Arkansas Blog

If you disregard everything else, think about Kevin Tillman and his mother and father when you go to cast your vote in a few weeks. The Bush administration lied about Pat's death and even allowed the Tillmans to hold his funeral under the circumstances of a lie. The truth was that Pat died of friendly fire and the Army knew it. There was a cover-up with brass clearly involved.

They were willing to call the football player/soldier a hero and use him as a PR symbol in death.

Well he WAS a hero. He served. But the administration doesn't honor that - they wanted more from this dead soldier so they tried to co-opt even his death for political purposes. They betrayed his honor by lying about him and betrayed his family by lying to them.

If they'll lie about that why would you ever believe a word they say? If you don't vote against them you're condoning their policies. Vote in a Democratic majority in both houses and let the investigations into this and so many other lies begin.

Most of the American people will never read the bold, passionate thoughts of Kevin Tillman.

Apathy, ignorance, and lack of access are some of the reasons most Americans will miss this essay.

Would anyone bet that Kevin Tillman's essay will be heard on some of the right-wing network programs that influence most Americans?

Kevin will be denounced by those nuts.

Amen, Kevin.

Unfortunately, a lot of the voters that both served in Vietnam and opposed the War seem to have forgotton how to think.

I pray it is not a permanent situation.

Kevil Tillman can expect to be Swiftboated....no, let's call a spade a spade, he will be SwiftBushed this coming week. His words are too powerful, hold too much truth, expose too many lies for the SwiftBushers to let go by.

If one added up the media sins of Bush-Cheney it would be enough to insure no one voted Republican on November 7th. When has America ever abided a White House that buys off the free press, plants fake news stories, hires the same people to lie for them, that we expect to tell us the truth?

We should have hauled those bastards out of the White House when we finally learned the truth about Private Jessica Lynch. The nerve! Using an injured little girl as propaganda to ramp up their war for oil! Why didn't her father grab a gun and go to town on the Rove-ites? Just try it with my daughter and see what happens.

Then Pat Tillman, a man who had the world by the tail and yet gave it up to go fight for his country in a time of crisis. Killed by his own men, something that happens in war. Of course that's sad enough, but the bastards in the White House use his death to invent lie after lie to promote their war for oil.

Imagine the shock his parents must have felt when they learned the truth about their son's death. As they spoke out the SwiftBushing began. Those Tillmans are crazy! Their son's death has made them a little bonkers. Why make such a fuss in America's time of need?

An administration who would do these things cannot be trusted to do anything right. And look around....what have they done right? Name it! Link it! Shout it to the world.......you can't.

Through years of hard work, long range planning and much string pulling the Bush-Cheney neo-cons have stolen our government. With the help of weaklings like Mark Pryor and Blanche Lincoln Bush-Cheney has made a mockery of everything America once stood for. Today we are laughed at, feared and hated around the world.

We went from being the greatest country in the world to the bastard offspring of the old USSR and Nazi Germany. This is what Pat Tillman died for, this is what 2787 other good American troops died for and if you do not feel shame in your heart today, you are a monster.

Though we may be too far gone to save, our only hope to put on the brakes comes this November 7th. By the slimmest of chances we might be able to save ourselves if we can overcome the Republican election stealing machine and throw control of Congress back into Democratic hands.

As Mark and Blanche prove, the Democrats ain't much, but they are the only chance we have at the moment.

The coming election isn't about taxes, or party unity. It's not about your friends at church or the country club. It's not about my side beating your side. It is an emergency Heimlich maneuver that may, just may save our country and prevent a war that will last forever and eventually involve everyone on earth.

Voting Democratic and also dumping every incumbent may save our children and grandchildren. Even with Bush gone there will be years of fence mending, good will building, apologizing, hard work and lots and lots of prayers if we hope to ever overcome the damage that has been done in the last 6 years.

We cannot allow anyone to use 9-11 as an excuse to go crazy ever again. Destroying the world is not the way to honor those killed on that saddest of days.

Vote all the bastards out on November 7th and put on your crash helmet, 2007 is going to be a very bumpy ride. Save America on November 7th!

Foreign policy expert Mike Masterson weighs in on these issues today. He says "stay the course, don't cut and run." If only our soldiers had the courage of Masterson and the Bush Administration.

Perhaps if all of us email a copy of this to Masterson, as I just did, and all of the other armchair warriors, it may just wake a few. Well, fantasies sometimes come true.

You are correct Mr. Lendall, we should all do that. Of course, my comment about our soldiers' courage was tongue-in-cheek. It's a damn shame we have this leadership in our great country.

Wow...I wish everything I read was so...wonderfully human. That such an incredible AMERICAN family could be treated thusly speaks volumes about how far we've fallen.

Meanwhile monkeyboy is 'staying the course,' refusing to 'cut and run.' His stupid, redundant sound bites are like spit on every Tillman family.

Masterson is worse than all that. He has CHS (Chicken Hawk Syndrome) a disease that is rapidly spreading from our nation's capital and infecting people all over the nation. It causes them to utter things like
"Insurgency is in its last throes", Cheney
"Major victory in the war on Terror" Boozman
"Mission Accomplished", Bush

Chicken Hawk Snydrome totally consumes the infected ones with
"Support our troops but never expect me to be one" and the part of the brain normally used for reasonable negotiations is rendered
useless.
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"And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed -- if all records told the same tale -- then the lie passed into history and became the truth. "Who controls the past," ran the Party slogan, "controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."
George Orwell, 1984

I have a kid brother and a kid sis...we get along just like allergies...you know, stronger as the day grows longer?

I hope for too much...but, it gives me something to look forward to...

The Tilman family is brick...

This letter should be printed in every newspaper in America. It's the truth, told from a true hero.

I avoided reading the essay all day until just now. Somehow, I knew it would pain me, and it did. To tears.

Now that my vision has cleared again, I am angry enough to sneer openly at any car I see with a "W" sticker, and I can't promise to be civil to the driver. I'm leaning toward projecting a digital image. You know the digit I mean. It's also the one I'll be using when I vote AGAINST the bastards.

I'm with you widj, but to tell the truth, I don't see many Republican bumper stickers. The few signs I see around town don't bother me much, either, because the Democrat signs are 80%.
People are waking up.

DBI,

You were absolutely correct. Kevin's letter was published in the Tucson Citizen.

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/frontpage/30126.php

The second comment was negative and many got worse.

I don't know if the Bush apologists haven't read it here yet, but I prefer to believe that Arkansans have better manners and sympathy for veterans and the loss of a family member.

I remember coming home in 1974 and being cautioned against wearing my uniform in airports and repeatedly being called "babykiller," even in my small hometown. I'd be willing to bet some of those same SDS/hippies/protesters are now "supporting the troops" by Swiftbushing Kevin's letter.

The military has been used as pawns by the bush Admin. We could have killed osama in tora bora but the Bushits would not have had a boggyman anymore.

Anyone ever read "The Looming Tower"?

Hmmm...notice our rightwing, Bush hugging friends are totally silent on this thread. What's the matter.....Pat Tillman's ghost got your tongue?

Easy DBI.

We don't need to continue their divisive efforts. We are better than that.

We don't hold grudges regardless of their attempts to characterize us as petty as the CCRRR apologists were in the past.

God bless all of our servicemembers and their familes. Below are words every American needs to read:

The Soldier

It is the soldier, not the reporter,
who has given us freedom of the press.

It is the soldier, not the poet,
who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

It is the soldier, not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trial.

It is the soldier,
who salutes the flag,
who serves under the flag,
and whose coffin is draped by the flag,
who allows the protester to burn the flag.

By Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

Just watched Flags of Our Fathers. You libs would do well to watch it as well. My great uncle, for whom I am named, served as a medical officer on Iwo Jima during the battle. He was one of the first medical officers on the island.

It's remarkable to me that 6,891 Americans, mostly Marines and navy corpsmen, gave their lives on that island in just over a month's time and somehow we still won. To hear y'all tell it we're obviously losing in Iraq because about 2,800 Americans have died after 3 years of fighting in Iraq. 2,800 lives. Y'all have been heralding this news of woe as incontravertible proof that we're losing for quite some time now. It is a slap in the face of every brave, American serviceman who has died in every conflict we have fought. You are despicable, shameful people. You don't deserve the freedoms these men died to give you.

You are proud of your Great Uncle and his service to our country, and you have every right to be. I'm proud of him, too; I have that right, as well. My father served on an LST in WWII, and I'm proud of that. Many Americans like your Uncle and my father have fought and died for the rights and freedoms that the rest of us enjoy. I wish more people had a deeper appreciation of that fact.

You didn't mention whether or not Uncle Anonymous lived through the war, or whether he is alive now. I hope he returned to the hero's welcome he deserved and is still alive and able and willing to tell his stories. I am happy that my dad is alive and reasonably well for a 79 year old.

You took your usual bitter tone with your friends here on the blog, calling us despicable, shameful, and undeserving of American freedoms. You oughtn't do that, because some who read your words have fought, or served, or have lost a son or father or uncle. You oughtn't so broadly scold people for disagreeing with your point of view. Those who don't agree with you have their reasons. I know I do. By the way, most people in this country and certainly in the world do not think the United States is doing the right thing. You are part of a minority. But you can't help the way you feel.

War is hell. I've heard those words a lot over my 45 years, and they are never trite. Unthinkably terrible things happen in every war. You keep comparing the number of war dead in the current conflict with deaths in other wars. You say 2700. It's 2798. I know, that's only a measly difference of 98 flagged draped coffins. That's nothing.

My brother invited me to see that film today. I turned him down not because I'm not interested, but because I wasn't ready for it. We're taking Dad, and I just need for the crowds to die down a little before we go. It will be kind of heavy, I imagine.

This war in Iraq is not even comparable to World War II. The stakes are different. The abusers of power in this case and in my opinion are not the enemies. The whole ordeal is not about what WWII was about. Not even close.

From what I gather, anonymous, to you this war is about 9/11 and those soldiers over there are going through that sausage grinder so that another 9/11 doesn't happen again. Or they are fighting over there so that they don't have to fight over here.

That's just not my estimation of what this war is about. I feel more threatened today than I did on September 12, 2001.

I believe with all my heart that the people who waged this war (certainly not the ones who are fighting it) have motives other than protecting the American people. With all my true heart I believe they are the despicable, shameful players who don't deserve the very liberties they are endangering. And stripping from the Constitution.

The Bush administration is corrupt. They are destroying this country and are playing hell with the world. They must be stopped.

Sorry for my mistake on the number of war dead. I should have checked that again before posting.

I regret that I failed to acknowledge the sacrifices women have made for our country.

Hugh, you're mostly civil and I appreciate that. But I've been holding my tongue for far too long. I've been trying to be patient. But, comments like yours that the stakes are different are insulting and dangerous. Islamic terrorists are fascists. They are no different than the Japanese or the Germans, except that they are MUCH more dangerous, since a) they hide amongst civilians and b) they have no honor in the way they fight. They don't just seek conquest, but death and destruction.

It is a great sadness to me to see my own countrymen actively rooting for our defeat, some of whom do so because they believe falsely, as you, that this isn't a REAL enemy like the Germans or the Japanese, but many others do so because they hate their political opponents much more than they care about their country. Indeed, the most prolific producer and exporter of hatred of America is the American Left. The talking points of the Left are echoed by every tin horn dictator and terrorist thug in the world, just replay Hugo Chavez or Mahmoud Achmadenijad. Look at the response they received from the members of the pinnacle of enlightenment...the UN. The American Left has been spouting the same sort of vile, hate-filled words for 3 years now.

I am saddened and sickened that people whose very existence is threatened are more interested in political power and their perverse hatred of their opponents who freely protect them than the victory of their nation in a time of war. Instead, they conveniently brush aside the significance of this war, while offering no proof for the contention that this war is somehow different from any noble wars that we have fought.

You cannot support our men in uniform with one breath and the next question the value of what he does. With your every protestation that you support him, "but", you cheapen the sacrifice of men far better than either of us. You ought to be ashamed, but you have company and you need no solace for your shameful comments, because they cheer each snide and demeaning word. You eagerly report every bad thing that happens in the war, but I've not once heard you, or any other lib on this blog, quote even one good thing that has happened as a result of our efforts. You are a blind partisan and I am sad for you, but many of your comrades are motivated by an eager and open hatred.

Thank you for being civil, hugh, but your words stand on their head and I've had enough.

When you're going down the road in the wrong direction, without a map, and every mile down the road puts you further in the dark, then it's time to stop the car, get a new driver, find a map, determine the best direction and way to get to your goal.

Each mile driven represents a dead soldier. Continuing to go in the wrong direction only adds to the misery and futility of those stuck in the vehicle. Worst of all, is when someone says try to look on the bright side: isn't the desert pretty this time of year?

This notion that whatever you do will honor those who've already fallen is nonsense. As Lincoln said, it is the soldier who has done the honor of giving his life. And, I want to think he spoke of soldiers from both sides when he stood on the Gettysburg battlefield. Those fallen remain forever with their comrades, forever young, and forever lost.

History has shown that how we feel about our soldiers is not based on our feelings for our country, but on our feelings for them as kin and neighbors and co-workers. We care for them no matter what.
Still, the vehicle moves in the wrong direction. Still some want us to admire the scenery. Still no map is at hand and the destination is not clear. Instead of pointing ahead to a solution, some want to point behind and say all those wasted miles behind us mean we have to keep traveling into the darkness with our nearsighted driver who never had a map in the first place.

Right, feel free to explain to me how deaths of servicemen is proof that we're losing.

What was the exit strategy for WWII or WWI? Maybe victory... No, that couldn't be it.

Right, feel free to explain to me how deaths of servicemen is proof that we're losing. - Anonymous

Well, it definitely aint proof we're winning, is it?

Before you start hollering about exit strategies in comparison to WW I and WW II, it might behoove you to remember our entrance and that we fought against the invaders. In the Iraqi war, it is we who are the invaders.

During WW I and WW II, we proudly stood up for the Geneva convention rules of war and treatment of prisoners and publicly denounced Germany and Japan for not doing the same. What POW movie did not have a scene in which the enemy officer scorns mention of the Geneva convention?

Yet, in this day and time, it is the US which scorns and decrys the Geneva convention.

It is this mockery of American values and rights that frightens us; it is this inept leadership that has forgotten the law of unintended consequences. Instead of securing peace, it has created instability and turned the Middle East into an active spawning ground for terrorists.

Almost 3000 American soldiers dead, nearly half a million Iraqis dead, terrorists attacks and death squad reprisals occurring daily, civil war between Sunnis and Shiites, setbacks and failures in Afghansitan, American rights and privileges eroded in the so-called name of security, politicians who wrap themselves in the flag but are embarrassed by photos of flag-draped coffins, contiuous lies and obfuscation about so-called weapons of mass destruction....

When the victory you ask for implies more of this same suffering, destruction, and misunderstanding, then you are asking for a pyrrhic victory where one sacrifices more than he gains. The idea of unconditional surrender is not an option. The idea of nuclear retaliation by either side is not an option. The idea that religious zealots will let outsiders resolve their centuries of hate and discord is not an option. The idea that more killing will lead to peace is not an option.

The sad fact is that the Bush administration is not really offering us victory or a solution, but just giving us more war and more excuses.

It is George Bush who needs to answer for these lies and failures and bad decisions, not us.

Regarding fatalities, you said, "Well, it definitely aint proof we're winning, is it?"

In the annals of warfare, low casualties as experienced in this war have often been a measure of the tide of war. After 3 years, we have only had approximately 2,800 deaths of American servicemen, which in comparison to other wars is often comparable to a month's, a week's, and even a day's fatalities. In those wars, when that many Americans died in a single month, week, or day no one trumpeted that as proof of our defeat but our enemies.

Regarding the Geneva convention, first of all, has very different things to say about non-uniformed combatants. Regardless, we do not torture anyone and no one has proven that we have.

"nearly half a million Iraqis dead,"

I'd love for you to prove that. You can't the only person who killed that many Iraqis was Saddam Hussein, you remember the guy who actually practiced genocide on a large scale, unlike Slobodan Milosevic, who libs gladly went to war with and whose country we "invaded". It still hasn't been proven that he slaughtered the hundreds of thousands of people and we still have soldiers there. I never heard an exit strategy for that war.

"a pyrrhic victory where one sacrifices more than he gains."

That is a vile assault on the honor of our servicemen who have sacrificed for a very noble cause.

"The idea that more killing will lead to peace is not an option."

Then why do police officers carry guns? They do, as do our servicemen, because sometimes violence and injustice can only be stopped with violence. Neville Chamberlain found this out the hard way. Terrorism is the most dangerous threat of our time. They have been emboldened over the years by our inaction.

President Bush has not lied or failed. The only way we can win is if we give in to the temptation to listen to the anti-American pessimists on the American Left.

Poor nony, his heart is in the right place but his brain is all twisted up. When I say I want our troops to be withdrawn from a war we are not winning and cannot win, he hears me saying I love Sadam.

When we mourn over 2800 dead US troops (today's correct figure) he is too busy pulling up 60 year old numbers to feel any pain of our newly dead. Sure WWII was deadly deadly deadly, but those were the days of much more hand to hand fighting on a giant scale. 1 death is enough to be upset over, millions actually makes it easier to swallow.

Having had lots of experience with WWII veterans lately I can tell nony that his Uncle didn't fight WWII in order for Bush-Cheney to shit all over the Constitution of the United States. His Uncle did not fight in order for us to torture anyone with a clear conscience today. Uncle didn't fight so habeas corpus could be killed under Bush's foot.

His Uncle was a hero because America did a heroic job, saving us from tyrants who appeared to think and act a whole lot like the Bush administration does today. Our troops today are still heroes, but their Commander and Chief and other high officials are not. This rogue administration thinks as little of our returning war dead as they do religion.

Nony's Uncle helped make America a shining star for all to follow. A country anyone would be proud of to call home. Bush-Cheney have ruined all that in their greed and quest for world domination. If Uncle is still with us, he must be very sad.

The best way to honor US troops is not to send them into unfair wars for oil. To not send them to be chopped up into little pieces for Exxon and Halliburton. To not let war profiteers eat up so much money our country cannot properly armor our troops. And hiding the deaths of our fine soldiers from the US public implies there is something dishonorable about their deaths.

Nony, I will not invite you to leave America, this is your country no matter if you are right or wrong. But I hope you can stand the shock to your system if the fog ever lifts and you see how wrong you've been, how easily led astray by the dumbest administration in US history. If we ever hear you've jumped off a tall building, we'll know why. Because you aren't thinking, you're helping the bad guys kill the best thing that ever happened to this planet.

Please turn off Fox News and use your own brain and you'll change your mind about who our real enemies are.

"he is too busy pulling up 60 year old numbers to feel any pain of our newly dead. "

How dare you? You spit on them every time you question the value of what they have died for. It is precisely for them that I challenge hateful people like you. Feel free to delude yourself into thinking that calling this war an illegal invasion or a farce or a war for oil or any number of other insulting claims is somehow not an assault on men who are better than either of us. Your words cheapen their sacrifice whether you pretend to support them or not. You probably do want to support them, but to question the value of their mission while claiming to support them is incongruous.

"1 death is enough to be upset over, millions actually makes it easier to swallow."

So, is that why you're so eager to dismiss Saddam Hussein's actual genocide? Would it have been an illegal and unjust war if Hitler hadn't invaded any other countries, if he'd just slaughtered millions of Jews? Apparently, we should wait for people to attack us. A friend of mine was raped recently. If I had the opportunity, I wouldn't have waited and then called the police. I would have stopped him before it happened.

"Nony's Uncle helped make America a shining star for all to follow. A country anyone would be proud of to call home. Bush-Cheney have ruined all that in their greed and quest for world domination. If Uncle is still with us, he must be very sad."

How dare you try to say that my great uncle would oppose his country. He died last year. He, like the vast majority of actual veterans and current servicemen, supported our efforts against terrorism.

"Nony, I will not invite you to leave America, this is your country no matter if you are right or wrong. But I hope you can stand the shock to your system if the fog ever lifts and you see how wrong you've been, how easily led astray by the dumbest administration in US history. If we ever hear you've jumped off a tall building, we'll know why. Because you aren't thinking, you're helping the bad guys kill the best thing that ever happened to this planet."

If enough people fall for your lies, I won't have to jump off a tall building, I'll be killed in one when Little Rock or some other American city is bombed. I thank God that the majority of our country doesn't agree with you.

"Please turn off Fox News and use your own brain and you'll change your mind about who our real enemies are."

That is sad. Again, you are a sick, hate-filled, sad, little person. You actually think the people fighting to protect you are the enemy.

Terrorism is the most dangerous threat of our time. They have been emboldened over the years by our inaction. - Anonymous.

Reports show that the opposite is true. They have become more emboldened recently b y our actions.

How conveniently you forget that it was the Pentagon whichn released evidence of torture. How conveniently you ignore the latest reports which show that the figure of half-a-million Iraqis killed is far closer to reality than US milkitary estimates.

That stuff about vile assault on American GIs is pure garbage and just the sputtering nonsense you would call counterpoint when you've got nothing to really say. Typical trash debater tactic.

I've had enough of you for today. You confuse being sacrificed with making a sacrifice. You try to justify evil to defeat evil.

You cannot deny that the war is a mess; you cannot deny that terrorism has increased; you cannot deny that there is no plan; you cannot deny are arguments....but you will, because the death and destruction of those you hate means more to you than the life and liberty of those we all love.

P.S. By the way, you're still a day late and a dollar short on those list of conservative accomplishments that promote the rights and liberties of all Americans.

Terrorism is the most dangerous threat of our time. They have been emboldened over the years by our inaction. - Anonymous.

Reports show that the opposite is true. They have become more emboldened recently b y our actions.

How conveniently you forget that it was the Pentagon which released evidence of torture. How conveniently you ignore the latest reports which show that the figure of half-a-million Iraqis killed is far closer to reality than US military estimates.

That stuff about vile assault on American GIs is pure garbage and just the sputtering nonsense you would call counterpoint when you've got nothing to really say. Typical trash debater tactic.

I've had enough of you for today. You confuse being sacrificed with making a sacrifice. You try to justify evil to defeat evil.

You cannot deny that the war is a mess; you cannot deny that terrorism has increased; you cannot deny that there is no plan; you cannot deny our arguments....but you will, because the death and destruction of those you hate means more to you than the life and liberty of those we love.

P.S. By the way, you're still a day late and a dollar short on those list of conservative accomplishments that promote the rights and liberties of all Americans.

"Reports show that the opposite is true. They have become more emboldened recently b y our actions."

Read the entire intelligence estimate. Oh, and please explain to me how letting terrorism spread unfettered is somehow going to stop it.

"evidence of torture."

Abu ghraib does not represent policy.

"How conveniently you ignore the latest reports which show that the figure of half-a-million Iraqis killed is far closer to reality than US military estimates."

Feel free to enlighten me.

"That stuff about vile assault on American GIs is pure garbage and just the sputtering nonsense you would call counterpoint when you've got nothing to really say. Typical trash debater tactic.

I've had enough of you for today. You confuse being sacrificed with making a sacrifice. You try to justify evil to defeat evil."

Your second paragraph proves what you dispute in your first. Re-enlistment rates are at an all time high, so please explain. Or just say that our servicemen are stupid.

"You cannot deny that the war is a mess; you cannot deny that terrorism has increased; you cannot deny that there is no plan; you cannot deny our arguments....but you will, because the death and destruction of those you hate means more to you than the life and liberty of those we love."

I can and I do dispute that this war is a mess. All you cite is casualties, which are remarkably low, by any standard. The fact that casualties even occur apparently amazes you, as if you didn't realize that in war the enemy will try to kill us. I don't hate anybody except for the terrorists. You're right about that. Should I take your statement as a lack of disdain for terrorists? I know you'll say you don't like terrorists, but feel free to explain to me the democrat plan for dealing with them.

"P.S. By the way, you're still a day late and a dollar short on those list of conservative accomplishments that promote the rights and liberties of all Americans."

I never heard anyone ask me for such a list. I guess you mean besides the defeat of the Soviet Union, which liberated nearly a billion people, or stopping liberals from taxing Americans into the stone age, or fighting for the last 34 years to defend unborn children, or liberating 50 million people from tyrants. That one happened recently. I'm surprised you didn't hear about it.

P.S. You cannot question the value of someone's sacrifice and support them at the same time.

"You cannot question the value of someone's sacrifice and support them at the same time. "

It seems to be that's what the Democrat-Gazette does every year when R.E. Lee's birthday rolls around and they look back on the Lost Cause. Why don't you preach your message to all those good ol' boys riding around with an American flag on one side of the bumper and a Rebel flag on the other?

We're arguing about the war leaders and warmakers, not the warriors.

Unfortunately, at this time, although I've much, much more to disprove or argue against in your statements, I'm going to have to let others enlighten you further. My wife arrives back from overseas and I must meet her at the airport.

You talk about saving 50 million from tyrants. I'm interested in saving 300 million from one tyrant: George W. Bush.

As to your list of conservative accomplishments:

1) Downfall of evil Soviet empire: well, partial credit, at best. The Reagan Doctrine had some effect on the Soviet economy. More credit is given to the following: Glasnost, Gorbachov, the return of millions of dissidents back into society, public weariness with the Soviet totalitarian system, and the state's inability to control information to the public as it once had. In other words, they were already falling and Reagan stuck his foot out and speeded up the process somewhat. Oddly enough, Russian liberals get most of the credit here.
2) 50 million saved from tyrants: you're not specific, but I assume you're talking about Iraq. Unfortunately, it doesn't directly connect to the question given about promoting American rights. No credit.
3) Kept liberals from taxing us into the stone age: I guess we had to be satisfied with Bush putting us and our offspring into debt until the next stone age. No specifics mentioned and no evidence provided that this claim could be true. Tax as a threat to our lives: unsubstantiated and unproven. Bush's legacy of ruinous debt: substantiated and proven. No credit.
4) Saving unborn children for 34 years: probably your strongest argument although the majority of Americans disagree with it. It does lose its value when the speaker strongly supports war and killing. Despite my bias on the matter, you get credit on this one.

I appreciate the fact you came up with this list so quickly. Many others have been challenged and have failed to do so. I suggest you take a little more time and do a better in-depth research. Our list of liberal accomplishments was quite specific to laws enacted and citizens affected (civil rights, women's rights, health rights, wage rights, handicapped rights, conservation, etc.). Naming the legislation is a big plus in this assignment.

"We're arguing about the war leaders and warmakers, not the warriors."

Unfortunately, you're talking about the war, not just the leader. In any conflict other than this or Vietnam, an overwhelming majority American people would have informed you of this. You haven't even considered, or so it appears, the fact that when men give their lives in service of their country it is an insult to say that their sacrifice was worthless. That's precisely what you and your comrades are doing.

"You talk about saving 50 million from tyrants. I'm interested in saving 300 million from one tyrant: George W. Bush."

That's quite possibly the kookiest thing I've ever seen you say. In 2009, unlike the tyrants who ran Iraq and Afghanistan, President Bush will freely leave office and another freely elected leader will take his place. You are living on another planet to say that he is worse than Saddam Hussein or the Taliban. President Bush has not rounded up hundreds of thousands of political dissidents and summarily executed them in stadiums and rape rooms. If he were as bad as you say, you wouldn't be here to tell me about it. That is positively absurd.

"1) Downfall of evil Soviet empire: well, partial credit, at best. The Reagan Doctrine had some effect on the Soviet economy. More credit is given to the following: Glasnost, Gorbachov, the return of millions of dissidents back into society, public weariness with the Soviet totalitarian system, and the state's inability to control information to the public as it once had. In other words, they were already falling and Reagan stuck his foot out and speeded up the process somewhat. Oddly enough, Russian liberals get most of the credit here."

That's bull%&$*. Reagan stopped pussy footing with the Ruskies and they couldn't keep up in the arms race and maintain their bloated economy. You're right that their system was failing, but for decades we had been keeping it alive with aid.

"2) 50 million saved from tyrants: you're not specific, but I assume you're talking about Iraq. Unfortunately, it doesn't directly connect to the question given about promoting American rights. No credit."

Existence is essential to freedom. By fostering freedom in other parts of the world we have given 50 million people an alternative to a life of subjugation, which will help prevent these states from sponsoring terrorism in the future.

"3) Kept liberals from taxing us into the stone age: I guess we had to be satisfied with Bush putting us and our offspring into debt until the next stone age. No specifics mentioned and no evidence provided that this claim could be true. Tax as a threat to our lives: unsubstantiated and unproven. Bush's legacy of ruinous debt: substantiated and proven. No credit."

The president promised that he would cut the deficit in half by 2008. He's already done it, 2 years ahead of schedule. It's remarkable that all you have to do is look at goverment revenue to see that somehow it is up even though we're demanding a lower percentage from each taxpayer. The economy is going through the roof, jake, regardless what the NY Times or the AR Times might say. Isn't that odd?

"4) Saving unborn children for 34 years: probably your strongest argument although the majority of Americans disagree with it. It does lose its value when the speaker strongly supports war and killing. Despite my bias on the matter, you get credit on this one."

That might make sense if it weren't for the fact that it is a farce to compare innocent, unborn life to murderous terrorists.

"I appreciate the fact you came up with this list so quickly. Many others have been challenged and have failed to do so. I suggest you take a little more time and do a better in-depth research. Our list of liberal accomplishments was quite specific to laws enacted and citizens affected (civil rights, women's rights, health rights, wage rights, handicapped rights, conservation, etc.). Naming the legislation is a big plus in this assignment."

Jake, I don't need to do any more research, but if you want more, I'll give you a few. Welfare reform, reducing and helping prevent overbearing regulations on private citizens and industry, fighting terrorism... I could go on, but I'd like to address your list. Civil rights, for instance, as Dr. King actually meant them, are much more conservative than liberal. What liberals call civil rights, affirmative action, etc..., go well beyond judging people by the content of their character to judging people solely based on their race, creed, or color. Much of modern "civil rights" is racist in nature and has nothing to do with equality. Health rights and wage rights damage the average American economically and the economy as a whole far more than they have ever helped him or her. Juat ask employees of the auto and airline industries.

That's all I have for now. I hope your wife made it in alright. Have a good evening.

I still think Pat Tillman's brother gives us powerful words to think about. While I hope Bush makes a more hasty exit long before 2009, should he hang in there he'll never know a moment peace for the rest of his life. Every moment will have to be guarded, he has killed and tortured too many people to gently retire and pretend to ranch in Texas until his final day.

I think he deserves to live like a rat in a cage. When Cheney can no longer get fresh fetuses to recharge his bionic heart he'll lay down and die. Too bad he'll probably make an early exit, he should have to stick around in a cage too.

I have no sympathy for either of them. They've earned the hate of the world and they'll surely get it all the rest of their days. Nony may worship them all he likes, but when all is said and done history will prove me right and him wrong. I hope to see nony on TV 10 years from now speaking of the glories of the Bush administration. It won't happen, just like no one spoke favorably of Hitler after 1945. Or McCarthy or Faubus.

Human have a way of suddenly winding up on the winning side of decency when their cause is proved to be wrong. That's why I hope someone is keeping a list and a stack of pictures of the fine Republicans who have eaten Corkey's BBQ and chummed around with Cheney and Rove on Arkansas soil so they won't be able to hide their guilt by association and check book 10 years from now.

I don't want to be right...I just am right about the partial birth abortion we call the Bush-Cheney administration. A black period in our nation's history. One I never expected to see and one I hope I can forget someday.

Of course you think that Tillman's brother's words are powerful. You think that about everybody who agrees with you. Too bad the overwhelming majority of people in the military don't agree with him. Tillman's brother, unfortunately, has become a poor echo of John Kerry.

"They've earned the hate of the world and they'll surely get it all the rest of their days. "

You delude yourself if you think that anybody other than leftists and terrorists hate President Bush. It just isn't so. The American people do not hate the president. Try to justify the hate in your heart all you want, but you are in the minority. President Bush is making you safer. History will remember him for it.

"Human have a way of suddenly winding up on the winning side of decency when their cause is proved to be wrong. That's why I hope someone is keeping a list and a stack of pictures of the fine Republicans who have eaten Corkey's BBQ and chummed around with Cheney and Rove on Arkansas soil so they won't be able to hide their guilt by association and check book 10 years from now."

You use the word decency, when, in reality, what you are saying is more akin to gestapo threats.

I truly pity you, dbi.

President Bush is making you safer. History will remember him for it.
- Anonymous

Anyone who takes away the right of habeas corpus, condones torture, hired incompetents to oversee FEMA, changed the war on terror into an attack on Iraq, continues to ignore the terrible genocides in Africa, denigrates the advice and good will of other countries, and is afraid to face his critics in public....this man is definitely not making it safer to live in this country.
On your seonc point about him being remembered by history....that will be true. However, don't expect it to be so blind as you are.
Ask John Adams, Woodrow Wilson, or Franklin D. Roosevelt how history remembered their actions on their treatment of American citizens outside the boundaries of the U.S. constitution.
Benjamin Franklin still remains the final and best words on this matter: when you sacrifice your freedoms for safety and security, you will have neither.
Patrick Henry didn't say "Give me safety or give me death." Unfortunately, you will if you support Bush.

"Anyone who takes away the right of habeas corpus, condones torture"

Since that didn't happen, I guess you're just speaking hypothetically. Oh, or maybe you're referring to Abraham Lincoln???

Help me understand how habeas corpus is still intact.

nony, just indulge me and check out our shill, Olbermann.

http://www.transbuddha.com/index.php/P33/

Now Nony,

You know we're not talking hypothetically. It was in the newspaper, the TV, on the radio, and all over the niternet regarding the law signed by Bush and the commentary, even from Republican congressmen, that this bill took away habeas corpus rights. You're like a kid standing before a broken window and saying you don't see anything wrong.
And, gee whiz, if the Ark Dem-Gaz didn't run an article today where good ol' boy Cheney sees nothing wrong with a little water torture. Right there in black and white.

Your own party members and the local Republican mouthpiece refute your bald-faced lie and you're going to stand there and say, "But Mommy, nobody did anything wrong. It just broke itself."

Old Abe did throw out habeas corpus and he promoted the idea of having all blacks moved back to Africa. Both were wrong and historians don't try to hide those facts.

No mercy, Percy, on this one, Anonymous Heironymous. You coughed up a hairball on that last one.