Arkansas Blog

Not that I see any great concern here for chicken plants but suffice it say they are safe. There will be sufficient alerts so that a show-bust of illegaies can be done from time to time to appease the declining masses of
white boys who fear people of colour. One processing exec told me repeatedly a while back there are simply not enough local workers to fulfill demand for labor. If you are Hispanic and gut chickens and want a promotion the surest way is to take your vacation down South and return with extra hands. Then, hey, free markets kick in and the Southward bound Hispanic employee maybe can make a business of it. With modern computers, paperwork is no problemo.

Then there's that supply and demand stuff, of free markets, you know where the wage offer is the pivotal variable.

Wow, the State Police are showing some real initiative here. Apparently they have so much time on their hands, they're volunteering for some additional work. When they start enforcing immigration laws, will the guys from ICE please come and patrol our highways. It would be refreshing to be able to drive somewhere without having to endure at least one near-death experience per mile.

And at the risk of having eLwood accuse me of overcomplicating this issue again, why can't we just make employers pay a living wage and provide safe working conditions for all workers? Then the two sides of this argument (we need the workers vs. you're driving down our wages) would sort itself out.

The "free market" B.S. flew out the door with WAL-MART 'Every Day Low Price' ...chickens can fly, RIGHT?

Funding is not an issue, Max. 287(g) allows federal grant money to pay for the training of officers when the memo of understanding is signed.

If you are so worried about funding, maybe you should call up Nancy Pelosi - who wants to zero-out 287(g) funding?

ARK. BLOG: Right. I don't want the program, period. But training is only a small part of the cost of a new trooper. car, gun, salary, etc., make up most of the cost.

I suppose you nailed it bejeeus since Wally recently dropped the "Low prices" bit in favor of "Live Better." But, free markets are rarely free, save for the privileged few on the gubbermints "freedom" lists.

>>but only pursuant to a memo of understanding between "the state of Arkansas" and the federal government<<
Most likely the state boys will ride behind a localized ICE officer. I saw my first Springdale policeman-ICE officer a week ago assisting in a DUI stop just North of the hospital.
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So how many more troopers could we afford if they were to stop shooting the mentally disabled and stop ferrying our governors around so they can go running (whether in marathons or for president)?

A-Red says funding is not an issue. Funding never seems to be an issue with republicans these days. Let's just use some of those tons and tons of federal money we have lying around. Since federal money is involved, is the training going to be done (per a no-bid contract) by Halliburton or Blackwater or are they the same?

Vegan, I think you missed the intent of my post, or I missed the intent of yours, maybe we both missed.

The redneck element of Ark's R party, including Jon Woods, does not understand the economics of poultry industry. If you want to keep $3.50 retail chickens then wages will remain on the low end. If you and major overseas buyers are willing to pay another .50 per bird then raise wages. As an aside the local natural food coop manages to sell organic chickens for $22.00 each and it's a non-profit organization. In down times, which the poultry industry experiences too damn often, it would mean more unemployment than is presently the case. Last time I looked the primary cost of producing a chicken was feed, about 60%, which research may have lowered by now. With bio fuels running up feed costs NWA producers are in a squeeze, esp Tyson. Google just about any financial report on Tysons.

The poultry industry is a multi-level industry with food costs often eating up revenues. There are egg producers plus incubation, primary growers, feed , transportation operations, processing-packaging-storage and marketing. Just from that you can see the industry is complex enough. They don't need worker harassment added on top of a host of other problems. Believe it or not the industry does do good checks on worker documentation. But the companies are not engraving experts and as I posted above today's computer graphics can counterfeit worker documents pretty damn easily.

I see Jon Woods having some strong competition next time around. The G.O.B.s in Springdale know who butters their bread and it ain't the likes of Jon Wood nor Jim Holt.

By the way, I'm all for a "living wage." However to recently arrived Hispanics $7.50 per hr with med and dental benefits after 6 months is heaven. IF they stay their pay is systematically increased.
Their options are few. They can thumb a job with local contractors and run a 40% chance of wage theft. It happens daily. Few of them are aware of their rights because Ark does not post official labor notices in Spanish, a practice that should be changed.

I think you're correct from start to finish, eLwood.

>>According to Bates there are 8,000 (legal) Marshalleese immigrants in Springdale. They're the most unhealthy immigrant group in the state, known to suffer from TB, VD, and leprosy. Not a single case of the latter has been cured. Bates also said that, in contrast to Hawaii, which has $10 million federal dollars for its Micronesian population, Arkansas gets nothing for its Marshall Islanders. ("That's horrible!" gasped someone on the panel.)<<

Most Marshallese who are chronically ill suffer from one of many types of radiation sickness. Between 1946 and 1958 the United States tested 66 nuclear weapons in the Marshall Islands, including the largest nuclear test the United States ever conducted, Castle Bravo. No warnings were given to surrounding islands. People became ill by the thousands. Some were lucky and died quickly. I personally heard the stories from several Marshallese at a Remembrance we held for them two years ago. People here in their 50s and 60s come down with many types of cancers. Later there was treaty signed with the U.S. which provided for relocation for any Islanders who so desired. The terms were never kept by the U.S. Rep. Boozman makes half-hearted attempts to secure funding for them. The Jones Center for Families in Springdale plays a critical role in helping them maintain their ethnic identity. They are not fairing well on the high fat, high salt U.S. diet. Many were accustomed to a diet of fresh veggies, sweet potatoes and fish.
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Every policeman or county sheriff should be rounding up every illegal and holding them for deportation.
They have been trained and now they must get busy doing their job of protecting.

eLwood, before I start crying for the poor chicken industry executives, let me concede that I know nothing about the chicken industry (except that apparently at some point they get a fecal bath, the chickens, not the execs). The cheap chicken argument, however, sounds a lot like low Wal-Mart prices; if people were making a living wage, they could afford to pay a few more cents for the chicken. They could be selling for 2 cents, though; and I still wouldn't be buying or eating them. And I won't start the argument about how many more people could be fed if we did not use so much grain to fatten up an animal in order to kill that animal for food. And I won't mention antibiotics or hormones. I will say that if Tyson or ConAgra is having financial difficulties, how about they stop buying up all the small organic food companies.

As I said the other day, this is a complicated issue. And it is made more so by the fact that a different ethnic group is involved, which makes for an easy target by the bigots (and bigoted politicians) but also makes it easy to fling the bigot term at someone disagreeing with you whether she or he is one or not.

The basic issue here (other than bigotry) is the same involving Okies and Arkies during the dust bowl or northern vs. southern workers when industries began to move south -- management can get one group of workers to work for considerably less money, with fewer benefits and generally without benefit of union representation. The group that is losing the jobs is pissed.

Management is arguing that American workers are lazy and greedy and won't do the work, so they have to hire undocumented workers. It's just a coincidence that they can get these workers so much cheaper and without having to provide all those pesky benefits that American workers have come to expect, and that they don't have to be so concerned about providing a safe workplace because they know a worker who can be deported isn't very likely to complain about such things. Their credibility is not real high with me considering they're also whining about the economic necessity of being allowed to pollute every stream within reach.

There's probably a little truth and a little exaggerating on both sides. What I was trying to say is that if all employers had to pay a living wage, by northwest Arkansas standards, and provide a safe workplace, and still couldn't get workers from the local area, then everybody should just shut up and let them hire anybody they want.

So, enlighten me. Are all workers in the chicken industry being paid a living wage by northwest Arkansas standards? If we actually had a department of government that checked on workplace safety, would this industry pass muster? And just out of curiosity, is this another industry in which top management is making about a thousand percent more than wageroll?

And just for the record, I'm not for rounding anybody up and deporting them or for building a fence to keep them out or depriving anyone of an education or health care because of their immigration status or ethnicity. And further, if the State Police do as good a job of arresting illegals as they do of catching other scofflaws, especially on the highway, nobody's got anything to worry about (except me, who will now get a ticket every time I leave the house).

Some very good points, V4H.

Whew, V4H. I like it when you get wound up.

yeah, I like Vegan wound up too. She's tight and concise and there's something sexy about a sharp,pissed off woman.

But before you get too wound up --Tysons will be a big supporter of Hillary's. Don't overlook that she and Bill were married in Tyson's chief attorney's home. The food industry will institute slow and steady worker gains just as they have for the 35 years I've watched them.

If I were a charlatan I would say why not set starting pay at $25 hour? What I do expect in the not so distant future is more union activity. Those lowly paid messicuns won't stay that way for long. And by the way, that wall you despise would do more to raise chicken workers' wages more than anything.

You disappointed me. The worst thing to happen to poultry-meat inspection was Bush's USDA allowing producers to set their own inspection standards. But the fecal bath stuff.... a bit overblown. Check sources.
I once sold them their factory cleaning chemicals. They were then very meticulous with cleanliness.

You drape me into positions I do not support. I'm one of the chicken industries worst critics on local pollution. There are many ways to correct it which would cost so little and independent growers have developed them and put them on display. Composting litter is one. Another farmer I met was successfully composting dead, chickenhouse birds using some organics he concocted. You can compost anything organic. Then he discovered the EPA would not allow it even though his tests results were good.

Yes, I know a few fellows who became wealthy working at Tyson. They started at low positions and stayed 25+ years. One of them is a Hispanic fellow who lives a few blocks away. He's been there as an engineer for 12 years. Takes every stock option he can get. I imagine several at the top make a few million per year as to be expected from the largest meat producer in the world and a Fortune 500 company. Will Hillary tax away those obscene incomes? Never. I wouldn't be surprised if she fails to support increased union organizing power either.
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Maybe a little explanation is needed. How the stream pollution works-chicken farmers must clean out their growing houses after each flock is sent off to the factory. Egg farms must too. The litter-waste is then spread on this porous limestone terrain as fertilizer and seeps or runs off into the stream depleting oxygen and and increasing algae growth which kills off many bottom dwelling aquatic creatures. Of course the growth hormones and antibiotics create monsters out of everyone who drinks the water containing it, that is ,the hormones and antibiotics that don't leach out in the seepage process. Lots of freaks up here. It depends upon which water shed a chicken farmer is located as to whether his/her spreading chicken litter will end up in Illinois Watershed which flows into Okla. There are 3 major watersheds. Two feed Beaver Lake, NWA's water supply. We use osmotic filters at home.

The absolute worst waste run-off is by swine farms. A pig requires a 9:1 ratio of input to yield and consequently makes lots of waste. Most are raised on elevated concrete platforms and it's simply easy to wash the floors and trap the waste into some kind of device. It doesn't breakdown as quickly as chicken litter. Keep that in mind when you enjoy ribs, sausage, bacon or ham. One solution is to feed the swine droppings of undigested food in fecal matter. So they raise them in tiers. Top tier gets the real food, next tier gets first choice food-laden feces, and third tier gets the shit. You never know what you are buying, first tier, second tier or third tier.
I don't eat pork.

Too bad we can't just vote Yes or No on this issue. I believe the nays would have it.

We got too many tired and poor americans of our own to take on anymore.

Think about this one..

How to catch wild pigs.

There was a Chemistry professor in a large college that had some Exchange

students in the class. One day while the class was in the lab the Prof

noticed one young man (exchange student) who kept rubbing his back and

stretching as if his back hurt. The professor asked the young man what was

the matter. The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had

been shot while fighting communists in his native country who were trying to

overthrow his country's government and install a new communist government.

In the midst of his story he looked at the professor and asked a Strange

question. He asked, "Do you know how to catch wild pigs?"

The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young

man said this was no joke. "You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place

in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to

come everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day,

you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming.

When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you

put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat

again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a

gate in the last side. The pigs, who are used to the free corn, start to

come through the gate to eat, you slam the gate on them and catch the whole

herd.

Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around

inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to eating the free

corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the

woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.

The young man then told the professor

that is exactly what he sees happening to America.

The government keeps pushing us toward Communism/socialism and

keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as

supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, dairy subsidies,

payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. -- while we

continually lose our freedoms, just a little at a time.

One should always remember, "There is no such thing as a free lunch!" Also,

"You can never hire someone to provide a service for you cheaper than you

can do it yourself.

If you see that all of this wonderful government "help" is a problem

confronting the future of democracy in America then do somehthing about it.

Yikes, eLwood, if I wasn't already a vegetarian, I would become one after reading your posts. My information is from a publication of the Center for Science in the Public Interest (the people who are always criticizing all food), so I believe it to be accurate; but it is possible (I'll concede possibility, not probability) that improvements have been made since I read it several years ago. And this is anecdotal but back around that time I was talking with my aunt, who worked for the University of Maryland Extension Service, and she told me that after she toured a chicken processing plant, it was a good two years before she could bring herself to eat chicken again.

And you scoff about my concern about hormones and antibiotics, but there was a news article just the other day (of course, since it was in the MSM, it probably isn't true) reporting that young boys are undergoing breast reduction surgeries in record numbers. There's something for you and DBI to mull over. And there's a reason for all the little froggies with the extra legs, and the problem of dealing with drug resistant bacteria because of the overuse of antibiotics.

As for the EPA, I'm not surprised, sigh. And I do despise the concept of the wall, but more than that I just do not think it would work and would end up being just another big waste of money (which would probably be paid to Halliburton through another no-bid contract), not to mention a giant eyesore.

And as I keep saying, I don't think Hillary is perfect or will be able to solve all the country's problems. I'm voting for her because I think, all things considered, she's the best candidate in the race. I think we Democrats, though, have an embarrassment of riches in our presidential candidates; and I will be proud to vote for whichever one gets the nomination.

Back to the food, though, here's an editorial showing the joke may indeed be on me. In case the click on the name doesn't work, here's where to find it:

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070919/OPINION02/709190304

>>reporting that young boys are undergoing breast reduction surgeries in record numbers. <<

Strangely enough, the last reporting I saw on that phenomenon is that it's correlated to sun spot activity. After high periods of extreme sun spot activity there will be more females born and males with higher levels of estrogen. Somewhere in my solar files I have that story but I won't spend an hour digging it out. It was in Time magazine back in late 90s.
Regarding the deformities in reptiles it's most likely radiation of some type is the culprit. It could be chemical.

Had you listened to Medea Benjamin today on Randi Rhodes Show (Air America) you would re evaluate your support for Hillary. Medea was thrown out of one of Hillary's rally by her "goons" because she wore a TShirt saying "Get us out of Iraq Now." Medea said that Hillary's goon squads are much rougher and "worse" than Geo. Bush's squads. Medea is co-founder of Code Pink. She's a great, committed woman and I had the fortune of having lunch with her earlier this year in Fayetteville when she was here helping set up a local Code Pink org.

Don't get too many progressive hopes up for Hillary.Other than women's rights she will stay with her roots of being a Goldwater Republican, which I imagine the late AuH20 would have supported.
Regarding workers rights don't expect Hillary to buck supporters like Tyson Foods. Ain't gonna happen.

"CODEPINK is a women-initiated grassroots peace and social justice movement working to end the war in Iraq, stop new wars, and redirect our resources into healthcare, education and other life-affirming activities" blue name

chasv I've read that lame-ass story a hundred times since it was first published in the 60's. Most animals are "opportunity feeders." They don't sit and consider how they may loose their freedoms cause their first motivation is to survive. Many wild and domesticated animals are not as smart as you regarding freedom.