Arkansas Blog

From the article:

Holly Dickson, staff attorney for the Arkansas chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, said the group would continue opposing any efforts to enact ID requirements at the polls.

So the ACLU is taking a stance against a law deemed constitutional?

Wow. What's next? The ACLU standing for the right of an unborn child to live?

If the ACLU gets to pick and choose like that, there's not much point to its existence is there?

>>A spokeswoman for the Democratic Party of Arkansas said it will also oppose any voter ID requirements proposed at the state level. Democrats hold the majority of seats in the state Legislature.<<
Baxter Bulletin

Boy, once upon a time that would have meant something.
Will core Demo leggies be up in Chickenopolis helping re elect Wingnut Woods?
.

So the ACLU is taking a stance against a law deemed constitutional?<<
Red

It won't be the first time. Come Jan 20th their action shouldn't matter. With heavy gains in a Demo Congress and a Demo prez this POS the Bushit court handed down can be undone with legislation.

Really?

A Dem Congress can pass a law telling states to not require a picture ID?

Did you hear of some plan to have Congress usurp the authority of the Secretaries of State AND the state legislatures of the nation?

A-Red,

If the Executive Branch can do it (and have done it frequently and recently), then why can't the Legislative Branch also do it? You make a point similar about the ACLU and cherry-picking laws; the same applies to this situation.

If fraud is so imaginatively rampant, what photo IDs will be required for those using absentee ballots - people in nursing homes, home-bound, people with disabilities who don't drive and don't have any other use for the non-driver license, people living abroad or out-of-state, military, people who for some reason simply don't drive or can't { DWI, no vehicle, too stupid (oops they're exempted - they're Republicans or DINOs) }?

Wait Jim. Just hold up a minute. You're getting into reality. You be careful. It makes people like Red
very upset. Platitudes are more important than reality.

Red, were this the Fourth Reich I'm certain you could justify burning of certain peoples because a dictator and his lackeys in the Administration said it was ok. Wait! Isn't that what happened in the
Third Reich.

"people in nursing homes, ..., people with disabilities who don't drive and don't have any other use for the non-driver license, people living abroad or out-of-state, military, people who for some reason simply don't drive or can't { DWI, no vehicle, too stupid "

Yeah, don't let them fly either. (Yeah, I am sure only rich Republican fly..........(they are on charters and don't have to show ID))

I'm worried that absentee ballots will eventually be banned. Many state Democratic parties hold undemocratic caucuses that already disenfranchise those who can't make it out to vote. So if Democrats can do that, what's to stop absentee ballots from being banned?

All ID's and documents used to obtain them can be fraudulently reproduced. The solution is to enforce existing voter fraud laws and increase penalties if necessary. Why make it more difficult for law abiding citizens to vote (insert buy gun)? Don't the Republicans make that argument on gun control and their efforts to fight gun registration?

It's just another example of political hypocrisy and doing what is best for you instead of what is right.

Jim,

While I respect your party continuing to siphon votes from state Democrats, you point about absentee ballots is not relevant to the Indiana law. Indiana's law only pertained to people walking up to a polling place. In fact, Stephens' opinion points that out, and acknowledges problems with illegally cast absentee and mail-in ballots - specifically in a Democratic primary for mayor in East Chicago.

As far as people who do not possess a current form of identification and proceed to a polling place, the problem can be solved if the state were to pass a law which requires the Secretary of State's office to issue voter IDs to all residents, free of charge.

A-Red

No NO NO, goddamn photo IDs I say! Oh...wait....wrong thread. Though we seem to have much more corruption connected with the counting of the votes lately, I am not so terribly against some kind of ID being presented when a person votes.

I can't write a check for a pack of gum or cigarettes without flopping out my ID. Up until about 25 years ago, if I wanted a 6 pack of beer I had to show my ID. We live in an ID driven world. If you can't manage a free state issued ID, maybe you don't need to vote. That's pretty ugly, but we can't idiot-proof the world.

And if we had to present ID now....then we'd be ready for when the Republicans start screwing with who votes and how many dozens of times they vote on election day. I'm sorry we live in that kind of world today, but we do. The bar should be low, but I sorta think it's OK to have some kind of bar when we're dealing with something as supposedly important as voting in the next bunch of crooks.

Didn't some august body decide, about 50 years ago, that the $3 poll tax unduly burdened some folks? Now someone tell me, how is this situation different?

What Arkansas Red says up there is accurate, even if he doesn't (or won't) fully understand it:

The Indiana law "solves" a problem that doesn't exist and ignores a problem that does. The proposed Arkansas law is just the same--an answer in search of a problem.

Free...or a charge of 3.00...there is a difference. Whats wrong with just showing your voter registration card??

DBI, I love you, but you're assuming facts NOT IN EVIDENCE. Come November, the neoturds will not control as much as the think they do now. Let us all have a bit of (little h) hope, while remembering: We MUST all hang together, or we shall, most assuredly, all hang separately. And for you, Red, IF a frog had wings, it'd make one helluva parakeet.

* = Red star on forehead of John A Arkansawyer. Concise, up to the minute, accurate.

Doigotta I think sooner or later a law will be passed that amends the SCOTUS decision. Perhaps it will mean Congress mandates that any personal ID for voting purposes must be paid for by the state.

And the solution for vote rigging/suppression, ala Rove and T.Griffin: About three days in Old Sparky would do it- in a free market economy give the perps a choice of a $10 million dollar fine or Old Sparky. $10 million fine should keep those down the food chain from doing the bidding of Cheney/Rove.

Doigotta - Three justices specifically went out of their way to say a poll tax may not need be illegal.. So hold on to your wallet!

Deeb - this "free society" managed to get by quite well for centuries without ID at the ballot box.. I am an American citizen born and raised, by Dog! Only fascist and commies were folks who insisted upon seeing citizens papers at every turn (Now of course they are called Republicans).. Fact is, problems at the voting booth in re non citizens attempting to vote, Do. not. exist. It's strictly about voter suppression.

When my government provides a verifiable paper trail for the votes I cast... get back to me.. I want to see that paper first.

ozarkrazo, If I prayed, I'd be praying you're right about all this. I am only semi-supporting the ID thing because I take voting very seriously. Though my guy rarely wins, I always march down there and vote every time the door opens.

I'm not a violent man, but I would do much violence if I ever caught some monkey business going on where I do my voting. When our votes don't count (and lordy, have they counted lately) we got nothing. But don't worry....I'll be hanging in there until the last dog is dead.

Red, I was not referring specifically to the Indiana law, but the entire idiocy in requiring voter ID for walk-in voters but not for absentee ballots. First of all, widespread fraud in current elections has never been proven in walk-in voting (even though decades ago it was not uncommon in parts of Arkansas). Again, if voter fraud is such a problem, I guess it puts a stop to the efforts for voting by computer and mail-in ballots. The voter fraud issue has been a fraudulent "problem" created by Republicans to throw up a roadblock to discourage Democratic voters.

The only other election fraud going on is with the DINOs who court the votes of working people but legislate in behalf of their corporate owners. For years, the Democratic party has neglected and abused these people, because those voters have had no place else to go. At least now those voters have a way to vote their consciences, rather than a label. I admit, it is going to take years for some voters to break a bad habit.

Yes, lefties, let's get our priorities straight in this country. We should make id's manditory for beer, cigs, and Oaklawn bets but something more important, our right to vote, id free. Who cares how many times people vote. The Dailey's have been doing it for years in chicago and let's not forget LBJ or JFK ("how many voted?', no sir - you question should be "how many votes do you need"). Heck, try Conway County and the Demorcrat's machine over there. Ballot boxes in the attic for a few years should do the trick. Yep, only repubs hijack elections in this country.

Red,

You have to keep in mind that the libs think that illegals should be allowed to vote too. It's just not fair to requre a driver's license because the illegals might be disenfranchised when they can't vote.

OK so it's a New Orleans story so it may not count but at the last election an acquaintance down there was denied his vote because the poll workers insisted he had already voted.

I can favor required ID on one condition. ID cards issued at no cost. Without ID obtaining government services is nearly impossible as are most financial transactions. I think its a helluva trade to ease life for the most poor if you shut up the whining of the SUV riders who whine fraud in the inner city every time a Dem wins.

Talk about demagoguing. Greenberg has proposed the most comprehensive ethics reform of any legislator, calling for legislators to report all meals from lobbyists, for one.

I personally have witnessed the same person attempt to vote more than once with multiple voter id cards. After voting the second time he came back in to vote for a third time and was turned away. Regardless how prevalent you think it might not be, it's ridiculous to say that proving who you are is an unfair burden. Attempts to require photo id have also included free ids for poor folks, so that's just an excuse.

Also, I checked and Woods lives in Washington, not Benton, county.

ARK. BLOG: The ethics proposal was toothless and preserved the rotten system. My apologies to Benton County

Anonymous,

I believe you are lying when you claim, "I personally have witnessed the same person attempt to vote more than once with multiple voter id cards. After voting the second time he came back in to vote for a third time and was turned away."

But maybe I'm wrong, so why don't you prove you aren't a liar by answering some questions:

Who was this individual? Where was this? What polling place? And most importantly, where's the police report? I mean, you did report this, right? Or are you in the habit of condoning election fraud?

In the "Lying or just plain stupid? department", Severus sniveled, "You have to keep in mind that the libs think that illegals should be allowed to vote too."

Since Max et al are so danged interested in laws that have teeth and aren't just show why don't we start the call right here to eliminate the time wasting step of even asking for a voter id. What is the purpose of wasting the voter or the poll worker's time to even bother with the formality.

End the charade and pass legislation that removes the requirement to ask for a voter id.

ARK. BLOG: I opposed the request for ID at the poll. But you don't have to produce it. Remember that you must produce ID to register to vote. That you must sign when you vote, an important piece of evidence for any fraud investigation. You must be able to give your address and birth date. The reality is what many have written -- there's little percentage in walk-in voter fraud. It simply doesn't produce numbers sufficient for the risk of exposure that comes from attempting to orchestrate it. Far more likely is machine fraud by people who rig the equipment or from misleading ballot construction. Why aren't Repubs railing about THAT?

"Anonymous,

I believe you are lying when you claim, "I personally have witnessed the same person attempt to vote more than once with multiple voter id cards. After voting the second time he came back in to vote for a third time and was turned away."

But maybe I'm wrong, so why don't you prove you aren't a liar by answering some questions:

Who was this individual? Where was this? What polling place? And most importantly, where's the police report? I mean, you did report this, right? Or are you in the habit of condoning election fraud?

Posted by: John A Arkansawyer [TypeKey Profile Page] | April 30, 2008 12:05 PM"

I believe you're an idiot. I hardly claimed some sort of scientific statistic. Your questions are stupid. There were fifty other people there. They kicked the guy out and I didn't want to lose my place in line to call the police. The election officials didn't attempt to detain the guy so blame them. What an idiot. I'm sure you'd eagerly believe an anecdote of a Republican keeping some poor person from voting.

Such a high level of discourse today. It makes me proud to be an Arkansan just reading most of these comments.

Anonymous,

You claimed to have been an eye-witness to fraud under circumstances that should've left a record.

So, once again: Where and when? Name the polling place and the date of the election where you and the election officials let someone get away with committing a felony and casting an illegitimate without calling the police.

I'm willing to believe you blew off calling the police, but you're accusing the election officials of dereliction of duty that ought to get them thrown off the job at a minimum. I don't think that's credible, so put up or shut up.

Inside says, "Yes, lefties, let's get our priorities straight in this country. We should make id's manditory for beer, cigs, and Oaklawn bets but something more important, our right to vote, id free."

This lefty doesn't think you should have to identify yourself to spend money beer, tobacco, or gambling. I think you should have to prove you're qualified to spend the money, including proving your age. With a properly designed identity system, that's possible. This is an aspect of my work and a subject in which I've taken a professional interest, and I assure you that it is a technically achievable and socially desirable goal to separate authorization from identification in some circumstances.

Max hit the nail on the head when he said this: "Remember that you must produce ID to register to vote." That's the time at which you should go through the process of being identified. If you forget your ID then, it's no big deal--you can register at another time--but if you forget to bring your ID on election day, you may very well lose your right to vote due to the press of time.

Disenfranchisement by any means, including making people jump through unnecessary hoops, is deeply wrong.

As someone who votes on every occasion I cannot recall what election it was. I'd just as soon not indicate where I was as it might give people an idea where I live, which might help curious minds figure out who I am.

As for the poll workers, they're hardly professionals and they were swamped that day. Your disbelief doesn't concern me. I know it was true and I know it's not that far fetched given the ease with which an unscrupulous operative can obtain multiple voter id cards. Since no one is required to present photo id to vote, it's a simple matter to vote multiple times.

One more tidbit which you won't be able to believe is that I've also examined numerous voter registration forms in the same hand writing with the same return address. Voter names included the names of businesses and characters such as "Mickey and Minnie Mouse". Why do you think dead people are routinely registered to vote? It's so someone can vote more than once.

Feel free not to believe me. Everything I said is true. If you don't believe it, that's your loss.

Oh, and as for the requirement to prove your indentity at the time of registration you are remarkably misinformed. Go down to the courthouse and ask for a stack of voter registration forms. They can be filled out and mailed in. No one looks at ids.

Anonymous,

I don't find your story convincing or believable, even with your further explanations. I'll leave it at that.

I will to comment on two new things you bring up: "One more tidbit which you won't be able to believe is that I've also examined numerous voter registration forms in the same hand writing with the same return address."

No, I do believe that. I've seen it myself in petition drives. Over on the earlier thread on this subject, I pointed out that sort of fraud was fraud against the person or group paying for the voter registrations and not against the election process itself. It's bad, but it's not voting fraud, because "Minnie Mouse" and "Wal-Mart #121" can try to register all they want, but they don't succeed. The people committing that fraud aren't trying to vote; they just want to take the money and run.

The other: "Oh, and as for the requirement to prove your indentity at the time of registration you are remarkably misinformed. Go down to the courthouse and ask for a stack of voter registration forms. They can be filled out and mailed in. No one looks at ids."

You may be right about this one point, so far as you go. When I changed my voter registration recently, I don't recall showing my ID. I do know there are other checks performed, but I've never looked into exactly what they all are. (That's a good project for my list--thanks for helping me think of it!) But again, this is a problem with registration and not with voting, and it needs to be addressed at the site of registration, not at the polling place.

Who cares what you think?

FYI, there are and have been dead people who have successfully registered to vote in Arkansas. Why do you think that is? Some of the operatives trying to register fake voters are idiots. It doesn't take much intelligence to be successful at it, though.

If I was a clerk at the court house and a dead person came up to the counter to register to vote, I believe I'd shit my britches.

If I remember correctly my polling place asks to see your driver's license. I'd rather be asked for that than a voter registration ID because I have no idea where mine is. I suppose I was given one but don't remember ever having one.

Why can't we put ink on voters hands like they do in some countries? I nice "I VOTED" stamped on the hand would prevent more than one vote per person.

By the way, thanks for the laugh hugh man.