Arkansas Blog

The Republicans push this for two reasons. First, they think it will stop Democrats from voting and because it distracts from the real area in need of reform, open, recorded, audited voting systems. Right now, we use faith based systems, which must be to the benefit of Republicans or they would be screaming for reform.

As for the suppression, there isn't much voter fraud, it's a fictional issue but they may hurt their own base as much as the Democrats with this kind of insanity.

To answer your question, no I don't know where my birth certificate is.

Apparently Max won't let a little thing like reading comprehension get in the way of his snark.

The Missouri amendment would require a birth certificate to register to vote, not to actually vote.

I seem to remember many on this board who did not agree with having to present an ID to vote, felt it was okay to present proof at the time of registration.

Moreover, this is different than the Indiana law in that it is up to the people of Missouri to decide in the form of a direct vote. To defeat this, all you need is for the folks at St. Louis ACORN to start rounding up absentee ballots.

Way to edit, and not acknowledge your mistake, Max.

Clearly, given the push for all these new voting laws, we have a problem with illegals running amok through our elections. Else wise we wouldn't be putting so many resources into stopping the scourge...especially compared to the demonstrated, very real problems with those crappy error-ridden voting machines (specifically the ones with no paper trail). But I must've missed something 'cause I've never seen one news account of illegals caught voting. Of course that doesn't mean it ain't happening...does anyone know of any illegals caught voting? Of any election fraught with fraud 'cause of illegals?

There are still quite a few folks alive who do not have a birth certificate -- born at home with no attending physician. They are in a group more likely to vote, older American women. (Older men of that era usually got their paperwork straightened out for the draft/military.)
Worried about voter fraud? Think some folks are going to enlist hundreds, no thousands, of illegal immigrants to vote out your favorite party?
Yeah, right. I'd say most illegal immigrants are keeping their heads down and not likely to be drawn into that sort of scheme.
And if they were? If you vote regularly, you will know that your friendly neighborhood polling place is staffed by ladies and gentlemen who know virtually every voter by name. I know one "sheriff" (a voting official designation) who will go home after 14 or 15 hours working the polls and call regulars who didn't show up to make sure they're not sick or in need of help. Think you can pull a shenanigan with this lady? Think again.
Any voter fraud we are likely to experience will be on a much greater scale and of a more technical nature. I say bring back those dinosaurs, the curtained lever machines.

Oh, I don't know. How about 1,800 made up voter registrations by folks at ACORN in Seattle?

Doigotta, your ignorance with respect to voting in Arkansas is impressive. Ever hear of early voting? If there's anybody in Arkansas who knows "virtually every voter by name" across the entire county I live in, which is the scope of eligibility for two weeks of early voting, I'd sure like to meet 'em!

It's called Brad blog. One stop shopping for all the info on anti voting scams / election problems.

Nothing Republicans do is honest! They lie, trump up divisive fear, and conquer with their latest con which usually involves acheiving exactly what they claim to be against. And they spend a ton of our money doing this... Imagine how much the entire fleet of electronic voting machines which must be destroyed has cost us!

No one else, but Republicans, hires teams of Tim the cagey vote Grifters nor has countless legal problems and convictions for phone jamming. No one else sees boogie alien voters where none exist..

The list is endless and the goal is suppression, unless you are white or rich (preferably both).

Of course MO is a target state.. Considering it is a swing state.. there should be little or no surprise it's high on the last minute CON list.

"Oh, I don't know. How about 1,800 made up voter registrations by folks at ACORN in Seattle?"

Those registrations were faked by workers who were paid for every new application they returned. There is not a speck of evidence that "Mary Poppins" was ever planning to go to the polls and vote. The story is a red herring used to phony-up the voter fraud "crisis."

The Republicans sincerely believe that this move will stop Democrats from voting, not prevent fraud. The joke's on the Republicans, people making over $300,000 aren't their real base. There aren't enough voters in that demographic, and a good chunk of them Democratic anyway. When the Republicans win, it's with the Bubbas who think their ship is about to come in and don't want some Welfare Queen leaching their windfall or with religious fundamentalists who have been duped into believing Republicanism is Divine. There will be quite a few from both of those groups who can't meet the new voting requirements. These laws won't be around long.

"Oh, I don't know. How about 1,800 made up voter registrations by folks at ACORN in Seattle?"--Arkansas Red

Are you implying, Red, that those 1,800 were illegals or that illegals had invaded ACORN to make mischief? Seems more likely (and historically sound) that it's the already registered Republicans/Democrats who've been screwing with our elections. And, compared to the Republican crap we experienced during the last two elections (Diebold, Diebold, Ken Blackwell, Black Box voting...), the Dems are straight shooters when it comes to election fraud.

Sorry, New, but this is germane to the discussion since the Missouri ballot proposal would affect registration. It does not affect voting requirements.

This is from last Wednesday's Arkansas Democrat-Gazette article on the North Carolina and Indiana presidential primary election results:

"Voting in Indiana was carried out under a state law, recently upheld by the Supreme Court, that requires voters to produce a valid photo ID. About a dozen nuns in their 80s and 90s at St. Mary's Convent in South Bend were denied ballots because they lacked the necessary identification."

The first casualties of the Supreme Court's new voting policy.

"Nothing Republicans do is honest! They lie, trump up divisive fear,"

Ah yes and democrats are so much better?

I have to see a politician, or hear a politician, or even know of a politician who did care for any one but his own self above all others. Making promises that they know they may not be able to deliver on. And then blaming congress because the country is in such a bad shape.

Does any one remember Clintons mid-night laws that he signed that did not take effect until after Bush took office. What about the presidential pardons for murderers and rapists that he was supposed to have signed that did not take effect until after Bush took office.

Don't sing the praises of democrats or any political party until there is proof that that candidate does actually care for his constituents.

As for ill-legal aliens voting, while I have not seen any evidence of such a thing happening; I would still consider any law that helps to keep non-legal residents from reaping any benefits or privileges of living in this country a good law.

The sad part about all this voter suppression stuff by Republicans is that during my 4-years of military service I actually believed my service was in part to protect our right to vote. Boy, was I ever wrong. I was actually preserving the right of only the well connected to vote.

Requiring a birth certificate to register is a solution without a problem.

Maybe the Republican platform will include bringing back the poll tax, and not just for African-Americans, but for European-Americans who vote the wrong way.

Wes starts out with good points but ends up swimming alien kool-aid.. Just remember, Wes.. Most Democrats are rejecting Clinton.. and even more Democrats are working to change their party.. GOPers, clearly, are not doing anything but promoting more of the Mcinsane!

waterboy, Now that the Military is swinging towards favoring Dems, GOpers are working double time to suppress their votes too!
I believe the latest trick is to no longer allow troops e-voting while abroad.

Again, ACORN and fake vote registrations. There is your problem.

Or the dog who was registered.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003758181_votingdog22m.html

Or the 303 illegal immigrants in Texas (41 who voted).
http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=119078&article=2138213

Or the eight of the nine 9/11 hijackers who were registered to vote.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110010814

Or the poster-woman for the opponents to the Indiana law who is registered to vote in two states and has a Florida license that she tried to use in Indiana.
http://www.kpcnews.com/articles/2008/01/09/news/today/evening_star/doc478441f2313a5420740819.txt

"Wes starts out with good points but ends up swimming alien kool-aid.. Just remember, Wes.. Most Democrats are rejecting Clinton.. and even more Democrats are working to change their party.. GOPers, clearly, are not doing anything but promoting more of the Mcinsane!"

When I see the proof, Then just as loudly as I sing this, you will hear me sing a new song. But not until I see the proof.

EXCLUSIVE: Hundreds of Non Citizens Have Registered to Vote in Bexar County

Officials are confident new procedures will purge them from the rolls
By Jim Forsyth
Wednesday, May 16, 2007
Hundreds of non citizens, most of whom are believed to be illegal immigrants, have registered to vote in Bexar County in recent years and dozens of them have actually cast ballots, canceling out the votes of U.S. citizens, 1200 WOAI news will report Thursday morning.

Figures obtained by 1200 WOAI news shows 303 illegals successfully registered to vote, and at least 41 cast ballots in various elections.

Bexar County Elections Administrator Jackie Callanan confirmed the figures, but she says a new form of voter registration card, which requires people to swear they are citizens when they register, should help cut the problem, because people who vote illegally can be charged with perjury.

And the county has some sly ways to catch them.

"Maybe they have received a jury summons, the jury wheel relies on registered voters. They send a statement to the jury room that says they are not U.S. citizens and then we get that report immediately," Callanan says.

It's a hot issue in the Texas Legislature, where republicans are pushing a bill that would require voters to show some form of identification before voting.

"Considering that a photo ID is required to buy Sudafed, I can't understand why anyone would argue that the same standard, if not a higher standard, should apply to voting," Lieutenant Governor David Dewhurst said. "Why would any Texan oppose legislation that ensures only U.S. citizens vote in elections?"

While not taking a position on the legislation, Callanan warned that any law that required that people present ID at the polling place might actually discourage people from voting.

"It will be cumbersome to have them presented at the polls," she said. "The lines will be longer. It will require an additional check."

Some Democrats in the Legislature have fought the proposal, saying it would keep the poor and minorities, who generally vote Democratic, away from the polls. A key Democratic Senator and Dewhurst got into an argument on the floor of the Senate over the emotional issue.

Callanan says if an ID law is approved, she hopes a process is in place to allow the Secretary of State, not the individual poll judges at the polling places, to inspect the identification and certify that a voter is fit to vote.

Dewhurst says the legislation has been rewritten to make it as easy as possible for a person to prove their legal citizenship.

"Voters can now present military ID, valid employee ID, citizenship certificate, passport, student ID card, handgun permit, utility bill, bank statement, pay stub, mail from a government entity, marriage license, birth certificate, adoption certificate, pilot's license, hunting license, or even a library card," Dewhurst said. "What's so hard about this?"

http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=119078&article=2138213

UMMM; I like validated Kool-Aid.

Now why would the democratic party need the help of ill-legal aliens if they were interested in the welfare of our country?

"The sad part about all this voter suppression stuff by Republicans is that during my 4-years of military service I actually believed my service was in part to protect our right to vote. Boy, was I ever wrong. I was actually preserving the right of only the well connected to vote."

Waterboy; you should not feel that your service to our nation was in vain. It is not your fault that our government is pulling away from the constitution. Rmember, the oath you took was to protect and defend the constitution not the government. You did your part and I thank you for it.

Really, Maxwell, you are smarter than the average bear. I didn't realize you could run into so many problems if you were one of two elderly and very bored ladies assigned to staff the early voting booth at the county courthouse, fifty feet from the sheriff's office. Why, who knows how many illegal immigrants might rush your Deibold. Downright scary.
Now if you were to make note of potential problems with absentee ballots, I might listen up a bit more closely. However, the prospect of someone in the nursing home filling out Grandma's ballot doesn't concern me nearly as much as wholesale roadblocks put in every potential voters' way.
BTW, how does a married lady, especially a serially married lady, assure folks she really is the former Janice Doe, especially if her parents spelled it Genise and that's what she has used all her life.
At risk of repeating myself until I'm blue in the face -- I get that way sometimes -- I say that large scale voting irregularities are the ones we need to worry about.
And need I remind you that a whole bunch of folks couldn't vote as recently as the 1950s because they didn't have $3 to spare? Let's not turn back the clock and make it more difficult to cast our vote.
As Waterboy said, "Requiring a birth certificate to register is a solution without a problem."

ARK. BLOG: I agree completely. But voter suppression is a problem and that's what's afoot. Forewarned, etc. ...

You are upset that a few non-citizens are so committed to participating in our political system by voting that they risk arrest and deportation, when so many regular American citizens don't care enough to vote, no matter how easy we make it for them to do so - voting by mail, by computer, early voting, extended hours, absentee.

Maybe we are approaching this wrong. Perhaps we need to prosecute citizens who do not vote. With this in place there is no way that the imaginary hordes of non-citizen voters could influence our elections.

I don't have the the time to follow up on verification in Jim Forsyth article, linked above.. Is this the same Forsyth who shills with the new republic? It's awfully easy to imagine a GOP Texan, Elections Administrator Jackie Callanan, being another helpful servant in creating an illusion of a mess for fellow republicans political gaming.. not like it doesn't happen every day, sometimes more often than that.

Something is wrong when a group of old Nuns are turned away at the booth in Indiana (because they do not have Zeee papers). Though the irony of the fact Scalia catholic supremes are the folks who stifled the catholic vote should not be lost.... It's best we err on the side of citizens liberties than cut them off despite our alien fear/hate, imo.

The whole thing with the nuns in Indiana was orchestrated. The nuns deliberately left their id's at home because they opposed the law. In the general election, when it matters, they will have their id's. The Catholic church has unfortunately become a big supporter of illegal aliens in this country, and as far as its concerned, illegals should be granted all of the rights of lawful US citizens.

Americans spend their time trying to figure out how to keep their fellow citizens from voting.
However, in the USA, they dont put alot of requirements on who pays taxes.

"One of the most well-known compulsory voting systems is in Australia. All Australian citizens over the age of 18 (except those of unsound mind or those convicted of serious crimes) must be registered to vote and show up at the poll on election day. Australians who do not vote are subject to fines although those who were ill or otherwise incapable of voting on election day can have their fines waived."

Keep in mind the Rwingnuts new found power of voter-supression was enabled by Bush-lovin Sen. Mark
Pryor.

What will be next? A blood test? Proof of payment of taxes? Tithes receipts? You know Adolf and Himmler are rolling over in their graves with envy. They too did it in small incremental steps. By the time the big steps were taken it all seemed normal. Judge Scalia became ecstatic recently when the possibility of extending the death penalty to other crimes arose. He was excited.

"Americans spend their time trying to figure out how to keep their fellow citizens from voting."

Uhm, maybe I missed something. Who is it that is trying to keep legal citizens from voting?

"However, in the USA, they dont put alot of requirements on who pays taxes."

And you think this is wrong?

"Something is wrong when a group of old Nuns are turned away at the booth in Indiana"
Eureka Springs

"The nuns deliberately left their id's at home because they opposed the law."
Severus

Then they should have been turned away.

alien fear/hate
Eureka Springs

I have no fear nor hatred for ill-legal aliens. I just do not see the need to help some one who is sneaking into my home. What ever taxes they do pay is returned to them if not completely then almost. Hence they do very little if anything to support our country and still expect and demand help in the form of food stamps and free medical. If they want help then let them share the load.

Let's see Wes, They are sharing the load. They pay sales taxes, taxes on utility bills, fees for a variety of government licenses and requirements, money withheld from paychecks for taxes and social security (and probably pocketed by the employers). They're unable to draw on social security or get tax refunds. Without their purchases, many people like Wes would not have jobs. Fear of detection keeps many from seeking government services. If Wes applied his math to everybody in this country, he'd probably find a higher percentage of negative contributors among good ol' American citizens than among the "ill-legal aliens."

For those who think proving citizenship is sometimes not difficult, I say you need to think again. My two sisters and I and our families are planning a cruise this summer and for a time, a passport was a requirement (now delayed for a year I think), and in order to get a passport you have to send in your birth certificate. I got out my birth certificate and found my name misspelled. Wouldn't work. Had to get it corrected. This required a relative older than me who would go to a notary and swear as to the correct spelling of my name and then along with other ID I had to wait for the state of Texas to wade thru the paperwork to get this accomplished. Lo and behold, my two sisters finally found their birth certificates and both found their names misspelled. One sister actually had an expired passport she had gotten when either the birth certificate wasn't required or no one looked at it, but that just confused the situation more - she now had conflicting documents that had to be cleared up.

We invited my aunt and uncle to accompany us, but they are in their eighties and don't have birth certificates and the thought of the work required to get them made them pass up on the opportunity even tho neither had ever been on a cruise and really wanted to go. No way would they go to the work required even if it were required to vote - they would just pass.

I'm in favor of proof of citizenship when you register, but I am also in favor of some leeway and common sense in the decision making. An obviously American, elderly person of any race, with proof of residence and maybe a school record of some sort, should be deemed a citizen. As my aunt recently stated - when she was a child, if you were here you were a citizen. I think the fear of "people voting" is the ugliest part of the Republican Party............well, their playing puppet master to the religious right is pretty ugly too............oh and don't forget their crazed reaction to gays and the abortion issue..........come to think of it, everything about that party is ugly.

"They are sharing the load. They pay sales taxes, taxes on utility bills, fees for a variety of government licenses and requirements, money withheld from paychecks for taxes and social security (and probably pocketed by the employers)."

Really? I will say again the same thing that I have been told by people working in the revenue offices. People who feel it is wrong, but who are also told by their superriors to keep quiet about it. When a child is born in this country it automactically gets a social security number because it is automactically a citizen of this country, I have no problem with this. But then that social security number is given to as many as twelve adults to use to get a job. So when tax time does come around one person will file on that number and that person will get back most if not all of what has been paid into that number. What they do with this money is any ones guess.

I trust the people that told me this. I trust that they know their jobs and I trust them in their feelings of this situation. But if you can prove that the computers can distinguish between more than one person putting money into a single social security identified by a number then please do so.

I personally witnessed a factory that was known to have hired a large number of ill-legals and after receiving word that INS would be coming within in a week to nose around, told all of their employees that if they could not prove that the social security on file was their own and valid then they would not receive a pay check. So you go figure. I have seen ill-legals filing for income tax returns and I know that these same people usually get back a large chunk of change, so don't tell me that some employer is pocket their money.

"They're unable to draw on social security or get tax refunds." Maybe there a few who have problems but I have found that the majority are doing quite well. And as for them not being able to draw Social security, I think this is good.

"Without their purchases, many people like Wes would not have jobs." Half if not most of their moneys go back to their country of origin so pleas show me how their purchases give me a job. And besides this my job is not dependent on what you or any one else may buy.

"Fear of detection keeps many from seeking government services." That may explain why many of them receive food stamps and there are laws that uses our tax dollars to pay for their medical needs.

Wes, I am always perplexed by all you good citizens who complain about all of the law breaking that goes on and how you have proof and/or witnesses to these crimes yet you don't report the crimes except anonymously in blogs or obnoxiously loudly in coffee shops. If you are so intimately aware of these crimes, why don't you get some official action going? Otherwise, you're either an accomplice or a blowhard liar.
You said,
"But if you can prove that the computers can distinguish between more than one person putting money into a single social security identified by a number then please do so."
Unless they are all using the same name, the W-4 and W-2 forms will weed them out.

"Wes, I am always perplexed by all you good citizens who complain about all of the law breaking that goes on and how you have proof and/or witnesses to these crimes yet you don't report the crimes except anonymously in blogs or obnoxiously loudly in coffee shops."

Ah yes, let us put them all in prison so that our tax dollars can be legally used to feed and care for them. May-haps our prisons here in this country is preferable to their life in their country of origin. This way they truly do not have to do any thing but sit back and leach off of those of us who do pay taxes.

'Unless they are all using the same name, the W-4 and W-2 forms will weed them out."

Tell you what go to your local IRS office and begin to ask question about your own account but do not give them your social security number just give them your name. Then come on back and tell us how far you get. It is the number not the name that Identifies the tax account. You can also use your math in this experiment. Type your name into the search engine, your full name will work as well, and then tell what percentage of information actually pertains to you personally.
I know in my own community there are two other people with my first and last name, and one of them actually has my initials.

W-2's and W-4's are merely forms that are typed into the computer system and unless the information is flagged the computer will accept the information and work accordingly. I say again show me the program that will distinguish whether or not money is being poured into an account from too many sources. Unless that account is flagged the computer could care less and will do what is told to do. And why should a company that can save thousands of dollars ignoring the numbers flag information that could put its own officers in prison.

"I am always perplexed by all you good citizens;" And pray tell please tell me where I said that I was a good citizen. I think my term was that I see no need to help the person or persons sneaking into my home.

"accomplice or a blowhard liar;"

Sense you are making the assertion the need to prove this is in your hands.

And I still say "But if you can prove that the computers can distinguish between more than one person putting money into a single social security identified by a number then please do so." You have yet to do so.