Arkansas Blog

How about starting with a list of specific accomplishments that qualify Obama to be president. Not his promises, not philosophy, not personality, not his speaking ability, with no references to his opponent.

Quite simply, what has he tangibly and measurably accomplished in his political or professional career?

Sounds good to me Don.

NBC treated General Clark's remark about as I expected: Big shock! Big knuckle rap!

Completely ignored that Clark didn't disparage McCain's patriotism; simply observed that flying an airplane and being shot down is not a qualification for the presidency--which it is not!

Acted as if Clark's remark was a substantive issue!

How come the major networks can't seem to distinguish news from an observation?

How come the major networks blow a sound bite into a major campaign issue?

How come the major networks can't focus on the actual qualifications for the presidency?

Both of them are qualified to be President.

I think the more relevant question is who will be the better president?

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I'm still waiting for someone to explain what was wrong or non-factual about what Clark said.
People are going to stop even talking to the press on behalf of Obama, if they keep getting condemned and thrown under the bus every time the press or the right-wing applies some heat.
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It doesn't do any good to have an experienced quarterback if they can't run the right plays.

Don, to be honest I really can't list any points of personal accomplishment of Obama's, I really haven't paid that much attention since this all started simply because I have absolutely no intention of voting for ANY Republican. I have read his bio and looked through his campaign materials and read all I can on the internet and I can tell you this........HE AIN'T McShame and that's good enough for me. After the last seven years who he isn't is the most important point for me.

I'll leave it to the others to list the points you're looking for.

Barak Obama is qualified in all the ways that the constitution requires to be POTUS. I can't say he is the most qualified person by experience, etc., who was available to us - but he is certainly qualified and he will be the 44th POTUS. His resume is thin and probably padded, but in the end, none of that matters other than age, place of birth.

I found an interesting website where people just post things that are funny they overhear during their day - on the street, in restaurants, at work, etc. I think it is a lot of fun to read and occasionally you run across something really funny. This one is cute and is an example I thought might be appro since we've talked about feminists, and sexism recently - it's stereotypical but I thought it was a hoot.....

Woman #1: No! I'm not going to tell you. You'll just want to argue about it.
Woman #2: What?! I won't argue, just tell me!
Woman #1: Definitely not telling you!
Woman #2: Why not?!
Woman #1: You always want to argue!
Woman #2: I won't argue!
(woman #1 laughs out loud)

* Bill Clinton says Barack Obama must 'kiss my ass' for his support *

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2211812/Bill-Clinton-says-Barack-Obama-must-'kiss-my-ass'-for-his-support.html

Three ways to lower the cost of gas? I'm not a fan of Newt, but did find this clip interesting. Blue name.

Good questions DK.
I guess you're right. Obama shouldn't be president, because he doesn't have any experience with presidential stuff.
The most qualified person to be president is Donald Rumsfeld...or maybe Dick Cheney.
Let's elect those qualified guys, just for shits & giggles, and see where we are in another 4 years.

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I don't normally agree with Newt either but at least he's one of the few Republicans that actually use their brain to think. He's right about his first suggestion. That's the only thing that would cause an immediate price in oil other than banning speculation which is not entirely up to the US. The other two are long-term solutions and the oil bubble will probably burst before those could take effect.
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Having the right play book is more important than having experience.
We had a chance to pick a president that had the right play book AND experience.
Obama being able to beat such a candidate was one hell of an accomplishment.
Now it's a matter of choosing the guy with the right play book or the one with the wrong play.
What good is experience if you use it to run plays that do not work?
Bush was able to run the plays he wanted to run. The problem was the plays didn't work.
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Notice how Don Keyhotay "cleverly" phrased his question to EXCLUDE all facts about why McCain is UNQUALIFIED to be President.

Just another example of attacking the messenger when you've nothing to say.

Click on name for the REAL MCCAIN.

Exactly Norma.. we are back to the least worst choices.. All you have to be is born in the USA and over 35 years of age to "qualify". I would ask.. What disqualifies either major candidate? And I could list scores of reasons on McCain.

Newt Gingrich is a scummy fascist liar.. on his good days. Even when he's giving you what you want to hear he's laughing to himself if you believe him for a nano second!

Most of us agree BC was a good president and his previous experience was governing a state that ranks 49th in most measures. W, RR, JFK, and Peanuts-no world-stage experience before becoming Prez.. Probably the best resume of a candidate in the past 50 years was George Herbert Walker..and what a gem he turned out to be. There is no internship for the presidency....McC and Obama are as qualified, and as unqualified, as anybody in the past 50 years. The only real differentiator is who will they nominate to the supreme court. Sad, but thats it.

Norma:
Nothing clever about my phrasing - that was as plain as I can make it. McCain has a history of accomplishments to be measured by - some good and some bad. With McCain's history, you can use facts to justify supporting him OR to claim he is unqualified and oppose him.

I want to know what credentials Obama has on his own, regardless of who his opponent is - If he has none, which seems to becoming readily apparent, then he is just an empty pin-striped suit with a pretty face, a staged articulate voice, and a plethora of empty, feel-good promises that he can't fulfill. Chasv would probably call him an ear-tickler.

But nobody - NOT ONE PERSON - has provided ANY tangible accomplishments to justify voting for Obama (which, to my chagrin, I did in the primary).

CiCi:
Based on your reasoning, I am equally qualified to be president as either of them. And that, my friend, illustrates what a sad state we are in.

I learned long ago not to vote for someone you don't know - because IT REALLY CAN GET WORSE. I kinda forgot that so now I want to justify my previous error, so . . .

Someone -PLEASE - provide some personal factual accomplishments to measure Obama by.

For Don Keyhotay:

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Having the right play book is more important than having experience.
We had a chance to pick a president that had the right play book AND experience.
Obama being able to beat such a candidate was one hell of an accomplishment.
Now it's a matter of choosing the guy with the right play book or the one with the wrong play.
What good is experience if you use it to run plays that do not work?
Bush was able to run the plays he wanted to run. The problem was the plays didn't work.
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From a 2007 Obama brochure by Ron May:

10 years of senate experience (8 state senate 2 federal)
with much aisle crossing bi-partisan solutions. In state
senate, sponsored 780 bills, 280 were signed into law.

100% approval rating: League of Conservation Voters,
Planned Parenthood. National Education Association
gives him an "A" on their most recent scorecard.

His first year as U.S. Senator, Obama held 39 town hall
meetings throughout Illinois, and in senate, sponsored
152 bills and resolutions, and cosponsored 427 more
Speaker Harry Reid designated Barack Obama as the
Senate point man on ethics. Obama is known
unquestionable ethics and integrity.

Background :
Worked for $13,000 / year helping inner city Chicago poor.
Registered 150,000 people to vote. Graduated first black
president of Harvard Law Review, passed over 600 high money
law firm offers to work for civil rights practice at fractional pay.

State senate :
Adds health insurance for 20,000 children, Welfare reform,
Earned income tax credit, increased minimum wage ($5.15 to
$6.50). Death penalty reform making interrogations be video
taped passed Senate 58-0, signed to law by governor who first
opposed Obama's bill. Sponsored bill probing police profiling.
Obama opposed Iraq war publically, long before the invasion.
Accurately depicted it as undetermined length, undetermined
cost, undetermined objective, resulting as civil war. Same
assessment Bush Sr. & Dick Cheney both gave in early 90's.

Federal senate :
Worked with republican senator Lugar to expand and author
program to locate & dismantle stray Russian WMD's left over
from the cold war after the disbanding of the USSR.
Jan. 2007, major ethics/lobbying reform bill, w/ Russ Feingold
insisted tougher measures banning lobbyist gifts/ meals/ jets,
disclosure of earmark & contribution bundling to candidates or
committees; restricts retiring Congress from going into lobbying
Toured Kuwait, Jordan, Israel, Palestinian territories, he told
Palestinian Authority Abbas that US would never recognize
Hamas leaders until they renounced mission to attack Israel.
In Africa, publicly took AIDS test as example of responsibility
Obama cosponsored Secure Orderly Immigration Act by John
McCain. Passed 62-36. Makes undocumented persons who
have been here 5+ years only allowed to stay and apply for
citizenship, if pay back taxes, learn English and no criminal
record. 2 million undocumented persons who have been in the
United States for less than two years would be ordered home.
Called for increased fuel efficiency standards (3% / year).

From Tony Roma:

His US Senate Work in Detail:

As a state legislator, Obama worked with both Democrats and Republicans in drafting successful legislation on ethics and health care reform. He sponsored a law enhancing tax credits for low-income workers, negotiated welfare reform, and promoted increased subsidies for child care. Obama also led the passage of legislation mandating videotaping of homicide interrogations, and a law to monitor racial profiling by requiring police to record the race of drivers they stopped. During his 2004 general election campaign for U.S. Senate, Obama won the endorsement of the Illinois Fraternal Order of Police, whose president credited him with having been "immensely helpful in working with police organizations" on death penalty reform.

Obama sponsored 152 bills and resolutions brought before the 109th Congress in 2005 and 2006, and cosponsored another 427. Obama took an active role in the Senate's drive for improved border security and immigration reform. Beginning in 2005, Obama co-sponsored the "Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act" introduced by Sen. John McCain (R-AZ). He later added three amendments to S. 2611, the "Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act," sponsored by Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA). S. 2611 passed the Senate in May 2006, but failed to gain majority support in the U.S. House of Representatives. In September 2006, Obama supported a related bill, the Secure Fence Act, authorizing construction of fencing and other security improvements along the United StatesMexico border. President Bush signed the Secure Fence Act into law in October 2006, calling it "an important step toward immigration reform."

Partnering first with Sen. Richard Lugar (R-IN), and then with Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK), Obama successfully introduced two initiatives bearing his name. "Lugar-Obama" expands the Nunn-Lugar cooperative threat reduction concept to conventional weapons, including shoulder-fired missiles and anti-personnel mines. The "Coburn-Obama Transparency Act" provides for a web site, managed by the Office of Management and Budget, listing all organizations receiving Federal funds from 2007 onward, and providing breakdowns by the agency allocating the funds, the dollar amount given, and the purpose of the grant or contract. In December 2006, President Bush signed into law the "Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act," marking the first federal legislation to be enacted with Obama as its primary sponsor.

As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. In August 2005, he traveled to Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan. The trip focused on strategies to control the world's supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons, and weapons of mass destruction as a first defense against potential terrorist attacks. Following meetings with U.S. military in Kuwait and Iraq in January 2006, Obama visited Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian territories. At a meeting with Palestinian students two weeks before Hamas won the legislative election, Obama warned that "the U.S. will never recognize winning Hamas candidates unless the group renounces its fundamental mission to eliminate Israel." He left for his third official trip in August 2006, traveling to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad. In a nationally televised speech at the University of Nairobi, he spoke forcefully on the influence of ethnic rivalries and corruption in Kenya. The speech touched off a public debate among rival leaders, some formally challenging Obama's remarks as unfair and improper, others defending his positions.

In the first month of the newly Democratic-controlled 110th Congress, Obama worked with Russ Feingold (DWI) to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions under the "Honest Leadership and Open Government Act", which was signed into law in September 2007. He joined Charles Schumer (D-NY) in sponsoring S. 453, a bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections, including fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls, as witnessed in the 2006 midterm elections. Obama's energy initiatives scored pluses and minuses with environmentalists, who welcomed his sponsorship with John McCain (R-AZ) of a climate change bill to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by two-thirds by 2050, but were skeptical of his support for a bill promoting liquefied coal production.

Later in 2007, Obama sponsored with Kit Bond (R-MO) an amendment to the 2008 Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges, and calling for a review by the Government Accounting Office following reports that the procedure had been used inappropriately to reduce government costs.[80] He sponsored the "Iran Sanctions Enabling Act" supporting divestment of state pension funds from Iran's oil and gas industry, and joined Chuck Hagel (R-NE) in introducing legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism. A provision from the Obama-Hagel bill was passed by Congress in December 2007 as an amendment to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill. Obama also sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to provide one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries.[83] After passing both houses of Congress with bipartisan majorities, SCHIP was vetoed by President Bush in early October 2007, a move Obama said "shows a callousness of priorities that is offensive to the ideals we hold as Americans.

Don, there are no accomplishments that I know about other than a good education and a brief history in Illinois politics and even briefer in the US Senate. I have said already on this blog that we don't know this man at all and I truly believe some progressives who have given him their heart are ripe for disappointment. It can go either way IMO. He may be great and he may be a failure of the first order - but he isn't McCain and he isn't a Republican.

I think some of his decisions in recent days tell us we don't know how he will govern and that bothers me a lot - but I had already decided before the primary that he was not my choice for POTUS. So, I'm not really too surprised that he is endorsing the SC decision on guns, favoring the DP for child molestation, opting out of public financing and supporting FISA - I'm not surprised at all.

I ran out of gas twelve country miles from home today so I'm tired. But Don K said the following:

McCain has a history of accomplishments to be measured by - some good and some bad.

What good?

This was in another thread and is so good it's worth repeating...

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These homosexuals just won't shut up till America grants them equality.

Yet Christian opponents of same-sex marriage (like the AFA) are reluctant enforce the Bible.

Hence -

Draft of a Constitutional Amendment to Defend Biblical Marriage:

* Marriage in the United States of America shall consist of a union
between one man and one or more women. Gen 29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5.)

* Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines in addition to his wife or wives. (II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron
11:21)

* A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. Deut 22:13-21)

* Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be forbidden.(Gen
24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh 10:30, 2Cor 6:14)

* Since marriage is for life, neither the US Constitution nor any state law shall permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9-12)

* If a married man dies without children, his brother must marry the widow.If the brother refuses to marry the widow, or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe and be otherwise punished in a manner to be determined by law. (Gen. 38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)

* In lieu of marriage (if there are no acceptable men to be found), a woman shall get her father drunk and have sex with him.(Gen 19:31-36)

God said it ALL. You don't get to pick and choose.

I may not know much, but I know this much: if there's one thing I'm basing my entire life on it's the dreams, visions and hallucinations of 2,000 year old schizophrenic desert sheep herders.

Like herding sheep in a desert isn't your FIRST clue.

Posted by: NormaBates | June 30, 2008 05:24 PM

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The real test is what/how do they respond to a REAL CRISIS...look at FDR, one of the greatest..How did he look on paper..Sec'y of the Navy, Gov. of New York.. but yet he literally saved our country by LEADING!!

Jake-snake, thank you for adding some facts about Obama's history and credentials. I'll pass them around.

Ms NormaB loved the video. Pictures still say thousands of words.

durango, Newt the Grinch was telling the truth this time whether my friend ES thinks so or not.
I support nuclear energy with some caveats like we've never had before. No self-inspections . allowed. No-fault fines for violations. Criminal penalties for serious violations or loss of permit.
I wonder what would happen say mid Feb of 09 if President Obama released a third of Strategic Petro Reserve? In less than 2 months retail gas prices would drop. However, just about without fail petro bubbles last 7 years. So this one is not ready to pop just yet. But it will.
Will have my gold certificates cashed in before then.

I was accused of not paying attention in school. 5 years ago I would have bet I wasn't much at paying attention, but I think I've been selling myself short. Years before McCain ran for P the first time in 2000, I had already picked up on him saying one thing and voting the other. It's like there are 2 McCains, the one that talks and the one that pushes the voting button.

Norma's link shows this two-faced MF in old age. By now he's slipped to the point where he can't remember what lie or what vote he lied about yesterday. Shoot some truth serum to Tnuc, his wife and I'd bet she'd tell us it's sheer hell living with the old man. I want coffee! What's this? Coffee! Goddamn it I said I wanted ice cream! Day and night, putting his house slippers on his ears, trying to sharpen his pencil in the dog's butt.

I love old people, these days I spend tons of time with them and love every minute. However, no 72 year old person is up to running this FK'ed up country in 2009. If you want to kill McCain, trip him or something, but don't put his crippled old ass on the White House treadmill and watch him fly apart like a cheap watch.

If he was the young lying McCain it might be different, but 5 years in a North Vietnamese prison might automatically qualify him to be President or not, but it sure as hell aged his body at least 10 years past his chronological age. I doubt he makes it to November and the Republicans are just cruel putting the old liar thru all this crap.

For those who think he's led an honorable life, get ready....your lasting final memory will be of a bumbling old man confused and stumbling, being tripped up by the press, making an ass of himself, in general like poking an old dog thru the cell door with a stick. Hey........probably a lot like it felt to be in a North Vietnamese prison for 5 years. Shameful!

The Republican Party is empty. They burned out their insides stealing and killing 24-7 for the last 8 years. Think of the mental midgets they ran in the primaries.....not a one worth electing dogcatcher. So they throw out a geezer with 1% of his career ahead of him. They give us their rubbish and expect us to be too stupid to figure it out.

Well....hah! Most of us figured it out! Jiggs up! Go away and come back in 20 years and we might be fool enough to try another Republican in the White House. You can bet I'll have a Democratic sticker on my potty chair at the home 2028. I'll never vote Republican again. If I get magically transported to Germany tonight....I promise to never vote the Nazi Party again either. Screw the Whigs too!

PS remember tonight to get out yer pins and poke your Pryor doll 40 times before you sleep and to point your bared ass at the O'Connor house tomorrow. Thank you.

Who knows what makes one qualified to be a President?
There have been a number of men who on paper look like they would make a wonderful President who ended up being lousy at it and others who had nothing really to recommend them who went on to be good at the job.
The right man (or woman) at the right time.
We never really know how someone is going to do until they are confronted with the day to day running of the country.

courtesy of my bro-
Take a soothing ride, fly thru an snow covered mountain range. Use your cursor for a pilot. Soothing, relaxing. on my name. Music by J M Jarre.

.

The bloody raw truth is that Dumbya Bush has our young kids and the rest of us Americans feeling as if he has "you know what" with no grease. We are so angered by it that we want anyone but a white man for president. This man has raped our repute with the world and ruin our standing. We look moronic choosing a dog that bark up the wrong tree for our leader that direct us to look for Osama bin-Laden in Iraq. We set out to get who attacked America but instead he kidnap the military and send it to get who he wanted and we sure got who he wanted in just a few weeks. Come September and it will be seven years and we still don't have bin-Laden who we all were gung-ho to send the military to get. I was for the war to get bin-Laden but I thought he would do it wisely like Clinton handled Serbia in which we bombed that place until they gave us Milosevic, likewise I thought we would bomb Afghanistan until they gave us bin-Laden and we wouldn't have to put a man on the ground.
Saddam Hussein was causing too much trouble around all the businesses that Bush and Cheney [the pig that walk on his hind legs} have around the Persian Gulf and they wanted him out of the way. The Arabs get the money for their oil, but Bush and Cheney are in the oil business also and that is in the business of pumping it out, packing it and getting it over here. When you elect an oilman to be president then don't think the greedy things ain't going to steer everything to work for his and his oilpeople's benefits and gains.
Yes indeedly Bush has us all feeling as if he has "you know what" to us with no grease and we want anyone but a white man for president and even if it is just for spite we intend to elect a non-white or a woman. Due to fear of another Bush doing such vast damage to this country then it will be a long time before white man rules again. In case you are wondering I am a white man but I am dastardly infuriated over what all Bush has done.

Jeez, Jake - I nod off reading anything longer than an article in the Readers Digest. I'll try to decipher your novel tomorrow and see if any of these press-clippings seem noteworthy.

Kind of interesting that, despite this laundry list of "accomplishments", none seem to have made the news - and noone in OB-wan's campaign broadcasts this, not even O-No himself - and you are the only one on this blog that seems to know about them.

Either O-oh is a very modest person who doesn't seek the limelight (gag, snort, chuckle) or he has a worthless PR machine.

At least you have minutely validated my first vote - but I still want to vote FOR someone, not vote AGAINST his opponent.

I still think he comes off as an empty stuffed shirt - and our adversaries don't see him as a force to be reckoned with. All talk. No bite. Or if you're a Texan, big hat, no cattle?

>>Or if you're a Texan, big hat, no cattle?<<

Or 5 years of war fighting "terrorisks" and no Osama. However, today a new Natural Resources policy is going into effect in Iraq. Major U.S.A. oil companies will receive the rights to "develop" Iraqi oil fields with NO-BID awards. Hmmm sounds like the cattle came home to Cheney's club.
However their Pimp-in-Chief still has no cattle but sports that big hat.

but I still want to vote FOR someone, not vote AGAINST his opponent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9y1vGxPVAA&

July 1, 2008
Georgia Judge Cites Carbon Dioxide in Denying Coal Plant Permit
By MATTHEW L. WALD

A judge in Georgia has thrown out an air pollution permit for a new coal-fired power plant because the permit did not set limits on carbon dioxide emissions.

Both opponents of coal use and the company that wants to build the plant said it was the first time a court decision had linked carbon dioxide to an air pollution permit.

The decision's broader legal impact was not clear, either for the plant, proposed to be built near Blakely, in Early County, Ga., or for others outside Georgia, but it signaled that builders of coal plants would face continued difficulties in the court system as well as with elected officials in many states.

In the ruling released late Monday afternoon, a state judge relied on a decision by the Supreme Court last year that carbon dioxide could be regulated as a pollutant. Carbon dioxide, which is colorless, odorless and not directly harmful to animals or plants, is not now regulated, and the Bush administration has signaled that it would not issue such regulations before the president leaves office.

But the judge, Thelma Wyatt Cummings Moore in Superior Court in Fulton County, Ga., said that federal air pollution control laws required pollution permits to cover all pollutants that could be regulated under the Clean Air Act, not just those for which there is "a separate, general numerical limitation." The case had been brought by the Sierra Club and a local environmental group, Friends of the Chattahoochee.

HP purchase of EDS gets government clearance
Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:22am EDT

BOSTON (Reuters) - Hewlett-Packard Co's planned $12.6 billion purchase of Electronic Data Systems Corp cleared U.S. government antitrust review, the companies said on Monday.

They are still waiting for approval from European regulators. EDS will hold a shareholder meeting July 31 to get clearance from its investors to seal the deal.

Buying EDS, one of the pioneers of the outsourcing of managed computer services, would vault HP to second place in the technology services industry behind International Business Machines Corp.

Barack Obama is a U.S. citizen--natural-born at least 35 years ago--and he's been a resident for at least 14 years. He's every bit as qualified as any other swingin' dick in the race, as it were.

Doesn't matter if either of these men is fit to be President. Theys what we got. As they say around Oaklawn...somebody's gonna win. Hopefully. Cheney permitting, someone will be elected.

I like Obama a whole lot. I like that he has opposed the war from the get-go. I think he will surround himself with intelligent and capable people who will work to strengthen our country and heal some serious injury.

I don't like McCain. I do not see him as strong enough to be President. Or smart enough. I don't see him as a uniter, if I may use that one. (And he SHORE ain't anything to look at.) I think he's getting too old for a job like this, and I honestly think he's a little nuts. I really mean no disrespect. There would be a valid reason if he were a little nuts. I just don't think he would be effective.

Could Obama successfully get us our of Iraq? Will he craft an economic plan that will put us back on the right track? Will he assure everyone can go to the doctor when they need to? Make education a priority? Will he do something about the f-king four dollar gas? A chicken in every pot?

Can he get us to feel better about being Americans?

I hope so.

Actually, Don, Obama has more experience than my favorite Republican president.
Abe Lincoln spent two years in the U.S. House and the rest of his political experience in the Illinois Legislature.
Of course, Abe also represented railroads. But since he was a lawyer, I don't hold that agin Honest Abe. He had to make a living.

After sleeping on the interesting question raised by Don, I arrived at the conclusion that the only true qualification beyond age and place of birth, is common sense, and we can't know about that until the candidate actually manages something - a business, a state government, or the federal government. Neither of these men have managed anything - so we vote not on qualifications, but on our gut reaction to what we perceive their 'common sense' to be.

McCain is re-running the 2000 campaign as he wished he had run it at the time. I can just hear him for the past 8 yrs - saying "I shudda said this," or "I shudda done that". We've all done that after an argument we think we lost.

Obama is a blank slate. I won't pretend to be enamored with his tactics, but he can be anything because he is still his own person. He isn't caught up in years of hate or anger at those who "done him wrong" and he doesn't have any regrets to 're-run'.

Of the two, it should be clear to every Democrat, that on policy matters Obama is better, even if occasionally only marginally (as with some of his recent reversals that I don't like). On potential - the sky is absolutely the limit with Barak Obama - he could be the best president this country has ever seen - we don't know.

McCain, whose life and mental health are so screwed up because of the painful way his POW sacrifice was quite literally thrown in his face and laughed at by GWB in 2000, has a block of cement tied to his feet with the number 43 engraved on it. McCain can't rise to the occasion because he's tied down by the ugly hateful past. The man who gleefully destroyed McCain's chance to be president still destroys McCain over and over again, everyday for the rest of his miserable life.

Well, DK, I think you'd find a goodly number of McCain supporters who know very litle about him and who would be hard-pressed to name one of his accomplishments. I'm afraid people make their choice for president on less than a minimum of evidence and study. Several people I know will vote for McCain simply because he's not black. Within limited circles, they are avowed racists and see Obama as nothing but a n----r.
Obama could have Jesus Christ as a running mate and they'd still vote against him because he's black.
Obama has two strong points that indicate he will be the winner. He is a good debater and speaker; he quickly deals with smears and dirty politics. The key to the election is not the right or the left, but the middle. Obama is doing what all winning presidential candidates have done in the past - appeal to the voters in the center.

Both McCain and Obama will have a laundry list of senate votes to use for them or against them. It remains to be seen how clean or washed some of these garments are when brought out. Not to say fashionable or given honest lighting to view.

This stuff about qualifying for the presidency went out the window in 2000. After President Shit for Brains and his entourage of EXPERIENCED buds demonstrated that EXPERIENCE doesn't mean diddly squat when it's combined with gross incompetence and a total disdain for the Constitution. In fact, DC experience ought to be a disqualifier after the likes of Rummy/Cheney and daddy's boy. So I don't give a damn about Obama's experience...I do care about McSame's experience. As a charter member of the Republican Good-Old-Boys' Club and a charter member of the Love-Dubya Club, his experience tells me that if elected the country will be experiencing the same Republican shit that Monkeyboy has been shoveling on us for seven years.

Given the last seven years...an inexperienced president will be a refreshing change.

I'm liking Wesley Clark more and more.

Will Obama's supporters please ask him to slow down his flip flopping...at least for a week or two. No, I don't like it; yes, I understand this middle-of-the-road crap...but he's giving me whiplash from the speed of his changes.

"Nothing clever about my phrasing - that was as plain as I can make it. McCain has a history of accomplishments to be measured by - some good and some bad. With McCain's history, you can use facts to justify supporting him OR to claim he is unqualified and oppose him..."--Don K.

So it's age that makes one experienced enough for the presidency?

Oh, wow, Norma. If there's an Academy Award category for political video clips, this one highlighting McInsane's inconsistencies should be the sure-fired winner. I'm sending that sucker all over the world today. Thanks for posting it.

A comment above about Obama's flip flopping is a common thread throughout the internet news/blogs. What we are seeing is exactly what Bill did, argue for change during the campaign but after the nomination is locked up, move to the center/right and pander to the conservatives. All that does is to legitimize conservative issues. And we get the same old shiat.

When you think about it, GWB II used fear as a weapon to help get elected/reelected and then rammed the conservative agenda down our throats. Obama has the chance to take us in the opposite direction because so many people, especially young voters, as Obama's campaign support has shown, desire to change the way things are done in the political world. Although I supported Hillary, I really admired Obama for being able to energize the young voters. We need those young people to become involved, to vote & to participate in the political world. Now Obama is doing exactly what he accused Hillary of; the danger is that if the electorate perceives this as his true path and I think it is, I would expect many to just throw up their hands and stay home, which is exactly what the repugs want!

Don Kehotay's post beginning this thread, "How about starting with a list of specific accomplishments that qualify Obama to be president," jumped out. I and many others on this blog have learned what such posts are REALLY about -- and it's not to find out information.

Unless Don is inexcusably lazy and wants somebody else to do his research for him, or unless he's missing some vital limbs and organs, he's as capable as anybody else of researching Obama's background and accomplishments.

But that's not what he wants.

He just wants to pick a fight and argue. In the same way Chasv just likes to get a rise out of people.

Jake provides a long list of Obama's accomplishments. Don's response? Attack the messenger again.

In other words, argue.

Of course, Don's "argument" would get him immediately removed from the debate team in high school because it's nothing more than an ad hominem attack.

It doesn't matter what or how many facts you give Don. That's not what he wants. He just wants to argue.

I normally don't bother with such posts, since I recognize them for what they are.

But Don's setup, Jake's thorough and objective response, and Don's childish reply are so transparent they're a perfect textbook illustration of how this time-wasting game is played.

Several people I know will vote for McCain simply because he's not black. - Posted by: Jake da Snake
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And several people I know will vote for Obama simply because he IS black. Apparently it's a way of demonstrating they are "enlightened" (the white ones) and the black ones, well, racism isn't limited to ol' whitey. . .

So it's age that makes one experienced enough for the presidency?-Posted by: Zelda
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Zelda:

Please activate the logic-checker on your computer - I never mentioned "age" as a factor - I was saying that McCain has a history of accomplishments that are easily ferreted out and recognized - basic things like having his name on bills that have been passed - and because of this, he has provided ammunition for those that support him AND fodder for those that oppose him - this sword cuts both ways.

But Oblarney? Ever hear of a Kennedy-Obama Act (or pick any other Senator's name)? other than Jake's press puff-piece that he found, noone can point to anything substantial that Obeanie has ever done.

That was my point - Experience - Accomplishments. They can help you or they can destroy you. Age was not mentioned anywhere in my post.

Please add the logic-checker icon to your toolbar.

NormaB:

Although I think you got some points right, please read my comment to Zelda - you are missing the same tool on your computer. With regard to your ** comments**:

**I . . . have learned what such posts are REALLY about -- and it's not to find out information.**
NB: Is this a reflection of how YOU post or how OTHERS post?

**Unless Don is inexcusably lazy and wants somebody else to do his research for him . . . he's as capable as anybody else of researching Obama's background and accomplishments.**
NB: Not gonna argue with that. I am lazy. Saves me time if somebody does the research for me. At the office, I pay staff members to do this. Here it's free. Duh.

**But that's not what he wants. He just wants to pick a fight and argue.**
NB: No, I don't like fighting or arguing. I do like reasoned debate because I can learn from others' knowledge and experience - and, perish the thought, sometimes it changes my position.

**Jake provides a long list of Obama's accomplishments. Don's response? Attack the messenger again.**
NB: Attack? Attack Again?Jeez Louise, I thought I was affirming what Jake provided - He just doesn't realize that between my ADD and short attention span that I lose interest and, oh forget it . . .

**Don's "argument" [is] nothing more than an ad hominem attack.**
NB: You might want to look up "ad hominem" in the dictionary - or to save time, maybe explain to me who I adhominemed. . .

**But Don's setup, Jake's thorough and objective response, and Don's childish reply are so transparent they're a perfect textbook illustration of how this time-wasting game is played.**
NB: I agree that Jake's responses are usually quite thorough (definitely more thorough than mine) and objective (well, there's room for some disagreement there). But, Childish - Me? Childish? Well, lady - Sticks and stones may break my bones but. . . Oops. Sorry.

If you read this, I guess I tricked you into wasting more time, didn't I?

DK,

i've seen you do better and this certainly isn't one to add to that category. this measurement of accomplishments is merely comparing apples and oranges. also, you're also resorting to name-calling which I haven't seen you stoop to in quite some time.

the real presidential race and discussion is in their plans for the future. your spiel about accomplishments has relatively little importance to the selection of our next president. these facts can be manipulated by both sides and spun until they blur.

maybe you too have "puff" pieces about McCain. maybe some others will toss simplistic name twists back at you. maybe you will see that giving an answer won't satisfy those whose mind is already made up but who pretend to be otherwise.

maybe you're just wasting our time. or distracting us from the future plans we really need to look at and consider.

maybe you've lost your touch a bit.

like I said, I've seen you do better. you seem to be vindictive and spiteful in the posts here. it saddens me. I used to think you were one of the calmest and most level-headed conservatives on this blog. maybe you'll get it back. it made you a much better debater.

as to the racism, it certainly is there on both sides, no denying that. let's hope those people cancel each other out completely and saner minds prevail.

if there is one point that we all should consider, it is this: be very skeptical about all the information we're getting about these two candidates. Question the motives of trhose who try to sway you with meager portions of information and fear-based reasons.

And, keep your medication well-controlled.

Jake:

You must be right - I must really be missing my ability to make a point. Otherwise, I gotta disagree with you here, my friend (but not about losing my touch - that's always kinda iffy).

I am not puffing or shilling for McCain - I have said as clearly as I could that the fact that he has accomplishments CAN HURT HIM IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT HE ACCOMPLISHED!

But Mr. Obama's (there, is that better?) lack of accomplishments makes him a huge question mark. I merely asked a simple question - Does he have a resume? Apparently the answer seems to be . . . no.

Although you found some claims of what he has done - noone seems to be publicizing them - not even him - why not? Does that mean the claims are overstated and he is trying to keep them out of the examining spotlight?

If accomplishments don't mean a lot, why do "big-time" football teams only seek out coaches with a proven record - they only settle for unknowns when proven leaders aren't available or when no Leader wants to be saddled with their messy program. (Right, Frank? I mean, Jeff?).

Apparently accomplishments matter - at least in small things, like leading a football team - but not in being the leader of the free world.

Already getting meds changed next month. Let me know if it seems to help.

You keep saying no list but that's not the truth. One was provided.

Bobby Knight has a great list of accomplishments if you only look at wins & losses. Same with Robert E. Lee who fought against the USA.

Your reasoning has huge holes in it. Better use that logic checker you talked about.

I think I acknowledged your "list".

Bobby Knight - good professionally, bad model privately (and sometimes not so private) - Probably shared his playbook with President Clinton.

General lee - great leader and good moral model - Even these attributes don't guarantee success.

DK,

I can just as easily giv you a list of people who have accomplishments of noteworthy caliber but who one wouldn't trust to higher positions of leadership:

Pete Rose, Douglas MacArthur, George Patton, Frank Sinatra, Randy Moss, Jimmy Swaggert, Madonna, Shirley MacLaine, Pat Roberson, Pat Buchanan.

Think about Hillary Clinton - more accomplishments and experience compared to Obama. Yet, the voters chose Obama.

The biggest accomplishment is winning the voters and that Obama has done. You can't ignore that because in the end that is the only thing that counts. I would make a Tiger Woods analogy but it probably is too early in the game for such comparisons.

Remember Casey Stengel? A really so-so ball player. Became a helluva manager. Anyway, that's another list which anyone can easily add to. Maybe Harry Truman......

DK
You are straining every time you use the word "list." Not once have you discussed their relative merits or demerits. Please don't resort to such trickery. It fools no one other than yourself. It's a list without the "quotes." If you can't address it, then say so.

Jacob

Jake:
Well, I called it a "list", or how'bout a *list*, but the compilation was wordy enough to be more like a compendium. I have already confessed that the accusation of being "lazy" is a fitting label for me regarding digging in to this topic, so I have printed out your manuscript and I will peruse it over the 4th weekend between chilled dishes of fresh homemade ice cream, ensconced in a lawn chair under the shade tree between a delightful series of naps.

Have a good 4th!
DK

Sounds wonderful, Herr Keyhotay!!

I've got some wid blackberries me and the missus picked a few weeks back. They're frozen and make a delicious smoothie when mixed with your ice cream, some moo juice, and turned in the blender until smooth and creamy. Will enjoy the 4th as much as possible.

What would you get if you crossed George Washington with cattle feed?

The Fodder of Our Country!

Take care DK

Jake

Jake:
I hope you aren't sitting by the phone waiting for the call from the Comedy Club. . . It might be a while . . .
DK