Arkansas Blog

Educanto! How dare you use Greenberg & Co.'s word against their benevolent master? If you compare Hussman to Justice Jim, use "inky wretch," and quote Mencken, you'll have the entire Democrat-Gazette editorial oeuvre right here on this blog.

ARK. BLOG: Thanks for noticing. I should have called them the Walton gang of educantists.

It seems that teachers, education system, i.e., are only obsess with money, money money... Insanely sbessed with it.. We'd have to give them all we own to satisfy their lust for supremacy in the world.
It this crap grows and spreads everywhere then the commerical that says we will be nothing more than a brain. We'll have to have someone to feed us and put our clothes on us, etc., etc., etc....Our bodies will dry up but the brain will grow bigger and bigger...

Chasv,

As politely as I can tell you, what you just wrote was utter nonsense. You haven't the faintest notion about the situation and yet you issue these screwball pronouncements. Please, get some facts at your fingertips, talk with some of the people involved in the classroom around the city, learn a little respect.

Look at this list from what you wrote: insane, obsessed, lust for supermacy, bodies will dry up but the brain grows bigger. For your own sake, don't reveal your ignorance and delusional thinking about this subject. Sad to say, but the Devil had your tongue and mind when you wrote today.

There are too many fine people, most of them upstanding Christian men and women whom you profess to admire and support, within the teaching profession for you to go making such foolish and insensitive statements about them. To say otherwise is to reveal your unwarranted bias and your unfailing ability to insert one foot solidly down your throat while kicking the other one into your hindquarters.

Have you no sense of decency or pride in yourself? How someone can profes to be a Christian and come off saying the hateful lies you speak is beyond me. Just when I was beginning to have a modicum of respect for you, you go and do this. Pray to your God to forgive you for you have trespassed against many of his followers and against his dictum to tend to the children of this earth.

I hope you're man enough to admit your mistake. It won't be easy. But, it will be a sign that your God has opened your eyes to the truth and that Satan no longer has control of your heart and mind.

You have broken the commandment about bearing flase witness; you have ignored the teaching to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I hope you'll do better in the future. It's what you wish for us so you should understand if we also wish it for you.

Jake, I think you're asking entirely too much of Chasv.

I'm not very good at exorcisms. When you go to deliver eviction notices to them little devils, they start this weird head-spinning stuff and are pretty gross with that projectile vomiting of pea soup all over you. But, I'm armed with my trusty Alegbra book and shall utter Quod Erat Demonstratum fervently while shielding myself with the ancient symbol of our faith and reason, the compass. That sharp pointy end has its advantages in such situations.

If worse comes to worse, I'll quote that famous scripture about two trains heading towards each other from two different cities at different velocities. The all time demon baffler may be needed for chasv: the one where you must figure out how long it takes to fill a tub while the water is draining is unplugged. The mataphysical ramifications of that one cannot fail to send the wicked wretches scurrying back to their dark lord's realm.

It's the only humane thing to do in some cases.

Seriously, durango my man, I can only hope he sees the error of his ways. He must be taught again before he can enter into that next grade and learn that one shouldn't make it a habit of throwing spitballs at the teacher.

Oops again...

2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence should read: "while the water is draining and it is unplugged...."

Must've been remembering that obscene joke about the nubile math teacher and the vibrating slide rule.

hey Jake I am talking about people, espesially like you, who make 4 hundred dollars a day doing nothing worth the pay you receive. Well, that is stealing I know.
Sure you would come to the defence because you have made lots of money off none other than the tax payers.

Did I imagine it, or did a thread about ACT scores mysteriously disappear?

ARK. BLOG: Aliens hijacked it. I overlooked an embargo and posted it a few hours too early. It will be back at the appropriate time.

If you have any memory left, you know I don't yet have such a job. I'm still waiting to submit an application and learn more about it.

I'll guarantee you that if I'm hired to do work that is worth $300-$400/day, I will be worth it. If you just want to insult me, you are way out of line and are making this far too personal. I don't make it my business to judge how much you make nor how much you deserve it or whether you're worth it. I don't know you, your business, nor your experience in such.

If someone is willing to pay for my expertise and thinks it is worth that much, then who are you to criticize. If a ball player can make thousands of dollars everytime they swing at a pitch or shoot a basket or make a play, then what is so bad about paying professional teachers to go out and share their knowledge, skills, and experiences with beginning teachers after observing them.

Your answer is the insult, of course. You are like the fox in that famous Aesop fable who can't reach the grapes hanging above his head. To everyone that passes his way, he tells them how sour and bitter those grapes are and not worth their time.

Regular teacher salary ranges from $150-$225/day and this is for a full-time salary. So, you see $300-$400 is well within scale and is similar if not nearly as good as other consultant fees in other fields. Again, you reveal your ignorance of the concepts of modern finance and wages. Some of us have worked our way up in the field and find it an honor and a challenge to help the next generation in our profession. The pay for such talent and time is commiserate with the going rates in other fields across the country. It is the norm, in other words.

Durango is right. You are a spiteful, mean person. It seems to be ingrained in you to insult that which you know little about, belittle those you don't understand, and whine incessantly. Poor baby, as my mother used to say.

Take a moment of your time and do me a favor. Click on my name and find the entry with my name. Just maybe you'll realize how little you know about me. It's called Hymn Service and the piece I wrote was one I called Listen and Learn. I commend the lesson to you. It was about a very special moment.

If you apply for some well-paying job that you feel qualified for, I hope you won't have to suffer the outcries of others telling you that you are not worth it. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

The grapes aren't as sour or bitter as you think.

"Maybe principal and teacher quality matter. Maybe, and there's no data in the release that addresses this, student body composition -- race, economic background, parental education background -- also matter.".........
........maybe maybe maybe...... but as long as the Educrats and the Board members turn purple and foam at the mouth at the mention of MERIT PAY is it highly unlikely we will ever find out what matters.

ARK. BLOG: As long as the right-wing ideologues try to game the system with false and/or incomplete comparisons to put their pet projects in place, some of us will likely to continue to foam at the mouth.

This study has several problems:

1) The variables or ill-defined.
2) No control group mentioned or used.
3) No comparison to similar studies being done (if such can be done).
4) No comparison to other plans for improvement.
5) No break down by race, income, sex, etc. (although I assume some of that will be forthcoming).

Teaching is not a sport and shouldn't be treated as such. Professional development and improvement should be an across the board, school wide goal. There are many plans that are much cheaper than merit pay, have proven track records and have been shown to work in the toughest of urban schools. They have been designed by teacher teams, fully supported by parents and the community, and have far better statistical improvement in scores than this paltry result from LRSD.

Adequate investment in time, in-depth training and money to implement any one of these successful plans would have paid far better dividends than the Merit Pay proposal. LRSD has tried a few times with some of these plans from out of state but wound up short due to inadequate training of personnel. Too often, it was sink or swim after a brief introduction to some of the plan's key points. Much, much more practice and study was needed to develop an understanding of those plans. Too little was given. In other words, the plan and participants didn't reach critical mass.

"It seems that teachers, education system, i.e., are only obsess with money, money money... Insanely sbessed with it.. We'd have to give them all we own to satisfy their lust for supremacy in the world." ~ Chasv

Lordy - that's funny.

Number one: we're not obsessed. Don't most folks care about their salaries and benefits and other such monetary-related issues? I don't think teachers are "insanely obsessed" with it; it's just a natural concern along with many other topics.

Number two: I've never met any teacher with a "lust for supremacy." Who do you know that acts like this? How many teachers do you know personally? Could it be that you're using the ever popular technique of hyperbole?

If you think we educators are too concerned with money, maybe, just maybe, it's because of how grossly underpaid we are as professionals. As I posted on an earlier thread:

*************************************************
It's not about how many days one works a year (which, by they way is WAY more than the contracted 190). It's about what we value as a society and what individuals in certain fields contribute to the greater community. Consider:

Average MLB player: $2,699,292 - http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/info/faq.jsp#average

Average NFL player: $1,100,000 - http://www.nflpa.org/Faqs/NFL_HopefulsFaq.aspx#2

Average NBA player: $4,000,000 - http://www.nbpa.com/about_nbpa.php

Average teacher: $41,400 to $45,920 - http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos069.htm#earnings
***********************************************

Now, please add to this salary the fact that if a teacher were to have the unfortunate need of medical insurance through the school (and was also married with children), it would cost ~$700 PER MONTH. That exact amount varies by district depending on how much the district chooses to contribute to employees' health care plans. This is the amount in my school district. That's immoral, IMHO. Dang, it's no wonder we teacher-folk worry about every penny we earn.

On a different note - I don't necessarily agree with merit pay. There are too many problem areas, especially if pay is based on test scores. In our district, we have point-in-time assessments (nine-weeks tests, if you will) that we have a few teachers currently cheating on - and that's without any merit pay being involved. Imagine what might happen if dollars were attached to student scores.

"... are only obsess with money, money money..." ummm obsessed, past tense

"...Insanely sbessed with it.." obsessed

"We'd have to give them all we own to satisfy their lust for supremacy in the world." What is the definition of supremacy? What characterizes it?

"It this crap grows and spreads everywhere then the commerical that says we will be nothing more than a brain." Incomplete sentence; fragment is word salad

"We'll have to have someone to feed us and put our clothes on us, etc., etc., etc....Our bodies will dry up but the brain will grow bigger and bigger..." Why will we lose the ability to dress and feed ourselves? Are you implying paralysis or brain damage .. this sentence makes no sense.

Is English your primary language?

Mean and stupid is a very dangerous combination.

Are we going to school here? lol I don't believe we are..
Jake it is personal when your pay comes from the tax payers like me.
Good attitude though, Jake, if a job pays that much I am sure you'd earn every penny.. But I don't think there's a job in education that merits all that much pay. There's always someone qualified who'd do it for less.
Been a while but I remember when we got our education out behind the barn.
The controls of education should be solely in the parents hands or/and parents should have more say about what kids are being taught.
Merit pay will cause more teachers to pass more kids in order to receive merit pay. Don't you think?
If it is started in LRSD it no doubt will spread all over the state.

Chasv, did it ever occur to you that Jake and all those other highly-paid educators (you've GOT to be kidding) are taxpayers, too? Do you think you're special and deserve a metal because you're a taxpayer?

Chasv, a TAXPAYER, he will have us know! Big Woo. My guess is that Jake's tax bill far exceeds yours, but that's neither here nor there.

I used to think, bud, when reading your entries on this and other issues, that you were just pulling our leg; that you got your jollies by banging out nutty stuff and watching the rest of us recoil in horror. But after more thought, I've come to the conclusion that, no, you're for real, because the rushing river of nonsense you post here is too preposterous to be joke material.

"Merit pay will cause more teachers to pass more kids in order to receive merit pay. Don't you think? " - chasv

If merit pay is based, in part, on nationally norm-referenced tests, the grade inflation that you fear will be quickly identified. Remember the Grade Inflation Index?

"I remember when we got our education out behind the barn. "

Yep. That explains the distinctive horse manure aura to your comments. If you haven't noticed, many of us are still trying to take you to the woodshed for some further education. If it's any indication, success is very, very limited. As Uncle Dudley says: The boy couldn't pour water out of a boot with the instructions printed on the heel.

"I don't think there's a job in education that merits all that much pay. There's always someone qualified who'd do it for less. "

Why don't you take your logic up to Springdale and talk to Reverend Ronnie Floyd. His yearly salary is $158,000. Tell him that you speak for all Christians. The average Baptist minister's salary is around $55,000 to $60,000. "Therefore, there is no preacher's job that should be worth what he's getting. Let's go get someone cheaper. God speaks only through me, by the way. I am a tither."
As Uncle Dudley says: The boy's antenna doesn't get all the channels.

"Merit pay .....if it started in LRSD it no doubt will spread all over the state. "

Get your facts straight. Merit pay started elsewhere in the state. Do some research before you open your mouth and say anything else wrong. As Uncle Dudley says: He's proof that evolution CAN go in reverse.

"The controls of education should be solely in the parents hands or/and parents should have more say about what kids are being taught. "

Look up representative democracy. It's how this country works. It's how most parents politically participate in school decisions. Overall, parents have the right to select where their children go to school, whether it be public, private, religious, or at home. As Uncle Dudley says: The boy is all foam and no beer.

If I had to rank the thoughts coming out of your head, I'd put them on a metaphysical par with zits. Or as Uncle Dudley would say: The wheel is spinning but the hamster is dead.

"Adequate investment in time, in-depth training and money to implement any one of these successful plans would have paid far better dividends than the Merit Pay proposal. "

Great, now set up a study with reasonable methodology that compares these two.

If it is too expensive to fund both, maybe you can get an outside source who has an interest in the project and is willing to dump big bucks into it.

In reading Cynthia Howell's article on the test results, I thought I detected a hint of caution about interpreting the data. LRCTA President Koehler made some thoughtful comments. Ritter was non-committal.
Doesn't it seem odd that it will take until October to decipher the test results? Does an office supposedly filled with research/data experts need 60 days to interpret test data from only 5 schools? Is there something missing from this equation that would make such a long period of time necessary?
I remember our small math team in high school was able to break down test data by class, by student and by question in about 48 hours or less for approximately 400 students. The computer program one of our own designed worked extremely well and it didn't take us all that long inputting the data since the students all used bubble sheets to record their answers.
I imagine that the data is mostly ready. I also think that the perograms to interpret it should already be in place from last year and only need some minor tweaking (which could already have been done while waiting for the test results). I say release the data as soon as possible. Interpreting is just a polite word for putting spin on the story. It usually reveals a bias from the author than from the data.

ARK. BLOG: Jake, they are still tussling to explain a throwaway line in the news release asserting that most LR schools don't exceed national norms. To make such a statement, you'd presume they have a list of all schools' averages. So far, they haven't been able to produce it. I also learned that some of the data and news release was prepared by Lisa Black at the LR Public Education Foundation. Interesting,

It would also be interesting to know the average growth in scores nationwide, in similarly situated schools and school districts, etc. I'm particularly interested in the highest-earning teachers. What are they doing? Who are their kids? Etc. I thought it was interesting that the D-G story didn't get to outcomes until after the jump, where you found the news of decidedly mixed results.

A lot of people say Ritter is a straight shooter, unlike Jay Greene, Walton shill in chief. His analysis also should be interesting.

Max,
I agree that Ritter is more preferable than Greene. Still, why all the time? Is it for the outside information for comparison? Data crunching doesn't take that long with high-speed computer systems. I'm just curious as to the complications that make this such a laborious and time-consuming task.
Certainly, the key should be comparison nation-wide. As for the local results, the who and what needs as much defining as the how. (Beginning to sound like Dr. Seuss here!)
The D-G's editorial reaction will be very interesting indeed considering the mixed results and seemingly poor comparison to national norms.
You say educanto, I say educantist. We'll see which way they go.

ARK. BLOG: I agree, by the way. I think the Walton influence and Greene's ideological bent and its benefactor's participation in this project should disqualify it from studying the project. Hah.

OKay, great to know. If anyone has a need to know about schools this is the place find out what's happening...I wish every person in the state had half as much knowledge as some of you turkeys do. I know it don't occur to any of you but I think that over half of the citizens in this state do not know what going on in their schools.
The only thing most of us know is they are forever and always needing more money. Every time you turn around we are forced to go vote against a property tax.
O, one turkey says that teachers have to pay taxes too.
Well, anyone's pay depends on taxes collected I might be willing to vote for more taxes to raise my pay but I'd be wrong to do it... That's a good thought, teachers should be exempt from paying taxes on their homestead.. then they'd have more money and less grips about pay. lol

Jake I know some pastors get paid a lot but it's up to the church members to pay them not taxs payers. The gospel is free to all who want to hear it.
IF you loved the Lord like you should and as educated as you are you and it others on here could be making those big bucks somewhere. Don't muzzle the ox that treads out the corn.

I guess your Lord just delivered you into my hands because you've basically just agreed with me in a lot of your logic, whether you realize it or not. However, I realize your Lord has made you dense for a reason and who am I to argue with such wisdom.

For one who obviously has so little knowledge of the lives of teachers, the ins and outs of education, the economics of the system, the information needed to make realistic wage comparisons, the common practice in many fields to pay experts/consultants for their experience and expertise at the going rate, and of the shortages in the teaching field requiring less than qualified teachers who need to be trained further, and so on....for someone who apparently knows so little about this and demonstrably so when other teachers look at your comments, you overrate yourself when it comes to making judgments when you admit your only qualification is "taxpayer" as if that is supposed to prove you know it all.
How arrogant you are. It is this sin of pride that blinds you to your ignorance and your bias. Your very last sentence can equally apply to how you should treat teachers. Think on it. You can pretend to yourself that you speak wisely, but to those of us who've dedicated our lives and efforts to this profession and to the children, you speak nought but empty phrases, twisted ideas, and foolish sentiments.
In my pidgin Spanish, you are full of Toro Crappo. Anyway, you've proven my points quite well and I thank you. It's been a pleasure this time to have your assistance. Your Lord does work in mysterious ways. I'm sure he recognizes who wants the talents to be used for bettering the world and who wants them buried in the field to lie wasted.

Click on my name for a 20 page tract of information about Virginia's Teacher Mentor/Advisory program. It will give you some idea of the requirements and the expectations of those hired to serve their state in such a capacity. Personally, I find the challenge to be fascinating and hope that Arkansas can find plenty of teachers to meet the requirements.

Jake don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.
Turkey.

Again you prove my points. There's another thread going about Huckabee and imprecatory prayer which might be more in line with your experience and study. And, the bloggers were asking about you.

I must heed my own advice and cease tossing insults at you. My information is solid and truthful. Your inability to understand or accept certain facts does not prove them wrong or improper.

The US government is spending $900/day for certain defense specialists in Iraq who are basically just killers for hire and you want to waste our time complaining about taxpayer money being spent on paying some of the state's best teachers to spend a few days out of their retirement at a reasonably standard rate to help improve the quality of our state's education system.

So help me, I will not insult you because I can rely on the facts of the matter, something which you do not have nor wish to know about. You've been going downhill with all your arguments ever since you equated the ideal education with something that occurred to you behind the barn. You made it sound like something you stepped in.

There is no patting on the back in my corner. I'm just sadly resigned to the fact that proving anything to you is useless. That you choose to continue your fumbling arguments is becoming a boring exercise in futility.

There's an apt old joke about a rabbi, a priest, and a Baptist preacher out fishing together in the middle of the lake. The rabbi says he has forgotten his favorite fishing pole. He says a prayer to Jehovah, steps out oif the boat and walks on the water back to shore. Just moments later, the priest says he needs to go back to shore and get his hat to protect him from the sun. He says a Hail Mary, steps out of the boat and walks on the water back to shore.
The Baptist preacher who has been puzzled and amazed by these seemingly miraculous events, decides that if those two can walk on water so can he. He says a special prayer, steps out of the boat and immediately sinks to the bottom. Sputtering, almost drowned and quite perplexed, the Baptist preacher drags himself back into the boat.
Meanwhile, on the shore, the rabbi says to the priest, "Don't you think we ought to tell him where the rocks are?"

I've been trying to tell you about the rocks but you've refused to listen. Instead, you've sunk beneath the waves trying to prove you could walk on water. The rocks are just below the surface and moer discernible if you're not busy looking at your reflection in the water.

I, too, learned a lesson from you. Not all baptisms take.