Arkansas Blog

Wait'll you get the sales tax bill when you go buy that new Chevy Malibu!

this would break the poor but not affect the super wealthy much. huck's supporters i would imagine are in the lower income bracket because of the church affiliation. they have not been explained this part of the tax plan. he will in his soft voice tell them that no it will be around 23 and they will hold up their arms and believe him and they will blindly follow him like the sheeple they are. watch for the glassy eyes when he speaks and you will see a true follower. he has tapped into the pat robertson crowd just gone further. he doesn't say the crazy stuff that pat used to say as much but this tax will get explained and examined a lot and may sink him soon. nobody likes the irs but nobody wants to pay a 50% sales tax either.

It is not pro-family to eliminate the deductions on (1) home mortgage interest (especially with the mortgage crisis upon us), (2) state income taxes and (3) charitable giving, all of which the Fair Tax will do.

I've noticed that Huckabee uses the Fair Tax talking points to redirect the question whenever asked to defend his tax and spend record.

To oppose the elimination of the sales tax on food and medicine in Arkansas and then become an advocate for a high national sales tax is, however, consistent.

After Huck is nominated, the Platform Committee will decide that they can't sell a flat tax idea that's sure to be poked full of holes. It sounds good, but they'll replace it with something more palatable after they have their candidate.

Meanwhile, the Huck can continue hawking those sound-good quotes about getting rid of the IRS and other references to tax-time perils and paperwork. Yep, sounds real good to hear those chest thumpers.

At this point, Huckysteria has been launched, and no right-winger cares to look at details. They will be convinced by the time they vote that Prophet Huck and his Rovian puppet-master, Rollins, will have all the problems ironed out.

Forget details. Knee-jerk voters have faith that details will be ironed out by somebody else.

In the final analysis, abortion will trump everything, just as it did before when right-wing voters didn't care if Bush was right or wrong on anything, just as long as he was right on abortion.

And the icing on their big cake will be that they're on the ticket that Jesus would vote for.

The icing looks like it's all sugar, but when people bite into that sweet-looking Jesus-cake, they'll find they've voted for inedible hot pepper that has no nutritional value.

Flat tax, flat earth. God sure did allow for a whole lot of stupid.

MC to all......by using an abbreviation......am I going to hell? It's fun to make fun of the flat tax or any other different idea of taxation, but I find it hard to cheer for the totally unfair, corrupt, and FK'ed up system we've had in effect since 1913. Finding out that hedge fund managers who make 300 million+ a year have bought themselves a top tax rate of 15%, while I'm paying 30% on peanuts was the last straw.

We pay taxes out the ass, rich people much less, big corporation next to nothing. Our government spends, not like a drunken sailor, but like the corrupt cash pig that it is. Our modern rule of governing, even in Arkansas (ala the giant surplus) is to first gather 100 times as much money as you need and then spend it like water, making sure it's your friend's garden you're watering.

I can understand how the non-corrupt, incompetent part of that equation works. I'm 52 and it takes me all day and night to balance my checkbook. Therefore, I don't.....hardly ever. So the best way I know to live is have no plan, dig up twice as much money as you need and then do whatever pleases you. I can do that.....I'm just a private person trying to find my way thru life.

But I couldn't get away doing that if I worked for Wal-Mart in the accounting department. They'd fire me in a week. And our government shouldn't be allowed to operate that way either. I find it rather hard to believe that our money system is based on anything. Our government is in charge of printing the money. I know they pretend to have all kinds of check and balances...but honestly....we operate year after year after decade after decade a trillion dollars in debt, our national checkbook so overdrawn I can't even count the zeros.

They tell us staying in the black and following all the rules, crossing T's and dotting I's is the American Way. Yet, our government soaks us to the hilt so they never have to worry about staying within a budget, or running out of money no matter how foolishly or corruptly they throw it away. Wanna know how bad it is in Iraq....click on my name. Then tell me how sacred is thy IRS, tell me a flat tax is crazier than what we have now. Thanks to Cheney-Bush, America is broken. Now is the time to revamp it all, try new ideas, remove as much of the corruption as possible, and make life and taxes less miserable for everyone. Click it and weep! MC, ya hear!

dbi,
Occasionally you make sense, but not this time. The bogus flat tax is just another cynical appeal to the voters who feel impotent about how to change government. California's Proposition 13, term limits, the Republican "contract," and now the flat tax were used to dupe voters who want to "send government a message." It did not matter what message or the consequences. Tell me, what is the difference between terrorists and those (Huck) who deceptively peddle destructive flat tax proposals?

It is like being on an ocean liner and being upset about a meal that was served or the port the ship was going to dock in. You decide to send a message by sinking the ship with yourself and everyone else still on it. Well they got a message, what what was it? Of course if you had read the cruise contract before you signed it, you could have spoken out for the right meal or the right destination with less disastrous results.

Ironically, it is the voters' apathy about how government works and sheer civic laziness that gets us into situations as we have today. A dictatorship is ideal for lazy citizens; the American political system, even when done well, requires actual thought and effort.

Oh, yes, we are too busy too keep up with government. However, we have plenty of time to be obsessed by the political machinations on "reality tv." News is too depressing, but we eagerly watch as scores of people are murdered every week in increasingly gruesome ways in our tv crime dramas.

The flat tax will not do away with the IRS -somebody will have to make sure that the tax is collected and not pocketed. Somebody will have to set up the definitions of what is going to be taxed. Before the ink is dry on such a tax method, those with money (who will benefit most already from the flat tax) will insert their own exemptions. Finally, the flat tax, as proposed, will bankrupt the country. If it is designed not to bankrupt the country, it would bankrupt you.

Well, you say that bankruptcy is avoidable if we just get rid of government waste. Who will be deciding what is government "waste?" The Halliburtons, not the voters watching celebrity survival shows.

Having heard from several math-challenged friends, I found the easiest way to explain the fraud is the following.

In the flat tax shell-game, people think that it is applied like the current sale tax method but it's not. If you buy a loaf of bread for $1 and the sales tax is 23%, you pay $1.23. The tax rate is only on the actual price of the bread.

This is how the flat tax scam hits you:

If you buy a house for (ouch!) $100,000, you will have to pay a tax of $30,000 (30%).

The cost of the house will be then $130,000.

Serpent-tongued Huck reassures us that the $30,000 is "only" a 23% tax. in reality, it is 23% of the actual price of the house PLUS the real 30% tax.

I'm not so much pushing for the flat tax, I'm just avoiding embracing the status quo. When people making 300 million a year can buy themselves a top tax bracket of 15%, while you and I pay double that, that's.....it's criminal. Max has spent all year talking about raising the taxes on the oil & gas companies sucking our resources out of the ground and no one dares make a move because we know the oil & gas companies will pass that tax on to the consumer. That is a broken tax system that has us by the balls. It's blackmail.

Plus add the thousands of layers of bureaucracy involved in our current system. I owned a business for years, the Arkansas DFA had no problem making sure I passed the taxes I collected on to them each month. Every business today has their tax reporting in place. Again....I'm not promoting a new plan, I'm promoting the idea that we find a new plan. A new plan that makes everyone pay their fair share. Man...if that ever happened and we could control spending, no one would fear tax day or taxes again.

I am opposed to any once a year hoop that everyone has to jump thru. I've seen too many people go thru heart-stopping misery because they got behind on their taxes. A lawyer friend of mine some years back got behind on his taxes and would vomit from fear when the subject came up. He should have known better...he should have dealt with it more maturely...he didn't. After 2 years of acting like The Fugitive, his problem was resolved and life became good again.

Same with property taxes. Recently in Fort Baptist, an old middle class couple lost their house to some savvy Baptists, simply because they got old and confused and didn't pay taxes on a house they'd lived in for 40 years. A once a year high hurtle is too much for some people. Life is short and hard....why make it harder, more complicated, scary? Merry Christmas....all cooking is hereby suspended until 9 am tomorrow morning.

Huckabee and Fairtax.org call for a 23% tax on virtually all purchases in place of federal income taxes, as well as payroll taxes to fund Social Security and Medicare.<< LAT

The Employer class is still attempting to get out of that 7.5% Social Security contribution.

Once all the preachers realize TAX-DEDUCTIBLE tithing will shrivel up to nothing the plan will be a joke even among fundies.

The Fair Tax Plan, like Huckabee, will be a total disaster. It will never be implemented. It would require repealing a Constitutional Amendment and that takes years. The Fair Tax is more Hucksizzle. Where's the steak?

"America is the Cayman Islands compared to Europe. Tax revenues consume more than 40% of GDP in Europe, much higher than the U.S. burden, which is less than 30%. Moreover, the U.S. Congress repeatedly decided, with few exceptions, not to tax the investment income of foreigners and not to report this income to foreign governments. And since European politicians are too greedy to cut taxes, European workers and investors are wise to invest their money in the United States."
Cato Institute

Now will the Hucksizzle Tax eliminate trillions in overseas investment or increase it"

"no one dares make a move because we know the oil & gas companies will pass that tax on to the consumer."

That is yet another tax lie that gets perpetuated by the greedy gas companies and the unknowing public. We are already paying for the natural gas severance taxes OF OTHER STATES. Again, another shell game. Most of the natural gas we use in Arkansas is from other states, while Arkansas gas is used out-of-state, at bargain basement rates. The Public Service Commission, Sheffield Nelson (formerly of ArkLa Gas), and and others have tried to counter the "pass on to the biscuit cooker" lie whenever the gas company lobbyists have brought it up. However, the lobbyists have been able to fool enough voters into writing scary letters to legislators to kill the severance tax efforts ...because the voters don't bother to find out the facts and their elected officials are too lazy.

As for DFA and Arkansas businesses - the flat tax would be a federal tax overseen by the Washington bureaucracy. The state taxes would remain the same, collected by the state. (Actually state taxes will have to be drastically raised to make up for the huge cuts in federal turnback after the flat tax is adopted.)

It's one thing getting behind in taxes under the current system. It will be worse trying to get IN FRONT of taxes in the flat tax system. You will need to pay the tax at the time of purchase. The credit card companies will reap a bigger windfall profit than ever before. Even more of your friends will be vomiting from financial fear.

Serpent-tongued Huck is counting on combining voters' ignorance, outrage, and feelings of helplessness into his campaign vehicle. He's done that with religion, foreign policy (or lack of), taxes, and government in general. His years in the pulpit have taught him that he does not have to provide real solutions, but just tap into fear and anger ... and smile.
JL

(As far as the property tax, we were able to get some homestead tax relief passed a few years ago.)

>"I am opposed to any once a year hoop that everyone has to jump thru."<

Under the flat tax scam, EVERY day will be tax day.

Perspective

When my relatives from Oregon first visited they made a trip to the Mall carrying a $10 bill. They brought two items to the counter that came to $9.90 and were livid when the clerk told them the total was $10.70.

I suspect everyone in line was quite entertained by the long argument they had about the scam being run by "the man"

Years went by before they quit talking about the "evil hidden Arkansas sales tax."

Jim,
in your outlining of the fallacies of Fair Tax I would add the number of black market industries that will inevitably arise. Roadside vendors will flourish because they can escape tendering Huck's 30% tax.
Likewise if services (carpentry, remodeling, carpet cleaning, house painting, lawyer fees, beauticians) are to be taxed I see mucho potential for cheating. So put away the myth of no IRS. Audit requirements will be the same or greater.

If such a scheme were ever to be implemented (which it won't) I could easily see numerous jewelry stores located in roadside RVs.
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