Arkansas Blog

If it is not Clinton or Clark, I'm afraid Obama will lose.

Tiresome, tiresome, tiresome!

Headstrong lefties, caught up in the heady euphoria of the first black president, selected the wrong nominee. I have no doubt about that, but it's done and I, for one, and tired of the continuing talk about the Clintons. They aren't running. Someone on this blog actually said recently that "if only the Clintons would......" whatever, all would be well for Obama. Baloney!! This is Obama's election to win or lose. He made it clear from the get-go that he didn't need the Clintons nor the Clinton supporters. He can do it all by himself - so he needs to get his self busy.

The decision to have Hillary's name put in nomination seems to me a bit of a concession to the idea that whoops, he can't quite do it all by himself, but it's probably too late. Most of his voters are already decided. He'll get the vast majority of Democratic votes because McCain is simply not an option. I don't believe even the Puma's will actually mark their ballots for McCain, no matter what they say.

But, Hillary has done what she can do - she urged her supporters to vote for Obama and she is campaigning for him. Obama needs to get off his high horse and do the rest. If he doesn't choose to do so, or if he continues to think (as one political reporter stated last nite - that "he's all the excitement his ticket needs", then he can sink or swim based on his own glorious wonderfulness.

Leave the Clintons out of it - this is now Obama's election.

Ci.Ci: It hurts to have to agree. Not that it hurts to agree with YOU, but that your assessment is right.

It's devastating to have to acknowledge that any candidate who can presume he will win the election while alienating 50% of his party's constituency does not have the common sense, let alone the political savvy, required to be president of the United States.

He may be correct in assuming that Hillary's supporters would not even THINK about abandoning the party and voting for McCain--probably is. But I wonder if that's an outcome against which he wants to bet all of his chips.

If that's his thinking, it would make me wonder if he has been a serious politician and not campaigning just for the fun of playing the election game. He makes it appear that he doesn't really care whether he wins or loses.

This is serious business and he doesn't seem to be taking it seriously. He's toying with the fate of the country--and a considerable part of the rest of the world.

Given that Hillary is a stronger leader than Obama, her presence on the ticket would greatly shadow Obama. There's still time for Democrats to be bold and switch nominees. Hillary is a slam dunk in November.

It's Hillary. I hate to disagree with you Ci.Ci., but it's Hillary Clinton. When Obama rejected public financing and then turned around and took it, that showed me he was smart enough to know that he has to hedge every bet on and under the table if he hopes to win over the Republican Dirty Tricks Election Machine. I think that's a smart move. There will be no cakewalk to the White House for Obama if George Washington was his running mate. The neo-cons are not going to depend on McCain's weak efforts and poor showing to hold on to their power...they'll kill to hold on to the power they stole.

The other day when the talking heads were saying Joe Biden was Obama's VP pick the whole country went beige....ho hum.....snooze. I know it's probably time to throw Joe a bone, but following the pecking order will make losers out of the Democratic Party once again. This country won't be here in 2012 if McCain gets in. We'll be a giant war corporation called Americlan or something, but we won't be the USA.

Like I said at the beginning of this election misery, it's going to take Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton AND Bill Clinton to straighten out this goddamn mess. The barbarians aren't at the gate, they're thru the gate and dancing on the head table. America is so wrong, so dangerously, deadly wrong and 300 miles down the wrong path. One person can't wrestle us back on track. Hell, even Jesus has his Dad, a host of heavenly angels and that Cheney-like Holy Ghost to help him get things done.

It's Clinton....Hillary Clinton....adding her is the only chance we have to defeat the evil ones....if it's not already too late.

Oh ye of little faith.
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Yep. It is a done deal. The trial balloons are aloft. It is going to be Hillary.

There really is no other choice.

Biden? Nope. Hoof in Mouth.

Richardson? Nope. doesn't pole well.

Bayh? Instead of Hillary? Nope.

Kaine? To young for a young candidate.

It's Hillary. She was really the only choice. It just took a little time to get over the campaign.

As a McCain supporter, I appreciate the Clintons' efforts to undermine Obama while appearing to be nominally supportive.

Brummett floats the intriguing idea that Hillary herself will move to nominate Obama by acclaimation - while allowing her pledged delegates to cast their votes for her. That could happen, but it seems risky if her insincerity is obvious to the television audience. I'll stick with my prediction that the Illinois delegation will offer the motion for acclaimation.

eLwood, I do have faith. I don't like the way this campaign is unfolding, but I believe the man who has flipped on so many issues that were supposed to make him different, and the man who ran on "change" but quickly adopted more of the same, and the man who eliminated his opponent in the Illinois race the old fashioned way - by challenging the signatures on her petition, can and will find it within himself to avoid his first loss. He will win this election and he has all that it takes to win it - he just isn't trying very hard right now.

My point was that IF by some unthinkable means, he manages to lose this election, that's his problem and of course the problem of the Democrats as well. No one should be expecting the Clintons to win this election for him and hand him the oval office, nor will it be their fault if he wakes up from his stupor too late............ BUT, that ain't happening........I would still bet on it.

Choosing Hillary would demonstrate that Obama truly was a different kind of politician...that he chose to win rather than to nurse grudges. (Plus, if he looses, he can blame it on the Clintons...they can handle it and it leaves him free to come back another day.)

But I really don't give a damn about anything other than keeping Monkeyboy's enabling twin from finishing off what's left of our military, economy and Constitution.

Let me respectfully disagree with CiCi just a little bit. Regardless of our primary choices, Obama is now Our Guy. It's not just his election to win or lose, it belongs to all of us. If we don't do all we can to reverse the dumbing-down of American politics that dates all the way back to Saint Ronnie (McSame finished 5th from the bottom out of 899, fer Pete's sake), we will deserve the government we get, and we will all get it, regardless of the purity of our motives.

I agree with you Silverback, to a point. It is all of our responsibility to do what we can to ensure Obama wins in November, but there is only so much we can do. If "Our Guy" continues to act like he considers himself a gift to society rather than working hard to sell himself, his proposals, and get voters to choose him, nothing will work.

>>This is serious business and he doesn't seem to be taking it seriously. He's toying with the fate of the country--and a considerable part of the rest of the world.<<

This is the part of your excellent analysis that upsets me the most. Many, including Obama, act as though HE is the only one who has a stake in the outcome of this election. While it is true that he is the only one who can make it happen, he is not the only one who will suffer if he loses. When I hear talking heads mention his need to choose a VP based on how "comfortable" he will be working with that person, I seriously want to barf. What do I care if Obama is "comfortable" with the best candidate for VP? He is supposed to be a public servant - not building his own personal career. He's either planning to serve the US and all its citizens, or he isn't.

Obama's history in Illinois showed a certain ruthlessness that removed opponents with little effort, so where is all that determination today? You may have hit on something when you wonder if he really wants to win or was it just the chase that mattered. One writer stated recently that a review of Obama's political history shows someone who goes after something hard - even ruthlessly- but becomes bored once it's won. Maybe all he ever wanted was to defeat Hillary. Who knows?

But, he'd better get off his duff if he wants any kind of career following this election should he lose. Dems turn on their own losers with a vengeance, and if he's seen to have lost thru lack of skill politically, he'll be toast.

That's true, Ci.Ci...only so much we can do. And if Obama loses it won't be because you/me didn't support him enough. Hell, I'd kiss his ass (never said that about a politician before, ha) if it would ensure we get a change from the crap Monkeyboy and his enablers have been shoveling. I don't think our economy, Constitution and the world can take much more. I know I can't.

"Headstrong lefties, caught up in the heady euphoria of the first black president, selected the wrong nominee. I have no doubt about that, but it's done and I, for one, and tired of the continuing talk about the Clinton's."

"Obama needs to get off his high horse and do the rest. If he doesn't choose to do so, or if he continues to think (as one political reporter stated last nite - that "he's all the excitement his ticket needs", then he can sink or swim based on his own glorious wonderfulness."

"If that's his thinking, it would make me wonder if he has been a serious politician and not campaigning just for the fun of playing the election game. He makes it appear that he doesn't really care whether he wins or loses."

"This is serious business and he doesn't seem to be taking it seriously. He's toying with the fate of the country--and a considerable part of the rest of the world."

"There's still time for Democrats to be bold and switch nominees. Hillary is a slam dunk in November."

"He will win this election and he has all that it takes to win it - he just isn't trying very hard right now."

"If "Our Guy" continues to act like he considers himself a gift to society rather than working hard to sell himself, his proposals, and get voters to choose him, nothing will work."

"But, he'd better get off his duff if he wants any kind of career following this election should he lose."

What a bunch of amateur prognosticators. Beside the ongoing Hillary addiction withdrawal the idea that Obama isn't doing enough to win the election is ridiculous. The man is out campaigning every day. What do you want him to do that he isn't doing now?

Do you begrudge him his Hawaii vacation? He picked the perfect time to take it with the Olympics taking the country's attention.

These comments sound like the drivel you here from the national political "experts". A case in point David Gergen's point, after the Saddleback event, that McCain had shown he was a great debater. Bullshit, the format had no followup and I think McCain would have done poorly on a number of issues had there been. It now seems likely that McCain knew some of the questions in advance. He for sure wasn't in a "cone of silence".

And Zelda, I doubt your kissing Obama's ass would be of much help.

"Colin Powell could be the Obama surprise pick for VP"
CLICK for LINK
"The only negatives about Powell's selection would be the Iraq war decision and the fear amongst some that it would make the ticket racially imbalanced. Since John Mccain and most of the VP choices of both Mccain and Obama have voted for the Iraq war resolution, it might be a wash. Moreover, this might actually give Powell an opportunity to explain his perspective and praise Barack for his foresight often."

OMG...LAJ-Hillcrest how do you think the VP gets selected...BY KISSING ASS!

"And Zelda, I doubt your kissing Obama's ass would be of much help."--LAJ-Hillcrest

Doubt it would either, hillcrest...though I know a few votes that would be garnered from the spectacle.

Given that we're liberal Democrats, not Kool-Aid drinking Monkeyboy enablers, I see nothing wrong with Ci.Ci's statements. I've yet to meet a presidential candidate who didn't need more nudging, not less. And, I'd feel exactly the same if Hillary was the nominee.

Both of us (CiCi/me) support Obama, are going to vote for Obama, spend lots of time debunking Obama-myths with our friends/relatives/acquaintances and are thrilled to give him credit where credit is due. But if his election is dependent on him/his supporters becoming clones of Monkeyboy/his fan club, his election wouldn't be much of a change. Luckily, I believe most of this go-along-get-along/shut-up crap comes from his supporters, not Obama.

I criticized Bill, Hillary and I will criticize Obama.

NO ONE wants Obama elected more than me...well, other than his mom/wife/kids...

We're not Amish matchmakers here, it doesn't matter if Hillary and Barack don't want to cuddle. Politicians are so in love with themselves, they don't have any room to love someone else. So like is off the table. What every P and VP candidate wants to do is win. You can bet Obama is going to chose the one he thinks will help him win. (Bush I picking Quayle and Gore picking LIEberman makes no sense, I'll never understand those picks).

I want the Republicans out so badly I'd take Vlad the Impaler Putin as Obama's running mate. I am not a party man.....I want change......more change than just throwing the Republicans out of office. Our system is broken. In the past we've had to depend on world war or a giant depression to cause us to regroup and make needed changes. This time around we're gonna have to just do it ourselves.

Obama needs a team, no Brownies, no bench warmers, no place holders. To save America-AT&T it's going to take a team. Their personalities are of no interest to me. I don't care if they're pretty or have nice hair. I want big thinkers with good souls willing to piss us off by doing the right thing, not the popular thing and sure enough not what's only best for the very rich.

The professor on Moyers last weekend said it right....the news media parsing every word of every BS artist from Obama down to the likes of Huckabee are doing us a disservice because it makes this election all about Obama or McCain.......and not about us....not about our dying country...our tarnished reputation...our job flight.

This is election is about us and our children's future....we are a ship in search of a Captain. Bush has put us on the rocks. We've got to do whatever it takes to heal our country and get back on the right track. And shopping at the mall ain't it.

I have no choice but to believe in Obama. We got to have a President at least as smart as we are. And I still think John Edwards as Attorney General is a smart move. After his recent troubles...you can bet he won't be FK'ing up again. That his dick is connected to his brain doesn't bother me.

Amen...DBI...Amen! And damn well said!

>>It now seems likely that McCain knew some of the questions in advance. He for sure wasn't in a "cone of silence".<<

I don't know if he was or he wasn't in a cone of silence, but it doesn't matter much in the end unless it is proven that he cheated and that isn't likely to happen. I wasn't at Saddleback, have never met nor spoken to Rev Warren or anyone in his group, but I KNEW what the questions would be before they were asked too. Either of those candidates who showed up not prepared to respond about abortion, evil, morality, etc., would have been mentally lazy. Some of the responses, while very thoughtful and understandable to me, I think showed a lack of serious preparation on Obama's part. He shouldn't have responded that the question of when does life begin was "above his pay grade". I know what he meant, I think. There are many answers to that question and no definitive answer. Some think it is at conception and others believe it is at quickening. Some believe it is only when the breath of life is breathed. Most of the time physicians start referring to the fetus as a baby at about the time viability occurs. Yet, in some states, you can be charged with murder if you harm a pregnant woman, even if only a few weeks pregnant, and she loses the baby.

While I understand there was no easy answer - he certainly could have come up with something better.
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LAJ said....."What a bunch of amateur prognosticators. Beside the ongoing Hillary addiction withdrawal the idea that Obama isn't doing enough to win the election is ridiculous."
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Those of us who want Obama to win but see the mistakes that are being made and overlooked are likely more clear thinking and observant than those who remain blinded by Clinton hate and/or Obama worship. Obama and Clinton are politicians, not objects of our love, addiction/withdrawal (at least for most of us - I question the Clinton haters and their addiction). As Zelda said, we criticize when we think it is necessary and right now, Obama is treading water. If he wants this election, he better start swimming.

The only thing I see that is ridiculous is the head in sand posture of so many Obama supporters who can't see that he is losing the public relations game to a has-been old man who doesn't know where he is at times and is guided by hate and anger more than any other emotion. That Obama isn't 20 points ahead is what is ridiculous.

Warren's question Does evil exist? provided the PERFECT foil to prove without a shadow of a doubt which candidate has the intellectual capacity of POTUS. YET the overwhelming punditry declared that O'Bama's "thoughtful" response was a loser. McCain's 10th grade testosterone response DEFEAT IT is for the Kool-Aid addicts, is shallow and shows his petulance, anger and out-of-touch lack of depth. Which response do YOU think was most appealing/welcome to the average voter?

The BIGGEST problem we face, that brought us the debacle of the last 7.7 years remains exactly the same - the IGNORANCE/LAZINESS of our citizens. So long as that exists we'll be prone to President McAint!! The ONLY hope:

1) Hillary as VPOTUS
2) a McThuselah killer blunder or revelation (that actually has LEGS)
3) a Republican-only killer virus like Ebola OR...
4) a massive, country-wide brain transplant!

Last night one of the cute pundits, agreeing that Hillary was both the BEST choice, and highly unlikely: "It would have to come with a pledge that Bill would spend the entire term in Kazakhstan!"
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OOPS - OR
5) a Dem Convention "nullification" that selects Hillary as the CANDIDATE...

LAJ-H: "The man is out campaigning every day. What do you want him to do that he isn't doing now?"

For starters, reach out to Hillary's supporters and tell them he needs their support to win.

I'm not talking about some kind of "apology." He and Hillary were adversaries in the Primaries. They're adults. They understand how the fight is waged. So do the rest of us. This is not "love is not having to say you're sorry." This is "I need you; I can't do this without you!"

But he has never (to my knowledge) acknowledged that he NEEDS ALL OF THE DEMOCRATS to support him. The times I've heard him and read what he's said, he's sounded like he and his supporters have it all wrapped up.

He has alienated millions of loyal Democrats and done nothing to reconcile with them.

Putting Hillary on the program to speak and letting Bill speak may show reconciliation of some kind with the Clintons, but he has never appealed to Hillary's supporters to support him, or if he has I've missed it. And I suspect that if I missed it, so did a bunch of other people. Maybe he's planning to do that in some spectacular way at the convention.

But for now, he's acting like, "I got along without you before I met you, I can get along without you now."

Maybe he can. But he's flirting with disaster. Not just for him but for the party and for the country, and perhaps for the world.

His ditching Clark when Clark answered a simple, direct question with the truth was small-minded, petty, and a political disaster. If he can't stand up for a supporter who tells that little bit of truth, he has no hope of being a success as POTUS.

The media love to make mountains out of mole hills, create controversy over small remarks. The media act as if the rest of us should just go away and let THEM pick the president, etc. Tim Russert certainly gave that impression. If we'd just listen to them, we wouldn't need to go through this voting process. The media have fallen in love with themselves and earnestly desire to MAKE the news and BE the news instead of REPORTING the news.

But the purpose of the media is to make money.

The business the media are in is the audience/reader delivery business.

They have to deliver viewers and readers to their advertisers in order to sell advertising, which is the way they make their money.

And since the media are controlled by a handful of Republicans, you can bet that the more controvesy they can stir up, the more viewers and readers they deliver, the more money they make and the better they like it.

They don't give a damn about informing or educating the voting public. They give a damn about their bottom lines!

Why is it Clinton supporters hold Obama to a much higher standard than they ever held Clinton? Why is with all the policy shifts and campaign speeches in which he has completely embraced Clintons supporters, they continue to eviscerate him at every turn? Perhaps his biggest failing was leaving what he really represented in the primary season and becoming more and more like (DLC) Clinton with every passing day.

I've always thought he should choose a progressive VP candidate and make a fight out of what dbi, mentions above.. that this election is about us. He could do that very very well. But, as of yet, there are no kitchen table issues... no hard definitions of why we are all Democrats or really even why we are all Americans at our best when we are under a rule of law not men.

That said, we go to the election with the nominees we have...and if Obama selects a conservative Dem other than Hillary instead of someone who actually cares about people and their liberties who worth less than ten million dollars.. he sure is making this hard on himself.

Frankly.. Obama is also losing support by running like CLinton.. ignoring FISA, embracing AIPAC, planning on extended war in Afghanistan, embracing nuclear power, campaigning in right wing mega churches..

He needs to support his base much more too.. not just the Hillary base who gives him no credit..certainly no more than the right wing-nuts give him credit for campaigning in their churches. And churches of any color need to lose their non profit status when they host political campaign events.

No matter what, Clinton supporters, above all else, remember McCain is dangerous!

"Frankly.. Obama is also losing support by running like CLinton.. ignoring FISA, embracing AIPAC, planning on extended war in Afghanistan, embracing nuclear power, campaigning in right wing mega churches.."--eureka

We can agree on that, eureka. I didn't like it when the Clintons did it and I don't like it now. After winning the nomination, he ran to the middle so fast I got whiplash.

But I'm relying on Obama being much smarter/more politically savvy than me.

ES, I don't know who is holding Obama to a higher standard. I was always quite critical of Bill Clinton.

I agree Obama loses support from the far left for some of the changes he has made, but I think some were necessary in order to appeal to moderate voters. I realize that someone who would do just what I want would never be elected, so I'm prepared to accept some Clintonisms in order to get a President who just might get elected and have a chance to get something done for the good of the country while in office.

My complaint is not all the changes in position, though I have serious differences with some of them, (especially the death penalty and gun control, faith based iniatives) but that he pretended in the primary as so diametrically "different". I didn't believe him, but it still angers me that he pretended until he had hooked the lefties and then smiled as he ran toward the DLC. I believe we are seeing the Obama who always was and the appealing man of change was a political gimmick.

At this point in time, I don't really care what he does as long as he does what it takes to win and so far he seems reluctant to do anything that might damage his ego and that angers me a lot.

"he ran to the middle so fast I got whiplash."

Most do. Eisenhower, Reagan, Bush I ran quickly to the middle. That's where most Americans are, in spite of what you hear on talk radio and FOX.

SkyPilot, Click on blue name for Obama "reaching out" to Hillary.

LAJ-H: Thanks for that URL.

I think I remember what may have been a sound-bite clip from this speech on the evening news once. Certainly had not heard the entire speech, or the part posted if that were not all of it.

I certainly applaud that reach-out to Hillary.

And perhaps I'm expecting too much, or simply haven't heard it because I don't have cable and don't get all of the coverage that some others do, but I haven't heard anything of this sort and tone to Hillary's SUPPORTERS! And that's my point. My only point really.

What he said in his final sentences about coming together still sounded more like "Y'all come together to join us," not "Let's all come together because I need the support of all of you!"

Maybe I'm still too emotionally let down because I was such an ardent Hillary supporter and felt that she had paid her dues and that he--and the party--would have been better served to get several years of senatorial experience before making his run for the office. Maybe I'm harboring personal resentments. Maybe I'm expecting too much--expecting to hear him say it in the words I think he should use.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope all of us get adequately behind him to put him in office. Certainly I'm going to cast my vote for him. But at the moment I'm more a RELUCTANT supporter than an ARDENT supporter.

Maybe I'm waiting for him to tell ME that he needs MY support. I haven't heard that yet. And, admittedly, that could be my own fault.

And maybe I'm in a serious minority for feeling that way. I hope I am. Because I'm convinced he needs the ardent support of as many of Hillary's supporters as he can get! I just don't feel he's really asked for it, don't think he's admitted it even to himself that he needs it.

I don't think a reach out to Hillary is enough, or maybe even all that important. But, I don't think he will have a comfortable margin of safety without a serious reach out to Hillary supporters. He continues to expect their votes but his supporters continue to diss them. It ain't working and it won't work. He must put a stop to his own supporters dissing the Clintons and their supporters BECAUSE he needs their votes. If he didn't need the votes he could afford to be thin skinned, but he does need the votes.

Ci.Ci: As usual, you're absolutely 100% right. You agree with me.

Folks, let's settle down and read and listen. There has been a lot of stuff coming out about this highway across the middle of America which only the chosen few can access. Who are the chosen: Those in power, those who vote Republican. They have eight years plus evil Cheney and Gonzales to distract us from what is really going on: combining Central and North America to make it easier to do the kind of business they want to do for generations to come.

Look at years in office of presidents since 1953: Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, H. W., Clinton, G.W Bush. Add them up: Republicans 36 years, Democrats 20 years. Republicans served 6 times and Democrats 4 times.

They have had power too many years. Can we do something? Bet your best Obama t-shirt we can. What he needs is Hillary on the ticket.

Since Reagan, Clinton is the only president to have a D after his name. Quit the bad-mouthing. Were things not better while Bill was in office? Did his administration not leave a surplus? Bush's aim is to leave all of our Democratic services in shambles plus a big debt for generations to come. If it takes Hillary to get the voters to the polls, let it happen. We have to.Get Elected!

Great minds..:-)