Arkansas Blog

I fully expect NormaBates to now slam the Lt. Governor for having an "unneeded child" and blast him for increasing his family's carbon-footprint.

I congratulate Gov. and Mrs. Halter, although Norma may have a hard time voting for you.

Huge difference between 18 kids and 2 kids, Red. That was a cheap shot.

Congratulations, Bill and Shanti!

So the designation of "unneeded" is only determined by the size of a family?

Who determines the threshold? You? Norma?

You don't find 18 children excessive? In a world where there is a food shortage and about to be a water shortage, you don't think 18 kids is pushing the limits of sanity? I understand that there's nothing anyone can do to stop them...it is their choice. But it's disgustingly irreverant and arrogant to the rest of the world. Could they not have adopted the last dozen? Wouldn't that be a more Christian thing to do anyway?

For starters, congratulations to Bill and Shanti.

Second, what's the difference between the 18th and 2nd child as individuals? Why is one more worthy of life than the other?

And why is it arrogant to have children in a country where we don't have a lack of resources but not arrogant to have children in India and China - the source of our over-population problems?

Just playing Devil's advocate, devilsadvocate.

Did I say the child wasn't worthy of life? Nope. Did I say it was irresponsible for the Duggars to pump out 18 kids. Yep. There is no logical argument to having that many kids. I'm not suggesting abortion. I'm suggesting birth control and adoption.

And, for the record, India and China's current population growth is only slightly higher than their average rate of growth. The highest boosts in population growth today are the U.S., Pakistan, Russia, and Western Europe.

And, just to get in on playing devil's advocate, isn't it awfully American of you to say that someone starving from a lack of resources on the other side of the world isn't a concern for us here? Isn't that the very definition of American arrogance?

And to play it again, we're running out of water, too.

Congratulations to the Halters!

However, when China takes over in a few years, the Halter's like myself will be in big trouble. Their first born is female as are both of my kids. If they know the sex of their second child already, they're not telling. But on top of having to learn Red Chinese to shop at Wal-Mart, I'm going to be missing 2 kids, the Halters one and counting. I'm a double sinner in the eyes of the Red Chinese since I have 2 kids and both are female. My lovely wife will not let me near her to try for a son.....sniff.

We could start addressing this problem now and comb out around the world lookin for a chunk of land not in China's path. We could buy it or bomb it...anyway...own it and start transporting female children there to be raised in secret so that one day an all girl Army could swoop down out of the heavens and wipe out the invading Chinese Army. But we gotta start now! We never heard what happened about Dubai Ports World owning all our ports.....I think they still show up for work each day....and if those people get wind of Girl Nation......we'll never get the jump on ole Red China.

And in case they're already listening in....condolences to China on the recent earthquake. Do you think China has any Christian TV preachers who are on the air now blaming the earthquake on gays, the ACLU or feminist?

You may think it's drawing a fine line but isn't saying someone's birth is irresponsible in essence saying they shouldn't have been born? I know if you said it was irresponsible for my mother to have me I would have a hard time not taking that the wrong way.

We do have a rising fertility rate that's around 2.4 or 2.5 right now (it takes 2.1 to replace population, I think) but it's due mostly to immigration, not people like the Duggars having 18 kids. Large families like the Duggars are extremely rare. You might as well blame couples who visit fertility doctors or families who have 2 kids. They're doing much more damage than the Duggars and others like them just by their sheer numbers.

And...

"isn't it awfully American of you to say that someone starving from a lack of resources on the other side of the world isn't a concern for us here"

When did I say that?

And would the resources that the Duggars would have used have been sent to the third world had they not been born?

"I'm a double sinner in the eyes of the Red Chinese since I have 2 kids and both are female."

Uh huh.

Actually, I'm quite happy for the Halters and their upcoming daughter. As happy as I am for my nephew and his wife who just welcomed their baby daughter into our world.

Most married couples in America and Europe, without coercion, have chosen (for years, now) to have about 2.1 children. That's the population "replacement rate" in relatively wealthy countries, with good medical care, necessary to maintain their populations, fill jobs and care for the elderly, according to USA Today.

Families like the Duggars, on the other hand? They're reproducing at NINE TIMES the "replacement rate" (which, of course, takes into account the population's natural death rate).

Let's say the Duggars' 18 children follow the parents' role model and each have 18 children themselves. And those 324 children follow the same pattern and each have 18 children. And those 5,832 children maintain the family script. And those 104,976 children, etc. That's over 1,889,568 people the Duggars have added to the population in just four generations.

Of course, it makes sense if the Duggars want to start their own religion: Duggaranity.

Otherwise, it's only rational to ask of families like the Duggars, "Why so many children?" The question leads to answers that are not necessarily pretty, considering earth's present population reality.

Would "I" determine people's birth rates, ArkansasRed demands of me? Of course not.

Yet, in the "civilized" world that enforces informed self-control in one's choices and actions across a wide variety of circumstances (speed-limits, public overindulgence in recreational substances, respect for others' property and civil rights, et al.), it seems only a matter of time that reproductive overindulgence like the Duggars' will force child-limitation legislation in this country as it has in China, for instance, with all the horrific implications (in China, India and elsewhere) like infanticide and abortion of female fetuses, etc.

The keyword is "informed." Education, in other words.

If the Duggars and their offspring ARE informed and educated about the facts of global population, and continue to reproduce at nine times the "replacement rate," then one is stuck with their thoughtless, astonishing, arrogance. Why should THEY, and not everybody else, replicate themselves at nine times what is necessary for the health of the planet? Because if everybody followed their example overpopulation would soon extinguish the human race.

I'm just saying.

18 little Duggars. you know darn well some will be Democrats, some gay, maybe even a liberal or two. And at least one will look back at his or her childhood and call it abusive. The best story line will be in 25 years.

And if everyone followed the example of having one or zero children, the human race would be extinguished much quicker, but we don't call people who choose not to breed or only have one child irresponsible.

Just saying.

Lot's of things are bad if everyone in the world does it. What kind of argument is that?

If musicians only played bass, The Beatles would've sucked.

"isn't it awfully American of you to say that someone starving from a lack of resources on the other side of the world isn't a concern for us here" - DA

When did I say that? - moxie

"And why is it arrogant to have children in a country where we don't have a lack of resources but not arrogant to have children in India and China - the source of our over-population problems?" - moxie

Isn't that the same as saying that it's more ok for us to do this nonsense because we have (and waste) more resources than everyone else in the world? I understand that it's in our nature to be excessive and gluttonous in everything we do, but this ranks up there with, "Well, I don't have to go over a mountain to drop my daughter off at school, but I still drive a Hummer." I just feel sorry for the kids. Pyschological abuse is almost a guarantee in that household. Those kids are going to be so mentally and socially screwed up, it won't be so amusing years from now....

Uh, Moxie, remedial reading might be suggested?

Whoever said, "if everyone followed the example of having one or zero children, the human race would be extinguished much quicker?"

Not me.

You.

This, my darling, is called setting up a "straw man" and then attacking it.

2.1 children is the actual statistic I cited, for those of us who prefer facts.

Please regroup and try again.

Norma, if you believe what you say, then maybe you and 17 of your buddies could, you know, "take one for the team"?

Yes, Norma. You correctly point out what I said.

Here's what you said about the Duggars - "Because if everybody followed their example overpopulation would soon extinguish the human race."

And here's what I said - "if everyone followed the example of having one or zero children, the human race would be extinguished much quicker."

You did not say that. You said that top one and I said the bottom one. I did not say you said the bottom one.

I should also point out that you didn't make the lame Beatles joke - I did. Just in case you were confused.

You is a very good reader.

As for a "straw man" argument. Who was it that said everyone should have 18 children? Wasn't that the "straw man" you were attacking?

"And why is it arrogant to have children in a country where we don't have a lack of resources but not arrogant to have children in India and China - the source of our over-population problems?" - moxie

"Isn't that the same as saying that it's more ok for us to do this nonsense because we have (and waste) more resources than everyone else in the world?" - DA

No. It's saying it's equally ok.