Arkansas Blog

they are only in it for the money, bit. > ES Wed. night.

The thing about any human concoction is that it has limits and the limits of one of the best systems in the world, capitalism, is no different. Our forefathers set up a system of checks and balances for this reason.

In my opinion the breakdown comes as follows: Corporations by definition have a legal imperative to make the most profit they can legally. Following this imperative the oil companies give money to the American Petroleum Institute to support the use of oil. The API then lobbies with only what information would be good for the use of oil to the government to get the best favorable treatment for their industry. The problem comes when the API has most all the money compared with solar, wind, corn and nuclear they have the greater voice. Since wind, corn and solar are a minimal threats they quite naturally beat up on nuclear. The oil person W pronounces nuclear as new clear which is what I believe is a tell or a slight.

Now when API finds a mark in government they then tell the oil companies to donate to that person. So the breakdown occurs with the politician who is the check and balance of capitalism and it is not the oil companies.

So (bite my) Obama does not have the experience to know the system whereas McCain does and wants justice for the nuclear industry and all others besides being the right course of action.

McCain who has faced death many times is similarly like more to my experience of a racer which faces death or competition that much comes to realize the only one thing they can leave on this earth is their self respect. To learn that is no fun to cheat to win. The last thing he wants to leave on this earth is that he beat up on some dumb jerk. I think that is why McCain is showing his hand before the conventions.

He is giving the Dems the long shot or slighting whichever you prefer of their check and balance with their super delegates. Democracy is also an imperfect human concoction as is being shown with its limits of celebrity rule. Now that they are beginning to learn of Obama's lack of experience and ineptitude I would like to think some supers would change their votes. Quite a long shot.

Even a longer shot would be for Obama to come to his senses and realize he could be a great POTHS 8 years from now.

It don't mean nothing.

I'd like to provide a little disclosure about a post from last night's thread regarding Lu Hardin and his "misrepresentation" at UCA. Kretara made some pretty nasty comments about "definitely second tier" (in his opinion) and the inadequate education offered there. He even went so far as to say that he would never send his child to school there. You listed several colleges in the Boston area (with the disclaimer that you had "attended," and not necessarily graduated from).

"UCA in NO way has a nicer campus. UCA was total crap in the early-90's when I was there. It (campus housing, buildings, and getting the classes I needed) was so bad I left UCA for UALR. " . . . "I graduated from UAMS so I have no real loyalty to any of the above Universities. I have also attended Suffolk University, Boston University and Lesley College (another degree earned there)" - kretara

Let's take a closer look at that stellar academic resume of yours that you so kindly posted on your myspace page (click on blue name), shall we?

Parkview High School - 1983-1986 - high school diploma
U of A - Fayetteville - 1986-87 - no degree
UALR - 1987-1992 - no degree (after 5 years???)
UAMS - 1991-93 - ASSOCIATE'S DEGREE - Respiratory Therapy (while still attending UALR, I see)
Lesley University - 1997-98 - Bachelor's Degree - Management (glad to see you didn't let those 6 years at U of A and UALR go to waste)
Boston University - 1999 - "Professional" Degree - client/server development (isn't this an online degree program??? please correct me if i'm wrong)

I'm curious about that Lesley "degree." How did you (a man) get a degree in 1998 from an institution that wasn't co-ed until 2005? Just curious. Of course, I may be mistaken in the information I have presented. If so, please provide me with the correct information.

Haven't you tried to pull a fast one on the readers of this blog by tossing out all the colleges you "attended" when, in fact, you really only have a bachelor's degree that took you 7 years to earn????????? According to the information you provided, you NEVER attended UCA. You transfered from Fayetteville to UALR after one year. Could you please explain this discrepancy. Thanks a bunch.

You also left out your academic experience at Suffolk University. Exactly how long were you there and which degree did you obtain (if any)?

For all the wonderful guys on the blog

God was just about done creating humans, but he had two parts left over. He couldn't decide how to split them between Adam and Eve, so he thought he might just as well ask them.

He told them one of the things he had left was a thing that would allow the owner to pee while standing up. "It's a very hand thing," God told them, "and I was wondering if either one of you had a preference for it.

Well, Adam jumped up and down and begged, "Oh, please give that to me! I'd love to be able to do that. It seems like just the sort of thing a man should have. Please! Pleeease, give it to me!" On and on he went just like an excited little boy.

Eve just smiled and told God that if Adam really wanted it so badly, he could have it. So God gave Adam the thing that allowed him to pee standing up.

Adam was so excited he just started whizzing all over the place. He whizzed first on the side of a rock, then wrote his name in the sand, and then he tried to see if he could hit a stump ten feet away - laughing with delight all the while.

God and Eve watched him with amusement and then God said to Eve, "Well, I guess you're kind of stuck with the last thing I have to give". "What's it called?" asked Eve. "Brains", said God.

Now you know why men can pee standing up.

I know I'm old, I'm 46, but I do not understand why anyone would want to place a profile on MySpace et.al. My friends know about me; why do I want to let strangers poke around all the trivia of my life. I do not understand that need. As the world gets more info, your privacy is going to be as valuable as a virgin's hymen back in the middle ages.

Is that why they have dumb blonde jokes and they are always about females?

The comments about UCA were crappy, slydog. The education I received there was more than I could keep up with; and I had a few professors who had the qualifications/prestige to teach anywhere they wanted...simply outstanding. And I imagine the same can be said for many of our universities.

A wise and beloved teacher of mine helped me realize that you can get a great education anywhere...that it was up to me. Conversely, a closed-minded, ignorant fool can go to the most prestigious schools in the world and come out like...Monkeyboy. So much for an Ivy League education.

I don't know much about prestigious schools, UCA or what god gave the opposite sex, really don't care but
I WANT SOME OF WHAT PHAEDRUS IS SMOKING. Whew, must be some strong stuff.
.

Florida man held on charge he threatened to assassinate Obama.

Another good one by Garrison Keillor.

clicky

Priceless.

Me 'n Mama just came from Karaoke Night at Jose's in Springdale.
Finally, I realize that God didn't intend for everybody to sing.

"Kretara made some pretty nasty comments about "definitely second tier" (UCA) and the inadequate education offered there."

Slydog, if only it were just Kretara. And just UCA. I've been amazed at how threads supposedly about the antics of Lu Hardin have in so many instances been turned into nasty cesspools of totally unjustified criticisms of the state's institutions of higher learning in general, including but not limited to UCA, Hendrix, UALR, and the UA. All of this "second tier" and "third tier" nonsense, as though national school accreditation requires one thing in Arkansas and something more in New Hampshire or Washington State.

The commentary would be funny if not so ill informed. Why you'd think people take the U.S. News & World Report's college rankings and "tier" insanity seriously, as if those "rankings" were the product of objective scientific research which, of course, they're not. And you'd think the critics actually attended or were graduated by the schools they're damning. Perhaps a few have actually stepped on the campuses they're running down, but I'm guessing that the "Kretara's of the World" are the rule and not the exception. Oh, well, WTF? (forgive me, Norma.) And, hey, before I forget, Slydog: Remind me never to piss ya off.

There have been a lot of snide comments about Obama's suggestion to optimize tire pressure for better fuel efficiency.

You know, it would decrease gas usage by a fraction of a percentage, but it is one thing a person can do to make a difference.
If you haven't checked the tires by Monday, maybe you don't really care about the energy situation.

Do what you can.

Absolutely, Mudturtle. The question put to Obama was 'what can ordinary citizens do?' We can't do anything to the oil companies, Opec, or the speculators. All we can do are things that we can accomplish on a day to day basis like keeping our cars tuned up and tires aired properly. We can minimize trips to town and carpool.

Obama's answer was brilliant in that it addressed what WE can do as he was asked. McCain showed his ignorance with his rebuttal - IMO.

Personally, I keep 3000 miles worth of gasoline away from the oil companies each year for the past 6 years.

LOL: e It is free at top of the world near bear tooth pass.

MSNBC is reporting that the Obama campaign is going to let the Big Dawg speak on Wednesday night of the convention. (Click on my name.)

Do you get the feeling that this is just an empty gesture toward Hillary supporters? I still think her name should be placed in nomination that night. I think there are more Democratic insiders having second thoughts on Obama than they'd like to admit. One of the Washington papers said that "insiders" were upset that he wasn't fighting back against McSame more harder than he has in the past week.

One more time...

I'm so happy a 'cold' front has arrived. Hallelujah! The hell-heat was keeping me inside. I hate that.

My first moonflower bloomed, too. The scent is delectable.

And I found humor in your post, phaedrus.

It's a good night.

Hillary would make a great VP. Everyone knows that. Her only problem is that she's married to a loose cannon ex-President. Anyone with enough sense to be President would not want an ex-President sleeping with their vice-President. BIll wouldn't hesitate to undercut Obama if he wanted to get his way, and he really likes to get his way.

Thanks Zelda. I know I have a pore sence of humorand english.

You make a good point Republicans for Obama, but something tells me that Hillary and Bill haven't shared a bed in years. I really do think they lead completely separate lives and come together for the cameras and family related matters. I think if Hillary were VP, Bill would continue on with his foundation work and would hardly be noticed. Call me naive if you will, but I just don't think Hillary would allow Bill to have much say in what happens in an Obama White House. She knows this is her warm up act to run in 2016. She's not going to to do anything to screw that up. I think she would tell Bill to stick a sock in it if he got too mouthy in front of the press.

thanks, Jazzy: You may not be the Mayflower, but you certainly came across on that GK post.

Now phaedrus, I think you have an exsalent sence of humor/english. I just disagree with most everything you sed.

Wish you were here to share my moonflowers with me, jazzy...a glass of wine, too. I have a feeling we'd have a nice chat...and lots of laughter.

Thanks Ozark.....I think. I know I'm older than dirt but, was not around when the
Mayflower landed at Plymouth, Mass.

Miz Zelda,,,love to be with you and your Moonflowers.............what the hell are Moonflowers??
wasn't that a song back in 60's...70's????

Laid low with a couple broken ribs, fallin around again....have some happy pills to allow me to
sit here a moment.

Now phaedrus, I think you have an exsalent sence of humor/english. I just disagree with most everything you sed. >Zelda

Serious I had to hunt and peck all day. You are giving me too much credit.

"Laid low with a couple broken ribs, fallin around again . "

Oh come now, jazzy. Do you expect us to believe that fallin' around bidness? Fess up, kiddo. You and Frenchie's done jumped into the rough sex stuff again. Nevertheless, get well soon and enjoy them happy pills while they last!

No, not everyone knows that hillary would be a great anything. First, she has absolutely no chance of being obama's VP. She brings too much baggage. He doesn't want to be upstaged by his vp for the rest of his presidency. Secondly, hillary is already making plans for 12. She is banking on obama losing and she wants to be around to say 'I told you so'. Bill is a huge amount of baggage. He doesn't want to explain where he got the funding for his library. Unfortunately, she will be just as inexperienced to hold a chief executive's job in four more years as she is now.

Awwwwww Durango,,,leave it to you to OUT me!!!!!!!!!!!!
what is that song I'm thinking of????
MOONFLOWER.........big hit in 60....70's
found one on youtube but not what I'm thinking of.

Jazzy, is this it?

Of course, this was their best.

jaz,
If you truly don't know about moonflowers by all means get some seeds, be patient, treat them well.
The most gorgeous flower on earth. They change your life.
.

OK eLwood, I'll admit to hanging out with Phaedrus tonight.

You know, as a graduate of a 'second tier' school in this state, and as someone who knows some Ivy Leaguers, here's my take. Every one of those Ivy League graduates don't know much more than I. Hell, a business professor at UALR told us that he saw some first tier B-school grads come in and offer up the least detail he'd ever seen on the most glaringly obvious crap (and nothing more than that, just umm you need to reduce your debt and increase your cash on hand), but because they went to Harvard, they were qualified to work for a big consulting firm and charge mega bucks to do something you could have hired someone with a high school degree and a year of night accounting classes to tell you. The key is this: these big paychecks they bring down are not as much an effect of what they learn, but who you meet (and what supper clubs/secret societies you enter) or what you have on your resume.

Now I know lots of folks from UAF who have a very big chip on their shoulder and will remind you every waking day they are better than you because they went to school where the Walton's pay for everything to fit their views. Frankly, I'd rather have a good unbiased education without the fancy smancy stuff.

Thot of it.....this is what I had in my brain....loved Cat Stevens....knew it was Moon..
something or other....
Elwood, can't say I know a thing about Moonflowers.....do you have to camp out at night
to see them???? with all the varmits here on the lake??? I'll pass.

Enjoy Cat

clicky

Phaedrus,

<<<<<<<
Corporation ... bottom lne, etc.

Now when API finds a mark in government they then tell the oil companies to donate to that person. So the breakdown occurs with the politician who is the check and balance of capitalism and it is not the oil companies.
<<<<<<<

Agreed, this is what they will always do.. it's up to us to hold them back aka regulation. However, there are other legal and yes, moral imperatives as well.

That's is where government comes in.. Hopefully run by folks who believe in government.. Clearly that is not McCain or the GOP or the Blue Dog type of Dems.

These days it seems more idealistic than true, but it is not now nor will it ever be my idea of what our government should be about. but I believe in competent regulation.. Andy made Barney pocket his bullet for good reason.

The power of corporate contributions in buying our government decision making must be nullified.. the people should have the loudest if not only voice.. not the dollar or the corporation leading in the function of a Democracy.

Mccain lets lobbyists tell him what to do and write his proposed legislation. He admits himself he knows next to nothing about economics. Which is pretty scary considering all that "experience" in the Senate. He plays it off like it's cute and honest..but at this point in 26 years federal office experience..it's a sign of being a pretty dim bulb and a willing puppet.

McCain has been absolutely unable to perform his duties as a Senator while campaigning against no one through the primary season. He can't even show up for votes. How is he going to juggle the incredible demands of being a president?

A man who withstood torture as a POW..and spoke against torture for years until Bushco bullied him into throwing away the last shred of honor he might have had. Where is the self respect in that?

McCains very bad temperament is famous and scares even a lot of pretty mean spirited fellow Republicans. He is in it for McCain, nothing else..and he really has no ideas or cares beyond that. If you want president K street deluxe, vote McCain.

The rest is looking at who the candidates surround themselves with.. If you think McCain is anything much better than Darth Cheney.. you ought to look again.

The McMan has no ideas of his own after all this time, doesn't that strike anyone as a bit strange? And seems not the least bit disturbed with far to many things gone terribly awry in the last 8 years.

So turn him into some imaginary NASCAR hero if you want.. but be sure and patent that blend of koolaid when you get the mix just right.. I'm sure the kids at the local disco (and the big oil lobbying firms) would pay a pretty penny for a glass or two of it.

Well, I missed. This one isn't bad either though.

Good news from Memphis tonight. Max posted yesterday on DLC Harold Ford and Blue Dog Rahm Emmanuels funding the freaky Dem named Tinker... trying to overthrow a good Dem named Steve Cohen.

100 PERCENT REPORTING:

Steve Cohen* (D / Inc.) 50,284 79%
Nikki Tinker (D) 11,814 19%

Elwood is right, jazzy.. Moonflowers will change your life! So will night blooming cyrris (sp?) but they require year round indoor care and can take years to bloom in our part of the country.

"You know, as a graduate of a 'second tier' school in this state, and as someone who knows some Ivy Leaguers, here's my take. Every one of those Ivy League graduates don't know much more than I."

I am thinking that perhaps that is because the only Ivy Leaguers you know could only find jobs in Arkansas. The good ones are in the major financial centers.

I have taught in the business departments at Vanderbilt and UALR. Perhaps the 3 top students are similar, but if think that the UALR students as a group compare to those at first tier schools you are delusional.

"With a little more luck, I might have been able to ask you to be my Vice-President." - John McCain
to Dick Cheney, 10/23/01

ES,,,years to bloom, are you kidding??? I don't even buy green bananas.
Goodnight all,,,,,,,,,gonna see if I can lay in my bed or have to catnap in my recliner with
my constant companion heating pad..........wish it was 5 a.m. and another night over.

"Now I know lots of folks from UAF who have a very big chip on their shoulder and will remind you every waking day they are better than you because they went to school where the Walton's pay for everything to fit their views. Frankly, I'd rather have a good unbiased education without the fancy smancy stuff." --- anoncow

anoncow, just to clear up something, I want you to know that I'm a graduate of the University of Arkansas (Fayetteville campus). Several others here on the blog have also, over time, identified themselves as such. Neither I nor they (as best I can tell) have a chip on our shoulder. Nor do any of us think we're better than you. And certainly, there's nothing fancy smancy about us, at least speaking for myself.

The Walton tribe is but one clan that has given mega millions to the UA. I don't know of any students who feel the views of the Waltons or other big donors have been fed to them. With all due respect to Max Brantley, the "Walton U" moronics is simply Max entertaining himself. However, like anything else in this town, if it's said three times by Brantley or anybody else, it becomes "true." Sort of like Will Rogers who said all he knew was what he read in the paper.

You're a UALR grad? I hope you take pride in the fact. I've never taken a class there, but I know a number of profs out there and have enormous respect for them and the school. I've heard students who transferred there from Fayetteville and elsewhere say that the classroom competition at UALR is much tougher than the school from which they transferred because of the mix of older students who are paying their own way, take their studies very seriously, and set very high grading curves.

I'll have to take their word for it, since I wouldn't know firsthand. Nor do I want to enroll in a course to find out firsthand. Thank God my school days are long since over. Happy trails to ya, and make the most of that UALR degree!

Yours truly,

Durango the chipless-shouldered non-fancy smancy UA grad

Ha! jazzy, I only buy green naners so I don't have to go to town so often. About 6.00 worth of ethel just to run to the store and back these days. At least the heat wave passed.. We had a nice rain and it dropped around twenty degrees today. To cool to run a fan tonight.

Hope you feel better real soon.

For my goodnite story about college educations, for what it's worth:

Many years ago I attended Cowpoly in Russelville for 18 months and shared a place with a bright fellow from St Louis. Lee, a chemistry major with a minor in bidness, spent the summer before his senior year as an intern for Monsanto doing price modeling. His prior Air Force training gave him the necessary computer skills he needed which back then, 42 yrs ago, was rare among college students. While completing his summer internship he interviewed with the VP of Monsanto for Personnel. Lee expressed his doubts about his being able to make it at a Fortune 500 company because of his inferior education at a small Ark college. The VP stretched back and put his feet on his 8 foot desk and replied "Well, Lee, I graduated from Henderson State Teachers College in Arkadelphia myself." Lee took a position with Monsanto the next year and quickly moved on to Dupont, then became international buyer for the second largest chemical company in the world headquartered in London, GB. 10 years later he personally encouraged the development of a certain co-polymer used to strengthen aircraft and spacecraft material. The company said it wasn't feasible. He quit Imperial Chemical and founded his own company, developed the co-polymer compound and today earns millions per year. His colleagues at Monsanto who were from MIT, and Harvard MBA's retired from their jobs at the company where they began.
G'nite.

Oh, almost forgot. NormaBates, if you're wandering thru this one's for you.
clik name

Oh lord, TV has made everything a game show. The mess the USA is in right now isn't a game show. One man or woman cannot fix the problems we face now or in the future. We'll need to elect 12 Presidents to ever hope to dig ourselves out of the Cheney-Bush mess. We've got years of work ahead of us at near impossible odds. No normal administration will work this time around....Obama will have to have a super administration.

Hillary Clinton got nearly 18 million votes before she dropped out. Obama needs all of them if he hopes to beat the Republican Dirty Tricks Team in November. Picking Hillary as his running mate would help insure an Obama victory in November. Piss on Bill Clinton all you want, but the rest of the world loves him. Someone in the Obama administration is going to have to go around the world smoothing all the ruffled feathers and Bill Clinton is the one American who can do it. We need some friends, in case you haven't noticed. Instead of dropping bombs, we need to buy the world a Coke, we need to stop using the entire might of the United States to barely convict chauffeurs in secret trials where every card is stacked against them. Nothing else this year has demonstrated how weak America-AT&T has become.

The neo-con Republicans have never been more dangerous. We have them backed in the corner like the rats they are. If they don't win this election by hook or crook, many of them are going to prison for the rest of their lives. They'll lose all the power they've stolen, they'll lose the billions they've been willing to kill to get. The chances of an honest election are zero, the chances of having an election at all are 50-50 at best. It's time Democrats start pulling together and drop the small stuff. Political Armageddon is right around the corner. We need every Democrat from one level above Blanche Lincoln on up to fall in line and prepare for the worst. To the criminals in power today, an Obama Presidency must not happen and they'll do everything in their super increased power to stop it. Unite or die......

OMG, eLwood! You understand!

"Wandering thru" is pretty much my existential gestalt. YOU are the only one to pick up on that.

As we speak, I'm at Bridgeway. They're trying to decide if I'm, you know:

1) a widdle bit schizo / psycho and what meds to prescribe, or . . .

2) an alien abductee and what meds to prescribe, or . . .

3) an actual alien and what meds to prescribe, or . . .

4) just another over-self-medicated Chenal housewife hooked on Mai-Tai's and Armani muumuus with delusions of intergalactic grandeur (me, not the muumuus, since, let's face facts, inanimate objects like muumuus can't get hooked on Mai-Tais and weed, like I keep trying to tell Bridgeway's staff) and what meds to prescribe.

Bridgeway is seriously into prescription meds. We're not talking your generic $4 shit at Wal-Mart. We're talking SERIOUSLY break-the-bank Republican prescription shizz.

Wait, eLwood. You'll be proud! Proud, I tell you.

My glowing index finger just freaked out the Bridgeway staff and got me kicked out when I phoned home!

Uh, "released."

Thanks for the link, eLwood. My peeps.

OMG, the Mother Ship is descending over Pinnacle Mountain!

Home!

There's some pretty heavy hitters on the site, Norma, once household names, back when America was America...
BB (before Bush), and we looked forward to our space program with excitement, the Great Hope, the Final Frontier, unifying America and the Whorl. Now we learn NASA is part and parcel of DoD capturing alien technology and hiding it. Keeping unknown super energy systems away from us, even presidents cannot get at it. Not Jimmy, not Raygun, not Clinton...all tried to see it, examine it. No, NEED 2 KNOW won out. But still, need to know WHAT?
I wonder if aliens use meds? Are they just bots with sensory parts? Or is this my meds producing illusions?
Just a bad pair of new bifocals.
Hurri on home from Bridgeway.

I have a friend in NYC who is a sky diver and writer. Dave says such things like secret alien life come up in collective consciousness when society is about to embark on a major paradigm shift. It's not for sissies says he.

I just knew that when I got up this morning and checked this thread that Kretara would have cleared everything up about his educational background. Isn't it amazing how the topic of honesty, transparency, and integrity isn't so interesting any more when it's about you and how you aren't?

I am proud of the degrees I earned at Arkansas public institutions - BS Zoology U of A Fayetteville, 1983 and MS Educational Media/Library Science from UCA, 1997. The only thing you get out of an education is what you put into it.

Ah, jazzy, broken ribs...dang...sounds very painful. Hope you've got the right meds and some good folk to help out.

Moonflowers are similar to morning glories, except they're a vine that blooms at night...and they will change your life. (Ah...fellow moonflower lovers, elwood/eureka...knew we were kindred spirits.) Huge white glorious flowers that smell like heaven...easy to grow, too. Bet I've got 10-20 of the vines going and when they bloom...ahhh. The night moths love them, I love them. If I could just bottle the scent. I'll TRY to take a picture and send it, ha. Better yet...do the google thing...though the pics don't do them justice and the scent ain't there

I still hunt/peck most times, phaedrus. Never did master typing like I should have. By the time my errors are factored in I'm just about in the negative, ha.

I've given up on Obama giving Hill/Bill the political respect I'd like to see given...the respect that Hillary deserves. But at this point I don't care much about anything other than keeping McSame from continuing Monkeyboy's decimation of the things I hold dear.

I'm officially boycotting the horrid Olympics. Watching President Shit for Brains and his family partying with fellow thugs in Beijing is sickening. Perhaps they can swap torture stories...stories about Guantanamo and labor camps...getting corporations to spy on citizens...how turning citizens into slaves helps the economy...how slave labor built the Olympics...how stomping on a country is different if America is financially dependent on the aggressor. Yup, the world can be proud of the Olympics that slave labor/tyranny brought us. And, our prez can explain why Saddam was an evil thug but China isn't. It's surreal and doesn't say much about the future of our world. Lots of glitz/money masking environmental decimation and a police state...looks like our country under Republican rule. Looks like our future if McSame continues Chief Idiot's decimation.

Yeppers, eLwood.

Here's my deal. This blog is fun, except for the trolls. But even they EXIST, and have a right to be here.

I have a friend dying of colorectal cancer at St. Vincent. There's a crucifix in every room. But no proselytizing from the staff. Just great nurses, orderlies and doctors. Even the morning and evening "prayers," broadcast throughout the campus over the PA, simply refer to "our Lord," never "Jesus." Everybody can accept that, I think.

Cancer cells just want to live and reproduce, like all cells and organisms want to live. Like sharks. Like the world's most poisonous snake, the "Fierce Snake" (Oxyuranus microlepidotus). Cancer cells EXIST, until they kill their hosts.

Love exists to reproduce and thrive.

So too, ignorant bigots. So too, hate lives to thrive and reproduce. We've only to look at certain posters on this thread.

We all just wanna live and reproduce.

So, eLwood, the astonishing statement from astronaut Edgar Mitchell last month regarding the massive presences of "alien" crafts and "aliens." HUGELY disregarded by the MSM.

"Astonishing" not because Mitchell's statement is "new." Anybody who's followed this topic for the past few decades knows of over 300 military leaders and NASA engineers and airline pilots who've said the same things. Just in the USA. Thousands more equally qualified personnel around the world have reported the same encounters.

The MSM and government agencies ask us to "believe" that all these highly-trained military professionals are suddenly "nuts," despite decades of accumulated factual evidence. It's all "weather balloons" and "swamp gas."

As you know, eLwood, the ancient Mayan calendar (still the most accurate on earth) ends in 2011. Rather than marking "the end of the world," as some have it, it marks "the end of the world as we know it."

The "signs" are all there. Global warming. Rising sea levels. The end of religions, their final conflagration, and the emergence of the "human" Age of Aquarius, the Water Bearer, as the Precession of the Equinoxes moves from Pisces into Aquarius over the next 150 years.

You alone, on this thread, eLwood, understand what I'm saying.

It is a terrifying, magnificent epoch in human evolution. Like Ages gone before. It's the End of Times (Religions) and the Birth of Times (Reason).

Hence the desperate, brutal, last-ditch efforts of Religions to enforce their once-unquestioned grip on the collective Mind of the World.

They're dying.

Look at the empty pews in Europe.

Truths and facts, thanks to the internet's instant access, are trumping superstition and fascist religious authorities.

The internet's become the Global Mind, the Global Community, in the last 20 years.

People are thinking for themselves. Informing themselves. Men in dresses, presuming to speak for "God," look increasingly foolish.

Totalitarian countries like China are frightened and helpless, no matter their internet "censorship" efforts.

The Olympics, thankfully, exposes China for the venal, weak, desperate country it is. Sure, China holds all the money . . . for a time. But their innate fear of the "outside" is the foundation of their own ultimate self-destruction and downfall, exactly like Nazi Germany's fear of "outsiders."

It's a given. We see it over and over, throughout human history.

Totalitarian regimes are founded on fear. Which is to say, weakness.

Now.

eLwood. Thanks for your link to your UFO site, and its voluminous quotations going back to Eisenhower.

It will be ridiculed, because the sheep have been well-trained to laugh and not investigate.

Those of us who aren't sheep say, "Hmm. Is this true?" Then investigate for ourselves.

Turns out it IS true. Unless you (I) want to claim we are better informed tha 300+ NASA astronauts, engineers, pilots, etc. Plus thousands more equally qualified scientists around the world.

I'm not that arrogant.

I DO know this.

The world, our earth, is at the tipping point in terms of global warming, overpopulation, religious warfare (do you even KNOW what's happening in Darfur? In Africa?), extinction of species . . . all caused by human hubris . . .

If, as the ancient Mayan calendar ends, we are finally contacted by sentient beings from "out there" in the next three years . . . and, as astronaut Edgar Mitchell says (and hundreds of others), (to paraprhase) . . . "They're not hostile. Their technology is so far advanced from ours that they would have eliminated us, had they wanted to." . . . .

IF contact happens, it immediately makes our preoccupations with race, religion, sexual orientation, nationality and partisan politics look exactly what they are: petty, inconsequential and meaningless.

Who knows?

Look to the skies.

jazzy, will be in your fair town today. Keep the juice (electricity) on.

the ancient Mayan calendar (still the most accurate on earth) ends in 2011. Rather than marking "the end of the world," as some have it, it marks "the end of the world as we know it." - NB

"And I feel fine." - REM

Actually it is December 21, 2012. I remind my young children of that, since their great-great-great Grandmother was a Maya princess. You would think that it would scare them but, knowing my skepticism regarding all things religious/superstitious, they just grin.

Jazz.............!! So sorry! Hope you are getting better fast - ribs hurt!

Zelda - I love moonflowers. Makes me think of Hawaii and all the gorgeous blossoms everywhere. Enjoy enough for me too, please.

Zelda, one 5 min. speech where MO says she is sorry for ever having said she "would have to think about whether or not she would support Hillary Clinton, were she to win the nomination", followed by a statement by BO that he is sorry that supporters branded other good Democrats as playing the race card when pointing out truths about the difficulties he would face and that he will no longer tolerate his campaign giving a wink and nod to those charges, would shut down the PUMA's and take all the air out of the Democrats against Obama. It wasn't the loss of the nomination, it was the smearing of other Democrats that continues to feed the division. No one owes him their support, but he needs all he can get and it isn't too much to expect nor to ask. I guess we will see.

They have to know they need all those supporters, and only pride and an inability to bend a little will make this race close. If he can't bring himself to be the bigger person, then he may have to steal the election, and that's okay with me too. Whatever gets the job done.

Norma, you are certainly free to believe what you want to believe, but characterizing all those who are skeptical of alien visitation and saucer claims as sheep is just wrong. In fact, some of us have looked into the matter a great deal and just happen to draw very different conclusions. I doubt most skeptics inherently trust the government at all. I know I certainly don't. But I also don't trust circumstantial evidence, rumor or poorly made websites and videos. In order to believe, I need first hand, hard scientific proof. The burden of proof is on your side. If a NASA whistle blower would come forth with something indisputable, alien DNA maybe, the world would be forced to believe.

For the record, I don't doubt the existence of other life forms in the universe. On the contrary, I'd say the odds are great that the universe is filled with life both substantially more and less complicated than ours.

But I do have serious doubts about our "aliens." Why would they be bipedal humanoid looking creatures? This anthropomorphic view of aliens strikes me as awfully similar to how we created God in our own image. Little people with big eyes. Why? Why not giant amoeba with feathers?

You put a lot of stock in your 300 NASA scientists and others around the world. I won't dispute the number because I have no way of knowing what the actual number is. I'll give you 300 NASA scientists. Without solid evidence it doesn't matter to me. It's all circumstantial. I would point out that many of the venerable people quoted on the website also believe that Jesus was the son of God and died for our sins. In fact a lot of very bright scientists believe this. I gather from your other posts that you dont. If you're going to trust them on the aliens, why not on God? I'll tell you why I don't. No matter how many intelligent people tell me something is true, if it strikes me as highly illogical and I have no first had evidence of it, I'm under no obligation to believe them.

You might say, "But there is hard evidence, the government is just keeping it from us." That could be true. I have no way to dispute that. But if I entertain that notion, I also have to entertain several others that strike me as just as likely. The government has lied to these astronauts and officials about secret testing of other aircraft. These people are in cahoots with the government to leak false and tantalizing stories about aliens to distract us from something more sinister. Alien stories are inside jokes for astronauts. I can't dispute any of these either.

There are a lot more things I find illogical about these alien stories but I'll leave with this one: I find it very hard to believe that scientists who know first hand about walking, talking, humanoid aliens could get so schoolgirl giddy about scraping dust off the surface of Mars to look for evidence of water.

Yeah, I agree with Moxie.

Here is what I can say with complete confidence:
1) Aliens do exist in our Universe.
2) No alien being has ever communicated in any meaningful way with an Earthling.
3) No alien being will ever communicate in any meaningful way with an Earthling.

The Universe is infinitely vast and incredibly, although measureably, old. Human life on Earth is very young. The idea of an alien race being advanced enough to make it to Earth within our existence on it... The odds just don't work out in your favor.

If "they" knew we were here and could reach us physically, why wouldn't they be in constant communication with SETI? Want to convince me about "little green men?" Get me one scientist from SETI they says they've made contact.

Only Good: It is certainly good, and reassuring, to have confidence in your own conclusions.

"Here is what I can say with complete confidence:
1) Aliens do exist in our Universe.
2) No alien being has ever communicated in any meaningful way with an Earthling.
3) No alien being will ever communicate in any meaningful way with an Earthling."

1. And your confidence that aliens do exist in our universe is based upon what? Anything more than your opinion?

2. And your confidence that no alien being has ever communicated . . . is based upon what? You have evidence of all events of all past time since earthlings have been around and therefore can prove that not one of those events involves meaningful communication?

3. An your confidence that no alien being will ever communicate . . . is based upon what? You are omniscient and know all of the future?

It has been only around two hundred years (if my faulty memory is not betraying me again) since an intelligent man demonstrated "logical proof" (as opposed to "substantive proof") with this example: "We can say with certainty that no man has ever set foot on the moon. And we can say with certainty that no man ever will."

Unfortunately, he wasn't still around when men did set foot on the moon. But in HIS day, that was accepted as absolute truth. Even when I was still a child, that was the conventional wisdom on this planet. So there is a difference between "logical proof" and "substantive proof," or, as I prefer to term it, "substantive evidence." "Evidence" is what you have; "proof" is whatever it takes to convince someone.

That's the main reason that when someone says, "Prove . . . (whatever)," my first question is, "What will you accept as evidence?"

I would simply observe that "never" ("no . . . has ever") is a universal absolute that is impossible to prove. I'd be interested in your proof of a negative.

And I would simply observe that "never" ("no . . . will ever") is a universal absolute that is impossible to prove. I'd still be interested in your proof of a negative, most especially when it involves the future. I have yet to meet a man who "knows" the future! And proving future events is pretty tricky. And, in my opinion, proving the ABSENCE of future events is even trickier.

But I'm glad you can do all this with complete confidence.

Sky Pilot, excellent point about evidence and proof. I think SETI considers intelligent radio communications emanating from deep space to be evidence.

Moxie: I certainly would accept intelligible signals received by SETI as evidence.

My inference from Only Good's statement is that he would REQUIRE one statement from someone connected with SETI, and that would be the only thing he would accept as evidence.

His "if-then, why?" "argument" holds no merit for me. There could be a jillion reasons. Beside that, to me a question is not an argument.

The implication is that if some "little green men" landed at Crawford and had a tete-a-tete with GWB without sending messages through SETI, Only Good would still not believe it ever happened.

I'm open to more forms of evidence than he. And I would not be as willing to discount all testimony as he.

If questions are arguments, I would pose these two:

Why was President Carter not allowed to see the evidence?

Why was President Clinton not allowed to see the evidence?

Of course, the answer very welll COULD be that there ISN'T ANY EVIDENCE.

But if that were the case, that raises another question: Why would the agencies go to such lengths to cover up the ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE?

Logic would lead me to conclude that they either (1) have evidence of something they don't want anyone else to see or (2) they don't have any evidence of anything and don't want anyone else to find that out.

SkyPilot... Fair enough, dude.

Here you go:
Opinion #1, #2 and #3 are based on the Drake equation:
http://www.lifeinuniverse.org/noflash/Drakeequation-07-02.html

There are nearly infinite numbers of planets in the Universe. There are a ridiculous number that are similar to Earth, (IE. orbit close to a star with some sort of moon orbiting them.) There is a pretty big chance that one of those planets has some form of life on them. I'm not saying people or green men or guys with big dark eyes. I mean single celled organisms. That would be an alien. Disagree?

Almost any of those planets that happen to have some lifeform on them which would have become advanced enough to communicate with us (that means have some sort of conversation) is likely to at least be outside of our own solar system. Disagree?

Alpha Centauri is the closest star. Let's assume it has a planet with advanced aliens living on it. They are over 4 light years away. So, if they could send a message at the speed of light, it would take us 4 years to get it. Then, if we knew how to respond to it also at the speed of light, it would take us 4 years to respond. That's a strech. My guess is that these particular advanced aliens would probably be much further out. I base that on the fact the SETI has been looking for a long time and found nothing.

Humans have existed on Earth for about a 500,000 years. We have only had space exploration technology for about 60 years. Maybe today we would have the technology to recieve and respond to such a message. There are only about 2,000 stars within a 50 lightyear distance of Earth. That would be about one message and one response in a human lifetime. That is, if you believe that the odds are good that there is an advanced alien lifeform within 50 lightyears of Earth trying to communicate with other planets.

It hasn't happened yet, according to SETI. The world is going to destroy itself soon, according to NormaBates. Seems like those aliens are playing one hell of a game of pin the tail on the donkey to me.

In any case, the beauty of your response is that you both disagree with me that aliens exist. Then you act like I'm an idiot for saying those non-existent aliens have communicated with us in the past.

There is no credible or even compelling evidence that #2 has ever happened. Don't try to point to these web sites with the quotes from NASA scientists. Anyone can go nuts one day and say something ridiculous with any number of motivations for doing so. It doesn't make it true and it isn't "evidence."

There is no way for me to prove that aliens exist or will never communicate with us (#1 and #3). I am just playing the odds.

SkyPilot says:
"Logic would lead me to conclude that they either (1) have evidence of something they don't want anyone else to see or (2) they don't have any evidence of anything and don't want anyone else to find that out."

Oh my god! You're right!

So, what part of that makes it aliens? I have no doubt that government did something they don't want people to know about. Be it embarassing, or god forbid, illegal. Could you come up with another equally unlikely conspiracy theory that could explain it away? Possibly involving some sort of monsters from Japan?

You being "open to more forms of evidence" is just another way of saying gullible.

Only Good: Well, let's see Dude. Maybe we're not so far apart after all.

The Drake Equation is fascinating:

"How accurate is the current estimate of N?
"The problem is that while some of the factors involved in the evaluation of Rcc are reasonably well known, we can only make educated guesses for others. Neither do we have any real idea of the typical value for L (More on L), so our final estimate for N is not expected to be accurate.

"In fact it has been said that the Drake Equation is a way of encapsulating a lot of ignorance in a small space! Evaluations of N in the early days of SETI were probably on the optimistic side with values of up to 1,000,000 considered possible.

"Some now say that intelligent civilisations will arise only rarely and thus that we might be the only one existing in our Galaxy at the present time. The true answer will no doubt lie somewhere in between and the SETI projects could perhaps be regarded as an experimental way of finding the answer of how often advanced civilisations arise."

Even so, that may give us a pretty good probability that life forms exist outside our planet. No argument there.

"I mean single celled organisms. That would be an alien. Disagree?"

I don't disagree with you conclusion. I disagree with your definition.

This part of the thread started with statements from people who were talking about UFO sightings and speculation about visits by aliens onto this planet. That's the conventional use of the term as I typically understand it.

I think you're throwing a very wide loop to include ANY life form in the term "alien," as a noun, as it was being used in this thread. If you intended to throw that wide a loop, you might have defined your term in your initial post.

If you're saying that no single-celled life form from another planet has ever communicated in any meaningful way with an Earthling, I wouldn't argue the point. In fact, it would be senseless even to discuss.

I doubt if any of these single-celled life forms has ever made contact with SETI.

And the same goes for your "No alien being will ever . . . " contention.

I thought we were talking about the same thing, but I see we weren't. My error.

Seems I was misled by your offer: "Want to convince me about "little green men?""

But in reply to my post you say, "I'm not saying people or green men or guys with big dark eyes. I mean single celled organisms. "

You're the one who introduced "little green men." If that isn't what you were talking about, why did you say that?

I don't care to attempt to wade through more. If you're going to shift the subject from what the thread was about and then contradict yourself in your own communications, I'll yield the floor.

Enjoy yourself.

I love being misquoted.

"Norma, you are certainly free to believe what you want to believe, but characterizing all those who are skeptical of alien visitation and saucer claims as sheep is just wrong." - Moxiemoron

Absolutely right, Moxie. Only I didn't say it. Here's what I actually said, if you read it.

"It [eLwood's link to prominent leaders' UFO quotations] will be ridiculed, because the sheep have been well-trained to laugh and not investigate.

"Those of us who aren't sheep say, 'Hmm. Is this true?' Then investigate for ourselves.

"Turns out it [these and other quotations from prominent scientists] IS true. Unless you (I) want to claim we are better informed than 300+ NASA astronauts, engineers, pilots, etc. Plus thousands more equally qualified scientists around the world."

That's what I actually said.

I find it hard to believe so many scientists, like astronaut Edgar Mitchell, in the US and around the world are lying about their experiences across the past decades when they know they will be officially and publicly ridiculed.

"The world is going to destroy itself soon, according to NormaBates." - The Only Good Is Knowledge.

Except I didn't say that. Nor do I believe the earth will destroy itself soon. Here's what I actually said regarding the end of the Mayan calendar.

"Rather than marking 'the end of the world,' as some have it, it marks 'the end of the world as we know it.'"

That can mean anything from formation of a world government to man-made ecological disasters to alien contact or a number of other scenarios, or a combination of scenarios.

In some ways, in fact, 9/11 marked "the end of the world as we know it." So did the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima.

I repeatedly said "if" in my speculations - since I don't pretend to know.

Well, actually I DO know but I'm not telling.

Oh and I should have clarified "alien." Doesn't mean their extra terrestrial aliens. I asked could they be
"bots" ?

Would it be difficult to imagine or assume in a galaxy not too far away say a civilization began it's equivalence of an Industrial Age 500 years before we Earthlings began ours. Now 500 years is really nothing in terms of Earth time. Piff! A spot on the table of time. Consider what's occurred since our Industrial revolution began 300 years ago. Not too difficult to factor in where we could be 200 years hence.

About SETI. Suppose Marconi and Associates or George Westinghouse, N.Tesla or T. Edison had been listening for other worldly things back in the 1920s and microwaves were beamed at them from out there? So while a few of you fellows ridicule the reports of humanoid-like aliens you accept that in far away galaxies signals will be sent or captured here that are similar to ours and contain patterns we can understand using electronic or energy types we comprehend.
Strange.

eLwood, I think you're either confusing me and Only Good or you're assuming too much from what I said in my second post. I assume you're referring to me as a fellow ridiculing humanoid aliens. I never said I put much stock in SETI, although the idea of radio beams sent from another planet in a form we can comprehend seems much more feasible than interplanetary travel of humanoid aliens or robots from a nearby galaxy. When I say much more feasible, however, I don't in any way mean likely. A lot of scientists think SETI and the Drake equation are a joke. The Drake equation has so many variables the outcome could be 1 or 100 trillion, making it pretty much meaningless. Personally, I have no problem with them looking for radio beams from space and I have no problem with scientists investigating the UFO phenomenon. I just doubt they'll ever find anything, in part for the reasons you mention. But mainly because even if we assume we can comprehend alien signals, the odds of us stumbling across one are infinitesimal.