Arkansas Blog

I was born Catholic and indoctrinated into its whacko ways by my parents. Luckily I got myself an education and shook it off by my mid twenties. Frankly, I don't understand how anyone over about that age can be Catholic. It is crazy. It is realy scary craqzy. But I'll say this for them. They are so compliant. They are trained well. What their little monsignors say they all march in lock-step. Really sad they give up their brain at the church-step door.
I can say it because I've been there as a kid. As a kid being the operative phrase. Then I grew up. That way anyway.

To be fair it is not only the Catholics that I think are whack jobs. Pretty much insert any mainstream religion in its place and I would say the same.

My 6th grader (who attends a Catholic school) read the article and asked, "Don't they have bigger things to worry about? This is stupid." I can't imagine she will be the only one with that reaction.

What does it take for people to stand up to this and say, "No!"?

The Catholic Church's anti-condom-distribution in Africa is, according to the President of the Royal Society of Britain, responsible for the deaths of between 20-60 million people from AIDS.

That's conscious genocide, friends.

The Vatican's "health" spokesperson, Cardinal Trujillo, still LIES that latex condoms are pervious to the HIV virus. They are not.

In fact, latex condoms are the most affordable and effective weapon against the spread of ALL STD's. Not just AIDs.

But the Catholic Church must impose its increasingly ineffectual dogma on the masses, in the face of ever declining worldwide membership.

So must Monsignor Hebert support the anti-woman, anti-choice, paternilistic guys-in-gowns cult.

I don't appreciate being lied to by leaders of the Catholic Church.

The Church is supporting genocide on a massive scale beyond Hitler's or Stalin's or anybody's in history.

In the Name of God.

Look, Gang.

The billions-dollar Catholic pederasty scandal hasn't occurred anywhere else.

No Jews, no Methodists, no Muslims, no Hindus, no Scientologists.

Just Catholics.

They keep trying to censor what movies we can see, what TV shows we can watch, what stores we can shop, what books and newspapers we can read.

I'm not Catholic. I don't appreciate your imposing your religion on me.

I don't appreciate a five-MAN Catholic majority on the Supreme Court.

I don't appreciate your Religion trying to dictate my life.

Clear enough?

Right.

Isn't religion great!

"I don't appreciate a five-MAN Catholic majority on the Supreme Court"

Amen! Brother, amen!

Give them a break. A few years ago they did forgive Galileo for telling us the world wasn't flat.

This is evidently part of a new hard-line approach of the current pope. He's meddling in the political life of Italy and Spain. In Italy, the Vatican has just helped topple the center-left government by allying itself with a political leader who withdrew from the governing coalition because he and his wife had been charged for taking part in a money for favors scheme.

In both Italy and Spain, the Vatican has been organizing huge rallies to give the impression that it has growing influence over the political life of Europe. The pope is trying to resurrect anti-abortion sentiment in nations that legalized abortion decades ago. He's also aggressively attacking gay marriage and political policies that recognize the human rights of gay people.

Much of this has to do, I suspect, with the growing recognition that abortion can no longer be used as the centerpoint of an oppositional politics to rally the faithful. Even in the U.S., where Catholics have bought into this politics of opposition in a far bigger way than in Europe, the faithful are increasingly not listening when they're told to vote solely on the basis of whether a politician opposes abortion.

This leaves church leaders nervous. It means that the political landscape may be changing worldwide, and notably in the U.S., where the current federal government has shielded the pope and bishops in legal cases where they have been charged with conspiring to protect clerical sexual abusers. Catholic leaders desperately do not want their files to be opened up, to permit people to know how long they've been shielding sexual abusers in the priesthood, and how much money has been paid out over the years--money given by good Catholics. They do not want the files opened, because they will show the Vatican right at the center of the cover-up.

Desperate attempts to put the abortion issue back into play in the current presidential election are in evidence all over the U.S. today, in Catholic circles. One of the most conservative of American Catholic colleges, Belmont Abbey in North Carolina, has just "discovered" that its healthcare plan provided benefits for abortion, sterilization, and contraception.

Without consulting faculty and staff, the president and abbot who heads the monastery that owns the college unilaterally ended those benefits in December. Faculty are now threatening a lawsuit. The majority of faculty and staff at the college are not Catholic. The concern is primarily the college's attempt to force everyone, Catholic or otherwise, to adhere to Catholic teaching on birth control.

Simultaneously with this action, the college has set up a new right-wing think tank for students, lavishly funded by some of the most despicable right-wing political leaders in the nation. I suspect these same groups are helping to fund the mass demonstrations organized by the Vatican in Europe. This is all about a last-ditch effort of church leaders to convince people they are morally relevant, as they are losing political control all over the world.

Is it any wonder that the Pew report released yesterday shows about a third of American Catholics now refusing to identify as Catholics? If it weren't for immigration, the Catholic church would be dying on the vine in the U.S.

So, men of God, keep shaking your croziers and threatening. And we'll hope that the faithful will cringe in fear and obey--and keep that money pouring in!

I agree with the first comment. There's something wrong with a human in a man appointed position ordering other adults. Unless the congregation can hear an audible voice from above validating the the Catholic Diocese as "The Authority of God" then that organization is no more than an elected group of men exerting their power on those they have fooled.

Let the Catholic bashing commence. It is well deserved though IMO. How anyone with a daughter can support such an old fogey, white male misogynistic, superstitious, hocus pocus, "religion" is quite amazing to me.

Catholicism is as fundamentalist as any religion out there.

Catholics will get off on this though. They get off on the world against us, we're so persecuted because we're the one true holy and apostalic church, thing. They love it. And during lent, they'll eat this up. Like a station of the cross.

I could go on but I won't. It's too easy.

Amazing to me how anyone after a a certain age, maybe say 30 at the latest, can believe in a religion right off the shelf, like they have God in a box. It's a big world out there. And why don't more people acknowledge that what they believe is largely what they were indoctrinated into through family background or their own little corner of the world where they grew up.

Best thing i ever did was objectively look at being Catholic and resounding shake it off. When it became too small and goofy given what I knew about the world and common sense as i got older.

I remember listening to some pasty white priest talking to em and I just thought, "Oh my God, this guy is such a loser. This religion is so middle ages. These guys don't have a clue. Surely this can't be what God, if there is one at all, made all the fuss about. I mean, would you get up on a cross for these bozos?" If so Jesus was a sucker.

Again, though, I'm not much into any of them. Catholicism just happens to be the subject today.

And I never looked back.

We'll see if any Catholics have the balls to publicly challenge this affront to human reason. They are grown adults and are not allowed to voice any real dissent. That in and of itself is a fairly pathetic way to go through life. And they pass that on to their kids. That's the sad part.

It is a teachable moment for kids. But they will blow it. Because if you let in a little doubt, "uh oh" if they are wrong about this then what else might they be so very wrong about.

How many Catholic women that would normally run the race will not do it? Will they have the guts to stand up for what they might personally believe is the right thing to do?

Or will they let the old white, under-educated but overly indoctrinated pompous males in frilly gowns keep telling them how to think?

The ironies are rich in Msg. Hebert's decision. As someone above mentioned, the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life survey as reported on the front page of the NYT this morning shows that the Roman Catholic Church "has experienced the greatest net losses as a result of affiliation changes" of any religion in the United States. Keep up the trend monsignor/acting bishop and there will be a Catholic Church USA [as there probably should be given the hollow hierarchical European church leadership.]
Another irony particular to Little Rock is the fact that the Church is doing in 2008, what it did throughout the 40's and 50's in keeping Catholic laymen out of and thereby preventing creation of the National Conference of Christians and Jews in Arkansas. The reason; one of the major supporters of an NCCJ presence was the reform rabbi in Little Rock who was also a founder of Community Chest, the forerunner of United Way, which also supported Planned Parenthood. Idle speculation, but one wonders what the Central High Crisis might have been like [or not like] had a powerful NCCJ board existed in this city in 1957.
So here we are nearly 70 years later, and the Roman Catholic leadership [and that is the hang up, not the dwindling rank and file] is still standing in the way of building community because it can't get beyond the fetus.

No big shocker here: this fine organization brought us the Crusades, the Inquisistion, domination, enslavement and genocide in the New World, anti-science, anti-woman, anti-gay (unless there's a compliant altar boy),anti-Jew, and on and on and on.

What's astounding is that their fairy tales still hold sway over so many minds. Pathetic.

If the Church were so concerned about life...what about the lives they destroyed and continue to destroy as they for centuries moved their pedophiles from one parish to the other. Sure, those lives are still breathing and living, but will they ever trust again? Their innocence was taken from them and whom they would have been was destroyed by the very Church they trusted.

It is called aiding and abetting - the entire hierarchy of the Catholic Church should be in jail. Instead they send edicts down from their tainted perches demanding those that care about their Mothers, Grandmothers, Aunts and Cousins who may have or will be stricken by Breast Cancer that they can't support one of the most important movements for that cause. They continue their criminality. Praise the Lord.

Since the Catholic Church thinks everyone affiliated with The Race for The Cure is also
Pro Choice.
And, since Catholic Priests have been associated with pedolliphia, I can reasonably assume, all Catholic priests are pedophiles.

Bit they know all they have to do is go to confession, say a few Hail Mary's, maybe an act of contrition, pop the Jesus wafer in their mouth dutifully every Sunday, and the slate is wiped clean. All is brand sparkling new again. It's quite a system. Works well at keeping the whole twisted soul defying system humming along on cruise control, and oh yeah, mind control.

Not all Catholic priests are pedophiles. Let's be fair. Some are just asexual, momma's boys and drunks. (Actually, to be fair, I will say that some Jesuits I have known (not all) are some amazing people and largely do not believe any of the folly. Still, why they remain on board in that religious capacity makes them an oddity to me also. I've had the privilege of a Jesuit education and I think I'm the better for it. I would not trade it. They do not lead you to what what to think ( as opposed to every other type of Catholic school) but to think period. Rigorous, grounded for the most part. They are the best educated of the Catholic lot and they have a fierce independent streak.

Look, here is a red flag. If you aspire to a profession that you have to wear a cossack for, well, you might want to hit a few years of therapy first. And if your religion thinks that the overall number one qualification for ordained leadership is having a penis then you might want to think that one through a little more.

What's funny is that every October morn of the race, Monsignor Marczuk always stands on the steps of the Cathedral of Saint Andrew to cheer on the trotting masses. I guess he'll be out there watching for wayward members of his flock in the race this year.

Wearing a cossack?

I meant cassack.

From the Catholic dictionary:

Cassack: (noun). The black, flowy, robe-like, effeminate, buttoned up "monsignorish" garb worn by Priests as they run about the Parish on Sundays. Suitable for hiding very young altar boys underneath.

Every non-Catholic woman in the Little Rock Race for the Cure should go out and sign up 10 new participants to take part in the 2008 Race. Doubling the size of the race would show the old bishop how the cow ate the cabbage.

I suspect most Arkansas Catholics are very disappointed with their church on this issue. I suspect many of the priests are also very disappointed with the diocesan administrator as well, although they cannot say so publicly. Sometimes the church loses focus on the big picture and makes incredibly stupid decisions. While church law may be consistent with this ruling, it seems like the leadership sometimes cannot see the forest for the trees.

Maybe Catholic High should eliminate its track program to prevent boys from running, too. I hear overheating the cods will cause them to be sterile and thus eliminate reproduction as their motivation for copulation.

it is ironic that this came out from Pew today. From today's Wall St. Journal:

Nearly half of adults in the U.S. have switched to a faith other than the one in which they were raised or have dropped affiliation with any organized religion, according to a large survey by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.

The study also found that one-third of respondents who were raised Roman Catholic had left the faith as adults. Yet, the overall number of Catholics in the U.S. has remained steady -- about 25% of adults -- buttressed by a wave of Catholic Latino immigration, Pew says.

Damn. You'd think JFK was running for president again, what with all the Catholic stereotypes flying around. Who tells Catholics how to vote? "Their king in the pointy hat, what sits on his throne in Rome." I was educated by the Jesuits as well. Very cool people. Some Catholics are douche bags too, no different than the Baptists, Methodists, Muslims, Jews, etc. For the record, I'm not a Catholic. I'm an atheist - just like every other kid that went to Catholic school.

For some perspective, there is the Church, and then there is the church. The Pope and (esp. US) bishops are to (thinking) parishioners as Bush Lite is to (thinking) citizens. mapg's 6th grader got it JUST right! THIS sort of nonsense is precisely what is causing the shortage of priests and the disaffection of "younger" Catholics. Let's not paint ALL "believers" with a broad brush. The "leadership" of the Catholic Church is just as prone to distancing from those they supposedly serve as POLITICIANS everywhere!!! The primary difference is they wear uniforms. AND the current Pope was (is?) a Nazi, just like Huck's mentor...

There is some nasty commentary here that would fit right in about 80 years ago - surely the posters aren't THAT old... AND as usual, there is plenty of criticism that is "fair & balanced." As a wise Nun once told my wife (who was facing a dilemma similar to this [AND I can assure you that SHE will continue to walk in RftC]): "There is (our parish) church right here, and then there is the Pope and the Bishops over there. What you are contemplating is an act of love and charity."

The moment I read the good monsignor's imperative, I was set to snort and snicker and tell all you fine folks just watch how many "good" Catholic ladies would follow his rule. Those I know? Not a one. Just like they go their own way regarding birth control and sterilization, especially when all else fails and baby number three arrives.
But the level of animosity I see in some of the comments stuns me. Takes me back to the Baptist church of my childhood and the shouted from the pulpit, "God will destroy the Catholic church and all who believe in it!" (Jewish folks took a pretty good hit, too. We had to boycott all those Jewish owned stores on Main Street because they killed Jesus. Think about it. You could buy clothes at Penney's, but where did you buy an engagement ring around here back then?)
When that preacher was around, I was just old enough to start questioning and that did it for me on religion -- eventually all religion. Don't get me started on the big box church down the road.
I hope my rants are not quite as mean spirited as some on this thread have been. I hope I can shrug off, at least most of the time, those beliefs I find abhorrent, or maybe just plain silly.
Ok, ok, maybe not when someone implies I'm going to hell because I don't support Mike. It depends on my mood. Good mood, I shrug it off as the nonsense it is. Upset, I may invite them to accompany on my journey to hell.

ARK. BLOG: Thanks. I think a disagreement with this decision need not devolve into religious assassination. Msgr. Hebert, I must note, is not exactly a hands-across-the-aisle person himself, however. He's always declined calls from the Arkansas Times and doesn't notify us of church press events, I presume because of our position in opposition to church teachings on such issues as abortion. Ex-communicated, I guess you could call us.

The Catholic Church ignores the need for breast cancer research and boycotts Race For the Cure because of one troublesome tree in a forest of good. So should contributors boycott the Catholic Church because of these few predator priests?

Has the earth stopped rotating?? OMG - I agree with James!! Whatever shall I do now?!! ;>)

As for Catholics having any sway over "forcing their beliefs..." etc., etc. - I give you the AR Senate, which numbers approx 28 of 35 "BaptoFundies!"

GREAT post Diogotta!!!

Anyone who was brought up Catholic should not be made to feel like they are bashing. They earned the right. I stand by my take on the Catholic Church. It is a dysfunctional, misogynistic, out-of-touch, superstitious, throw-back to the middle ages. Animosity is sometimes called for. Tell me you don't think they deserve it on many fronts. Not individually in but collectively certainly.

Its Priests are largely indoctrinated and not well educated. (as are most Pastors, Rabbi's etc.). They are cowards for the most part. Yes, they are cowards. They never get out of their little Catholic, Pope tells me what to think, comfort zone. What's the point of being so immersed in religion if you are wimp. I think Jesus might say the same. Maybe? Would he be a priest? I think you know the answer to that one. (can be said for all religions, true enough.).

And yes, certainly, while much good and decent does spring forth from this, and there are some wonderful people in their ranks, it is still, a pretty dehumanizing and sick religion if you drill down on it.

Not to say many others aren't. But each in their own way. I'm familiar with the Catholic way and I find it particularly twisted. To stay in the ranks is to give your approval.

(SORRY!! - can't think of these things all at once...) This post COULD liven up considerably - Bill Donahue may weigh in shortly...blathering bulldog, President of the Catholic League...(maybe at blue name!)

NARAL is headed by a Catholic... and we are one Justice away from the US Supremes being dominated by Catholics..

Pretty soon we men-folk will be able to save a lot of postage on mail order slaves errr housekeepers..I mean Brides.

It's a good thing I don't live in LR or i would be sorely tempted to drape the landscaping of a certain church in pink ribbons this week.

>>Takes me back to the Baptist church of my childhood and the shouted from the pulpit, "God will destroy the Catholic church and all who believe in it!" (Jewish folks took a pretty good hit, too. We had to boycott all those Jewish owned stores on Main Street because they killed Jesus.<<

Doigotta, I'm curious what Baptist Church in LR you attended. I was brought up in the First Baptist Church of LR and don't recall any of the Catholic or Jewish rants you recount. My family would have been sensitive to any bashing as the priests at St. Andrew's were customers of my dad's business and two of my cousins were Jewish.

Planned Parenthood uses Race for the Cure contributions (solely, a spokesman said) for breast cancer screening.
********
I'm staying out of this fray except to emphasize the fallacy of this typical smokescreen statement.

When someone says these funds are used "solely for XYZ purpose", that means that your contributed and designated funds may free up their resources to invest in other purposes which you may not support.

So, indirectly, you are frequently augmenting purposes that you may, or may not, support.

Granted, this may not apply to a contribution for a one-time event (help a particular needy person), but it DOES apply to a cause that's an ongoing part of an organization's budget that they would otherwise cover from general contributions.

I'm surprised that the Baptists and others have not gotten on board with this as well...just wait until Dr. Dobson hears what the race money is supporting...you can bet your bottom dollar the Baptists want no part in Planned Parenthood, either.

And all of that pink is so pretty, too.

I left the church because of its position on women and a woman's right to choose. When my children were still rather young, I almost succumbed to a nostalgic moment and seriously thought about returning. I went so far as to meet with the local parish priest to discuss this. I mentioned that I had broken some of the church's hard and fast rules and that if I confessed them, I doubt I would be given absolution -- the priest advised me not to confess those particular sins. Which left me with this awful feeling in my soul. How could I receive communion if I lied by omission? I ultimately decided that I couldn't be party to this particular bit of hypocrisy and instead wandered off to the Methodists who at least accepted my infant baptism and for the most part keep their noses out of my bedroom.
And as someone pointed out earlier, the church has been responsible for most of the misery in the world -- not to mention wholesale rewriting of the Bible to suit their own politics and views. The Bible, the literal word of God? Not after early church finished messing with it.
As for what makes a priest a priest, and the willingness to be celibate, not all of them really are, but that again is one of those issues that no one is ever supposed to confess or discuss.

Wouldn't the Msgr's message have been so much better if he'd said "Although we differ with other sponsors on the programs we support, I encourage women to participate in the Race for the Cure as breast cancer impacts many in our church and they all need our love and support."

If the Catholic Church wants to have policies I disagree with, that's fine. If they don't like Planned Parenthood, so be it. But the RFTC isn't about church ideology or PP's goals.

The Catholic Church embarrasses me sometimes (this is definitely one of them), and this is coming from a Catholic who thinks abortion is a pretty bad idea.

For those of us who still have some affiliation with the Catholic church (however tenuous it may be in cases such as mine), I don't see it as Catholic bashing at all to call on our church leaders to live according to the same ethical norms they preach to us.

For those who think the political or moral record of the Catholic church is unambiguously good, I can only submit the observation of Cardinal Newman (now being considered for canonization), who once said that anyone who wants to ride peacefully in the barque of Peter would do well not to look too closely at what goes on in the boiler room of the ship.

And I have to say that my own Arkansas Baptist upbringing (I became Catholic in high school) must have been different from that of some posters. I can well recall my parents' indignation at the thought that anyone would not vote for JFK because of his religion. They remembered their parents proudly pinning Al Smith buttons onto their coats back when, as their cousins went to school wearing Hoover buttons. In their view, it was sheer ignorance to imagine a Catholic could not be a good political leader.

As for anti-Jewish prejudice, my Baptist grandfather did business by preference with Jewish merchants in Pine Bluff and Little Rock, because he said that they were just plain more honest (and more loyal friends) than his fellow Christians.

His daughter, my aunt, taught for almost 30 years in a school in Little Rock with a large Jewish student population. It outraged her that some teachers refused to teach the Jewish students out of sheer prejudice. She preferred them, because they were bright and hard-working. The teacher put Jewish children into her class deliberately because they knew she would treat them fairly.

She was a good Baptist.

Church members have a moral and religious obligation to critique their churches, then the church fails to adhere to the ideals it proclaims. The gospel of Mark summarizes Jesus's entire ministry by saying he went about healing and doing good.

So too the church: it should not play politics with the lives of suffering human beings.

Ecclesia semper reformanda est.

Most Catholics I know (including some nuns) just ignore nonsense like this.

Chick Publications tells me all I need to know about you Wafer-eating Incense Burning Mary Worshiping Abominations.

/click name and sin no more

Wouldn't it be great if, instead of ignoring the nonsense, the people in the pews demanded better of our church leaders?

As in demanding by stopping the money from coming in--the only power we have in a monarchical structure that prides itself on not having to listen to the voice of the people? As in, the same people who fund the monarchy?

Would be nice to ignore the nonsense, but, unfortunately, it is very harmful to some folks--in this case, to those suffering from breast cancer who have every right to expect a church holding up Jesus as its model to assist every effort possible to find a cure.

Most Catholics I know (including some nuns) just ignore nonsense like this.

Posted by: Polecat

You mean they never get abortions or cancer? Or they just don't care? What does the Church put in their crackers?

I agree. Those who ignore it but still belong and give money to it are a party to it. It's no virtue to ignore it yet still support it with money.

Mojo, I take distinct peasure in destroying any and all Chick tracts I find. What disgusting, perverted nonsense. Has anyone ever done a spoof on these odious monstrosities? Enquiring minds wish to know.....

BTW, is anyone willing to bet whether Msgr will backtrack when the Wafer-laden shit hits the holy fandango?

Dman, Mojo, you got me ready to do battle with this raving comic artist wannabee, Jack T. Chick, and his trashy tracts. Lo & Behold!! I found a parody site that does a great sendup on these pubs. Click on blue name & enjoy!

Jake that site is HILARIOUS!

Have you seen "The Brick Testament"?

Some of the most outrageous Bible stories told with Legos.

/click name

The one on slavery is pretty good..

/click name

This chapter on slavery is even better!

/click name

LAJ, the church was not in Little Rock.

Oh Mojo!!

We still have thousands of dollars worth of those legos jammed into some boxes. I just wonder if we could do a Mike Huckabee version of the Brick story....hmmmmm.......anyway, we've gottem far afield of the main story. My wife, who works at St. Vincents Infirmary, says they are buzzing over there about this decision by the Msgr.

I guess, Msgr is gonna hold his own version of the run and call it "The Race for the Pure."

I just bet the ol' So-and-so votes Republican.

The pity is that many of the women who get screened would probably not be checked otherwise. You gotta figure than these clinics have a predominantly poor clientele.

Of course, these poor women are going to hell anyway, so why try to help them at all?

Race for the Pure. That's perfect. Nothing else needs to be said. That puts the holier than thous stance in perfect perspective. The shame comes shining thru in such a simple 4 words.

Cure the Catholics!

Cure the Catholics!

Baptists, Catholics, even the "harmless" Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans, C of Cs--they all exist to define inside and outside, us and them. And, if you are one of "us", don't let us catch you acting like, "them."

If you knew what life was worth, you'd find yours, here on Earth.

This preacher may "pisseth upon the wall" but if he shakes it more than 3 times it is considered playing with it.

/click name

Some thoughts.

First, Eureka, when you say "we are one Justice away from the US Supremes being dominated by Catholics," you need a quick recount. Five out of the nine Justices are Catholic men. The Supreme Court already IS dominated by Catholics.

Second, since when is telling the truth about an organization "bashing?" The history and facts of the Catholic Church are what they are. Anybody can learn them. No one can refute facts, m'am. "But they've done some good things too," one will opine. Please. Everybody does SOME good: even the Nazis brought us the Volkswagen.

In an ideal world, all religions would lose their tax-exempt status and be taxed like any other business, which is what they are. THEN we'd see some realistic numbers on religious demographics.

Apropos of this thread, the following article on the religious right about to take control of the Texas State Board of Education, which largely determines what textbooks are bought around the country, through the sheer size of its purchasing power.

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/2/25/141647/060

Thus the religious right will control what is (and is not) taught about history, science and religion to America's future generations.

Religions are a competitive business just like GM and Toyota. Drop their tax-exempt status. Tax all of them. Require public accountability of their spending. That's right: tithes and donations to religious institutions would no longer be write-offs. There are plenty of non-profit non-religious organizations that provide identical public services, without the bigotry, discrimination, lies and bullying that accompany those same services when provided by religious institutions.

Stop funding ALL religions with an annual multi-billion tax exemption -- or grant tax-exempt status to all corporations too, since they're fundamentally the same thing. That's right: your stock market investments -- in fact, everything you buy -- would be a write-off!

L. Ron Hubbard (founder of Scientology) was right: "If you wanted to make a lot of money you'd start a religion." Apparently, anybody can claim a belief in ANYTHING is a "religion" and start bringing in the sheaves. A 76-million-year-old space warlord named Xenu? Tax-exemption granted. Phony Egyptian hieroglyphics on phony gold tablets discovered in upstate New York? Multiple wives (but not multiple husbands) living eternally in Chenal-like estates on the [nonexistent] planet Kolob where God lives? Tax-exemption granted. The Tooth Fairy? Granted.

Speak out or assume the altar-boy position.

Wow, lots of pent up hostility towards the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church has flaws and has errored in the past and will do so in the future. The pedophile scandal is particularly outrageous to me. But to say the Catholic Church brought us slavery (in which case the Catholic Church also controls time travel and introduced slavery to ancient Egypt, to the Mayans, to the Aztecs, etc hundreds if not thousands of year before Christ was born), causes millions and millions of deaths by not advocating condoms in Africa (somehow I missed the CNN story showing the Catholic navy with the Papal flag blockading the continent of Africa which prohibits the rest of the world from providing condoms), is illogical and anti-science (I guess it is more scientific to believe that matter came from nothing and life sprang from non-life as an atheist would believe...yes, atheism is a belief system), forcing beliefs and censorship (of course they force it on us poor unwary citizens...all movies, books, websites, blogs are clearly pro-family, pro-marriage, pro-life, pro-Christian and pro-Catholic), controls the Supreme Court with 5 Catholic justices (I must have missed the celebration that the local Baptist churches threw when the obedient, simple minded Catholic justices banned abortion), toppling governments that they disagree with (well, they did have a major role in bringing supporting Solidarity and bringing the end to the Soviet block, but hey, this isn't about positives).

Interesting use of loaded terms like "toppling" and "fundamentalists". Yes, there are fundamentalists Catholics, fundamentalists Baptists, Mormons, Jews, Muslims, etc. But some fundamentalists want to influence your politics by legitimate means and others strap remote controlled bombs to mentally handicapped women and turn them into human bombs.there is a difference.

Amazing is one blogger thinks that a Catholic organization should have to pay for something that goes against its values. Not paying for something is not the same as forcing everyone to adhere to the teachings as the blogger contends. What's next, are we going to insist that Jewish synagogues serve pork? That Moslem mosques allow women to worship with men? That Hindu temples have bull riding? That Southern Baptists have wine tastings? That Planned Parenthood and NOW publicly support and promote employees who denounce abortion? That the Better Business Bureau give funding to Marxist causes? That the Sierra Club subsidize gasoline for employees who drive SUVs? What is the standard here? Are we holding the Catholic Church to a standard that we are not holding other organizations? If you voluntarily associate yourself with any organization, you voluntarily decide to abide by its principles. Even if you do not abide by the principles, you cannot insist that they support and pay for your disagreement.

There is a lot of criticism of the Catholic Church that is warranted. But, there is so much unsubstantiated Catholic bashing in this blog that it would take a book to refute.

Having said the above, I am not sure I support Msgr. Hebert on this position since I have yet to make up my mind. I got lost in the Catholic bashing in this blog and did not find it particularly useful in informing me about the Race for the Cure/Planned Parenthood/Abortion links, provided little analysis and even less thought provoking insights (ranting and bashing are not thought provoking, they either make the writer/reader feel good about himself/herself and/or are designed to provoke a similarly ranting and raving response). I need to read some more to become informed on this particular Race for the Cure issue. Regardless of my ultimate position on the Race for the Cure, it does not mean that I do not support the Catholic Church overall. There is not a single organization, employer, charity group, school, university, parent, grandparent, child, teacher, politician, neighbor, friend, etc that I agreed with 100%, yet many of them have my love, loyalty and support...including the Catholic Church.