is sound judgement.

and calling someone a racist is deplorable when you have nothing but your "male intuition" to back it up.

"That is the steps for immigration, maybe flawed somewhat but millions of legal immigrants have managed to do it.
What is wrong with the 12 million or so illegals? Why cant they do it ?"

I would argue that many of the legal immigrants from Mexico were at one time illegal. My father is a legal immigrant who came to this country illegally over 30 years ago. Illegal immigrants can become legal, and they are attempting to do so in the only manner available to them. There is no reasonable path to citizenship in place at this time. It is too politically charged an issue to even create a legal path so people are using the only loophole available to them.

" also it is not as some might suggest a "right" to immigrate here."

We are a nation of immigrants and unless you are a Native American, your ancestors are also immigrants. At what point did we decide that our Nation is complete? Why should we not afford the same opportunities to the generations of today as was afforded to your ancestors' generations ago?

Spirit,

#1) I am not connected to Citizens Journal in any way.
( Docholliday asked that a few days back)

If asked if I like or dislike a "race", how do I answer?

According to you, if I claim I am not racist, then I am.

Do I claim I am racist and that proves I am not?

Your statement that if one claims to have no racist views against "a race" you can bet they have racist views is ABSURD!

If a reporter asks a politician if he has stopped beating his wife, he can say neither yes or no. Because he is either saying he currently beats his wife or did in the past. If the politician never beat his wife he has no answer. And "I refuse to answer that " leaves him denying wife beating.

I see your absurd statement as a similar to the wifebeating question.

So I see you seemed to have had fun in Vegas. When you went to Yosemite did you go up through Nevada and past area 51or did you go through Bakersfield and up the Imperial Valley?

My wife and I love that area, she can shop and I can do nature stuff.

Now, in closing, I believe that ALL LAWS should be enforced to the fullest because the only way to get bad laws off the books is to enforce them and cause citizens to demand they be removed. Any unenforced bad law can be used to "legally" harrass a person or a group. Bad laws left on the books erode all respect for a country's laws.

I say we need a complete overhaul of the immigration laws so we don't have this horrible situation we now have. Right now the "authorities" can extort what ever they wish from otherwise legitimate businesses by hanging the threat of a raid over their heads.

"I still havent heard a good agrument from you or anyone who thinks that not enforcing the law is sound judgement."

It is not a matter of not enforcing laws, it is a matter having a reasonable set of laws in place to enforce. The law is broken and I don't see anyone attempting to fix it other than implementing punitive measures. Honestly, George Bush has a reasonable plan and as a Republican with a Republican controlled Congress I thought he could make it happen. Unfortunately I was wrong. I have been a Republican since the day I registered to vote 12 years ago and this one issue and the actions of the Republicans in Congress on this issue is causing me to question my own party. It is a sad day when Congress legislates based on fear.

Immigration law is not broken its not being enforced !
That being said we do need tougher penalties because as you pointed out they are being ignored.

George Bush has let us down on this issue. Im sorry but when your wrong, your wrong. I dont care what party you are apart of.
Doesnt make me "question my own party"
In fact I know how much I disagree with the opposition party and it's pretty much all the time.
You cant please evryone all the time but ill tak my chances with the GOP over the libs anyday.

"calling someone a racist is
deplorable when you have
nothing but your "male
intuition" to back it up.
Posted by: The Citizens Journal"

I for one am perfectly happy to be deplored by the likes of The Citizens Journal. (And shouldn't there be an apostrophe in there somewhere?)

"Immigration law is not broken its not being enforced !
That being said we do need tougher penalties because as you pointed out they are being ignored.
George Bush has let us down on this issue. Im sorry but when your wrong, your wrong. I dont care what party you are apart of.
Doesnt make me "question my own party""
This is where we fundamentally disagree. If you are of the opinion that is should be very difficult, if not impossible, to enter this country then I suppose you are correct. If you are of the opinion that our country is complete and except for specific exceptions people should live in the country to which they are born then maybe your statement holds true for you. If you feel that the only problem with immigration policy is enforcement then you should be mighty happy with the GOP these days.
However, if you feel that America is a melting pot and should embrace all cultures and people from all walks of life then the only choice is to admit that the current immigration policy needs to be reformed. Obviously, your opinion rests with the former and that is your right. I just happen to disagree.

"Spirit,
#1) I am not connected to
Citizens Journal in any way.
Posted by: Citizen1"

Yes, I know the difference in Citizen, who is 99% agreeable, and The Citizens Journal, who is usually not.

"Your statement that if one
claims to have no racist
views against "a race" you
can bet they have racist
views is ABSURD!
Posted by: Citizen1"

I agree, Citizen, that if I had made that statement, it would be ABSURD.

But I never made that statement. I didn't paint with such a broad brush. I was much more specific.

If you look at my post again you'll see that I said, "when THEY say they have no racist views against Latinos..."

They they they. I was speaking of, and only of, they who keep yelling that it's only the illegal part of immigration that matters to them. Those are the ones I don't believe.

Now I know how politicians must feel when they say one thing, get quoted out of context, and are falsely accused of being ABSURD. If anything, I'm only absurd in lower case.

"They they they. I was speaking of, and only of, they who keep yelling that it's only the illegal part of immigration that matters to them. Those are the ones I don't believe. "

I believe Citizens Journal made his views on how he feels towards Latinos very evident when he stated that he does not feel current immigration law is broken and enforcement is all that is needed. The "keep them all out" mentality can only be described as racism.

Did i miss something ?
Did Iq's drop sharply in the last few minutes?
I dont believe anyone in this comment section said anything about "keeping them all out "

This is one of my points about this issue, its comon sense really, yet there are those who just cant wait to play the race card to end the debate, or silence others views.

Read carefully , we are a nation of immigrants true enough, and i agree with that sentiment. i have nothing against immigration.

we are also a nation of laws. Are we not suppose to abide by those laws to maintain good order in a civilized society ?
So can someone explain to me how enforcing the laws that protect americas borders equals racism .

As far as illegal immigration goes, does everyone realize what a disastrous boondoggle that 700-mile fence is?

About 50% of illegal immigrants actually came here legally then overstayed their visas. No fence will fix that.

HEHE you GO Sprit i'm with you Buddy LOL

Wear them out .....

"Read carefully , we are a nation of immigrants true enough, and i agree with that sentiment. i have nothing against immigration."

My point is that current laws are designed to keep immigrants out and by supporting all existing laws is supporting a "keep them all out" mentality. My IQ is just fine thank you, or so says the Summa Cum Laude Degree on my office wall.

No i believe your point was ,

"I believe Citizens Journal made his views on how he feels towards Latinos very evident when he stated that he does not feel current immigration law is broken and enforcement is all that is needed. The "keep them all out" mentality can only be described as racism."

Only evil kinevil could have made that leap. How exactly did i make my views on "latinos" evident ?
illegal status does not belong to any one demographic or race.

Immigration laws are not designed to keep people out, they are designed for orderly immigration, and so we can tell who and how many are here. without that chaos and anarchy rein on the border. which leads to death and exploitation of migrants and seperation of families.

Once again can someone pull out the liberal manifesto and explain to me how enforcing the immigration laws equals racism ?

I just don't believe them. When they say their only gripe is that the immigrants are illegal, I just don't believe that. I think it's because they are both illegal and dark-skinned and speak Spanish. - Posted by: Spirit
********
Spirit:
If you are going to call someone a liar, bigot, racist, whatever, surely you would agree that there should be some basis for making that statement.

I assume you haven't ridiculed anyone on this blog for making totally unfounded statements about anyone's character, have you?

Was it the words he used? Was it how he said it? His inflection? Was it the shifty eyes? The smirk on his face? Is he contradicting something he said before? Is he using the flag of Mexico for toilet paper? Something? Anything?

Or maybe its just because its Friday and, like me, you're upset that you can't play outside.

Or are you really projecting your true feelings about Hispanics on him?

Preacher says GOP delaying 2nd coming
Monday, October 09, 2006
By Becky Gaylord
Cleveland (Ohio) Plain Dealer

Voters should oust congressional Republican leaders because U.S.
foreign policy is delaying the second coming of Jesus Christ,
according to a evangelical preacher trying to influence closely
contested political races.

K.A. Paul railed against the war in Iraq on Sunday before a crowd of
1,000 at the New Spirit Revival Center in Cleveland Heights, his
first stop on what he hopes is a 30-city campaign.

The Houston-based preacher said he believes that the Bush
administration has delayed the second coming because U.S. foreign
policy has blocked Christian missionaries from working in Iraq, Iran
and Syria.

"Somebody needs to say enough is enough," he said to worshippers who
stood, waved and called out in support.

At just over 5 feet tall, the charismatic man in a beige three-piece
suit trimmed with sparkles is the latest - and perhaps the most
flamboyant - voice in the debate this fall over religion and
politics in Ohio.

Ohio Republican gubernatorial candidate Ken Blackwell has rallied
many of the state's religious conservatives. His Democratic
opponent, Ted Strickland, is an ordained minister. And a group of
clergy members formed We Believe Ohio to counter what they consider
threats to the separation of church and state.

Paul, who claimed to support conservative political leaders in the
past, is launching "a crusade to save America from the wrath of God
and Republicans abusing their power," according to his press
materials.

His focus on Sunday was on national races, and he didn't single out
any Ohio candidates.

"God is mad at this country," Paul told the congregation. He
described the war in Iraq as "unnecessary genocide."

But his own tactics have also drawn criticism. Paul runs a group
called Global Peace Initiative, based in Houston, and a ministry
outgrowth called Gospel to the Unreached Millions.

Critics accuse the group of sinking cash into refurbishing and
operating a Boeing 747 he calls Global Peace One.

"Paul flies around the globe using Jesus to pull in worldwide
donations - unfortunately spending more money on jet fuel than
orphans," according to a June article in the weekly Houston Press.

The Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, a peer review
group whose focus is to monitor charitable, religious and other
nonprofit groups, severed its ties with the Gospel to the Unreached
Millions last year when the group failed to provide information
about its board of directors and the use of its resources.

It's also unclear how far this tour will go. Paul on Sunday didn't
have a firm list of the cities he'll visit before Nov. 7.

Another GOP Religious NUT JOB in OHIO, Ugh the Humanities ..... do the breed these freaks out in mid america or something this is the same not job who was house speakers hastert GURU i believe till he denied it in the FOLEY case ........

RLR

God's law says people should be able to go where they need to go in order to live a better life. That trumps Man's law. When Jesus told us how we treat the poor is how we treat him, he didn't qualify it with legalities over imaginary lines on the ground.

"You shall not wrong or oppress a resident alien, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt." Exodus 22:21

"The alien who resides among you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the Lord your God." Leviticus 19:34

"Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by doing so some have entertained angels unawares." Hebrews

"If you are going to call
someone a liar, bigot, racist,
whatever, surely you would
agree that there should be
some basis for making that
statement.
Posted by: Don Keyhotay"

I'm simply relating my hunch, my intuitive feeling, and I said as much in my first sentence on this page: I'm always suspicious when I hear someone say...

I feel free to relate my suspicions here just as you are free to avert your eyes from them if you are only interested in reading the facts and nothing but the facts here.

Likewise, I wrote: ...you can bet they have racist views...

Now, if you don't want to make the same wager based on MY intuition, that's certainly your right. I spent last week in Las Vegas and can tell you that betting along with me is risky.

That being said, you can bet I'll be celebrating with champagne and cheese dip on election night.

I dont think anyone actually answered my question.

Typical Liberal debate, no answers to questions, just racism charges.

Of course.