Arkansas Blog

I feel that, in most cases, third parties and independents draw votes from Democrats, at least in cases like Ralph Nader and the Green Party.

I saw a race in the country yesterday where the Democrat lost by just 1% and there was a Green Party candidate in the race who pulled 4%.

That being said, I feel a great connection for those in the Green Party, I think they have the potential to accomplish a lot of good, and I wish them well.

What I'd like to see is a Green Party strong enough to have influence on the Democratic Party, force concession to some Green Party goals, then, as repayment for those concessions, join with the Democrats in a Democratic coalition that keeps the Republicans in the basement where they belong.

Are the Greens really so lazy that they can't get 10,000 signatures out of 3 million to get on the ballot?

Since they think they are above the law, I say we change the law to make it even harder. And this time make sure it's constitutional so they can't challenge it.

I've always leaned toward more ballot access, but the Greens have me leaning the other way. I'm sick of their laziness. If you can't even get a measly 10,000 signatures, you don't deserve a spot reserved on the ballot.

Will Rod Bryan benefit from this? Rod got several thousand more votes than Lendall. Or, do Independents have to stand on their own merit each election? I don't know. That's an honest question.

But, I'm glad Rod got the 12,000 or so votes he did. For an independent that played by the book, campaigned on honest change and used the back of cardboard boxes for signs - Wow! 12,000

Ironic, is Lendall criticized Rod - unfairly I think - when he sued for the right to debate with Bebee and A$a. His criticism was precedent based. Lendall's suite is "poor loser" based. He had his heart set on that 3% and didn't get it. Do you think Lendall will allow Rod to sign on to the suite? Don't bet on it.

If anyone deserves the magic of 3% it's Rod Bryan. Clearly, Independent candidates have a following in Arkansas.

I found myself agreeing with almost everything Jim Lendall says he stood for and I have very much enjoyed his participation on this blog. Jim, I hope you stay with us. You have a great many good ideas and I think you a natural leader and asset to our state.

Rod was feisty and enthusiastic and also has something to offer in our discussion here and to our state.

Gentlemen, you both tried hard. I will look forward to continuing to hear from you here in this forum.

The best way to see the need for more than 2 political parties in America is a quick look at what has come forth from the Democrats, Whigs and Republicans these last 230 years.

In no way could Greens or Independents screw things up to a great degree. I welcome easy entry by 3rd, 4th, and 5th party candidates and I don't think they should have to recite the passenger list from the Titanic from memory to get on the ballot.

I think we must have resonalbe standards for a political party. This is not the same as a single independent candidate. Each party gets to select a whole slate of candidates. In the case of the Greens, about 15 people out of 3 million met and chose theirs. I'm sorry but that's not a party. That's a very small group of people. Hell most 'meetups" would have that many people in attendance. If you make it any easier to get reserved spots on the ballot, you might as well take away all party access to the ballot and make everyone run as individuals.

Ron Rizzardi, Though I am a member of the Green Party, I am not, personally, a party in the proposed suit. Before you call anyone a "sore loser" you might want to check your facts. Some of the Green candidates got over 14%.

The debate suit (Forbes v. AETN) decided by the U.S. Supreme Court ten plus years ago, said that public institutions, like AETN (or this year, the university system) COULD establish criteria that would exclude some candidates from sponsored debates. It was a precedent clear enough even for non-lawyers to understand. Rod was told this many times.

I have been working on changing the discriminatory election laws for many years. As a DIRECT result of my efforts, Rod only had to get 10,000 signatures instead of over 130,000.

Incidentally, I ran and WON as an independent in 1988 and still would have to circulate petitions for the 1990 election even though I had gotten more than 50% of the vote in the previous election.

Prior to the 1970's, all you had to do to establish a party was to notify the Secretary of State. After the George Wallace race, state legislatures quickly established prohibitively-restrictive laws on ballot access. Some of us have been trying to re-open ballot access since then.

Ballot access laws are evolving around the country, primarily through the courts, because the 2 parties in power - who make the laws - do not want the competition and do not believe that voters are entitled to choices other than the 2 corporately-owned parties.

Green party: I tried to join your seems like private party. The person that I made contact with did not send me the info pack with the time and date that you were going to be in my area as he had promised. I asked him who could all join, he said anybody could. I also forwarded him a nasty and uncaring e-mail response from an elected official, that he even agreed was unbecoming for an elected official, who happened to be a Pastor! this Senator/ Pastor, did not give any thought in his reply to me. I give more thought in selecting my dog's dog food then he did in his response. Well, anyway, my question is how were you expecting to get 3% when you ignore people who are trying to join your seemly private party?

I have to agree with the Bold and the Blue. The courts gave you a shot this election and you didn't get it, so quit tying up our court system. If you get the 10,000 signatures or the 3% great, but if not, then you don't deserve another freebie. You don't gain support by looking for the easy way out or a hand-out at every turn.

QUESTION for THIRD PARTY SUPPORTERS:

I ask this sincerely. Our system is based on having two parties. Is all we need to do to fix it make ballot access in the general easier?

Do you think the man or woman that gets the most votes in the fall should win regardless of their percentage?

I'd feel a lot more comfortable with third parties if we had runoff elections for the general. If you don't do that I, think we'll see a lot of Republicans funding Green Party candidates.

Nocribforabed: I'm sorry that no one got back to you, we will try harder - The Green Party has many members but only a few volunteers to do the organizing.

Contrary to what "Thinking Dem" believes, we do not have massive (or any) funds from deep pocket Repugs.

There is no constitutional basis for an EXCLUSIVELY two party system. In fact, the 2 parties emerged as third parties and want to prevent the same happening to them. As I mentioned in a previous note, the 2 parties have tried to restrict your choices to just those two.

Jim,

I was sincere in my question. If third parties are going to turn into real competition should we have run-off elections in the fall?

I have no reason to believe the Greens in Arkansas have gotten any Republican money, and I DID NOT allege that to be the case in my post.

But to the extent a third part looks like it can attract votes that becomes a possibility. I'm just saying that potential for exploitation is there if we don't have run-offs.

Look in the recent PA Senate race where Santorum supporters chipped in to try to get a Green Party Candidate on the ballot.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/15167552.htm

Thinking Dem: IRV (Instant Runoff Voting) is a reasonable possibility and the Green Party obviously has been supportive of that method. It has been tried in other states in local races, but has not been implemented on a state basis.

As I said before, when the two major parties are the ones making the rules, do you expect that they would make it possible for others to have access to the ballot? That is why the Grren Party and Independents have been forced to use the courts to eliminate the discrimination.

Incidentally, since you mention the PA Greens, you might look at the Pennsylvania Green Party situation as an example of how far the major parties will go to prevent any third party from qualifying for the ballot.

Wow!! The Greens are lazy because they are putting EFFORT into challenging unfair ballot access laws?!?

The Green Party is a citizen driven party. These determined every day citizens work very hard and because they are blocked access at every turn, they have to work 2-10 x harder for a fraction of the progress seen by the major parties.

Not sure who you talked to nocrib but believe me, if they welcome ME and my crew, I can assure you they will welcome you as well :-)

Jim has proven his abilities in the legislature. Considering that there were literally only a few weeks to actually campaign between the court victory and the election.umm.yeah.I think 10,000+ votes is pretty impressive. Regarding Rod Bryan, I know nothing about the guy. He could be a great guy. I wouldn't know because unfortunately, I never saw him around these parts. I never saw ANY of the other gubernatorial candidates attempt to actually reach out to this grossly neglected area of the state. JIM LENDALL, however, was HERE.showing genuine concern for our mostly overlooked yet obviously underprivileged population. And Rebekah was here too. IMO, this kind of visibility on the PEOPLE'S level is going to make getting 10,000 signatures something the Green Party supporters will be glad to take on.

"Our system is based on having two parties."

Thinking Dem, that policy changes like a serpent sheds its skin. The rule, if indeed it is, is not constitutional and should not be the basis of allowing access to our ballot system. People should be free to choose, at least in a nation that prides itself on being a democracy, or a democratic republic.
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Jim,
I understand the basis for the suite is because the other Green candidates did better than 3%. I simply pointed out the fact - which is accurate - that Rod gained more of the popular vote than you did personally. Because of that, will your suite benefit him or just the green party?

Any body who wants to be a Green, email me at rebekah.kennedy@gmail.com .
I will take care of getting you an invitation to the ark greens list, getting you on the Green Flash list, I will put you in touch with your county local organization if any and if you so desire I will put you in touch with our grass roots organizers who can help you form a county local if you don't have one yet.

I'm sorry if anyones request to join has been ignored in the past and will try to prevent that in the future. It is not a private party, please join us. The more the merrier!

Peace,
Rebekah Kennedy

Ron Riz.:
Since Rod did not get 3%, I doubt that the lawsuit will affect his status.

I know that my suite of furniture will not help him. :)=

Best wishes Jim. I hope the Green party is successful.