Arkansas Blog

Speaking of dumping chicken litter on the land...Seems today's NWA edition of ArkDoG is all about
head rooster and chicken litter

http://www.nwanews.com/adg/ for the pic

And blue name for Federal Judge ruling that the "science" behind litter polluting
streams is not valid. Not kidding.

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Let me again take this opportunity to thank the Arkansas Times for all the hard questions they asked Mr. Beebe during the 2006 election.

Well, if the naysayers are right this will be a moot point anyway because nobody will have the liquidity to purchase these bonds. How quickly we forget about our frozen credit markets. It would be interesting to follow these bonds if we don't get the bailout.

Well Max, I'm glad you've actually talked to both sides about this issue to portray the entire picture. And I'm especially glad to see your contempt for agriculture--the backbone of our state's economy. I hope the next time you eat a serving of rice or so that you think of the "water plundering" farmers who grew it for ya. Unless, of course, you grew it in your backyard.

eLwood, I read the article. I was looking forward to continuing my pleasureable indignation at Republican Federal Judges heavy handedly coming down on the side of corporate America. Sure enough, this guy was appointed by W. just last year. However, I have to admit that you misrepresented his decision. He didn't rule the science was not valid. He ruled that it had not been properly validated. That's a big difference. If the plaintiffs can get their evidence validated by objective sources, then I assume that it will be allowed into evidence at trial. Call me a hair-splitter, but courts can't assume that every expert witness is truly an expert.

But not to worry. I have plenty of other places to enjoy my righteous indignation at corporate greed, etc. There seems to be a daily Palin eruption.

Is it just me or does her voice sound like finger nails on a chalkboard?

"a bailout for farmers who've wantonly plundered Arkansas's water resources."

Do enlighten us how farmers waste water? Do you realize how ignorant that sounds?

Do you really think farmers plunder water given what it costs to pump it? They use water to grow food for our fat asses Max.

OK, eark wins the loudest screen splattering laugh of the day.. so far.

""a bailout for farmers who've wantonly plundered Arkansas's water resources."

Do enlighten us how farmers waste water? Do you realize how ignorant that sounds?"

Not really. Farmers WASTE billions if not trillions of gallons of water a year. Ever seen all those farms in the desert? Even the crops that Arkansas is famous for growing can be grown in less water intensive ways. USDA and others have tons of info on ways farmers COULD conserve water. Would they be putting energy into that if farmers weren't wasting any water?

"Farming accounts for 70 percent of the water consumed and most of its wasteful use, said representatives of 130 nations at the World Water Forum discussing water management."

While we're on the water and bail-outs could someone explain the difference in the bail out proposed for financial markets and the annual bail-out given to farmers? You would think after
60 years of bailing out farmers they could figure out how to make it without the welfare.

I'm sure Riceland folks will disagree. But somehow we have an abundance of affordable non-welfare crops, like all our fruits and veggies, milk, eggs, poultry, beef,pork.

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The level of ignorance of those who've never worked on a farm never ceases to amaze me. Of course, farmers could use less water (so could all of you..ever wash your car?). Hell farmers could let their crops burn up and harvest a fraction of what they do. And then all of you would be bitching about the high prices of food.

If you don't want farmers to use water then stop eating food. They idea that farmers "waste" water is laughable. There may be a few that do because there are always exceptions. It costs a lot of money to pump water and to irrigate. It's not a fun process either. Farmers don't water (money).

"You would think after 60 years of bailing out farmers they could figure out how to make it without the welfare."

Well if farmers could set the price of their products like other businesses, they could. That's not the way it works however. The only solution other than farm programs is to quit farming. Do any of you realize how low the ROI is in farming? We are lucky that there are still farmers crazy enough to still farm. Most only do it because that's all they know.

JohnieC and others, why don't you all turn off your computers and stop plundering electricity? It's hilarious for anyone involved with this blog to bitch about wasting resources.

Farms for the most part are large corporations that depend on corporate welfare. Why should we bail them out?

If they had used water in a sustainable manner, they wouldn't be asking to drain the White River after draining the aquifer.

No, they've used it up, like there's no tomorrow, and now they want more.

Not to mention the small fact that every dollar we plow into agriculture is one less dollar we put into preparing ourselves for the knowledge economy.

>>If you don't want farmers to use water then stop eating food.<<

Of course this is taking the argument away from the issue and to a ridiculous conclusion.

We want farmers to use water wisely. As above posts indicate they don't. Calif farmers, and I
know two, were forced to use water more wisely over 25 years ago and they do. Their aquifers began drying up long ago.

There's a fellow south of here (NWA) I've known for over 10 years who has farmed 60 acres of green beans and tomatoes for over 25 years. He makes what he makes. He doesn't run around in a $60,000 pickup either. He furnishes his own water so he must use it wisely. Installed drip irrigation long ago.
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Just one of many ways, Eark, is the use of those giant watering rigs you see creeping across soybean fields every summer. Any halfway smart back yard gardener can tell you that sprinkling --that's what those rigs do on a massive scale -- results in a loss of as much as 90% of your water to evaporation on a dry summer day.
Don't believe it? Try this. Hook up a sprinkler on one section of your yard and a soaker hose arrayed on a similar size area. Turn each on for an hour. Then walk across both sections. (Wear boots or washable footwear on the soaker hose section, 'cause you're gonna sink in up to your ankles.)
Of course, without the use of irrigation systems, those beans could well burn up and reduce yields dramatically. On the other hand, my garden will hold moisture much longer than a farm field because I work at keeping it bulked up with organic matter and mulch or dust mulch it. As a result, it needs much less watering per square foot than your typical farm field.
Of course a farmer can't replicate my garden practices on the scale they're working.
Do I have a solution? Nope. But I am saying that we'd better try to come up with some solutions. I think time is running out, and not only in terms of water.
Think about the incredible amounts of chemical fertilizers and petroleum products needed to sustain agribusiness. In the meantime, we are fertilizing suburban lawns and cutting the grass religiously. We're bagging the clippings, and leaves every fall, and sending them to landfills. We're paying who knows how much nationally to bury organic waste.
We have sewer ponds to purify (although I question that word, having seen a sewer pond or two) human waste and discharge it into our rivers. Since you're gasping and wondering why on earth I'd bring up sewer ponds, let me explain that there have been test projects to reclaim that fertilizer -- that's what it's been from the beginning of time -- and use it productively (with appropriate health safeguards).
Last I heard the project fizzled, not because it wasn't technically feasible, but because most gardeners wouldn't even consider using it. (OK, OK, I'll admit it. If I saw a bag of human manure at Wal-Mart, I'd be the first to go "Eeeewwww." Don't ask me why I think cow manure, horse manure, chicken litter and all other such stuff, much of it unprocessed, simply shoveled off the barn floor, is fine to put on my garden.)
Point is, we've got a bunch of problems and we'd better figure out how to overcome them before we start going on enforced diets.
And a question kinda from out in left field. (The mind is a weird thing, I'll admit). How come I can buy a quart of beer at the grocery store (for batter for homemade onion rings -- messy and a lot of trouble, but sooo good) for less than I can buy a bottle of water?
Addendum: if rereading this has me associating sewer ponds with onion rings, as I am right now, it might be a while before we have them again. Wonder how flat that beer is?

I think the municipal league voted to oppose this meassure. Is that correct?

ARK. BLOG: No, they were brought around with an assurance the money wouldn't be used to urbanize unincorporated areas.

Well so far one person has given one example....giant water sprinklers. Do you see many of those in Arkansas? I guess I've missed those. Also, would you name all the big corporate farms? Also name a $60,000 truck that all these rich farmers drive. The amount of ignorance on here is scary. Did you all grow up in LR or the mountains?

So far I'm seeing a lot of shouting on here about how farmers /don't/ waste water, but I've yet to see any facts or evidence to support the claim that farmers are using the correct amount or, dare we hope, less than what some of us think. Let's move the pendulum the other way..... farmers aren't using too much water, but just the right amount..... yet the water supply is undoubtedly shrinking..... is there anything farmers are doing to help alleviate the problem, since they do use quite a bit of water? Or is water conservation simply not the problem/responsibility of the Arkansas Farmer?

Try driving south of Pine Bluff sometime, reallawyer. There are quite a few around. I think they're called pivot irrigation systems -- essentially pipes mounted high on wheeled units that slowly traverse the field from a center point.
If you want to engage someone who can really give you the lowdown on depleted aquifers in central and eastern Arkansas and farmers attempting to turn to government agencies and the White River for their water needs now that other resources are getting scarce, get Clarendon attorney David Carruth to weigh in.
For good measure, take a little trip up to central Kansas, say to Great Bend or a bit farther west and stop on any Arkansas River bridge up there. Then come back and tell us what you saw in that river bed.
Oh, heck, I'll save you the trip. You'll see a river bed. Sand. Dirt. Grass. Small trees. Water? Well, yeah. A little. Wade across it in a lot of places. That's what happened when farmers depleted the aquifer in that part of the country.
Maybe things won't get quite so bad here. Maybe. We do get a little more rain than Kansas does. But I really don't want to find out just how bad it might get if we continue our plundering ways.
One more thing: Google Tyler Farms in east Arkansas. Big spread -- 60,000 acres, farmed by tenant farmers. The owners, who don't farm -- just like subsidized "farmers" David Rockefeller and Ted Turner -- get one of the largest farm subsidies in the country for not planting portions of their land. (Wanna bet it's the most marginal land they have?)
Or let's look at Fortune 500 companies like Chevron, John Hancock Insurance, and Caterpillar. Aside from all the corporate slurping from the subsidy trough, you can bet their farm managers are under serious pressure to look for financial corners to cut. So tell me this. What's cheaper than getting the government to subsidize your irrigation needs?
Looks to me like things need to be tightened up a bit. Not that I have much hope that will happen.

Farmers could use less water by developing a new crop like Hemp. The water being used and poisoned in the Fayetteville shale is going to make resources even more thin. Too bad the U.S. senate can't just print more water like they do money. It's pretty much coming down to "change or die." That's a pretty easy choice for me.

Yep, reallawyer- I grew up in the mountains and have worked on a farm. Now I live in the Delta, where there is only Agribusiness. The pickups aren't quite up to 60k yet, but the wives drive Range Rovers, Lexus Lands, Yukon Denalis, etc. And when they want to drive to church or to the airport in Memphis to fly to New York to shop and catch a show, they pull the S600 Mercedes out of the garage. A small handful of subsidized agribusiness "farmers" own vast acreages. Each new half-million dollar harvesting machine eliminates a couple of dozen low end jobs. Any actual labor, as everywhere, is done by what were once called "guest workers" from points south.