Arkansas Blog

I sure found this entertaining:

"Rutherford, a church-going Methodist, said the left got mad at him for bringing in Karl Rove, so it was fair for the right to get mad at him for bringing in Dawkins. Those probably are symmetrical devils."

Let's see about that symmetry:

Richard Dawkins spends his life giving us scientific research and intellectual advocacy. Karl Rove spends his life giving us George W. Bush.

I suppose there's a symmetry of sorts there: one devil and one angel.

Of course, I don't believe in devils or angels. I don't believe in hell, either, so my conscience rests easy when I suggest John Brummett head there.

This side comment of Brummett's is easily demonstrated to be wrong: "Every nonreligious person in Arkansas must have been there."

How do I know he's wrong? I wasn't there. QED.

Finally, I guess Brummett just doesn't get out much if he thinks this is a surprising or unusual argument: "Dawkins also got asked about the uncommon preponderance of religious practice in the United States, where we have a far greater church-going population than any other developed and well-educated Western nation. His answer was surprising. He speculated it might have to do with our insistence on separating church and state..."

I first heard that argument made in 1990 in a Western Civilization class taught by Dr. Don Engels (a Christian, a bit of a right-winger, and a fantastic lecturer--this unreconstructed lefty made a point of taking another class from him later on) at UAF. I don't think it was original to him, either.

adamsj, I don't think Brummett meant for his comment about "every nonreligious person" being in attendance to be taken as fact--notice, he said "must have been". It's called hyperbole and is often used in a satirical or jocular context. He meant to imply that it was a large crowd (larger than the venerable Madeleine's) that seemed to be largely sympathetic to Dawkins' views.

Hell, I'm a religious person, and I am sympathetic to Dawkins' views.

The kid in the audience who wanted assurance he'd be with his family and friends in heaven is not religious, merely brainwashed and pathetically naive.

>>The kid in the audience who wanted assurance he'd be with his family and friends in heaven is not religious, merely brainwashed and pathetically naive.<,

I must appreciate Dawkins' approach to this delicate situation. He was thoughtful to differentiate hope from belief.

Yet widj your comment brings up another phenomenon of recent years. Back in late 90s AETN did a series on death and dying. It did not contain any reference to the great retirement home in the sky. It probed the possibility that it was an 'Unknown Journey.'

Since our nation's takeover by the Republican Taliban such discussions NEVER appear on pbs.
Now they actually show things purportedly about the discovery of jesus' shroud, and finding the grave where he was allegedly buried. That one still stumps me. Why is a burial spot important since the myth says he arose?
But still in this Age of Belief-sims and Rovian manipulation, selling Armani Ronnie, was so nice that such an intelligent person could be heard in Central Arkansas. Wish I were there.
_

I will bow to widj's reasoning and not point out that I wasn't there either, though I wanted to be.

As a formerly religious person, I know both sides to the coin. I didn't set out to lose my faith, it just happened and I doubt I'll get it back until the doctor gives me that final bit of bad news. Then I expect to revert to the animal I am and beg and beg and beg to live on to 120 or 150. Death is so final!

My concept of religion growing up was that everyone had it, but it was more of a hobby like growing roses or being fairly serous about quilting. I assumed everyone went to church, but only got to monitor my neighbor's cars still at home on Sunday morning. It was rare that I was home on Sunday morning to count cars, but it happened now and then.

Except for when JFK ran for office, there wasn't much mixing of church and politics. Of course all our legislators were Christians, even the ones who hadn't been to church in years. But....religion back then wasn't used as a club to beat someone to death with. Religion was only talked about at church, the rest of the time we just went about our business.

I will admit I had an anti-Catholic bias back then because it was taught to me from the pulpit. Distrust Catholics, and Jews, because they killed Christ ya know. And just feel slightly sorry for Methodists and Presbyterians, they were alright, just mostly misguided about that dunking business.

As I have said, a seed of disbelief was planted the Sunday after JFK was killed. Even at the tender age of 8, I knew adults weren't supposed to be happy that a President had been killed. Only with G. Bush have I finally understood the depth of their hatred and now I admit maybe I was too hard on those old Baptist who saw the face of the devil every time they looked at John Kennedy.

Still I am not happy or proud to think how happy I'd be if Bush and Cheney both were found floating belly up in the fish tank tomorrow. My old Baptist buddies saw evil in Kennedy's Catholicism, I use hundreds of thousands of dead bodies in Iraq, and a thousand dead bodies around New Orleans to measure Bush's evil.

We will be in ever increasing trouble and misery unless we manage to put the religion Jeannie back in the bottle all over the world. Osama attacked us because of US airbases in Saudi Arabia AND because he thinks it was the will of his god.

The civil war in Iraq is over power AND differences in religion. The Bible thumping fanatics in the US are happy to send our kids to die fighting the Koran thumping fanatics of the Middle East. Find something more ironic. Find something more dangerous. Find something more deadly!

Dawkins is right based on known facts. I don't view him as a recruiter, I take his message as an OK for me not to be a believer. Funny I can get along fine with people at the mall who believe in ghosts and Martians, but see the makings of a bloody battle in the future with people who will not rest until I am forced to believe in God.

Atheist are all around. They work and play and raise their kids and pay their taxes and make good neighbors. Check the history of US serial killers, few if any were atheists. We simply must turn down the volume on religion before the whole world catches on fire.

In heaven all the interesting people are missing.

Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

wldj,

I expect you're right about the hyperbolic nature of that statement. I still find it belittling, but perhaps I should evolve a thicker skin.

Brummett's "symmetrical devils" crack still pisses me off, though. I mean, Rutherford inviting Karl Rove to speak is no different from a microbiology professor bringing plague bacteria into his lab for students to study. Who would criticize that? Not this lefty.