Arkansas Blog

So if the owner of a Christian bookstore refused to hire a gay person, because homosexuality is against her religious beliefs (said beliefs being the basis for the business), then the gay person can sue the owner of the Christian bookstore?

So the actual, Constitutionally-protected, right of free expression of one's religion is now subservient to the right of someone's homosexuality?

You're okay with that, aren't you?

I foresee a huge rush of gay people wanting to work at Christian bookstores. That's like black people wanting to work at the Klan headquarters, more or less.

Religion has killed so many people that the more restrictions we put on it, the better. Fundamentalist Christians and their denominations have proven to be a greater threat to society than machine guns.

Hey Arkasnas Red, what if I were an athiest. Does that mean I should be able to fire all the Christians who work for me?

Hey, an atheist with a Bible bookstore. That's fair minded.

So you don't think someone with an agenda won't try to apply at a Christian bookstore and sue the life out of them when they don't get hired?

Okay, then KnocKnock. Let's say I was at, oh, a university, where I'm interested in upholding science and reason. It's okay, then, if I refuse to hire Christian professors? Or fire them if I found out they're Christian?

Let's say I was the owner of a very profitable strip club, and....
I'm sorry. Lost my train of thought.

there are exemptions for small business--like your religious bookstore.

also not to defend the 25 dems who voted no, but the real vote was on the republican motion to recommitt--kill the bill. on that vote only 14 dems voted to kill the bill and ross and berry voted with snyder.

How do we know the applicant didn't come into the interview with a belly shirt on and a feather sticking out of their rectum?

Too soon?

Rev. Pat endorses the cross dresser. Click on Cato

This is somewhat of a bitter sweet victory, because this was the "watered down" version of ENDA (HR 3685) that did not have protections for Gender Identity or Expression (unlike the original HR 2015).

Still its better than nothing, and hopefully th e Dems get a backbone and put in transgender protections and maybe (gasp) someone in the Arkansas Ledge will consider introducing a state ENDA. Its also interesting to see the DINO's come out of their rocks. I emailed Mike Ross concerning this issue, and did not receive any reply....obviously this is his answer.

I will remember this vote Congressman Ross come next November. You can earn that Extra Class ham ticket (you're still only a novice) and get bills passed and bring us all the HDTV distant network stations on sat dishes, but your bigotry concerning GLBT Arkansans and Americans will not be forgotten from this ham op (general class) and trans* person.

Gays are already taken care of. I am so sick of gays telling us they want to be treated just like everyone else, and then go cry to the government like babies, and demand special rights. The same thing goes for gays wanting to marry. They are not discriminated against because they cant marry their partner of the same sex. Why I cant marry my best friend if I was gay. We have the same rights. Gays just want special rights. And by the way, what you gays do in the bedroom makes me vomit. And yet you walk around like you are the cleanest, purest, and smartest beings on earth. Just get back in the closet. Mark my words, your going to get a bunch of lawsuits because some fag thinks that mcdonalds didnt hire him ( or them ) because their gay.Whatever. AW

"I am so sick of gays telling us they want to be treated just like everyone else" awrocksu

OK chasv....quit hiding behind the new name...sheesh. According to my reading of the Constitution of the United States of America, "gays are just like everyone else." Only a dinosaur would make a statement like that. Only a dinosaur would think there are people and lesser people. We are all the same and unless convicted of felony crimes, we all should have the exact same rights.

Click on my name to read about a fine Republican who is 100% not gay, someone no one would call a fag. Someone awrocksu/chasv wants us to be like....instead of one of those fags.....

OK....I jinxed it by saying Boozman voted right the last 3 times....he just had to cast a bad vote to spite me!

I will call Berry's office tomorrow and demand an apology. Not only have I considered him a friend, but I have given a lot of money to him over the years and if he supports discrimination, (which is against the Democratic platform), I'll withhold financial support and vote against him next time around.
I suggest that everyone on the blog contact 50 friends and encourage them to do the same.
This just really pisses me off.

I cannot figure out congressman Berry.. I would have to say this year he has been correct more times than Snyder and often is the only correct D vote from AR... Then he does something like this.. so blatantly discriminatory. And at a time when the best thing D's could do politically is get out ahead of the focus on the family christian communists..or whatever they call themselves and call them out for the bigots they are. Do the right thing, stand up for it instead of taking a whipping for being wrong over and over again.

awrocksu
You say "what you gays do in the bedroom makes me vomit. " So, if your wife gives you a blow job, or lets you, uh, go up the other entrance, you'd vomit too? I'm not a big fan of the latter, but the former is a major plus for any lady interested in further "communications". Must we then assume your a missionary position only, don't look, and get it over with type? Or have you experimented with the dark side and had your woody waxed? If you haven't, I'll be the first to highly recommend it.

I understand that gays/lesbians want to be considered "normal" but lets face scientific facts...they are not.The human species reproduces in one way and one way only and that is by male to female union.If there is anyone that can show that two males or two females can reproduce the species on their own then I will admit I am wrong,but as far as I can tell no child has EVER been produced by same sex unions EVER.Yes I know that humans have more complex feelings and emotions that animals do not and that some species of animals can spontaniously change sex when the need arises but you still cannot get around that ANYTHING outside of male to female union is by strict scientific standards "abnormal" for our species.Now I do not mean that people should be denied housing or jobs because of their behavior but this madness of elevating gay/lesbian and whatever other abnormality that springs up in humans to the same level of heterosexuality has got to stop.

Since when was a person defined by what he did in his or her bedroom?!?!?! Should I go into a job interview reminding everyone that my wife and I enjoy doing 69s? It's no one's business. The majority of people in the world do not agree with homosexuality yet you people still insist on shoving it in peoples' faces. I don't remind everyone that I'm straight, why do you have to remind everyone that you're gay? You can't force people to see things the way you do and that is what this legislation does. It penalizes people who have different values and ideas. That is why I am against this law. I don't hate gay people and the truth is, you gays wouldn't have a safe haven here in the US if it weren't for Christianity!!!!! Try and ask gays in the middle east how they are treated. Oh, wait, they are all dead or in hiding. Hmmmm. At least they don't have to put up with people that don't agree with their lifestyle choice like these poor oppressed homosexuals in the USA. Keep fighting against those who protect you and you might find yourself standing alone when the shit hits the fan!!!!!!!!!!!! Fools are never happy, even when they have everything.

mrjeff.. are you on drugs or just under the age of 11? What makes you think sex is only about making chitlins.. You call that normal? You think marriage is only about reproduction? I don't understand homosexuality but i have to say I feel a sense of bewilderment and sympathy (among other things) trying to understand your views on sex or marriage in any formation. Perhaps you need to just quit trying to get a grip on homosexuality and work on having fun with whatever floats your own boat. After all isn't that most important... as long as we don't condemn others for something we may not even understand. I don't get you but wish you only the best...

At least you seem to get the point others deserve any rights you may have... except it's not about elevating..it's about ending bigotry and oppression in any form.

this is going to be kind of like when my cousin told me she hated the aclu. she said it was because of a certain case they defended . i explained that it wasn't them. she then said it was another case. i looked it up and i told her it wasn't them again, she said it was another case, i said that was somebody else. she kept naming reasons to hate the aclu but none of the reasons were right, they were all cases that were all other people and she finally said well they just mess with peoples lives. well that is what is happening here. the people are going to find out that the gays do nothing wrong but they are just going to say that they just mess up peoples lives anyway.

In matters of sexuality, are nuns normal? How about veterans who lost their bits on the battlefield? Only "normal" people are entitled to basic (American?!) human rights and protection from oppression?

Oh yeah, and you have to be married to seal the deal on normalcy. Married people = stability. The widow woman who took in her infant niece 8 years ago when she was orphaned has no business raising that child. But the married couple cooking meth and hosting cockfights (uh-uh-uhn!) should be able to adopt the little girl. Makes sense to me.

Some of you people should not call yourselves Christians. You're just scared of what's not normal. (If you get to the Pearly Gates and Saint Peter is tsk-ing and shaking his head, just be reminded of this blog thread.)

We needn't discuss whether one person chooses his/her/other sexuality.

It is what it is and it's none of you're beeswax.

The human species reproduces in one way and one way only and that is by male to female union.If there is anyone that can show that two males or two females can reproduce the species on their own<<<

Ok, let's hear it for Mary Cheney and her wife. Both have sworn off dick and they have this child.
Ark would take it away and she could be fired from any job.

Why do I have this feeling we've been joined by the won't-ever-serve-in-Iraq young Republicans all of a sudden? Obviously mrjeff and chidochuck have yet to even have sex. What is normal...is what 2 consenting adults of any sex choose to do together in private. If sex in America was only for the creation of another human, they'd only be about 158 sober people FK'ing tonight.

Who are you to tell me what is normal? How can you vote for Cheney-Bush and even pretend to be normal yourself? Waging a fake war to steal oil is far more abnormal and sinful than any sex act performed by any human or animal.....even with a child! I'm not a big fan of sex with children...but even that goes pale next to the slaughter of nearly a million people in Iraq.

You children and old dinosaurs are always talking about the majority this and the majority that....but you fail to understand we've seen this movie before...the majority didn't want white and black marrying, before that they didn't want them eating together or going to school together. Before that the majority didn't want women to vote. Years before that the majority thought slavery was A-OK. And if you go way back...the majority wanted Jesus crucified.

Learn a little history before you show your ignorance in public. And just wait until Jeff Gannon/Guckert writes his tell-all book. I think you'll find out your beloved President has a little taste for the male tail. Wise up!

Homosexuality is a perversion. It is good and natural for a man to be with a woman, not another man. Think about what exactly it is they do. It is an utter sickness for a man to sexually be with another man as he would be with a woman. It is harmful to the person's own soul who commits these indecent acts, and it is harmful to the community around him. Homosexuality is moral corruption and wickedness. The fact that some of you who have posted here have accepted the flow of this current society's gradual acceptance of what is perverse, and not only accept it but then vehemently defend it, shows that you have lost your way, not just a little, but exceedingly. Wake up. Being gay is not acceptable, good or normal. It is wrong. Man was never intended to be like this. It is a mark of the degeneracy of a society. This is a warning from God. God has given men over to their own lusts. Heed the warning!

I understand that after words like this, some immediately think, "that's hate speech", '"that's not tolerant", "that's ignorance", "that's not progressive". You think this because that is what you've been taught to think about such contrary opinions. But I say, think for yourselves. They don't own you. If you know in your heart it's wrong, don't buy their lie. Our consciences tell us it's wrong. We innately know it's wrong because we were made in the image of God and not meant to run around like animals in heat. There is great societal pressure to conform. We're taught, "everything is ok so long as it's not harmful and it's between two consenting adults." This is not true. Not in the eyes of God. Truth is not relative. God's Word is true, and he says it's an abomination. Furthermore, I tell you the acts and lifestyle's we lead affect everyone around us. Honestly ask yourself, when you think of what you want for your son, is it your hope and dream that your son has sex with another man when he grows up? No, that's sick. It's wrong. Then why is it acceptable for the man next door to be gay? Is that a great role model for your children? Come to your senses. Wake up, people! How could you think gay is ok?

"You are a homophobe", some may say. Again, this is a quaint little saying developed to put those who think contrary to them on the defensive. I do not fear homosexuals. I do not fear men who can only destroy the body, but I fear God, who after destroying the body, can destroy the soul in hell. Perhaps we should ask, are you a Christophobe? Do you hate Christians because they follow Christ? Do you even know who Christ is? Christ died to save people from their sins. He wants to save you from the depravity of your heart, and how much clearer is depravity demonstrated than in committing indecent acts with other men?

I know that a lot of gay people were made that way by older gay men who preyed upon them when they were younger. This is a travesty. You may not want to be gay. You may feel you are stuck. There is a way out. Jesus is the Savior. He is the Redeemer. He can forgive your sins, heal you and cleanse you from all sin. He can make you pure and whole again.

This is what America needs, this is what the world needs. We need to be saved from our sins. Jesus is the Savior, and he's coming again. When he comes again as king of heaven and earth, it will be well with you if you believe in him. But if you refuse his tender mercies, and spit on his sacrifice for you, what sacrifice is left? You will yet be under the condemnation of your sins, with no recourse. Believe in him today. He is only a prayer away.

"You think this because that is what you've been taught to think ... "

Generally, no. We think this because it's what we think. Wingnuts are the ones who are *taught* to think a certain way, only it isn't thinking. It's just parroting.

John3:16 - Do you disapprove of gay people because they are gay or do you hate the way they make your loins tingle at the site of a sweet ass in a pair of rainbow colored booty shorts?

It OK...you can tell me, I watch Law & Order.

BTW, We have reviewed your internet history and found www.meatspin.com scattered throughout your browser history.

Everything in moderation - including religion.

How are the people hiring you knowing whether you are gay or not if you are not "pronouncing it to everyone"

Or maybe you are "swishing" when you walk, or "lisping" when you talk. If you wouldn't say anything about your sexuality, they would never know you are gay. But you just can't shut up. You always ram it into everyone's faces. I don't tell people where I work what my husband and I do in bed. No one wants to hear it. So why do you gays think that everyone wants to hear what you do behind closed doors.

And for the gays who say they were "born that way", God gives us FREE WILL. So apparently it is by YOUR OWN FREE WILL that you are gay.

It's sort of like a straight person cheating on their spouse saying "I was born to cheat on you" No. It is free will.

Discriminating against someone because of a disability or the color of their skin, is wrong. Discriminating against someone because what they choose to do and how they choose to act is really not discrimination at all.

It is called employment at will. A boss can fire you because he doesn't like the color of your eyes. I was fired because I looked like my bosses ex-wife. Yes, it doesn't seem right, but it's not illegal. I couldn't help the fact that I look a certain way. But there are no laws to protect against THAT.

Arkansas is an "at will" state where you can fire people for danged near anything, except sex, race, handicap, etc, but given that good employees are hard to find and expensive to train, we don't get rid of many without good cause.

I am certain we have gay employees now, though none so open as in the past, but that is a matter of day to day turnover and the fact that we don't delve too far into afterhour activities and relationships.

What I am concerned about is that a gay employee might engage in offensive, flamboyant, flaunting behavior in the workplace that makes other employees and customers uncomfortable. I have no qualms about dismissing an employee who is disruptive to the workplace, but once that employee is in a "protected class" it about quadruples the chance of ending up in court after a dismissal no matter how valid.

Dear John314159...

I don't believe in God. Do you have any reasoned arguments to make? All you've done so far is write five paragraphs of eloquent, meaningless crap.

To both you and Christianlady, I'd like to say this:

F*ckin's good. Hell, f*ckin's better than prayer, 'cause it delivers much more reliably.

I'm in favor of people doing as much f*ckin' as they can, however they care to do it, within the ethical norms that cover all activities--no rape, no taking advantage of children. You two should give it a try.

In fact--Max, do you think you could hook those two up?

Mr. Jeff, you say,

"Yes I know that humans have more complex feelings and emotions that animals do not...."

As best I can determine, your point is that humans have more complex feelings and emotions than animals do.

I would like to think that, but after reading this thread, and the garbage spewed out here by many humans (at least, I assume those blogging here are humans), I have my doubts.

Well, perhaps the feelings and emotions are more complex, though I could cite you many cases of animals that seem more deeply feeling and humane than many humans I know.

But one thing I'm convinced of when I read "logical" analyses such as yours or "religious" ones such as John 3:16's or Christianlady's: humans do not necessarily have more complex minds and thoughts than animals have.

Unbelievable! Berry just voted against legislation that would have protected one of his own family members. He has a great-nephew that is openly gay and lives in his district. I guess when it comes to saving his own political career, he really would sell one of his family down the river to stay in office. Shameful.

Any side of this issue you are on you really have to be impressed with the ability of such a small minority to enforce its will on the majority.

If you look back to 2003 you had Gay.com touting the new study Socialist leaning Progressive Canada was planning for Canada's Gay population. To garner the kind of support they were truely deserving of, the government was going give voice and get an accurate count. There was always the number of 10% of the popluation floated as the number for GBLT, but Canada felt it had to be higher, and wanted to prove it. The gay community was thrilled.

Opps!! The Canadian Community Health Survey found the numbers to 10% of the 10% claimed by the gay community. 1.3% of males and .7% of females. (.6% of females identified as bi-sexual - read that as the girls boyfriend had a nice two-some) Now anyway, back to my point, so now all the sudden this much anticiapted study shows the numbers that are more reflective of actual society, and the gay community goes nuts, trying everything they can to distance and detract from the study they were only too proud and anxious to be delivered. Fact is the real numbers are tiny, in a big city of course they can go up to as much as 2.3 % (again, CCHS study), but very very small over all.

So, that such a small faction of society can oppose its will on a majority, by hook or crook, intimidation and threat of lawsuit is eye opening.

It is a truely sad state for our country and our constitution the government the founders tried so hard to keep from being centralised continues to expand at the cost of the individual rights they tried to protect.

The deviants are calling the shots folks. Why are the pedophiles, the necrophiles and the beastophiles excluded from this generous "protection bill?" Imagine calling a transgendered normal -- these people are the genitally mutilated crowd on sex steriods. What manner of lunacy is this?
If you want to see some nice shots of a "gay" parade check out San Fransicko where NAMBLA members participate.

"Opps," justwondering. I wasn't aware that being accorded basic human rights depended on one's numerical status in the population.

On that basis, we'd not have chosen to desegregate and end legal oppression of African-Americans.

On that basis, we could argue that the Nazis were just doing the right thing by eradicating the Jewish population of middle Europe in the mid-20th century, since Jews were in a minority.

When the rights of a minority are abridged, ignored, and trampled on, then the rights of everyone suffer.

In fact, your argument doesn't hold water in any case (as Sbaker's doesn't), given that a clear majority of Americans--substantially more than 50%--support the protection of gay rights for gay and lesbian citizens--as does the vast majority in the democratic nations of the world.

Sbaker, if you want to see a "non-gay" parade featuring heterosexual hijinks in all varieties, you have only to drive down to New Orleans at Mardi Gras during Carnival. For that matter, I believe you can see any manner of deviant straight sexual behavior on the internet. It's just a click away. Gays and lesbians have hardly cornered the market on deviancy, methinks.

Correction to previous posting: Everyone suffers.

Even the arguments of John316 and Christianlady are based upon the premise that homosexuality is a choice. I wonder if, when science has proven that it is not a choice but a genetic condition, those people will change their minds... Oh. I forgot, science is only an opinion. And the earth is only 6000 years old.
As much as J316 is convinced that "a lot of gay people were made that way by older gay men who preyed upon them when they were younger", I am quite certain that a lot, if not all, of these people who are so vociferous in proclaiming homosexuality a choice and denouncing it as evil are having a hard time battling their own inner gay demons. Examples of this, involving high profile people, are all over the news archives. Can you say Larry Craig? I think I have at least as much justification for my belief as they do for theirs. And that opinion is that gay people have no more "choice" about being gay than white people do about being white or black people do about being black. A duck can pretend to be an elephant - but isn't that a lie? And aren't there rules in the "Good Book" against lying too? Let's not pretend that EVERYBODY doesn't pick which of those rules they choose to obey and which they choose to overlook. Everybody.

Good point, RickBaber.

I'm also struck by the disparity between John 3:16's username and the biblical verse (s)he has chosen for a username.

Years and years of Sunday school have burned that verse into my mind. It's used by many evangelicals as THE banner verse to sum up the meaning of the whole gospel.

If memory serves me, it reads, "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son to redeem the world. God sent not his Son into the world not to condemn the world, but to save it."

I don't hear much love in John 3:16's "good news" message. I do hear a lot of condemnation.

I don't find the word "love" a single time in John 3:16's message.

Is it any wonder that increasing numbers of people are turning away from churches that purport to preach good news but that actually foster the opposite--hatred and condemnation of those who are different?

Correction: "God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world...."

Basic Human Rights? Muddling - stay on target. When is a right to hire/fire a basic human right?
Hate to put you back on track like that, cute tactic, stay on target, don't go throw some PC rhetoric and hide behind it.

And if you want to know what the majority of the people in the county believe, not some straw poll that will bolster your ego, look to the statewide election results from around the country. From Michigan to California, every proposition for gay marriage... what happened? Hardly the bible belt there, and still....

point is, small group, a lot of power. Wouldnt you agree?

It's easy to see why there have been periods in history where Christians have been oppressed.. They are demanding (like many Islamics in other parts of the world today) that their myth bears the only truth which must be honored above all facts or other myths. When certain mythical truths don't fit... well it's ok...just live a life fillled with guilt and begging for forgiveness.. which might be fine if you stole a candy bar from the corner drug store but when you deny love and affection in any consensual form.. you are not being spiritually whole, imo. The challenge is how to love more, not less.

If homosexuals had not been beaten even killed for thousands of years..much less denied employment, ability to live with and love their partners or help raise their young family members or visit loved ones while in the hospital... we wouldn't need to single them out with legal assurances that society will no longer sit by and allow such oppression.. Most of the "oh no! Think of the lawsuits!" people just don't want to give up their bigotry.. I read the Bible a few times many years ago and I must say it amazes me how many people who embrace it are so willing to do it the least justice... many of you folks do the bible you hold so dear the least justice... Perhaps you should put the book down for a while and learn to embrace all of God's creations... especially the parts you don't understand or cannot explain in a few pages.. The book (any book) itself wont get you there its what you do with the world you live that matters.

<<<<<<<<<
per·verse (pr-vûrs, pûrvûrs)
adj.
1. Directed away from what is right or good; perverted.
2. Obstinately persisting in an error or fault; wrongly self-willed or stubborn.
3.
a. Marked by a disposition to oppose and contradict.
b. Arising from such a disposition.
4. Cranky; peevish.
<<<<<<<<<

I think a lot of christians here fit number 2, 3 and 4 (75 percent of the definition) while crying out about their connection of homosexuality and number 1.

Equating deviant sexual behavior to ethnicity is a cheapshot and very degrading to those ethnic groups that are used to justify homosexual behavior. The myriad of my black friends universally find this very offensive to be compared to a disgusting choice of deviancy.

It is curious that not a single poster has not brought up the CDC based facts on the average lifespan of male homosexuals which is on par with IV drug users; about 47 years, and the huge cost to healthcare all because of a behavior.

I note also, several that oppose homosexual behavior are called names like homophobe, nazis etc. I have known a couple of homophobes, not just people that find the behavior disgusting, but real homophobes. Both were molested as boys by adult homosexuals and both were molested in the bay area of San Fransicko. The truth is that homophobes were the victims of rape by homosexuals.

Yet more stupidity from our elected officials pandering to special-interest groups.

Unlike racial/gender profiling, how in the WORLD can you discriminate against an employee for their sexual orientation?

Unless, of course, homosexuals are willing to admit that they LOOK gay -- that they are NOT like everyone else. I don't talk about my sexuality or make sexually-related comments or innuendo at work (primarily because I, white heterosexual male, would be sued for sexual harrassment whether or not my comments were directed to another person).

So, gays want to flaunt their sexuality in other people's faces and not face backlash? And, how do you prove this discrimination in a court of law short of the employer stating in front of others or recording on paper, "You are dismissed because you are gay."? What's next? Homosexual Affirmative Action? Are we going to start putting our sexual preferences on employment applications?

Such absolute stupidity. These congressional reps need to be fired for wasting the country's time with this nonsense.

TR

this is the USA, and I suppose if you want to have a particular orientation, then you are welcome to it. Our troops fight for our individuality. However, as an employer, if I dont want to hire a gay person, the last thing in the world I am going to do is tell them why. So that being said, they can have whatever kind of law they want on their side. I also have the freedom to not hire them, just as they have the freedom to complain about it. God forgives all things, and they can take it up with him at the end.

The blog didn't properly identify my post with my name. The post signed "TR" is Texreiver's - not Sbaker's.

TR

I see what it did.

Arkansas blog, maybe you should think about changing the format. Putting the poster's ID below the line demarcating their post can lead a reader to believe the ID at the top of the next post is that next poster's ID.

Very confusing. I think my ID should be at the top right of my post, below the line demarcating the post above, or directly underneath my post, as a sig line, above the line demarcating my post from the next.

Just a suggestion.

TR

Trust me, Texreiver, whatever nickname you sign your post with doesn't matter. I can see from here you believe everything about you should be at the top of something. All we need is to demarcate you as a hater.

I wish homosexuality was a choice. After reading this thread, if I could, I'd bear down real hard and make myself gay. I'd actually make myself a pregnant black lesbian and then I'd have all the bases covered. The arrogance and ignorance and intolerance on display on just this one thread is enough to doom this world to disaster. No supreme being can save us. And any supreme being with followers like this should be waterboarded if not executed as soon as possible. I sit in my boxers in stunned amazement that this is 2007 and these haters exist.

Could it be that super Bible-beaters actually spend more of their day imagining what 2 men might be doing in bed than any gay man? I almost never think of it. I like Max...but I don't think I've ever once thought of him and his wife in bed....oops......OK....it's over now. Thanks a million...... If my neighbor chooses to push a hairdryer up his ass....why do I care? If one of your snakes bites you during your nightly devotional....why would I care? If you want to twist your children into knots with all kinds of loony religious rants.....why would I care? You're the one who will die alone and lonely....snot me.

And if you fear homosexuals so much...where is God's saving grace and spiritual strength all of you are supposed to get with your Kingdom of Heaven admission ticket? Is no, by your own words, the Bible God's armor? If it is so, why do you fear anyone? You all sound more like God's Pussy Squad.

Starve those gays and we won't have to worry about them lusting after our ignorant, backwards looking flesh! That's really would you'd like to see happen. And after the gays are gone you'll start snuffing Mexicans, then liberals, then Catholics....no one really likes them anyway, ya know.

Damn! I'm bearing down real real hard...and I'm still thinking about big boobs. Maybe it's harder for a straight person to make themselves gay than it is for a camel to penetrate the eye of a needle? Well...a pox on haters, there were gays before there were churches and so it will be until the end of time. Amen

Homosexuality is a mental disease. Period. It is generally attributed to low IQ and poor self-esteem and can only be cured by aggressive societal condemnation. The immense sense of guilt that homosexuals attempt to convey upon the general heterosexual population for their perverted thoughts and actions has only been rewarded by the forced acceptance of this horrendous disease. The minuscule percentage of those hosting this sickness have been dangerously encouraged by a perverse counter-cultural agenda driven by those in high places with similar mental disabilities. Child pornography and pedophilia are simply evolved forms of homosexuality, and bestiality is now slowly gaining acceptance among the demented few. What next? I'm afraid to ponder.....

Ancient Rome tolerated homosexuals to the point that this loving group was permitted to own, sell, and use young boys for all manner of tolerant behavior. The boys were given a conditional name and called catamites all in the name of tolerance. It appears we are headed down this same road only now the homosexuals have taken to name calling for all that fail to accept, embrace, and exalt said behavior. The pedophilic part is still in the closet but soon to be more recognized as the level of tolerance rackets up to the next notch. Access to kids is what male homosexuals are obsessed with and the proof exists for those that have attacked the Boy Scouts and those that infiltrated the Catholic church to molest altar boys. At one time the International organization of homosexuals promoted their pedophilc behavior by belonging to NAMBLA--since losing popularity most now attempt to distance themselves from their once beloved organization. There is now an odd alliance (excluding the GLBTP alliance) that has formed between homosexuals, the ACLU, and Muslims in their never-ending hatred of Christians.

An eminently reasonable and thoughtful post, Deathbyinches.

And, unfortunately, reason and thought only glance off the "minds" of those to whom you're responding. These are good ole white boys bent on assuring rights only for themselves--like the basic human right to find work and have job security despite innate characteristics such as skin color, gender, and sexual orientation.

Let one of them be fired solely for being a white male (or perhaps being stupid or offensive), and see what hollering would ensue.

Isn't it amazing, too, how their "reasoning" undercuts the reasoning of their mates, even as they prattle on. Justwondering calls the quest for job security (which every human being wants--hiring and firing on the basis of qualifications, not inborn traits that have nothing to do with work ability--) a PC rhetorical trick, and then along comes bigdog saying he'll never hire a gay person. (Hmm. Wonder how he will assure he knows if someone is gay or not. Ask Larry Craig? Get out his minister-designed gaydar device and see if it dings in the job interview?)

Sbaker spews out ludicrous "CDC based facts" about the lifespan of gay men and homosexual rape as the cause of homophobia. Interesting, isn't it, that he doesn't feel obliged to cite his sources for those well-known facts? (Don't you reckon it's because he CAN'T cite any such facts?)

You say, "Could it be that super Bible-beaters actually spend more of their day imagining what 2 men might be doing in bed than any gay man? I almost never think of it. I like Max...but I don't think I've ever once thought of him and his wife in bed....oops......OK....it's over now."

Absolutely so. Isn't it fascinating how these ostensibly straight men go right to the bedroom when they "thing about" homosexuality? A fact they might consider is the now well-proven psychiatric finding that homophobic men tend to score higher on scales of erotic attraction to other men than do straight men who find gay men non-threatening. For one among many summaries of the research that has proven this, see http://www.psych.org/pnews/96-09-20/phobia.html.

These fellows claim to be worried that gay marriage will undermine their heterosexual marriages. I would propose that their wives be very worried, instead, about why their men are so intent on engaging in lurid fantasies about what they imagine two men do in bed. A word to the wise for wives of homophobic men: next time you can't find your husband, check out the nearest airport restroom or rest-area restroom.

Deathbyinches, I also agree with your observation that "[t]he arrogance and ignorance and intolerance on display on just this one thread is enough to doom this world to disaster."

Makes me think of Gandhi when he says," I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Or Nietzsche when he observes, "Christianity, I have been told all my life, is the religion of salvation. But I know my Christians well, and they don't look saved."

If the gay-bashers on this thread represent the true face of Christianity, is it any wonder that many thinking people choose to separate from churches that preach love and salvation but practice hatred and violence?

You can look up the CDC facts for yourself. Think AIDS et al. Interesting view on "homophobes" since anyone objecting to being robbed, raped, beat up, is really "phobic." The ridiculous notion that anyone that doesn't doesn't embrace an unhealthy deviant lifestyle actually desires said lifestyle. Does this same logic apply to women that are raped, children molested, beat-up, or robbed? By your logic they all want to experience those vile acts. How stupid do you think people are? LOL! Some of us don't buy the marketing of deviance even if it comes from hollywood. Get over it. True homophobia = kids molested by homosexuals.

Lumberjack, is there not a library in your forest? Or do you not have internet access to do some research about the issue of sexual orientation and mental illness?

In case you lack such resources, please allow me to educate you. The following is from the website of the American Psychiatric Association (APA), the central and highly-respected accrediting body for all bona fide psychiatrists, psychologists, and therapists:

"Is Homosexuality a Mental Illness or Emotional Problem?

No. Psychologists, psychiatrists and other mental health professionals agree that homosexuality is not an illness, mental disorder or an emotional problem. Over 35 years of objective, well-designed scientific research has shown that homosexuality, in and itself,is not associated with mental disorders or emotional or social problems. Homosexuality was once thought to be a mental illness because mental health professionals and society had biased information. In the past the studies of gay, lesbian and bisexual people involved only those in therapy, thus biasing the resulting conclusions. When researchers examined data about these people who were not in therapy, the idea that homosexuality was a mental illness was quickly found to be untrue.

In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association confirmed the importance of the new, better designed research and removed homosexuality from the official manual that lists mental and emotional disorders. Two years later, the American Psychological Association passed a resolution supporting the removal. For more than 25 years, both associations have urged all mental health professionals to help dispel the stigma of mental illness that some people still associate with homosexual orientation."

You certainly have the right to believe the moon is made of green cheese, if you wish, or that the earth is flat. But please don't ask that a reality-based pluralistic society adhere to your peculiar, unfounded notions of truth and falsehood.

That's the path societies such as Rome took as they fell--imposing the "truth" of a social elite on everyone else, removing people's civil liberties, substituting bread and circuses for open, reasoned political discussion in the public forum, pitting rich against poor (so that the latter could be more easily exploited by the former). I hope we will choose another path for our future--one in which the justice for all promised in our foundational documents actually finds expression in our culture and practices.

It is not hard to pick out who's a homo and who's not on here.
You that are better say all you gonna say because there'll be a day when all mouth's will be stopped. That is your's.
READ ROMANS THE FIRST CHAPTER WHAT THE APOSTLE PAUL SAID ABOUT YOU HOMO'S.
PAUL WILL BE THE JUDGE, IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW IT.

Thanks, Sbaker, but since you cited those CDC "facts," I expect you to point me to them. Otherwise, I must tell you I don't feel very convinced by your argument. I'm persuaded by facts, not opinions, particularly when the latter are based on lack of knowledge (that is, ignorance) and prejudice.

You ask, "How stupid do you think people are?" Weeell, after reading this thread....When people cite "facts" and then can't provide a source for them, I tend to look at stupidity as a possible explanation for their behavior. I tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt, otherwise, and I allow them to persuade me if they can point me to a rational basis for their beliefs. Otherwise, I tend to follow my parents' constant advice not to jump off the bridge just because everyone else does so.

Facts: the following is from the website of the American Psychiatric Association (APA), the premier accreditation body for psychiatrists, psychologists, and therapists:

"Can Lesbians, Gay Men, and Bisexuals Be Good Parents?

Yes. Studies comparing groups of children raised by homosexual and by heterosexual parents find no developmental differences between the two groups of children in four critical areas: their intelligence, psychological adjustment, social adjustment, and popularity with friends. It is also important to realize that a parent's sexual orientation does not dictate his or her children's.

Another myth about homosexuality is the mistaken belief that gay men have more of a tendency than heterosexual men to sexually molest children. There is no evidence to suggest that homosexuals are more likely than heterosexuals to molest children."

Facts: the following is from the website of CCR, Coordinated Community Response on Sexual Assault:
"The vast majority of those who perpetrate sexual assault are heterosexual males. 84% of those who perpetrate are male (Finkelhor, 1984). 83% of child molesters are heterosexual while the remaining 17% are bisexual (Groth, 1979). It is also possible for gay men to be assaulted by their partners."

Since you have challenged me to look up those CDC "facts" you're citing, I hope you'll do some research and see how credible Finkelhor and Groth are as researchers.

chasv-

Paul will be the judge? I thought God was the judge?

And really, why do you people get a boner at the thought of someone that disagrees with you burning for eternity? Very Christ-like.

While I'm at it...as much as I would like to sift through biblical interpretation to prove to all of you who say that the Bible condemns homosexuality, President Bartlett beat me to it.

President Josiah Bartlet: Good. I like your show. I like how you call homosexuality an abomination.
Dr. Jenna Jacobs: I don't say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.
President Josiah Bartlet: Yes it does. Leviticus.
Dr. Jenna Jacobs: 18:22.
President Josiah Bartlet: Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I have you here. I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be? While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff Leo McGarry insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police? Here's one that's really important because we've got a lot of sports fans in this town: touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you? One last thing: while you may be mistaking this for your monthly meeting of the Ignorant Tight-Ass Club, in this building, when the President stands, nobody sits.

So am I a "homo", chasv?

Is there some way that I type that indicates whether or not I am gay?

Or am I just one of many, many people in our country that stresses tolerance and equal rights for all?

So...which is it?

The amount of "Christian" hate speech on this thread is disgusting. If y'all are what passes for Christianity, sign me up for the athiest newsletter.

"I sit in my boxers in stunned amazement that this is 2007 and these haters exist."

I do, too. To state it as delicately as I know how (and certainly not as eloquently as MuddlingThrough would), I've never smelled or seen shit so disgustingly slimy as some of these postings. There is none so blind as s(he) who won't see. I'm out of here. Can't take any more of this stuff. Sorry I ever got started on this thread.

OK I would really like to know where I said in my post that sex was ONLY for marriage but yet agan the irrational homos and their supporters read into more than what was actually said.so many times I hear homos saying "We are normal...born this way....no different than anyne else" but thats not true and I defy anyone to prove me wrong with SCIENCE.I was only pointing out that our species sexual function is heterosexual at the basic scientific level,but people like chidochuck want to go off on a rant about marraige and that sex was ONLY for having kids.......I did not.If I am wrong then please highlight the statement and post it in a response but you wont find it because it wasnt said.And to the person mentioning Mary Cheny and her partner having a child.....it wasnt produced by them being sexual with each other,it was produced by a doctor taking a MALES sperm into a FEMALES egg and fertilizing it,so lets please not equate ARTIFICIAL insemination with NATURAL/NORMAL reproduction.
And to those that want to equate religious people saying homosexuality is wrong as being "haters" maybe you should check the bible more thoroughly.Yes its true Jesus said not to judge lest you be judged but he also talked about not commiting sexual immorality alot and thats clearly defined thorughout the bible as well.

also another thing about Jesus teachings were that all those things that are considered unclean/sin/wrong?abominations are still wrong and should be pointed out as such. but when he said he who is without sin cast the first stone meant that while it was still sin that we should act with mercy instead of wrath.I know that some claiming to be Christians act and say ugly things and I hate that some forget that when pointing out sin to the world that Christians are to be "softspoken and loving and patient". To often though the irrational homos and their supporters act the same way...ranting about not having enough fun in the bedroom or some crap like that instead of admiting they have nothing to counter with but insults and rants.

Shaker puked out:
"Imagine calling a transgendered normal -- these people are the genitally mutilated crowd on sex steriods. What manner of lunacy is this?"

Typical reich wing talking points from the Phelps Crime Family, TVC, Wildmon Gang (American Family Association), yada, yada, yada. Furthermore your remarks are that of a dumb ass, ignorant, redneck, neo-racist that can't get over blacks being in public schools, and playing collegiate sports (including the UA).

Lemme explain a couple of things...

Sex is between the legs, Gender is between the ears. Transgender people do not choose this, its no more chosen than someone who is redheaded, left handed, autistic, and yes homosexual.

So I guess Shaker its just okay that transsexuals are fired from their jobs, evicted from their apartments, and even killed for just being who they are and you don't give a shit, huh. I would even venture that you were symphonic to the lynching of blacks, kinda like that kid (Emmit Till) that whistled at the white lady named Bryant in Money, Mississippi back in 1955 and ended up dead in the river tied to a cotton-gin fan. Or Matthew Shepard in Wyoming being tied to a barbed wire fence and beaten until he died.

I've f***in' had it with bigots like yourself and gutless pols like Mike Ross, Marion Berry, and Dustin McDaniel. Count me in the Revolution when it happens and pray that you are not one of those I have to deal with later.

MuddlingThrough, as you muddle about in your self-induced confusion, you may want to clear your eyes and pay closer attention to those that you rely on for information. The American Psychiatric Association is funded by the homosexual mafia as it takes in an enormous amount of contributions from those that wish to manipulate the results of its "research". Obtaining your scientific "facts" regarding homosexuality from the APA is equivalent to understanding the earth's climate via Al Gore. Socialist agendas far outweigh responsible research and factual conclusions as one can easily ascertain after a visit to Columbia University, or any other brainwashing university throughout the United Sates for that matter.

Homosexuals are the lost souls among us that need help to cure their disease. What they don't need is an easy conveyance of their guilt upon society by way of encouragement of their sickness. As a responsibility to the preservation of our once virtuous society, we need to do our part to eradicate this disease and rebuild the moral character that has made us the greatest nation on earth.

mrjeff: "I know that some claiming to be Christians act and say ugly things and I hate that..."
mrjeff: "the irrational homos"

Typical "christian" hypocrisy.

Being Gay Is Just As Healthy As Being Straight:
http://www.psychologymatters.org/hooker.html

For razorback dem:

So man made the Bible and it has all kinds of contradictions. Yes. We know. But this is also about common sense.
Homosexuals say they do what they do because it makes them feel good, and they have rights. Ever wonder why ch