Arkansas Blog

"Arkansas's ban is enshrined in its constitution, so it's impervious to a similar argument here."

The marriage ban in Arkansas, whether its in the constitution or not, can still be overturned by a court of law. So either thats sarcasm or a fallacy-laden statement. Either way, equality will come to our state like others one day, hopefully soon.

The same sex marriage ammendments only affects a small percentage. Not that it isn't important.

But what we really need, based on tales from my married friends, is a "Some Sex" Marriage bill. Law would simply state that Some Sex (as determined by the married couple) three times a week, four during vacation weeks, be mandatory.

When does the ledge get back?

Sorry to interrupt, but I'm just now listening to NPR's "Day to Day" coverage of the LR Central crisis. The audio will be available at 2PM CDT at http://tinurl.us/ee9926

I'll post the full URL at my name.

And back to the subject, that was hilarious, IABL. DBI will be all over that.

One thing marriage guarantees is the same sex over and over again....

CNN link at my name..

The court order has been halted.. However a couple managed to get married before the halt.. He he

US Church backs same-sex marriage

Massachusetts is currently the only state to allow same-sex marriages
The million-strong United Church of Christ (UCC) has become the first major US Christian denomination to come out in support of gay marriage.
The UCC's general synod passed a resolution affirming "equal rights for couples regardless of gender".

The decision is not binding and will not require pastors to marry same-sex couples, though some already do.

Several other Churches have endorsed gay civil partnerships but have not given them the status of marriage.

The Episcopal Church (the US branch of the Anglican Communion) and the Evangelical Lutheran Church permit same-sex unions, while the Presbyterian Church is seeking to resolve severe disagreements over the issue.

US conservatives are seeking to amend the country's constitution to ban same-sex marriage, which is currently legal only in the state of Massachusetts.

Vermont allows same-sex civil unions, giving gay couples the same benefits as married couples on matters such as life insurance, health care and child custody.

Neighbouring Canada's lower house of parliament passed a law allowing gay marriages last week, which is expected to come into force in July.

'Courageous'

Around 80% of the UCC's 884-member synod voted in favour of the resolution on Monday.

Rev John Thomas, the UCC president and general minister, noted the significance of passing the resolution on US Independence Day.

"On this July 4, the United Church of Christ has courageously acted to declare freedom, affirming marriage equality, affirming the civil rights of gay... couples to have their relationships recognised as marriages by the state, and encouraging our local churches celebrate those marriages," he said at a news conference after the vote.

UCC churches are autonomous, and the synod cannot dictate policy to individual congregations.

Nevertheless, opponents of the resolution said it could cause a split.

"I would like to see us stay in the denomination and network for positive change, said Rev Brett Brecker, who represents a conservative group in the Church.

"However, many of my members have expressed very clearly that this decision would cause great consternation and that, if this happened, they would want to see us leave."

The UCC, which is strong in New England, an area traditionally more tolerant of same-sex unions than other parts of the country, became the first major denomination to ordain an openly gay minister in the early 1970s.

It declared itself to be "open and affirming" of gays and lesbians 20 years ago.

The Church has almost 6,000 congregations and 1.3 million members.

good news Eureka and now they should kick that judges's ass off the bench forever.

Ah, look at this in the Midwest. I'm sure there will be a fundie eruption shortly.
A 63 page decision issued today by the Iowa District Court for Polk County said that same-sex couples must be allowed to marry based on the Iowa Constitution's guarantee of equal treatment under the law. The case was filed by Lambda Legal on behalf of six same-sex couples and their families in Iowa.
"This decision brings to life the Iowa Constitution's promise of equality for same-sex couples and their families in Iowa," said Camilla Taylor, Senior Staff Attorney in Lambda Legal's Midwest Regional Office in Chicago.

"This is a significant step forward in recognizing the constitutional rights of all Iowans, and it's an amazing day for same-sex couples and their families all across Iowa," said Dennis Johnson of Dorsey and Whitney, co-counsel for the Plaintiffs with Lambda Legal.

In his decision, Judge Robert B. Hanson said, "Couples, such as Plaintiffs, who are otherwise qualified to marry one another may not be denied licenses to marry or certificates of marriage or in any other way prevented from entering into a civil marriage pursuant to Iowa Code Chapter 595 by reason of the fact that both persons compromising such a couple are of the same sex."

Yep. Daddy Dobson is on the case...
Dr. James C. Dobson, founder and chairman of Focus on the Family Action, called it another example of a judge legislating from the bench.
"Once again, we see an activist judge handing liberal activists what they have not been able to achieve legislatively or at the ballot box: government sanctioning of same-sex marriage," he said. "This purely political ruling proves yet again that nothing short of a federal marriage-protection amendment is sufficient to preserve one-man, one-woman marriage in our nation.

"By striking down Iowa's DOMA, Judge Robert Hanson has shown he believes the desires of adults should trump what's best for children. His ruling represents social engineering at its worst."

well dang Rlr those names you mentioned being churches are not churches that chirst started and they are nothing but man made organizations...
They have no commission from God at all and they never did.

good news Eureka and now they should kick that judges's ass off the bench forever.
by chasv

Ah chasv.. Why are you so quick to think about a judges ass? You have a little suppressed fantasy you want to share with us? I know, I know, you just want to point us all away from the real truth.... as long as we look anywhere BUTT your Republican party.. the party everyone knows attracts the most hypocritical perverts of all.

You clean up your party.. we will clean up ours.

chasv, your ignorance is laughable in the very least.

"well dang Rlr those names you mentioned being churches are not churches that chirst started"

How do you compare that with the Great Commission, "Go ye forth into all the corners of the world, proclaiming the Good News of Christ."

The Episcopal and the UCC both proclaim the Good News of Christ and therefore fulfill the Great Commission.

"they are nothing but man made organizations"

Hmmm, chasv, once again I ask you how do you equate that with Christ saying, "You are Peter and on you shall I build my church."

"They have no commission from God at all and they never did."

Christ was asked what the greatest commandment was and he replied, "Hear O' Israel....Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul. Love your neighbor as yourself. On THESE HANG ALL THE LAWS, PROPHETS, AND COMMANDMENTS."

Strike three and you're out Chasv! No pun intended. :)

Drew... seriously, Man....

Just widen your stance, tap your foot, and accept it.

I said kick ass as in foot kick, not ass kiss as you love to do . I hate what queers do. YOU sound like a real one.

Drew, Peter was not the church. And he is not the head of any church, understand? Get that?
Go read that again and try harder to understand what Jesus meant. The bible is of no private interpretation.

People who twist the words of Christ into lies may not make it to heaven.

Well I said they were man made but it could be proved they are satans churches.
You don't know it but we are not under any laws or prophets.
If you were smarter you'd know the law was nailed to the cross.

well dang Rlr those names you mentioned being churches are not churches that chirst started and they are nothing but man made organizations...
They have no commission from God at all and they never did. Posted by: chasv
RE Chasv.
Christians today cite the abolitionist Christians of the 19th Century as the
"true" voice of Christianity in the period of slavery, all the others --
pro-slavery -- having gone astray and not (in retrospect) being
representative of "true" religion. In the same manner the UCC will be
re-framed in the 22nd Century as having been the "true" Christian voice on
this issue.

"People who twist the words of Christ into lies may not make it to heaven."
by: chasv

Chasv, you're so goddamn entertaining...man!

Let me see if I understand, chasv -- if the church is not the one you attend or accept, it is not a real church, but Satan's church?
Uh huh.
By the way, which church is yours? I do occasionally attend a church here or there -- weddings, christenings, funerals, the sort of thing that comes up every now and then -- but depending on your answer, I may have to reconsider my policy.

Civil unions between male couples existed around 600 years ago

Civil unions between male couples existed around 600 years ago in medieval Europe, a historian now says.

Historical evidence, including legal documents and gravesites, can be interpreted as supporting the prevalence of homosexual relationships hundreds of years ago, said Allan Tulchin of Shippensburg University in Pennsylvania.

If accurate, the results indicate socially sanctioned same-sex unions are nothing new, nor were they taboo in the past.

"Western family structures have been much more varied than many people today seem to realize," Tulchin writes in the September issue of the Journal of Modern History. "And Western legal systems have in the past made provisions for a variety of household structures."

For example, he found legal contracts from late medieval France that referred to the term "affrèrement," roughly translated as brotherment. Similar contracts existed elsewhere in Mediterranean Europe, Tulchin said.

In the contract, the "brothers" pledged to live together sharing "un pain, un vin, et une bourse," (that's French for one bread, one wine and one purse). The "one purse" referred to the idea that all of the couple's goods became joint property. Like marriage contracts, the "brotherments" had to be sworn before a notary and witnesses, Tulchin explained.

The same type of legal contract of the time also could provide the foundation for a variety of non-nuclear households, including arrangements in which two or more biological brothers inherited the family home from their parents and would continue to live together, Tulchin said.

But non-relatives also used the contracts. In cases that involved single, unrelated men, Tulchin argues, these contracts provide "considerable evidence that the affrèrés were using affrèrements to formalize same-sex loving relationships."

The ins-and-outs of the medieval relationships are tricky at best to figure out.

"I suspect that some of these relationships were sexual, while others may not have been," Tulchin said. "It is impossible to prove either way and probably also somewhat irrelevant to understanding their way of thinking. They loved each other, and the community accepted that."

Original Story: Gay Unions Sanctioned in Medieval Europe
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20070827/sc_livescience/gayunionssanctionedinmedievaleurope

"The bible is of no private interpretation. People who twist the words of Christ into lies may not make it to heaven."

Rather hypocritical statements coming from the one who often offers us his views on the Bible and has on occasion ignored some of the precepts of his own Savior.

I won't get into any long, drawn on debate on the subject. The righteous Pharisee can have the floor as far as I'm concerned. He does more to get people away from his beliefs than I ever could so who am I to hinder such a disciple.

AT LEAST HE IS NOT POURING OUT HIS SCREED IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS SO WE WILL KNOW HOW TRUTHFUL HE MUST BE!!!!!

Some people take the saying "Be a fool for Christ" way too literally, as they tend to take their Bible so often. Too bad literal doesn't necessarily mean spiritual.

Anyway, no more from me on this thread. I've got better things to do and hope everyone enjoys their Labor Day weekend. Jesus said a lot about changing the way things were done in this world and how people ought to be a lot more forgiving than they are. It's sad that adherents of Peter formalized it so much and that the Apostle Paul added twists that Jesus never talked about.

I guess that kind of thinking comes from me being more spiritual than literal, something entirely foreign to righteous Pharisees. So easy to quote scripture and verse, so hard to love and forgive.

So, please forgive me....I'm going to have some fun!!

"Between two evils, I always choose the one I never tried before." - Mae West

"One thing marriage guarantees is the same sex over and over again...."

LOL...thanks Eureka!

Of all the sins bandied about in the bible, I don't understand why so many so-called Christians seem so obsessed with homosexuality. Both gluttony and adultery are mentioned more often and are obviously more prevalent than homosexuality but I don't see any so-called Christian crusades to legislate face stuffing.

The Episcopal Church (the US branch of the Anglican Communion)...

Probably only until September (or possibly Lambeth 2008) when the Anglicans kick them out specifically for adopting gay marriage and homosexual bishops.

How freaking funny chasv. Somehow I just knew you would have a lot of comment on this topic, however wrong headed it is.

Oh, and Dogigotta asked a really good question that you haven't seen fit to answer yet so I'll ask again.........Just exactly which church do you go to and adhere to. We all have inquiring minds and want/need to know.

>>Arkansas's ban is enshrined in its constitution<<

Anyone recall the actual wording of Ark's marriage amendment? Didn't it prohibit Ark from recognizing gay marriages from other states?

However, I noted in the Iowa article, a gay couple who were married in CANADA wasn't worried about U.S. laws.
Hmmm.
.

those names you mentioned being churches are not churches that chirst started and they are nothing but man made organizations...
They have no commission from God at all and they never did. <<
by charlieV

Hey chasV. Boy you're Jesus juice is cookin today. Glad you realize ALL those churches are nothing but man-made organizations, including yours.
.

Couple weds before same-sex marriages halted

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- Two men sealed
the state's first legal same-sex marriage with a
kiss Friday morning, less than 24 hours after a
judge threw out Iowa's ban on gay marriage and about
two hours before he put the ruling on hold.

Sean Fritz, left, and Tim McQuillan
show their wedding license before getting married.
It was a narrow window of opportunity.

Thursday afternoon, Polk County Judge Robert
Hanson temporarily cleared the way for same-sex
couples across the state to apply for marriage
licenses in Polk County.

He ruled that Iowa's 1998 Defense of Marriage Act,
which allowed marriage only between a man and a
woman, violated the constitutional rights of due
process and equal protection of six gay couples who
had sued.

County attorney John Sarcone promised a quick
appeal, and he asked Hanson to stay his ruling until
the appeal was resolved.

A dozen gay and lesbian couples were waiting at
the county recorder's office when it opened Friday
morning.

By late morning, 20 had applied for marriage
licenses when Recorder Julie Haggerty announced that
she had been instructed to stop accepting the
applications. Hanson later said the judge that he
had formally stayed his ruling.

The judge's stay means the recorder's office is
not permitted to accept any more marriage
applications from gay couples until the Iowa Supreme
Court rules on the county's appeal.

Sean Fritz and Tim McQuillan were among the lucky
few to get their application through.

The marriage license approval process normally
takes three business days, but Fritz and McQuillan
took advantage of a loophole that allows couples to
skip the waiting period if they pay a $5 fee and get
a judge to sign a waiver.

Friday morning, the Rev. Mark Stringer declared
the two Iowa State University students legally
married in a wedding on Unitarian minister's front
lawn in Des Moines.

"This is it. We're married. I love you," Fritz
told McQuillan after the ceremony.

Fritz explained their hurry: "We're both in our
undergrad programs and we thought maybe we'd put it
off until applying at graduate school, but when this
opportunity came up, we thought maybe we wouldn't
get the opportunity again."

Republican House Minority Leader Christopher
Rants, said the ruling illustrates the need for a
state constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.

"I can't believe this is happening in Iowa," Rants
said. "I guarantee you there will be a vote on this
issue come January," when the Legislature convenes.

Gov. Chet Culver left open the possibility of
state action.

"While some Iowans may disagree on this issue, I
personally believe marriage is between a man and a
woman," the governor said.

Gay marriage is legal in Massachusetts, and nine
other states have approved spousal rights in some
form for same-sex couples. Nearly all states have
defined marriage as being solely between a man and a
woman, and 27 states have such wording in their
constitutions, according the National Conference of
State Legislatures.

Dennis Johnson, a lawyer for the six gay couples
who sued after being denied marriage licenses in
2005, said Iowa has a long history of aggressively
protecting civil rights in cases of race and gender.
The Defense of Marriage Act contradicts previous
rulings regarding civil rights and is simply "mean
spirited," he said.

Roger J. Kuhle, an assistant Polk County attorney,
argued that the issue was not for a judge to decide.

Hanson ruled that the state law banning same-sex
marriage must be nullified, severed and stricken
from the books, and the marriage laws "must be read
and applied in a gender neutral manner so as to
permit same-sex couples to enter into a civil
marriage ..."

"This is kind of the American Dream," said
plaintiff Jen BarbouRoske, of Iowa City. "I'm still
feeling kind of shaky. It's pure elation. I just
cannot believe it."

Kate Varnum of Cedar Rapids, another plaintiff,
said she was elated but expected more legal battles:
"I don't expect this to be the last one."

Even though the county Web site explaining how to
apply for a marriage license still began with the
words, "Marriages in Iowa are between a male and a
female ...," several couples were waiting when the
county recorder's office opened at 7:30 a.m. Friday.

Katy Farlow and Larissa Boeck, both Iowa State
University students, were waiting in lawn chairs
outside.

"This might be our only chance," Farlow said. "We
already knew we were spending the rest of our lives
together."

More Real (gay )News for chasv he can use welcome to the twenty first century CHASV !

Equally Speaking

8/31/2007

First up on HRC's daily webcast, big marriage news from Iowa. Yesterday, a district court in Iowa concluded that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to equality in marriage. Lambda Legal brought the case - Varnum v. Brien - on behalf Iowa families who were denied marriage licenses. While this is an important victory, the issue is far from resolved as the state has already indicated that it will appeal the case. Observers expect the case to reach the state Supreme Court.

In national news, Congress comes back from recess next week and we expect GLBT issues on the agenda. The Employment Non-Discrimination Act, or ENDA, has been scheduled for a subcommittee hearing in the House on Wednesday, September 5. Following that, it's expected that ENDA will move quickly through the full committee to a floor vote by the end of the month.

Over on the Senate side, the Matthew Shepard Act may also be up for consideration in the Senate during September. The hate crimes bill passed the House earlier this year and was offered as an amendment to the defense authorization bill in the Senate. We expect the defense bill will be considered again in September, and the Matthew Shepard Act will once again likely be considered as an amendment to the bill.

Turning back to some state news, a strong call for hate crimes laws came from California this week. The state Senate approved a resolution urging Congress and the president to strengthen the federal hate crimes law. Senators passed the bill by a 22 to 1 vote. Earlier this summer, the Assembly passed the same resolution with a 70 to 1 bipartisan vote.

Yesterday brought a great win for equality in Maine. The state's highest court ruled this week in favor of a lesbian couple seeking to adopt the children who have been in their care for six years. Ann Courtney and Marilyn Kirby were denied adoption by lower courts but this week's ruling pointed out that nothing in state law bans two unmarried people from adopting children.

Finally, to Florida, where Broward County officials have voted unanimously to oust Fort Lauderdale mayor Jim Naugle from the county's tourism board after the mayor repeatedly made anti-gay remarks. As an area with a heavy GLBT tourism market, Naugle's remarks are seen as a deterrent to tourism.

I am a member of the church that Jesus Christ founded some two thousand years ago... The one he is the chief connerstone of, He is the Rock that it is built on... Oh, you haven't heard about that Church? Now you have!
Jake, I'll put it this way if a person does not believe the bible, the teaching of Jesus, he will not go to heaven! That is not my words it is in the word of God.
RLR who said that it was legal? God does not reckonize churches that his Son didn't found although they can preach the gospel and souls can be save in them. There is a way unto man that seemeth right but the end thereof is death.. Theres lots of denomination that believe like those you mention but they are not the Lords Church!
I better explain something. A man doesn't have to belong to a church to be saved but he does have to be born again. The church can not save anyone but it can teach anyone how to be saved.

Have any of you ever read the book, "The Trail of Blood?" Those churches you are talking about are not in the trail but are in another line of churches that were started by man, not by Christ.
I hope you all get saved and none of you die without Christ.
Jesus said he came not into the world to condemn the world but that the world though him might be saved.
All of you should know the scripture that says that the carnal mind is not subject to the laws of God and indeed can not be...

WHO'LL BE THE NEXT REPUBLICAN HYPOCRITE TO BE DRAGGED OUT OF THE CLOSET SCREAMING ABOUT MEDIA WITCH HUNTS?

at my name

Chasv, you must be speaking in tongues... speaking in tongues is just one of the gifts, RIGHT MAN?!?!?

Chasv seems United Churches of Christ(UCC) are not the only ones who respect and afirm gay couples as well as ministers and pastors.

Lutherans to allow pastors in gay relationships

Lutherans to allow pastors in gay relationships
'That is huge,' says spokesman for 4.8 million-member church

August 11, 2007
CHICAGO - Clergy members who are in homosexual relationships will be able to serve as pastors, the largest U.S. Lutheran body said Saturday.

The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America passed a resolution at its annual assembly urging bishops to refrain from disciplining pastors who are in "faithful committed same-gender relationships."

"The Church ... has just said, 'Do not do punishments,'" said Phil Soucy, spokesman for Lutherans Concerned, a gay-lesbian rights group within the church. "That is huge."

The ELCA, which has 4.8 million members, had previously allowed gays to serve as pastors so long as they abstained from sexual relations.

The conference also instructed a committee that is developing a social statement on sexuality to further investigate the issue. The committee is scheduled to release its report in 2009.

Since the ELCA was founded, the group has ordered three pastors in gay relationships to be removed from their ministries. The most recent case was decided in July when the ELCA's committee on appeals voted to remove an openly gay pastor from St. John's Lutheran Church in Atlanta.

Sorry, chasv.....you still did not answer the question as it was asked. I'll speak slowly this time....what church do you adhere to, are you a Baptist, Catholic, Assembly of God, Pentecostal, or what?

He's Missionary Baptist, Charles Eddie. Said so a few days back when he and I wrangled back and forth over religion. If I remember right, the Bible doesn't once mention anything about church affiliation being checked at the Pearly Gates.

The notion that something has to last for an eternity, whether good or bad, with such a limited repertoire of activities is pure idiocy. Doing the same thing o'er and o'er while basically in a mindless condition makes oblivion far more appealing and much more of a blessing.

"Faith, n. - Belief, without evidence, in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - Ambrose Bierce

Thanks for the heads-up on chasv's church affilation, Jake. Knowing where he's coming from helps understand some of the things he says. Missionary Baptist's are just about as conservative as they come.

RLR the lutherans are nothing. They are not the church Jesus started! It doesn't matter if they have a hundred times that number. As a matter of fact none of those churches you mentioned are the Lords church!
You are right jake it don't matter. That's why I didn't think to tell eddie the name. The only thing that matters is if you are wearing the wedding clothes the Lord gives you. If you don't have them on you will be thrown out of the wedding ceremony. There is only one other place you can be if you are thrown out.

Jake when you see the Lord it will be too late for you to be saved because faith, like believing in something you cannot see, is the only way to please God. You must believe or else it will be hell. No man can see God and live. Is that a mystery to you?

The notion that something has to last for an eternity, whether good or bad, with such a limited repertoire of activities is pure idiocy. Doing the same thing o'er and o'er while basically in a mindless condition makes oblivion far more appealing and much more of a blessing.

Jake, 1 corinthians 2:9 says, "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.. That is you and me.
Is that doing the same things over and over? I don't see it that way. Anything will be far better than being in hell.
Don't be too wise because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1 cor. 1:25
A man without knowledge of the word of God is ignorant.

Quoting is not knowledge, chasv, and the way you haphazardly quote scripture demonstrates that you understand nothing. Knowledge is about understanding. You are in for a BIG surprise following your last breath.

I understand how we started down this path in this thread -- the growing acceptance of same-sex unions, including marriage, by religious establishments in the U.S.

Still, I think it would be great if we could keep the various faiths out of the decision as to what government permits. Personally, my faith demands control of my life; however, it is rooted in the gift of free will and therefore demands to be removed from the ambit of government compulsion.

This should be a good thing, even for chasv and his fellow believers, since it means that the likes of United Methodists and (gasp!) A.M.E.s (African Methodist Episcopal churches) cannot embed our ideas on faith into the law.

Besides, folk like Drew Pritt and RLR are probably right in suggesting that the force of reality may someday erode the opposition of some organized religion to the union of same-sex couples. After all, it is pretty hard to square the modern church's ideas about divorce with what Jesus and Paul had to say about it. The realities of the way us flawed humans live our lives kept beating against that door until it shattered. And in the end, Religion had to cede that thorny issue to God.

Any being, human, alien, or an imagined deity, who can demand worship, practice mind control, and put those who protest into a concentration camp to be tortured is an abomination to the spirit and to the idea of spirituality.
I do not abide such wickedness no matter what faith or sect proclaims it so and no matter how many scriptures they may quote.
I do not think any being who behaves like a Nazi deserves to live much less be followed.

widj, believing the Holy Bible separates the wise from the fool with a capital letter. Anyone who quotes it is wiser than the most highly educated person on earth.... There'l be more educated people in hell than any one else I bellieve from what I see and hear.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

TAP what laws do we have that are not based on the word of God?
Without them what a mess our country would be in?

"...what laws do we have that are not based on the word of God?
Without them what a mess our country would be in?" by: chasv

You are GOLDEN MAN, GOLDEN I SAY!
What a mess our country...IS... in!!!!

bejeeus, That is what I am afraid of. You are so ignorant that you don't know where most of our laws came from.
Have ye never heard, "thou shalt not kill, steal, lie, bear false witness, drive over the speed limit, cheat and have no other Gods before me, etc.??? Most laws stem from all these.

Get your head out of the sand hill.

"You are so ignorant that you don't know where most of our laws came from."
by: Chasv

Why how Christian of you chasv, assuming not comprehending is your forte!

Some day you guys and gals are going to figure it out: chasv is actually John Brummett, incognito, coming here now and then just to tease you. Sort of like we boys did back in elementary school when we pulled little girls' pigtails. No doubt Brummett (excuse me, chasv) goes to bed chuckling every night. Maybe even hee-hawing.

Chasv, I understand your point about many laws being rooted in Christianity (or what I would call the Judeo-Christian tradition).

What I would ask you to consider is the many things commanded of Christians (for purposes of our discussion) that our government keeps its hands off, for good reason. The IRS would be a good mechanism for collecting tithes, but I think it's good we don't do that. We could ban divorce for any reason other than adultery, but our country is better off that we don't go that route. We could jail people for refusing to honor their parents; thank God we don't.

There are countries that do put people in jail -- or worse -- for having sex outside marriage; do you think that would be good for us?

I will admit that the conscience of our founders and lawmakers (many of whom were God-fearing people) has led to some good laws to protect the innocent. When it comes to same sex unions between loving and committed people who want to acknowledge their relationship, there is no one who needs protection. It's a great opportunity for Religion and government based on religious thinking, to keep its hands off.

"Some day you guys and gals are going to figure it out: chasv is actually John Brummett, incognito, coming here now and then just to tease you." by: durangokid

We can only hope, durangokid.

Trust me....chasv is not Brummett. He's real, righteous, and ready to rumble with the disciples of Satan, Santa, and Sanity.

If I didn't care about you people I would keep my big mouth shut and let each of you go on to your final destination. But you know what? I am that sign that says detour, bridge out, slow down, speed up, turn right at next road, left, stop or go.
God is Good to me! I have no need for anything or anyone because he supplies my everything. I have seen him and have heard him speak to me... God is Love!
Let every tongue praise him.. How can homo's who he did not make praise him? He made male and female. Male has always fit with a female and vise versa but never male fit male or female with female because they'd be leaking all over the place. That is odd and queer.

TAP you for one make some very good points but never forget that God is the one who makes governments! That is a fact. Believe it when he says that any nation that forgets him he will destroy that nation... God caused the flood that only Noah and his family escaped by God's Grace!

Next.