Arkansas Blog

I am praying (no negative comments from my fellow Democrats necessary, I am still praying) for his family. We all know how hard it is to suffer a loss of a loved one, but in a manner that is this horrific....I can't imagine.

What was a worse nightmare is found in the reading of comments last night on this topic. I am ashamed! To try and bring politics into this so soon, and to put others down for their belief...not even religious belief, but belief in general as if it is up to any of you to judge others on how they deal with death. If someone says "their prayers are with someone" it is not up to you to question that. I knew Harold fairly well, and met Bill a couple of times. Anyone know if Bill attended a church? If so then DOUBLE shame on any of you who took this time to judge someone else's desire to prayer.

And to then bring politics into this? Yes! It must be a far right winged Republican, those Democrats and those AR Baptist crazies!!! (He went waving a gun in the AR Baptist Convention office moments after). The last comment page was filled with vile, hateful messages, mostly aimed at how vile, hateful Republicans are. Perhaps we should all take time to grieve for the loss and pray/send positive thoughts/keep in our thoughts the family and close friends who have just lost a great man, instead of taking the moment to put down our opponents.

DHO: I agree with your comments. Once I read the "if" comment (see below) at the start of that particular thread, I just fast-forwarded through the rest and moved on-

" . . .this is an enormous wake up call for people to stop spewing the garbage that "Democrats are destroying the country" because Fox News and Rush may think its entertaining but when you spew hate filled propaganda clearly some nut jobs take it very seriously."

Apparently this commenter just ignores the comparable comments made by the other party (and the same type of bull**** comments posted on this blog), that reverses the roles.

What a nightmare for both families.

Note to self - live each day like it might be your last. This could be that day.

Why would you drive from Searcy to Conway to work at Target? I know they pay decently well for retail, but that's not a short or easy drive....? I know, I'm questioning one of the lesser issues of this situation. Nothing makes any sense in this one......

Although there's little doubt that political/religious sickness has steadily risen in our society since the my-way-no-way ethical driven GOP party took the helm but until more information is available lashing out with unsubstantiated comments at this juncture would serve little purpose.

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing, except when it isn't. Limbaugh and Hannity should not be forced off the air, but surely it is way past time for them to consider their words and their possible effects. I've often wished the left had a Limbaugh and a Hannity to dominate the airwaves for a while and lo and behold, MSNBC gave us one - Olbermann. I loved it for a time, even rolled around in the pigsty of his broadcasts till I felt them directed at me and my inability to agree with him. I then saw the ugliness of it, but only because it became personal. Now I write regularly and ask that our own version of Limbaugh and O'Reilly be advised to tone it down or shut up - whichever works.

All you grow with hate speech is hate and I agree that sometimes here on this blog we get a little full of ourselves and venture into the hate business, but it can't, even in our wildest imagination, have the affect that the Limbaughs, O'Reillys and Olbermanns have on our society because we are mostly talking to ourselves.

I think the name calling and hate speech are much like profanity - just the lazy person's way of expressing themselves. It's a lot easier to tell someone to 'fuck off' than to explain why they are wrong. Will Gwatney's unnecessary death cause us to change our ways? I rather doubt it - but maybe it will encourge us to at least try to explain what we think and mean before we give up and tell the most dense among us what assholes they are and to just STFU.

Yeah, there is a little anger and frustration spewed on this site as well. We all need to guard our words a little. I know democracy has often been contentious but it has also occasionally been an effort where people who disagree work to find some common ground and work on those issues that benefit everyone.

Our politicians, I won't call them leaders, have actually worked hard to divide us with hot button issues in order to control the vote, not to mention distract us while business interests run the government. This year proves that it is a fools game that they cannot control well themselves. We used to think that education was the foundation of democracy and journalism was a watchdog to the powerful. They have successfully dimished both. It is time to break up the media monopolies, return to the fairness doctrine and the neighborhood school.

When something like this happens, the first thing I want to know is how could an obviously sick person focus all this rage and frustration on one person. The randomness of this act reminds me of 1980 when John Lennon was gunned down outside his apartment. It was a time when the public knew big changes were coming (for better or for worse) and then this one event altered the course of so many lives and also the path of a culture.

An event like this speaks to the inability of some people to find a "gray" area. Everything is hot or cold. Chevy or Ford. Coke or Pepsi. McDonald's or Burger King. Republican or Democrat. Live or die. I think many people become so consumed with propaganda that they begin to live in an alternate universe far removed from the things necessary to live their daily lives. They get too much information about things that will never affect them directly yet they have come to believe that they are an intricate part of one side or the other. Good vs. Evil. Black vs. White. Perhaps they cannot see a third way. A third way is often the way out of a dire situation.

It's amazing to me how people can live right next door to each other and never have a conversation. Community intimacy is replaced by the constant hum of one-way communication via the television or the customized blogs that give only the news we want to read. Perhaps this event will remind us that senseless acts happen everyday to people we don't know. It just becomes a blip on the evening news. Maybe it will remind us to that every single murder affects us all more than we really know.

The first thing I want to know when something like this happens is why do we still sacrifice our best and brightest at the altar of the almighty gun manufacturers. We spend so much time scanning each other in airports for bombs or box cutters and we are much more likely to fall to a bullet from some gun in the hands of a fellow American.

"Seeing Gray in a World of Black and White" will start at www.qqumc.org

Another video on the "Graying." Click the link.

CiCi,

I'm not a gun nut. Most people call me a radical liberal. That said: Last night I watched the coverage of yesterday's shooting. The next news story involved a man in Pine Bluff stabbing another man to death with a pool cue. People always find creative ways to kill each other. Who's to say that if this guy didn't use a gun yesterday, he might have snapped a week later ala Timothy McVay with a Ryder truck filled with fertilizer or hi-jacking a plane and flying it into a building. I'm sure there's somebody out there right now trying to come up with the next big way to kill people. The aim of the government should be finding out: WHY?

=================================================================

Nobody is going to convince me that this was just totally random.
Bill Gwatney is dead because of his position in politics.
Some of you don't want to admit that hate based politics led to this but it did.
Gwatney was not part of that hate based politics but he was a victim of it.
Does anyone really think this hate-filled guy was a Democrat or a liberal?
We all know what happened, but some are afraid to admit it.
Some don't want to face the fact that they are partly responsible for the circumstances leading to this.
You can't stir up hatred among people without consequences.

=================================================================

It was the only ticket to this guy's 15 minutes of fame. Other whackjobs are almost certainly watching TV and dreaming of their immortality.

Instead of coming after my gun, why not ignore the constitution by banning the media from giving out names and showing photos of these nuts so others won't be enticed to do the same. If the names and faces of Lee Harvey Oswald, the Columbine killers, Mohammed Atta just vanished into nothing so might the motivation to copy them.

I am sorry for the Gwatney family and friends, his co-workers and law enforcement officers who put their lives on the line to stop this idiot as well as their children who could have also lost a parent.

It was a bad day.

There are other innocent victims scarred for life by this shocking, senseless tragedy. They, too, are in my thoughts. I speak of ADP staff members and others who were in the building on what had been a peaceful, ordinary August morning in Arkansas's capital city. How could they know that seconds later, their friend and colleague Bill Gwatney would be inexplicitly and cruelly shot down by a madman? And before their very eyes.

Until the end of their time, these unfortunate friends and neighbors of ours will hear the deafening blasts of those dreadful shots; the screams; the sight of the killer making his hurried exit; their ensuing chaotic rush to aid their wounded chairman; the wail of the sirens; and the sight of their colleague's body, stripped almost nude by EMTs trying desperately to save his life, being hustled into an ambulance. May they, like the Gwatney family, somehow find grace, forgiveness, and peace.

I understand the argument, Roderick, that a person bent on killing will use whatever he has at hand to accomplish the act. I come from a family of hunters and gun rights activists. The simple fact, however, is that this crazed man could have taken out the entire office at the Democratic Party operation, rather than just Mr. Gwatney, had he decided to do so. You can kill with a pool cue, a knife or your bare hands, but victims have no chance at the hands of a madman with a weapon that can fire before you even decide on a method of self-defense. If this man hadn't had a gun, Gwatney would at least have had a 50-50 chance.

Sorry, I DO care why this happened and believe it is very important for us all, but I am struck over and over again at our quick defense of a weapon designed to kill human beings.

==================================================================

If this was not related to politics then would someone offer another plausible explanation?
Why else would a guy travel 30 miles and ask to see the chairman of a political party and then kill him?

==================================================================

I don't see gun control in rural America being viable in the foreseeable future. I can't imagine a circumstance that is going to change many minds for at lease another generation or two. There are issues that can be promoted that will make for a healthier and more progressive society that is likely to be less violent, less stressful. Better health care for those in need and more and better education are two. Those won't be easy based on the current political climate. We need to start by raising the level of the discussion.

Left and Right both need to expect much more candor and detail from their leaders and not be so easily distracted by the cultural and the emotional issues which are going nowhere.

We don't know why people do the things they do. The people themselves might not know. It's possible he was targeting someone with easy access but with a big name. We don't know that he wouldn't have gone to Republican headquarters had he not found Mr. Gwatney in the office. We do know that he went to the Arkansas Baptist Convention and pointed his gun at an employee. What the ABC and Democratic Headquarters have in common I don't know but are you prepared to say it was religiously motivated as well as politically motivated? Ultimately, I think you're looking for a rational explanation to an irrational act. Also, his sister lived in Sheridan so it's possible Little Rock was just a stop on his way and not 30 miles out of his way. It's all too early to know for sure. We may never know.

Guns are here for good. They are never going away. Just the reality. Here, as I see it, are the facts of life since time began:

Humans are complicated with very complex wiring and who knows what crazy shit in some of our DNA and synapses that goes off kilter in some of us.

Occassionbally, due to this fact, shit--very very bad shit-- happens.
It will always be that way.

You can try and find concrete cause and effect reasons but it is, in my opinion, usually delusional, non productive and perhaps provides some false sense of solace and control to think you can figure this shit out and some day prevent it. Or you feel better because you can cast blame where there really isn't any to be fairly doled out.

From my take on it tragedy--senseless, random, off-the-wall, tragedy happens. Part of the human condition as we know it.

Gwatney was unfortunately for him and his loved ones the person on the end of it yesterday. Every day, almost every where, some other people are on the bad end of that deal.

Reasons? Maybe because our "wiring"--our basic circuitry-- is about as complex and able to go haywire and get twisted and dark and angry and murderous as anything ever created. People lose their shit in ways that cause bad things--very horrible senseless, things.

I don't get all the conspiracy theorists and cause-and effectuating going on with stuff like this in general. I never have.

Every few hours someone somewhere in our big country is going over the edge. Yesterday it was close to home. Other days it is close to home but you don't hear about to the same degree because of the circumstances and the profile of this one.

It's called the human condition. It ain't going anywhere.

I can only imagine how beat up I'll get for that common sense view point! Common sense will piss off the masses every time!

Right on, Fletch. I was just about to post this when I read your comment. I echo your sentiments:

Guns aren't going away. They just aren't. Some one could assassinate Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, George Bush and John McCain tomorrow with a gun and I seriously doubt any of our politicians would rush to overhaul gun rights/laws.

No one disagrees that what happened yesterday was completely senseless and horrific. I think very few people disagree that this will continue to happen again and again and again- to people both famous and infamous. The whole thing is f*cked up, sad and tragic. We all want answers that we may never get. I mean- just look at how far we've come since The Columbine tragedy in Colorado- - - not very far at all.

Humans will continue to inflict violence and harm on each other whether or not they have motives for as long as I am around- that I am sure of. Children will be murdered at hand of gun violence in public schools. People will remain sick in a sick, disaffected, apathetic society. Wish it were different, but is isn't.

As a woman who never touched a gun until her late twenties, I'll say I'm glad as hell that I know how to use one should I ever have to defend myself in my own home. I don't like guns and how people use them against one another, but at the same time, you can bet your ass that I'll be the first to pull the trigger if I was ever being attacked (in my home). I feel safer knowing that I have that option. But I also know that someone could shoot me randomly as I walked down the street and that would be that. It's the shitty reality we have to live with.

MJD, you're asking for a rational explanation of an irrational act. "Politics" is also not a reason to drive 30 minles and in cold blood kill a man whom you apparently have never met.

There is no plausible explanation (in the Wetsern Rational sense) for why a 50-year-old retail worker with no criminal record goes off on his co-workers one morning and quits/gets fired. There is no plausible explanation after that for why he doesn't just calm down and take his resume to WalMart in Searcy, Cabot, Jacksonville, Sherwood, etc. and get a new job that day.

This guy snapped. Maybe we'll find a link between him and Bill that goes beyond driving past the dealerships and maybe we won't. Maybe we'll find a link rooted in some sick version of politics. I'm sorry for his family that they too are victims. I'm not sorry in the vein of justice that he cost himself his life. I do hate that we probably won't ever have his twisted explanation of what was going through what passed for his mind yesterday morning. But in a very real sense it doesn't matter because the explanation could never make any sense.

CiCi You don't understand at all. Don't you know it is cleaner to shoot someone than it is to use a knife, baseball bat, golf club or a car that makes an ugly mess with blood splattered everywhere?
This guy didn't mean to make a mess and aparently he didn't want to get caught with blood all over his clothes.
How and why did this man target Gwatney? That's what I don't know yet.
By the way CiCi if it were not for guns and other weapons that we have we'd not be able to get on here and speak our minds like you do !

I agree, MJD, if an irate, recently let-go employee driving from Conway to LR to shoot the Chairman of the state's Democratic Party doesn't reek of politics, I'm not sure what would.

Every time some one well known dies the same crap happens on this blog...and I'm sure elsewhere too. Someone (usually more than one) decides that someone isn't meeting their standard of political correctness...or bereavement...of respect...of blog protocol (whatever the hell that is) and then lectures about proper decorum ensue. I hate that crap...makes me want to...never mind. But that's just me. It's always sad to lose another human...but that doesn't mean we've all got to get on the same page and ignore everything other than the Officially Approved version of things. There are lessons to be learned from violent deaths...on all sides.

And, this is a news blog...a liberal one, to boot.

I noticed a few things yesterday -

Johnson had particular hostility toward someone in the human resources department at Target, based on the graffiti.

Several people have found online court records about Johnson sustaining a head injury years ago at a previous job, and seeking workman's comp.

The only other Google thing I found about him was by searching his address - 127 Janet Lane. The Google cache contained an old website, using the account name 'crewdog'. It was something about a rifle. Unfortunately, the full article could not be retrieved.

Finally, I'll note that some of the comments on yesterday's thread were deplorable.

What some see as deplorable others may see as plorable. Just saying.

Those looking for a forum of dignified (and censored?) respect in blog threads should probably go to the wake or service instead. That is the place for that. Blogs are dishing it. And good for them. Better to bring the inner, usually secret workings of twisted minds into the light of day. Look at it that way.

My father said it's not the words you know that hurt, it's the words you don't know, that never make it to the light of day, that will get ya in the end.

On another note, you know it's a big news day in Arkansas when the eagerly awaited speaker line-up for the TouchDown Club gets bumped from the lead story.

Ouch. I'm a little ornery today.

It's always struck me as funny that our society won't show a woman's bare breast on prime time TV but we'll show lots of people being killed.

Sex (which creates life) is forbidden while violence (which creates death) is glorified.

This is the American Way of the Cowboy.

People don't kill others for no reason people. The reason may be crazy and defy logic, but the guy had a reason. This was not a random shooting as is the case in a mall shooting. The victim was sought out.

Do all our kids get a Mul-Lu-Gin.

And not to digress, but someone please tell me how Lu Hardin gets to keep his job. How does that happen? Have we all just completely lost all sense of right and wrong when it counts, where it counts?

I'm going to have my kids invoke the Lu Hardin precedent the first time they get caught doing something that egregiously dishonest--maybe plagiarizing--at school--especially if they stay here for University. Every kid should now get to use the Lu Mulligan once The state ledge should take this up, make it law. Let's call it the Mul-Lu-gin Initiated Act of 2008. Oh, of course, they will have to show they did some good things and are well liked and had their friends say so--because that gives them the free pass to use the Mul-Lu-gin. Shame on the Trustees at UCA. Just shame on them all. They blew it. Just completely failed to do the right thing--the necessary thing. Just felt like getting that out there in the lull. Like I said. I'm a little ornery today. But I feel like I do my best thinking when I'm feeling this way.

Every student at UCA can get two Mul-Lu-gins as a bonus.

Sorry. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

CiCi has it right.

Yes, guns are an important part of our heritage; yes, one can kill with other weapons; and yes, there is a very strong and wealthy lobby that makes it politically difficult to even discuss changes in gun laws. However, the fact remains that we place stricter regulations on one's ability to drive a car (an instrument not intended for killing anything) than we do on handguns (designed ONLY for killing our fellow humans). It really chaps me that the gun lobby has succeeded in wedding "guns" (meaning ALL guns) with "hunting." If not for that connection, I think the lobby would weaken substantially. Only an idiot would find it appealing to hunt game with a handgun (if you want something more challenging than a modern rifle, try a bow) or an assault weapon (taking things in the other direction on the "challenging" scale). Why can't we regulate these weapons more tightly without all the hunters feeling threatened about losing their shotguns and rifles? Does 'chasv' REALLY believe that we retain our rights in this country at the end of a puny .38 when the Powers That Be have rocket-propelled grenades, laser-guided missiles, and tactical nuclear weapons, all delivered with supersonic jets? I've always found that argument to be absolutely ludicrous. And Rod, I voted you for governor, but I am disappointed to hear that you find no meaningful difference between a broken pool cue and a firearm. I have little doubt that Mr. Gwatney-- perhaps even his female coworkers-- could have fought off Tim Johnson's pool cue with no more injury than perhaps a fleshwound.

I'm left with the conclusion that churning out millions of man-killers a year and releasing them into a population with very high levels of mental illness, mostly for the sake of the almighty buck, is a situation that makes perfect sense sheerly out of circularity. That is, it could ONLY be done by "a population with very high levels of mental illness"!

What we need is a pill to stop crazy whacko-psycho-types from acting on their impulses. I think Big Pharma should actively go after this now that we have 7 different Erectile Dysfunction pills (I know there are 7 because I read not because I need).

They could call it Amagent or something. Most whackos that resort to sicko rage-crazy killings are men I'm pretty sure so this seems like a good idea to me.

You take one as soon as you feel murderous rage coming on but it would have to be fast acting. Surely we could come up with that. There's a big market for it.

"no meaningful difference between a broken pool cue and a firearm."

I'm sorry that you deduced this from my point above. Banning guns is like banning liquor. The people that least need guns will still have them just like the people that least need a drink will still get a drink and also profiteer. The primary problem our government has with existing laws is ENFORCEMENT. Make laws until you are blue in the face, without enforcement and JUSTICE FOR ALL these laws mean nothing. If you don't want mercury in the fish, enforce the clean water act. If you don't want election fraud, enforce election law. What I was hoping one might glean from my post is that the argument isn't about guns, it's about human interaction. If you ban handguns tomorrow, the black market will come alive in ways you cannot imagine. Ask any lawyer in Little Rock how much banning marijuana has done for keeping it out of people's glove boxes.

Dude

Never keep your pot in the glove box in Arkansas during the summer. Dries it out something terrible. Renders it completely inert. One scorching day and even the best Mexican Wowey Wowey is done for.

Agreed, Rod Bryan.

No one is banning guns in my lifetime. Period. It just won't happen.

Banning guns doesn't resolve the symptoms of people who want to kill others.

Rod Bryan for Governor. Better yet. Senate!!

We should all start a grass roots movement for Rod for Senate. Rod could beat Blanche IMO. Watch it though Rod. Don't directly respond to my post about pot. Someone may archive it and bring it out later.

JenJens

You want to get rid of the leading symptom/cause of people wanting to kill others. Just ban marriage!

I still believe each of us has a choice to either add to hatred and violence, or to choose a different path and to add to love and compassion for humans on this earth. Talking heads on tv, right or left wing, need to generate hype and catch people's attention. To me that's entertainment, somewhat in the vein of pro wrestling being outrageous entertainment, but being made to look like a sports competition. People who have a hard time distinguishing reality from that tv world, as well as those with essentially have no life of their own can and do get caught up in that hype of outrageous entertainment and try to live as if that is the real world. What worries me is when the rest of us "normal" people start living in that world, by how we treat people that we disagree with, by how we express our views. I don't get paid by some telecom company to elicit people to respond to me, to get ratings, to attract advertisers; therefore, I don't have to attack people verbally or otherwise whom disagree with my views. I don't have to find more and more outrageous ways of 'dissing all these groups that I disagree with. But is it just me, or a lot us "normal" people getting caught up in that same talking head type mentality? Folks, if so, that's not a good thing, whatever religio-political group you happen to belong to.

On the gun thing, I agree, that guns are here to stay, partly because we like to kill efficiently and mostly because arms and ammunition is a ginormous industry in this country. Some of the saddest deaths of some of our most promising people in the modern era have come about because of relatively cheap, accessible firearms. I know deep down we all probably believe that there is no effective way to advance freedom around this world or protect our stuff and our families without all these weapons and violence, but sometimes I just wonder what it would be like to see us try.

Deaths like yesterday bring all these issues right onto the table in front of us and sometimes during times like this maybe it's easier to lash out at each other and argue and nitpick than to do anything more constructive, I guess. Whether you pray for Mr. Gwatney's family, or the family left behind by Mr. Johnson- or whether you don't; I bet all of those grieving, hurting people would like to have people to listen to them, to hold them, and to help them. I hope they get that, along with all the other people just like them on this big old planet. And, eventually it comes down to people just like you and me to do those things for the people around us.

Sounds like in this case the guy may possibly not have been getting proper health care, because of our horrible system. If he was upset at losing his job, perhaps that is one of the reasons.

Could he possibly have run out of any meds he was taking, because he lost his job, and just flipped out? If so, this could be two more deaths laid at the door of those that have stopped universal health care with mental health care included. Notice that it's not just the one WITHOUT health care that died. All of you that have health care should think about that some. Everyone having good health care benefits EVERYONE.

Lot's of speculation, not many answers.

I'm happy to see the "tone" of most posts today are gentler - of course it's MORNING... There are SO MANY kernels of insight and intelligence here - too many to attribute, but the most recent that I can fully endorse is (as usual) Zelda's. This is a tragedy to many, and to me and my wife so was our dog having to be put down on Saturday - NOT to compare, just make a point about "perspective." This blog is for FREELY sharing our thoughts/beliefs/opinions...PERIOD.

Here is my take on the "larger meaning/lessons." Regardless of your political/religious bent, there is one immutable FACT regarding societal "problems" - they have to be acknowledged as such before there is the slightest hope of "solving" them. For example, rather than engaging in a gun control fanaticism vs. NRA fanaticism (or abortion vs. choice, drug warriors vs. common sense, "religious" vs. secularist...) what always chaps my butt on this blog is the inevitable "best country in the world," "love it or leave it," testosterone-fueled, chest-pounding, provincialism/nationalism bordering on xenophobia that "the others" ultimately resort to when their points are challenged/disproved.

Any one of the numerous suggestions about motive, reason, etc. for THIS senseless tragedy in one way or another contribute to (and are not THE cause of) this FACT: We are the MOST VIOLENT nation/society on the planet, and THAT is a problem.

Until we and our "leaders" can coalesce around that, it will never be solved, and we just heard PMbSfBBL (who is unquestionably the biggest killer in the "free" world) say to the entire world "I don't see American as having problems." IF not praying in school, or Bill Clinton's dalliance with the chubette (and/or others), or Janet Jackson's nipple which NO ONE SAW was the beginning of the downfall of America as most of the country seem to believe, WTF is THAT?
|

"I don't see America..."

Larry,

So then, if i understand you correctly, we are all in agreement I think. Janet Jackson's nipple, that lone beautiful, ever so protruding nipple, on her perfectly shaped, surgically enhanced beautiful, ebony, pert-upturned breast, which I did not see live but have on TIVO to watch forever, is to blame for most of the ills that plague our society.

I agree. I've always said as much to anyone that would listen.

From KTHV's website minutes ago:

"A search of Timothy Dale Johnson's home turned up 14 guns, a bottle of anti-depressants, his last will and testament and a Post-It note that bore his victim's last name and a telephone number, sheriff's documents show."
|

AND:

"...and Wednesday's search of Johnson's home turned up two sets of keys for vehicles from Gwatney car lots. "
|

Good night...that's quite an arsenal listed on the update...

Since bloggers are usually the old farts who used to sit at the end of the bar, declaiming on everything they didn't know anything about, this blog demonstrated yesterday that it's too bad there's not a bartender to say, "you've had enough, I'm calling a cab for you."

Good point Cas: the old farts AND IABL trying to turn them on - NOT a porn site, however... ;>)

OOPS - "turn US on..."
|

How about putting this guy on the list:

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-kQJTd8EzbqIsAgNQfdILRpQHRFk-?cq=1

"One Scumbag Down. I`m sure more of the same will follow in the coming months. Good riddance to all of these hacks that have run this nation into the gutter. I`d buy that guy a 6 pack if the pigs hadnt killed him."

Yes, Steve, by all means, put the sorry s.o.b. on the list. We know they're out there, but it's difficult to believe the depth of their ignorance and desperation.

Nobody is going to convince me that this was just totally random.
Bill Gwatney is dead because of his position in politics.-MJD
********
Always good to hear from the open minds out there.

After I got caught up on this situation last night, I happened over to ESPN and read Tuesday Morning Quarterback. It just so happened that he had some article space devoted to guns, commenting on the Supreme Court's recent decision about handguns in DC. I couldn't help thinking how right he is. If Johnson had entered the DPA office with a shotgun, someone would have said "hey buddy, go put that up somewhere" or raised some kind of alarm. With his concealed handgun, there was no warning....

From http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/080812
Now consider the recent Second Amendment decision, in which the Supreme Court threw out the District of Columbia's ban on handgun ownership. The Court said handguns may not be prohibited outright, but firearm possession may be subject to reasonable regulation. And off we go -- the majority opinion does not spell out what regulations are reasonable. Now city councils, state legislatures and state and federal judges will spend years trying to mind-read the justices' cryptic pronouncements, in order to guess what kinds of gun rules are constitutional.

Considering the importance of the case, TMQ was bothered that Justice Antonin Scalia, who wrote the 5-4 majority opinion, seemed to have poor knowledge of firearms. Scalia went into an extended rhapsody about how handguns are the ideal weapon for home defense because, among other things, a pistol is "easier to use for those without the upper-body strength to lift and aim a long rifle, and can be pointed at a burglar with one hand while the other hand dials the police." You try pointing a handgun at a burglar with one hand and dialing the phone with the other! Especially considering that the gun better be in your "handed" hand! Why does Scalia think rifles are too hard to lift? The Savage Arms American Classic hunting rifle, a typical long gun, weighs seven pounds.

Scalia's valentine to the handgun ignores the fact that the shotgun is generally considered the best home-defense firearm. Shotguns are visually scary and have a deterrent effect; they do not need to be precisely aimed (it is amazingly easy to miss with a handgun); if stolen, they are not likely to be used in street crime because they cannot be concealed. When living in Pakistan, I owned a shotgun to protect the house, and learned firsthand that the visual-deterrent aspect of the shotgun should not be overlooked, since the ideal outcome of a confrontation is to show a weapon but never fire it. In modern society, handguns are used in law enforcement, as military sidearms and for crime. Shotguns and rifles are primarily used for hunting, marksmanship and home defense, and hardly ever in crime. Whether the District of Columbia handgun ban reduced the murder rate is far from clear. But as a policy matter, for legislators to want handguns out of homes, but allow rifles and shotguns in homes, makes sense, passing the Constitutional test of firearm ownership that is "well regulated." Maybe if the Supreme Court understood guns, the justices would see that.
The Court's Second Amendment decision did make clear that states can continue to restrict "dangerous and unusual" firearms. Aren't all guns dangerous? "Dangerous and unusual" is the legal standard employed to ban private ownership of machine guns and other fully automatic weapons - which is weird, since "unusual" is defined as firearms not common in society, and the same standard could be employed to ban flintlocks and the blunderbuss. But the fact that even Scalia voted to uphold the precedent that allows restriction of "dangerous and unusual" firearms points to a way to understand the Second Amendment dilemma -- namely, by figuring out which firearms are "dangerous."

Whether owning a gun makes you safer, or it places you in more danger, is hotly debated. This famous study says a handgun kept at home is 12 times more likely to kill someone who lives in the home (usually by suicide) than to kill a criminal. There are problems with studies like this, which consider only instances when guns are fired. Gun use for deterrence needs to be factored in; my guess is that in defense-against-crime situations, guns are shown but not fired much more often than they are fired. Studies clearly find that waiting-period gun purchase laws, background-check laws and strict enforcement of laws against the unlicensed carrying of handguns -- cracking down on those who take their weapons onto the streets, rather than keeping them at home -- do reduce murder rates and other crime rates. So at least we can be sure that waiting periods, background checks and strict enforcement of concealed weapon permit laws are sensible rules.
Now back to "dangerous and unusual." Dangerous in this sense means a type of gun that poses some threat to society beyond the normal risks associated with self-defense, hunting and marksmanship. Shotguns and hunting rifles are not "dangerous" in this sense, because it is rare for either class of weapon to harm a person. Handguns are in this sense extremely "dangerous," because handguns are the primary weapon used in homicides and robberies. So why can't handguns be found "dangerous" in the sense the Supreme Court decision upholds, and tightly regulated?

Steve -
He's listed in my book. The scumbags like the one there that don't really understand what is wrong with this country are sadly the ones that go and vote for the people who have put us in a predicament. It is people like that who give good southerners a bad name - Rebel flags and let's kill the Democrats.

I wonder if any of the right wing talk show hosts even said anything about what happened yesterday. I figure if they did, it would be an implicit approval of killing those you do not agree with.

I found those cases where a Timohty Dale Johnson was struck by a crane, causing a skull fracture and it looks like $800,000 in medical bills. Think Daily Kos found them too.

http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/hoglawyer/2008/08/sad_sad_day.aspx

ARK. BLOG: Not the same guy, lawyer says definitively.

Wow, Steve...that feller thar ain't quite right...

I've been wondering since last night what websites and message boards Mr. Johnson frequented. If I were investigating his actions, I'd want to know and want to see what he had posted or read, or what else in his life may have caused him to ultimately snap. Why the rant on Target, for that matter, before he drove to Little Rock? What set this dude off?
Maybe it's this way every year, but it seems this has been an unusually bad year for innocent people with much to offer being senselessly murdered across the country. Now a high-profile crime of the same sort happens in Arkansas. It's impossible to understand, but none of us are ever the same.

I hope that when I die, the Arkansas Times doesn't let people make comments on the story.

Where is Bush and the NSA spying services when you need them?

I love how if I go check out a book about Che Guevara at the local Library, I am put on a terrorist watch list; BUT a right wing nut job can accumulate enough fire arms and high powered weapons to take down the local militia AND not one gd person bats an eye or has any information on him.

I mean I am a life long hunter and gun rights person, BUT give me an f-ing break the NRA is really going to condone allowing a mentally unstable person to get a hold of 50 Caliber fire arms. That is the same weapon that Secret Service Snipers use to protect the President...

Forget gun laws, they don't do shit as D.C. clearly shows.

What we need to do is start regulating the gd gun manufacturers like we do the cigarette companies. These gun manufacturers intentionally saturate the world with fire arms and deal to shady wholesalers who could care less who they sell to or what law is on the books....

AND I think its clear this cat was motivated by the Right wing propaganda factory, so this story just got launched into the national stratosphere.

"No one is banning guns in my lifetime. Period. It just won't happen."

Unless this is intended to mean ALL guns, it's just about the most ridiculous thing that's been posted on this thread. You're too late, JenJen-- SOME guns are already banned.

A similar argument could be made against Rod's enforcement woes: Background checks (as far as the law provides) and other gun laws ARE ALREADY enforced quite handily. OF COURSE some criminals will still have guns if they're banned. But do you really think it wouldn't remove even A FEW from the streets? Ask any cop in any major metropolis in this country and they'll tell you that if there ain't no guns in d' houses, there ain't no guns to steal for the Bogeyman's Black Market. And if new, tougher laws took away even a tiny fraction of guns that would otherwise have been used in crimes, it would be worth it. For "proper" shooting (e.g., self-defense) is still a smaller-than-tiny fraction of the total shooting that goes on.

I could (respectfully) just as well turn Rod's own argument back on him: Curing and/or preventing mental illness is an even more futile pipedream than effectively ridding criminals of guns. Mental illness arises from the most basic elements of biology, and biology is necessarily messy and unpredictable. That's how we got here.

In the end, that's the rub: This is an imperfect world. But it would be made at least a little better if we did everything reasonable to prevent the inevitable thugs and nutjobs from acquiring the means to wreck a beautiful family and steal a noble statesman with three little flicks of the index finger....

I think we'll learn what the connection was between Bill Gwatney and Tim Johnson, even if it only existed in Johnson's head. It's obvious Johnson targeted Gwatney for some reason and it very well could be a crazy reason. But once again a loner has killed. I'm sure this nation has millions of loners and only a small percentage will ever cause any trouble. I know from experience living alone makes me crazy. I am the worst single person in history....well, except for the Tim Johnsons of the world. Since Congress can't seem to do anything else, maybe they can study ways to protect Americans from deranged loners.

Who knows, maybe all these cameras and spy devices government is installing will stop the Tim Johnsons of the world before they kill. Giving up our privacy for safety sucks, but if you'll notice we aren't giving our privacy up, it's being taken away.

Not to take anything about from Bill Gwatney, his family or friends, but those of you close to him have just experienced some range of hurt like the families of the 4139 US soldiers killed in Iraq for no good reason. It is honorable that soldiers follow orders and do what they're told is their duty. Those 4139 in no way deserved to be killed either. But their deaths are as senseless as the ones in Little Rock yesterday. It's a horrible shame when anyone dies a senseless death. The hurt you're feeling today over the terrible death of Bill Gwatney has been felt 4139 times around the US over the last 5 years. How many more will have their lives destroyed, how many more families, friends, and co-workers will have their hearts broken for Exxon before the war in Iraq is over?

It is easier to protect our loved ones from the crazy people in Washington, DC than it is from deranged guys from Searcy, you can make a good start with your vote in November.

HeightsObserver

You would have to die a quite unusual death for it to make the blog. You'd have to go out in a high style or with some flair or sadly, due to some horrible circumstances. You just can't be a regular citizen, some ordinary Joe, and die of natural causes or old age. That won't do it. There's no sport in that. What would we blog about. We'd have to make shit up about you and that ain't right.

So you keep your head low, eat right, stay away from dangerous people and places and most especially other men's women and chances are you will never find your life--ex life rather-- eulogized, analyzed, rhapsodized and commented upon in such a manner.

Livin' clean and low profile is what you need to do. And I'm pulling for you. And oh yeah, stay away from those Janet Jackson Nipple pics if you got any. Those'll drag you down into the types of things that get you blogged about in the end.

Like Roderick Bryan I watched tv last nite. But, being in NWA I never saw the pool stick stabbing.
However, after the Bill Gwatney story I surfed about, still lost in the irrational feeling that invades you after a senseless, insane act this this one.

But I was surfing TV channels for the remaining minutes until the 10:30 programming began. I witnessed,
I counted them, 17 acts of violence in 20 min of tv viewing.

Once upon a time Timothy Johnson was a cute six year old. He was very likely to have been raised in front of a tv pumping his head fulll of the bhat-bhat-bhat of rifles being fired thru the wetland grasses of South Vietnam and brown skinned people being torched to death in their straw homes. He may have had a daily diet of it. When Timothy was a kid there were so many ways to solve problems, serious problems, that he never heard about or experienced. When he was ten William Buckley politely pronounced "War is way of solving problems that people want solved" in a pbs debate with Gore Vidal. In the ensuing 11 years Timothy learned that using a gun was one of the best of all ways to solve a problem. By the time he was "legal" he had watched no less than 20,000 episodes of blood-letting violence. Today he's a "man" and well equipped for it with an impressive arsenal. He was prepared for his share of American problem solving.

Problem with oil supplies? See William Buckley above.

That's what I can reasonably deduct from our limited reports.

"Mommas don't let your boys grow up to be cowboys."
.

Thanks a mill for the "newsflash," Neuroglider, but OF COURSE I meant all guns.

"Curing and/or preventing mental illness is an even more futile pipedream"

I disagree.

"Mommas don't let your boys grow up to be cowboys."

My brother and I sang this in the Bradley Elementary version of the Gong Show. We were gonged by my Aunt.

It's kind of mind-boggling how many liberals jump to the "guns should be banned!" argument when something like this happens. As if he couldn't have a creative way to kill poor Mr. Gwatney if that was what he set out to do.

On the other hand I kind of regret not voting for Rod Byran for governor. His comment makes a lot of sense.

"...a Smith and Wesson gun box; a Browning .22-caliber pistol; a Thompson 50-caliber rifle; a CZ rifle; a Remington model 700 rifle; a Benelli double-barrel shotgun; a CZ rifle; a 12-gauge shotgun; a CZ M-1 carbine; a U.S. M-1 rifle; a Mohawk 600/308 rifle; a CZ 20-gauge shotgun; a Winchester .22-rifle; a Remington .25/06 muzzle loader; a New Englander muzzle loader..."

Bill Gwatney's right to live trumped this maniac's "right"--or anyone's "right"--to stockpile this many weapons. Government limits the amount of cold medicine someone can buy because they MIGHT use it to make drugs, yet the sky's the limit on buying an arsenal of deadly weapons and ammo? Madness.

While depression is a mental illness, it doesn't make you want to kill someone or actually do it. His actions were not related to depression.

Max, you know how creepy it is that you can get this guy's voting records just by asking?

In a totally unrelated note, I deeply love our President and also Ruler-For-Life Cheney, and if you find any voting records to the contrary, why, it's some other Archaeopteryx. Long Live Dubya!

I am terribly sorrow filled for all of those who are, and who will be, directly impacted by this senseless act. The ripples tend to extend much further than we realize.
In the face of tragedy, a little introspection seems to serve me well.

Pop the cork, kiss the wife, hug the kids, here's to life...

May we all find our peace...wherever it may be.

Any one of the numerous suggestions about motive, reason, etc. for THIS senseless tragedy in one way or another contribute to (and are not THE cause of) this FACT: We are the MOST VIOLENT nation/society on the planet, and THAT is a problem.
Until we and our "leaders" can coalesce around that, it will never be solved, and we just heard PMbSfBBL (who is unquestionably the biggest killer in the "free" world) say to the entire world "I don't see American as having problems." IF not praying in school, or Bill Clinton's dalliance with the chubette (and/or others), or Janet Jackson's nipple which NO ONE SAW was the beginning of the downfall of America as most of the country seem to believe, WTF is THAT?
|
Posted by: Larry
Of all the fantastic comments above .. this hits the top of the big problem, imo.. which I hope we (most of us) can agree to someday very soon redouble our efforts to insure our leaders embrace this point. As some else mentioned, demanding politicians who simply demonstrate the willingness to talk much as folks in this thread are talking today.
Nixon began by continuing needles war and breaking laws...and congress never really pursued accountability at the top since that time, all the while meaner and bigger crooks (many from that same crew) continuously accelerate. Ironically, Nixon was more progressive on health care than most Democrats are today.
Carter truly did try and change things and speak honestly and openly.. he was probably both the greatest christian and constitutional loving president we will ever see in our lifetimes. (Boy do I hope I am wrong about that prediction)
Reagan and Bush began (where they left off from Nixon and Ford) by attacking poor and middle class labor and while killing mental and all other health care across the board for them... and almost spent us into oblivion with military expenditures.
Clinton initiated extraordinary rendition programs and sanctioned needless mass killing of innocents in places like Iraq.. and he helped continue mega corporate overthrow of our media...and repealed Glass Steagall, which opened new flood gates for our robber barons. Nor did he demand accountability and further investigation of the likes of Iran Contra.. which allowed them all to live to destroy our system another day, including today.
All the way to the present, where under Bushco (and to many like minded Bushco Dems in congress) we are a nation of global torturers and genocidal maniacs, largely on millions of people who couldn't locate us on a map, much less thought of trying to harm us.
It's this type of larger very violent and anti American pattern I want to see change, more than anything.
We simply imprison more of our own than any other country in the world, bar none.. and make it an increasingly profitable venture for those who cage us. No real profit or concern for the causes or the rehabilitation.
And always, our military spending and use accelerates.. without real cause. I would argue to all our detriment.
All of us are that crazy mad man with a gun on a global scale, much more than we are the victim. We have to admit it to ourselves and see that it stops. America never really stopped since it wiped out native Americans... which we are also still doing.
And yet these very basic concepts (and many expressed above) seems to escape us or simply paralyze us. I would argue we in AR do not actually have one person in a leadership position who actually governs with what the vast majority of this entire thread addresses. And we would all be much better off if we worked to make that change with a great sense of urgency.
On todays updates.
What about the anti depressant medications? What sort of supervision did he have? Were they new medications to his system? Had he asked for help and what did he say? What more could have been done at that point in time? Sometimes new meds like anti depressants make things worse before a persons system adjusts to them and things get better? Will we ever be able to see his medical records or the will, now that he is no longer among the living? If not, why not?
Where and how did he get two sets of keys with gwatney on them? Were they simply for vehicles which may have been repossessed in the past or what?
And a kudos to the team AR Times Blog.. was fascinating to watch an evolving story with edits and updates yesterday. Way to go! Welcome to the new media, AR.

Unfortunately i have to go. But before I do I think it important that we all have one meaningful take-away from today's thread. On that note I'm reposting one of my earlier posts as a reminder and as a service to those who may have missed it:

Never keep your pot in the glove box in Arkansas during the summer. Dries it out something terrible. Renders it completely inert. One scorching day and even the best Mexican Wowey Wowey is done for.

One man could own a warehouse filled to the top with bullets and guns. He still has only one trigger finger per hand and one brain to decide when, where and whom to shoot. I can make a zip gun out of stuff I could get in any hardware store that would kill any man. I grew up learning that the man who runs out of ideas first is the one who takes the first swing. Or in this case, the first shot.

Detractors might say, if we don't give this man access to a gun, we make it easier for him to make a better decision. Yes we do. This is where we return to the argument of enforcement. What if tomorrow, George Bush came onto television and decreed that every gun maker was immediately to shut down. All existing guns in sporting goods stores, pawn shops, Wal-Marts must be publicly melted and handed over. What branch of the government is going to maintain the database to insure that all these weapons are collected and disposed of properly. Who will search the houses of every loner at the end of a street in Searcy to make sure that they don't have an arsenal of weapons? Will it be the same group that bought all those trailers down in Hope?

We always argue about the wrong things in this country. That's the design of partisan politics. We would rather argue about how we are going to eat the food before we decide how to cook it (or further still grow it.) While we argue about all the things that don't matter, republicans and democrats walk hand in hand down the aisle with our future.

When I first glanced at the picture of the murderer I had the oddest feeling of familiarity; as though I knew him, or had seen him more than once. From what I have read (Target, Conway, Searcy, Gun Club), our paths would never have crossed. Did anyone else experience that feeling? Is there an actor perhaps that Johnson resembles?

"LR police said they didn't know if it was Gwatney's phone number"

LRPD this link is for you...

"While we argue about all the things that don't matter, republicans and democrats walk hand in hand down the aisle with our future."

...AND our money, which ultimately is all they care about!!!
|

That's a good point above. Shotguns are much better for home defense. And someone who hunts with a pistol is rare. Handguns are more or less for carrying around to use on other people.

And the other point -- why is it harder to get a driver's license than it is to own an assault rifle?

I know that if I ever saw anyone with a concealed weapon, I'd call 911 in a New York minute -- and if they were licensed, good. I fear "law abiding" citizens who feel the need to carry a gun every bit as much as I fear criminals, because let's face it -- if someone is that paranoid and that ready to use violence, I don't want them around me.

And, before the flames start, I'll say that I own probably a dozen guns or so. Maybe more.

One news story mentioned a set, or sets, of Gwatney keys in relation to the search warrant. Maybe a car, or cars, had been repossessed by the Gwatney dealership?

ARK. BLOG: Two sets of keys with Gwatney emblem are listed in this very item.

Very interesting read today.
We as a nation always jump to " who/what can we blame" rather than "what can we do to help prevent this". We need to look at the whole picture. Our Country is going to hell in a handbasket!
I read with humor the few times it was said " gun manufacturers build guns for only one reason and that to kill other human beings". Get real! You know that's no true.
Kinda weird to think that I can identify with the shooter. I have guns in my house, in my vehicles and even on my saddle and I have anti-depressants in the house. I have Vietnam to thank for all that and the VA system for helping me keep my head on about half way straight. Wonder how many of us have the same or close profile as the shooter.
Everyone have a great evening and be thankful that we are still a free nation ... for now anyway.

>Thanks a mill for the "newsflash," Neuroglider, but OF COURSE I meant all guns. [JenJens]

OK, then you're off the hook for being ignorant. But you're still on the hook for being less than insightful. Many people argue that it would be progress to ban-- or at least restrict more stringently-- ONLY the guns that are designed for human-hunting. Like EY said (in a post that should garner him/her a dissertation!), it would have been much harder for Johnson to do what he did with a shotgun. Not impossible, certainly; but what's wrong with making it harder? There are certainly some lives out there that would have been saved. If not Bill Gwatney's, somebody's.

>"Curing and/or preventing mental illness is an even more futile pipedream" I disagree. [Rod Bryan]

Well then, Rod, you "don't know much bi-ol-o-gy" [apologies to Sam Cooke]. Mutations and other accidents of development are the stock-n-trade of biological organisms (such as H. sapiens). They will arise anew even if you could stamp out all the existing ones.

>I grew up learning that the man who runs out of ideas first is the one who takes the first swing. [Rod again]

Indeed! You also say that you could make a zip gun out of stuff you could get in a hardware store. What you evince here is cleverness... intelligence. How many of the thugs and nutcases that actually perpetrate crimes are this smart? When confronted about his dog crapping up his neighbor's yard, Tim Johnson's response was a dumb stare. When asked to confess to the Target graffiti, he did so by signing his name to the "wall art." He was inarticulate, so he let his actions do the talkin'. Tim Johnson was not an idea man. If we banned handguns and assault weapons, SURELY the least likely to circumvent the ban would be the dangerously idiotic. No?

No... it may not be political. There could be a connection regarding the car dealerships Gwatney owned. Why does it always have to be politics, religion, or race?

re: "you don't know much bi-ol-o-gy"

Diet has very much to do with development and maintenance of the brain. Decreased Omega 6 to 3 levels in the human diet are directly proportionate to increased levels of depression. (Check out the link at my name.)

If you plan on removing guns from people who are guilty of stupidity, I hope you have quite a bit of stamina as that could take a few human lifetimes.

"Why does it always have to be politics, religion, or race? "

Because that's what we (mainly) DO here - we're not CSI...
|

HOW DO YOU DEMOCRATS GET THE VOTING RECORDS OF ANYONE. LORD MAX, YOU BLEW IT.

WHAT A TERRIBLE THING TO DO AND PRINT, THIS MAN IS GONE, IN THE BLINK OF AN EYE, AND YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT HOW HE VOTED. AND FOR THE LAST BUNCH OF YEARS. WHO IS YOUR CONTACT MAX. LET US ALL KNOW.. YEAH , RIGHT A SECRET BALLOT.. LIKE THE LAST TIME I VOTED AT DUNBAR, THE LADY STOOD RIGHT THERE AND WATCHED WHO I VOTED FOR. AND I AM NOT COMPUTER ILLITERATE. I CAN READ, AND I AM NOT HANDICAPPED.
NOW. WHO GAVE YOU THE VOTING RECORDS.

CANT YOU JUST GIVE THE SHOOTER FOR HIS FAMILYS SAKE, AND MOST OF ALL ,MR GWATNEY SOME RESPECT ON THIS BLOG.

JUST A SMALL PIECE OF WHAT IS WRONG WITH OUR COUNTRY. GOD SAVE US ALL.

YES. PRAYERS ARE BEING SAID.

ARK. BLOG: Voting records are public records, availablre in the office of every county clerk. Since the law does not allow you to vote in both the Republican and Democratic primary -- and records are also kept so that you don't vote in one party's primary in the first primary and then another in a runoff -- there's a reason to note the ballot preference. This does not compromise the secret ballot. It is only a record of whether a person voted in a certain election and -- when it's primary day -- which party's primary.

Not that it's here nor there, but I'm fairly certain there's no such thing as a "a Remington .25/06 muzzle loader".

And to muckraker: exactly how much of this "stockpile" was used in the commission of this horrific act? It only takes one gun, in the hands of a sick person, to do this.