Arkansas Blog

"Once I likened Hillary's husband to Joey Buttafuoco. Was that sexist? Or was it merely mean, beyond the bound, hilarious?"

No, it was stupid and uncalled for. So is this column.

Brummett is kind of clueless on this point, isn't he? The whole overt point of "Fatal Attraction" was the monstrousness of a woman who wasn't a homemaker. (The covert point was an AIDS allegory during the height of AIDS panic.)

Still, Max, I'm wondering--why is hardly anyone asking Black women what they think about this? It seems to me they have a very good vantage point from which to compare racial bigotry and sexual bigotry.

What Brummett and others fail to see is that the crude, hateful treatment of Hillary - not so much by the public - but by TV personalities would not be tolerated were it directed toward Obama or McCain. Many on CNN and MSNBC would be in the unemployment lines were their target one of the two maile candidates. Even George Bush received respectful tolerant treatment until recently when it became okay to openly bash him. I do agree with Brummett, however, that it isn't sexism (at least not to a great degree) but I think it is a class thing. The Clinton's have always been viewed as 'ignorant Arky's', despite their education and intelligence levels. The media and DC always thought they didn't belong and putting a toe in the water found the Democrats so splintered between Obama and Hillary that it was now gonna be okay to bash her - they are having their fill of everything they ever wanted to say about both husband and wife.

I'm sure Bill's history of womanizing brought some of this down on them, but whatever the reason, there is no excuse and I'll never understand Democrats going along with the kind of hateful bashing that I thought was reserved for the nasty Republican swiftboaters. Republican's have more respect for Hillary today than the people of her own party. I liked Obama better from the beginning but I lean slightly toward Hillary, only because I think her prospects would be better in Nov, so I would never tolerate bashing of either of them and wish all Democrats could show the same respect for both.

This has taught me that it isn't just being a Republican that brings out this ugly thing that makes you so blind to what is obvious - it's alive and well in the so-called Liberal Democrats too. It's left me wondering where I fit in this political climate as a life long very proud Liberal Democrat who doesn't feel so proud anymore.

John, we may find out what black women have think on the subject of sexism soon, because the latest anti-Obama emails in my inbox have been directed at Michelle - "the intellectual racist" - they call her. We'll see if black women protest on the grounds of sexism or racism - I suspect the later. I will be curious to see if MSNBC or CNN discuss any of this at all. I used to get the awful hate emails about the Clinton's, back during the 90's and some are now recycled against Hillary - but Fox news was the only media outlet to give those hateful Clinton emails any attention - but that was the 90's and this is now and every nasty thing said about Hillary makes their headlines. They whoop it up getting all that pent up Clinton hate a venue.......

There is no evidence that the Clintons have ever been regarded as "ignorant Arkies." On the contrary, both of them have been widely regarded from the beginning as remarkably intelligent, bright, smart, even. It was Bill's trashy behavior that marked him as intelligent, bright, smart white trash, or close to it, Flem Snopes' grandson, and this offended everyone who thinks a president ought to be above bringing ill repute to the White House. Hillary, not an "Arkie" at all, was seen as a shrill, arrogant virago. The dump on her now, by reporters who wanted to say harsh things about her but were afraid of being lumped into her "vast right-wing media conspiracy," is enough to engender a little sympathy, but the dump is hardly "sexism." Brummett is of course correct in his distinguishing the personal from the bigoted, but we have become so fragile that it's hard to have a genuine campaign for fear of hurting someone's feelings. Taking offense has replaced baseball as the national sport.

>>"vast right-wing media conspiracy,"<<

Think you added a word into HRC's quote. "vast, right-wing conspiracy" was the original.

John B such rambling for a supposedly uppity, non-partisan, journalist! You are a fortified Hillary Misogynist and try as you might that's one fact you can't whitewash even referencing/using CNN's endangered talking heads.

John you and your alike's can pile on & pile high but it will take a bitch to clean up a bastards mess and that alone is sufficient to elect Hillary.

The only thing standing in the way of America installing a worthy president (Hillary) is all these PAKOBAMITES who is dead set on electing BushMac for another 4 years.

Ci.Ci says,

"We'll see if black women protest on the grounds of sexism or racism"

And I ask, "Why not both? It's not either-or."

John, I certainly think it could be both racism and sexism, but I think it will be racism because I doubt there is much currency these days in protesting sexism.

>>There is no evidence that the Clintons have ever been regarded as "ignorant Arkies." On the contrary, both of them have been widely regarded from the beginning as remarkably intelligent, bright, smart, even. It was Bill's trashy behavior that marked him as intelligent, bright, smart white trash, or close to it, <<

Your statement proves my point. I said, despite their education, etc. Once Bill's "bubba factor" kicked in with the womanizing, etc., DC society looked on with glee that they were right that the former Gov of Arkansas was just an ignorant Arky and had no place in polished society. Sally Quinn literally foamed at the mouth.

I think all of it - racism, sexism, anti-imigrationism, all the hubris in our society, stems more from classism than anything else.

"John, we may find out what black women have think on the subject of sexism soon, because the latest anti-Obama emails in my inbox have been directed at Michelle - "the intellectual racist" - they call her. We'll see if black women protest on the grounds of sexism or racism - I suspect the later."

It will also be interesting to see if any of the women's groups that support Hillary, and Hillary herself, will defend Michelle Obama from attacks by right-wing groups, or if they will just sit back and let her be attacked.

As for Hillary's treatment by the media, I think we all knew she would get treated badly, but none of us expected it to be this bad. I think you can go through the "elite" media and assign a reason for it on a person-by-person basis. Chris Matthews? Raging sexist! No doubt about it. David Shuster? At minimum just hates Hillary, and there very well could be some sexism there too. And we could go on and on. And let's not forget that for many members of the media it isn't sexism or personal dislike of Hillary, it's just that they are republicans. But for the most part, the Washington media has a high level of dislike of both Bill and Hillary. Some of their reasons for not liking Hillary are fair and legitimate, and some are pretty irrational. And certainly some of those reasons are rooted in sexism.

But, there are completely legitimate reasons to vote against Hillary, to designate every single negative feeling or comment towards Hillary as sexist is just silly.

The Democratic national committee under Howard Dean has been systematically rooting out anyone and anything favorable to the Clintons since the last election. Howard Dean has a personal vendetta against the Clintons, and he has been working very hard to take away any remaining influence of the Clintons. Howard Dean has been working to undermine and sabotage Hillary's candidacy from the start. He has managed to make her look like an inept and incompetent campaigner. Anyone who thinks that the Clinton's don't know how to campaign is a fool. Howard Dean and his allies have been working very hard to make Hillary look bad. Ever wonder why Obama had such a great web based fund raising mechanism? He can thank Howard Dean. Howard Dean has also been pressuring super delegates to commit to Obama behind the scenes.

Well, Mr. Happy, this Hillary supporter is defending Michelle Obama all the way. The problem is the typical liberal internet sites are all so foaming at the mouth anti Hillary that those of us who support Hillary have very few outlets in which to make a case of support for anyone and be noticed or heard. That's my lament right now - I won't participate in any venue that slams either candidate, so I can't find a place to go.

I answer my emails with defense of whichever one is slammed, but I don't see Obama supporters doing the same, in fact, they support the Republican slime machine as long as it's directed at Hillary.

>>they support the Republican slime machine as long as it's directed at Hillary.<<

Me oh My CiCi. That's going to be the rudest awakening for the followers. If they found
HRC's criticism and talking points rough just wait till Uncle Karl takes them to the cleaners.
They may view it humorously for now, maybe a leg up, but the dirty knife fight will begin
next month and will it get bloody. Some of those Bama kids are wake up smelling like wet fish.

Well, I hope the media and everyone else had fun with all the Clinton-hating and sexism.

This is one liberal Democrat that won't be voting for their guy.

First of all...

"This is one liberal Democrat that won't be voting for their guy."

Troll...

And for the other Hillary supporters on this blog...you are starting to sound whiney. We need your help, people...

There are plenty of folks spewing crap from both camps but we have the same objective: the White House on 1/20/09...

For both Obama supporters and Hillary supporters...get over it. Start working on the general...

It's fine for Hillary to ride this thing out...no truck with that...and if the nominee isn't named until after the nuclear option is employed (which I personally think is a bad idea, but what do I know? for that matter, what does any blogger know?) it'll be time to get to work...whether it's Hillary or Obama or Mickey Mouse...

The racism/sexism/bigotry/etc. is getting old...and only Democrats are throwing it one way or the other...there is a bigger picture here!

Damn...

"We need your help, people..."

Oh really? I thought your guy could inspire and unite people...why on earth would you need our help? Hillary supporters have a rightt to be "whiney" but thanks for the insults. I think we can all come up with some names to call Obama supporters.

You can call me a troll all you want, but this liberal Democrat still isn't voting for Obama.

That's right, troll...we really do need your help...the Party will need to unify behind the nominee...

If you are such a good liberal Democrat then you would put Party over person in the general...I sure will if Hillary gets the nod...four more years of Bush policy is something we can't afford...

And if Obama is the nominee don't worry about his ability to inspire and unite...I believe we can all agree that he is a gifted orator...

Hurl the insults all you want, troll...doesn't faze me. I'll be supporting the Democrat and will proudly cast my vote for either Obama or Clinton...

CiCi, how long have you been on the Clinton campaign staff?

Cute, Prouster.

I would not be on Hillary's campaign staff even if I had the chance because I like them both and would refuse (ala Mark McKinnon) to bad mouth either of them.

If it doesn't' "faze" you then shut up and keep your insults to yourself. I'll vote for and not vote for whomever I damn well please. If Obama (and his supporters) had stayed positive and not lied about Clinton, there wouldn't have been a problem. Their actions, like all actions, will have consequences. I've put up with their shit since last summer when Obama called Clinton "Bush-Cheney light" and the RFK bull shit was the final straw. I had ever intention of voting for Obama but unfairly kicking Clinton when she's behind was too much.

Another 4 years of Republicans will only make the back lash and demand for change in 2012 even stronger. Next time perhaps we can nominate someone that's actually qualified.

You see, Ci.Ci, sexism is alive and well in the southern redneck ignorant unsure of their own
sexuality so have to lord it over someone who is suppose to be weaker.............
just shut up and get back in the kitchen.
My Smarter Than Anyone Grandma used to say, *A stuck pig hollers loudest.*
Seems we have some stuck pigs on here.
I'm sure there are those who would like you, me, Zelda, ALiJB, and other females to drop off
the blog....but, news flash.....I ain't goin nowhere.
BTW.....men with tiny winy itsy bitsy peni tell women to shut up.

LOL, Jazz..........so glad you showed up. You have a way with words!

"...BTW.....men with tiny winy itsy bitsy peni tell women to shut up."--jazzy

LOL!! Oh my, jazzy, no one could've said it better. So true!

One of my personal 'itsy bitsy' Bubba favorites is how a good f***ing will solve every female problem in existence. It's amazing...a cure-all for every uppity smart woman. Of course, most of my girl buds regularly bet each other that those guys are the ones who would turn tail if ya stopped on the street after hearing their oh-so sweet words and said: "Hey, Mr. Construction guy...bring it on!'

Hillary has been treated like crap; and much of it is sexist crap. Obama and his supporters need to show the world how they'll bring the world/country together by starting with Hillary and her supporters.

"looking forward to 2012" claims to be a liberal Democrat, then says, "Another 4 years of Republicans will only make the back lash and demand for change in 2012 even stronger. Next time perhaps we can nominate someone that's actually qualified."

Is he an idiot? Or is he a Republican, and thus a liar? Or all three? Who knows? Who cares?

All I know is that I don't think I can make it through four more years of Republican warmongering and economy decimating. After President Shit for Brains debauchery...I'd vote for my teen neighbor to keep more of this crap from occurring.

I hate what's happened to Hillary...what IS happening to Hillary...but Obama is light years ahead of the alternative.

Things need to get worse before any real change will occur.
4 more years of a Republican in the white house should do the trick.
The chances of a depression in the next 4 years is too great to have a Democrat as President anyway.
Republicans got us into this mess and they need to be in office when the shit hits the fan.

While we're on sexism, racism, classism and any other ism you want to throw in, did anyone ever comment publicly on Michelle Obama's tight, tight suits, as they did on Hillary Clinton's cleavage?
I know I'm old school, but we were never, never, never to wear a skirt that wrinkled laterally while we were standing. We were told it made us look like . . . er, uh, like . . . uh . . . well, you know.
Yeah, you're right. Least of our worries.

Definition of sexism?

MSNBC

What kind of progressive American leader would stand silent, supporting with the cold reserve of ambition the disgracefully sexist, blatantly anti-feminist attack on a well-respected woman of the same party, a political foe perhaps, but a national Democratic leader?

Barack Obama - so far.

Make no mistake, Obama's breakthrough says something wonderful about the state of racial politics in our nation - or perhaps the lack of racial politics - and the involvement of young people in politics. But his silence in the case of the cynical media lynching of Hillary Clinton by a national press corps obsessed with her gender is telling. And unless Barack Obama speaks out, his campaign's chilling acceptance of the gender bias stirred by our national media will also remind many of Ronald Reagan's acceptance of the race-baiting southern strategy - because if Obama accepts the presidency, at least in part, because of abject sexism, a brutal gender attack on a female rival - the most famous female Democrat in history - he will set feminism in our country back a generation.

There is no hope for John Edwards, of course. His cruel, stony reaction to the news that Senator Clinton got a little emotional during a New Hampshire diner visit was a window on the man's soul, a window into an empty room.

But Obama claims a mightier throne, one forged in liberal ideals of justice and equality and hope. He is the secular messiah of the Democratic Party, ordained by Oprah Winfrey as the chosen one and given to preaching about transcending petty politics. Yet there he was at the New Hampshire debate, throwing a scornful "compliment" at his rival when asked about Senator Clinton's "likability," one of the many sexist code words deployed against her in this race. "She's likable enough," he smirked, looking downward.

I think every woman reading this post knows exactly how Hillary Clinton felt in that moment.

Obama has benefited mightily from sexism in this campaign, and has remained silent. And that sexism is starting to be noticed, and commented on - even in places you don't expect it. John Cole, to say the least, is no Hillary Clinton fan but the gender-based attacks have gotten to him:

Quite frankly, I hate to say this, but I think what we are actually seeing is a double-standard here, and the feminists may be right. This is all about Hillary being a woman. John Edwards has been 150 times as angry the whole campaign, and has built his entire campaign around it. Howard Dean was angry, and people lapped it up. Here, Hillary isn't really angry, just matter-of-fact and frustrated, and people are giving her shit.

I don't want Hillary as President, but it sure looks to me like she isn't getting a fair shake and is being subjected to a double standard. It's bullshit.

Then there was Clinton's flash of anger in the same debate as the two men teamed up to bash her - she showed her anger, something male candidates (think McCain) do every debate, and was promptly accused of having a "meltdown." More people are beginning the see this media lynching as a negative story for Democrats of truly historic; here's Kevin Drum at the Washington Monthly:

Am I feeling bitter? You bet. Not because Hillary Clinton seems more likely than not to lose - I can live with that pretty easily - but because of how she's likely to lose. Because the press doesn't like her. Because any time a woman raises her voice half a decibel she instantly becomes shrill.

To read more click on my blue name...

Found this interesting site about all the attacks Obama has made against Hillary Clinton. And somehow the press has convinced most people that she started the attacking and attacked him more. Click on my name to read the attacks.

Prepare to spend a long time if you read them all....

Sexism? Click on my blue name to take a look at Obama campaign co-chair Jesse Jackson Jr, speaking about Hillary's emotional moment in NH.

January 14, 2008 -- PRESIDENTIAL hopeful Barack Obama claims to run a clean campaign, but someone in his camp took a swipe at Hillary Clinton through the candidate's theme song.

As Obama and his wife, Michelle, strolled triumphantly into his victory party in Des Moines, Iowa, on Jan. 3, Jay-Z's "99 Problems" was blaring. In it, Jay raps, "I got 99 problems, but a bitch ain't one."

Some listeners took it as a not-so-sly reference to Hillary.

"We didn't know he used that," a shocked Clinton spokesperson said.

Obama has no problem admitting he's a rap fan.

"I tell you what, I can tell you the kinds of stuff I love dancing to . . . I'm sort of the generation of Stevie Wonder and Earth, Wind and Fire," he told CNN on the campaign trail. "But I'm sort of hip to the younger stuff. You know, like Beyoncé's 'Crazy in Love.' That's a good song to dance to. Eminem . . . although he curses sometimes."

and Obama calling a female reporter "sweetie" and ignoring her question....click on blue name

This is like a white candidate referring to a black male reporter as "boy."

Excellent commentary, 2012, it is more than obvious for anyone objective enough to be fair, that Hillary's treatment by the press has been hideous. I'm hoping Obama stomps McCain all over the map, but no one should ever forget that another Democrat was unfairly trashed by the media and no one cared. Hillary mentions RFK's death and it's suggested she needs to resign from the senate, but this song Obama used was not mentioned at all in anything I read until your post. I just hope that McCain finds it as difficult to criticize Obama as Hillary did, but I doubt that will happen. Republicans won't likely turn on McCain no matter what he says about his opponent.

As for the "sweetie" comment - we won't hear anything about this in the press because it wasn't an issue for them or for most of us. Calling each other sweetie is pretty common place. But, it will silently hurt Obama's vote in areas where men and women look upon that remark as disturbing. We can only hope it didn't get widespread airtime - which it didn't.

I wonder which current media darling, Obama or McSame, will be anointed media darling if it's between them. Obama's got, among other things, the liberal love for atonement/a racist shield and he's new; but McSame has been intimate with his media darlings for a long time and has inherited the Military Industrial Complex/Country Club mantel. Hmm...I'm guessing the Darling title goes where it always goes: Republican money.

Sorry for the late reply, 2012 hopeful...

By taking such offense to the media's treatment of Hillary I understand now why you are taking such offense at being called a troll...of course, you are entitled to as many monikers as you want or need, I guess...

Anyway, for the more substantive posters here I completely agree that Hillary has had nothing but crap handed her way from the media. Unfair. No doubt...

But we knew this would happen all along, right? I remember discussing this topic on this blog over a year ago. I thought we would all be prepared. I remember gleefully having conversations with the Clinton haters just knowing that she was going to be my nominee and the next president...

But her campaign was a slow train wreck. Really no fault of hers except that she hired them. Scoff all you want at Dean's 50 state strategy but it has been effective, exciting and has brought young voters and minority voters out in droves. Hillary's entire campaign thought the nomination would be wrapped up by super Tuesday...shoot, staffers couldn't even work past that date because they knew, just KNEW it would be over then...

Clinton bashing is the media's favorite past time. Doesn't make it right but you have to have thick skin in this game...

And for Obama's "Bush/Cheney Lite" comment? Politics. I remember Hillary very specifically stepping around whether Obama was a Muslim or not...

Interesting, Rosso. I wasn't on this blog a year ago so I don't know what was discussed, but I was one who expected the media to give her a hard time. I always saw the media as holding the Clintons in contempt.

What HAS been a jolt to me and what HAS been 100% unexpected to this Democrat, is the ease with which the Obama enthusiast accepts, condones and worse yet joins in, with the media bashing of the Clintons. I will never understand this strange turn of events even though the media treatment could certainly have been and was expected.

I've discovered a very disquieting fact - I can't count on fellow Democrats, even given similar policy proposals - not to pile on with unnecessary abuse and disrespect. I've discovered that given the opportunity, many Democrats act just like Karl Rove.

Spot on, Ci.Ci...

I hope that whoever gets the nomination busts ass to try to quash any supporter's efforts at belittling the other candidate's supporters. There is a real challenge there. It will be hard work for Hillary to win over some of Obama's folks while it will be near impossible for Obama to win over folks like 2012; or that letter writer in today's Dem-Rag claiming to be a "good Democrat" but will vote for McCain over Obama. Whew...sorry for the run-on, there...

Anyway, I personally will work to get the Democrat elected. Hopefully we can get our tent straightened out soon...

AMEN CiCi
They are indeed just like Karl Rove...perhaps worse.

Rosso says:
And for Obama's "Bush/Cheney Lite" comment? Politics. I remember Hillary very specifically stepping around whether Obama was a Muslim or not...

That's the best you got? She was asked and she said she had no reason to believe he was. That's an honest answer and doesn't come close to being called "Bush-Cheney light" which is like calling your opponent the devil. Well I hope he enjoyed calling her that. The media may cover up his negative attacks but I know better. Obama and his Clinton-hating supporters can kiss my ass.

Rosso, if Obama and you want to win any Democrats over, I suggest you stop trying to rationalize comments such as "Bush-Cheney light." Your response should have been that he was wrong to call her that and there was no excuse for it. His arrogance and that of his supporters will never allow him to do that though.

"Obama and his Clinton-hating supporters can kiss my ass."

Classy...

That's okay...

Anyway, haters like you will never vote for Obama anyway...

Man oh man, remember when The Bold and The Blue/The Real Bold and the Blue/liberal Dem looking forward to 2012 said things like:

-"I'll still vote for Obama even if he's our nominee based on health care alone if nothing else."
-"I'd vote for Obama over McCain if he were a Muslim which he's not."

Then his/her candidate lost. And things changed.

2012, the "bush cheney lite" stuff didn't bother me. I thought that was par for a campaign. I also didn't mind Hillary questioning his experience. It was up to each of them to make the best case for themselves. What I did object to was the "wink" and "nod" when the Clintons were accused of racist remarks and the statement from the Obama campaign that Hillary's RFK comment was "unfortunate". Unfortunate implies she actually said something she should not have, when there was absolutely nothing wrong with what she said. The only problem with the RFK comment was the way the media played the last few words, minus the context, over and over again, to deliberately make it seem she was implying Obama might be assassinated when I don't think a single person in the Obama campaign or the media actually thought that - they just found it useful.

Hillary would have to be more than politically smart - she would have to be a mind reader to know what innocent word would next be turned into an uproar.

"she's likeable enough"

the only blatant lie i've heard Obama utter all year

(but then again, he isn't a "saint", he's a politician)

JD, the attacks on Hillary by the media and Obama's campaign regarding her reference to RFK was what changed my mind. Obama implying the Clintons were being racist was bad enough but I let it go along with the rest. I didn't change my mind because she lost. I've thought this race was over since Super Tuesday. The fact that she is losing and will not be the nominee is what makes the extremely unfair attacks on her now more unacceptable. Why kick her when she can't win? That's just sorry as it gets. That is why Obama and his supporters that knowingly let her statement on RFK be misrepresented can kiss my ass.

I hope you all enjoyed lying about the RFK remark. I doubt I'm the only Democrat Obama lost over that. It would take a pure idiot to say her remarks were "careless." One dishonest, arrogant, thin-skinned, coke head as president is enough.

make that...

One dishonest, arrogant, thin-skinned, EX-coke head as president is enough.

And this is what a decent Democrat would have said:

I know Sen. Clinton would never make a remark about RFK's assassination and mean it in the way the AP reporter interpreted it. Clearly she was mentioning it as a historical reference and the idea that she was referring to me being assassinated is ludicrous.

but instead he referred to it as "careless."

What a pathetic excuse for a human being.

"make that...

One dishonest, arrogant, thin-skinned, EX-coke head as president is enough."

... could you be more specific please?

Thin ice, 12...

Street cred is vital...

I didn't say anything that's not true. If Obama and his supporters can lie about the RFK comment, then I can tell the truth.