Arkansas Blog

This "story" needs to just go away, it makes Democrats look awful, even if we did not start this and are only repeating it.
That poor teenager does not deserve to be treated like this.
Sometimes I really hate the internet.....

unknown small-state governor bursts into the national spotlight

and right away rumours of "non-traditional" children surface

causing a media frenzy that threatens to block out coverage/debate
of more important issues.

why do i feel like i've seen this movie before ???

Did anyone look at the photo dated late 2007. I don't know about you but when did deciduous trees retain their leaves into the late part of the year?

Any, I completely feel for Bristol. She obviously didn't have any choice in this, as she and Trig are being used as political fodder for their mother's ambition. But if the bizzare situation is TRUE, the voters need to decide if this is someone they're comfortable having "a heartbeat away" from a Commander in Chief who isn't a spring chicken and who has health problems.

Even if it's not true, her decision to keep the pregnancy secret, her dangerous behavior while she was in labor, her decision to bypass advanced medical centers to give birth to a special needs child in a small hospital are questionable....at the very least.

Well, you can drop rumor mongering for the moment. CBS news just confirmed this:

McCain Campaign: Gov. Palin's Daughter Is Pregnant

(CBS) Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin admitted Monday that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant.

Bristol Palin is about five months pregnant and is going to marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the McCain campaign.

Monday's announcement was intended to knock down internet rumors that Plain faked her own pregnancy with son Trig, who was born in April with Down Syndrome, to cover up for her Bristol.

The typo belongs to CBS online news, not me. Should read "her daughter Bristol."

Wait! There's more!

To rebut rumors, Palin says daughter, 17, pregnant

ST. PAUL (Reuters) - The 17-year-old daughter of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is pregnant, Palin said on Monday in an announcement intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child.

Bristol Palin, one of Alaska Gov. Palin's five children with her husband, Todd, is about five months pregnant and is going to keep the child and marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the campaign of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2944356420080901

Very strange story.

yet another 'oops' for the party that equates "Family Values" with biblical moral injunctions ?

so much for 'abstinence-only' education, eh Guv?

(oh well, it's not like Bristol killed a dog or some'n)

This is a total disaster for the Republican ticket. Even more appalling is that McCain KNEW about the pregnancy (unwed) when he signed Palin on.

Karl Rove must have his head in his hands 24/7.

Are you saying that some action by the parents contributed to the daughter getting pregnant? If not, then how does this disqualify palin from being vp? Anyone who has raised children knows that you can teach them and be an example of how you should live and they can still make decisions that run contrary to what they were taught. Human nature is what it is. The parents indicate that they lived and taught morals but children can choose to go their own way.

Wow.
just...wow.

Palin's family life is like a Jerry Springer show.....if they all lived in trailers in Arkansas.

(don't judge me, I live in a trailer...in Arkansas)

Gawd, I never thought I'd see the Dems rubbing their thighs like Repukes over some sex story.

I'm ashamed I was once a member of that party.

Anyone can make a mistake, no one is perfect. Palin's daughter and her bastard child shouldn't become a political pawn. BUT... the same crowd who will vote for McCain the Adulterer and Palin the Failed Mother told us a few years ago Clinton's private sex life was grounds for impeachment. What comes around goes around, even for holier-than-thou Repubs.

Whiskey Tango....

the jamie lynn-ification of america strikes again

Uh, this is all very interesting. Really. Alaska sounds like Arkansas with snow. I wonder if the 17 year old girl wants to get married to the father or if she is being forced to marry the father? We have these young mothers come into the hospital all the time and they are so overwhelmed. It is doubly worse for them when they have family that is forcing the "you have to get married" thing on them. A few of these young girls truly are in love with the dad and the dad is actually mature enough to handle the responsibility.

I am beginning to think that McCain's choice just may be the most inspired political move in recent politics. The Palin family IS the average American family.

PV's post puts it to rights. For me, it wouldn't matter if this story applied to a Dem or a Republican ticket. For me, it has nothing to do with party. Maybe somebody else has a different angle, but don't put me in that group, please.

I'd be appalled by it no matter which candidate finally 'fessed up to it, in terms of McCain having KNOWN about it (bad judgment) and yet continued to approve of Palin, and in terms of what it tells me about Palin's judgment. What were they going to do? Try to ride out this child's pregnancy under the radar? What hypocrites. And I'd say the same for any candidate in any party, but particularly to an up and coming grandmother who preaches abstinence and "family values."

Can you guys get any more sleazy?

Very odd story...
I work in an NICU, don't know any doctor who would advise a pt. with leaking or ruptured membranes to get on a plane, fly several hours, stop twice at large cities with NICU's to go to a small hospital with no NICU to deliver.
Did she have an amnio? Did she know her child was Trisomy 21 {Down's}?
Sad to hear her 17 year old is pregnant....but as we all know that could happen in any family.
Again...What was McCain/handlers thinking???

Let us remember that Hurricane Bristol moving thru the McCain campaign right now is a campaign ender if any of this is true. If it turns out that the Downs baby is Palin's grandson and a cover up has been performed, McCain's bid for the Presidency IS OVER.

So McCain's camp has to make up ANY story to stop Hurricane Caribou Barbie. At 5 months, most women do not noticeably show.....I might be 5 months preggers...you'd never know. A miscarriage next month will fix the problem. Or if they really want to go for broke, a car wreck that kills the poor pregnant teenage mother will remove the clouds over Palin. Oh Jesus....I can't believe I just typed that.

But here in the real world we have 8 years of proof that the Republicans will do ANYTHING to hold onto the power they stole. Remember those 4 people arrested with high power rifles with scopes in Denver a week ago yesterday? Heard much about that lately? No neither have I but I've heard Kevin Spacey grabbed a man's butt and Halle Berry's baby pix are out!

Let us also remember these people running for President on both sides are not like you and me. Though they float bullshit 24-7 for us to suck up, everything is very real in their world. If there is a problem with Sarah or Bristol, they will do whatever it takes to make the problem go away. A young girl's life be damned. But let's relax.....let Bristol take a pregnancy test and let her Mom provide some DNA and in a week we'll know the truth.

Can you guys get any more sleazy?

Posted by: Anonymous

Uh, you guys started back with Bill. Or have you conveniently forgotten?

Yes, the fact that the young lady is pregnant should not matter. It's how her mother handles it. It's how her mother preaches abstinence only.

Yeah, if you think that if the D's take the high road and the R's will follow, I have only one word to describe your thinking. Delusional.

Clinton was impeached because he lied to a grand jury under oath. That is a felony. Obstruction of justice is not a walk in the park for a chief executive officer who heads up the department of justice. Your liberal memory is selective and intentionally misleading. You should run for a position on the DNC. You would find a lot of buds.

BIG MISTAKE to let/force/cajole that young couple to marry.......

Seldom comes to a good end.......

We know and have a 19 yr old g'son that we raised, still raise and spend every moment

thinking about, worry no end, late night phone ring...heart attack time.

I don't know how that woman thinks she can be veep and a loving mom and g'mom....

Don't anyone say Hillary....she has one grown, beautiful, moral daughter.

Karl's being a busy boy today, dominating the news, one cycle at a time

Hurricane Gustnot ('cept for the good folks in Houma, Morgan City, etc) succeeded in
knocking out the "Parade/Reminder of the Past" scheduled for tonight in St. Paul
without the trauma/tension of Katrina2 (only "impressively" handled this time)
the let-down could not be allowed to be the story on tonight's evening newscasts
thus the timing of the "admission" to stop the rumour-mills

p.s. money is reportedly flowing heavily (pardon the pun) to the McCain campaign
since friday's announcement, so the more SP in the news, the better (especially
when cast as a victim)

As offended as I am by the sleazy antics of the Koskids who spread these slanders, I have to say I really do enjoy watching the moonbat leftists pissing away this election. This time last year I was convinced that Hillary Clinton would be the next President. But first the moonbats knocked her off, and now they're showing middle America just how bat**** crazy they really are, and how much like them Obama is.

"Clinton was impeached because he lied to a grand jury under oath"

And, Jorge DUHbyuh Butch was NOT impeached for lying under oath, because he would never allow anyone to place him under oath. Just ordinary lying is not grounds for impeachment.
Just thought I'd mention that part.

This is too bad about this kid. Being a preggers minor is bad enough, but to have it all dragged through the national spotlight compounds that exponentially. There's nothing surprising, or, at this point, even newsworthy about a "family values" candidate hiding their "real life" from the public. Dems don't need this to discredit McCain's judgment in picking this sure loser for VP. No point in beating this horse.

JMW you probably summed up the reality of the 2008 presidential race better than anyone else on this blog. All you need with moonbats is give them enough rope and they will....well, you know the proverbial rest. Keep it up guys. The middle that usually decides these things will be totally turned off by you guys.

Y'know, Sarah Palin is a public figure. We all know that the Arkansas DIXIECRAT-gazette loves to go after public officals. Whats different about us shining the light on this rat.

Moonbats pissing away this election? Who? The 5 liberal bloggers who have been looking into this? You think 98% of Americans even know this is going on right now or know what the DailyKos is? Give me a break. Isn't this a bit of wishful thinking on your part, jmw? ALL state-by-state election analyses show Obama winning the election fairly easily, and this has been the case for the past 3 months. I guess I am just "bat****" crazy" for believing scores of independent analyses. To believe that this pregnancy story is going to benefit McCain is so absurd I cannot even believe you, as a believer of this, can even form coherent sentences.

If Sarah Palin lied about who's kid this is, then that's the first thing I've heard about her that makes me feel kindly toward her. The rest of her resume is filled with nutcasery--supporting Patrick Buchanan in 1996, being both an evolution-denier and a global-warming-denier--and scummery--using her staff to try to get her ex-brother-in-law fired from his job as a state trooper. That's important.

The kid thing? It just doesn't matter, and it's small of people to dwell on it. I know people will, but they shouldn't. It's bad behavior and bad politics.

Let me interrupt this interesting discussion to throw some chaff into the bonfire of college football in the state of Arkansas.

Wow!!! Can you believe it? The Red Wolves of ASU beat a real football team this past Saturday...Texas A&M. The Razorbacks of UA F beat a pansy team from the cornfields of Illinois.

So why is all of the ink in the Arkansas Deomocrat-Gazette being used to extol the ho-hum victory of the Razorbacks?

I'm no fan of ASU, but it would seem to me that they deserve more acclaim for their victory than UAF does for theirs.

My prediction is that it is going to be a "long" season for Petrino and the Razorbacks. I guess the sports media that have sucked at the UA trough for so long knows that this is probably going to be one of the few times they get to write anything positive about the Hogs.

Oh, yeah. The mighty Weevils of UAM beat the highly acclaimed team of UAPB coached by former pro Monte Coleman. Go Weevils!!!!

1) I agree that the ASU victory has received minimal coverage considering its significance. It's a great thing for those guys and I'm proud of them. This is just more evidence that the DG is in UA's hip pocket.

2) DBI, I like your posts, but sometimes you just need to use the delte key.

i think this will be a case of, can you remember thomas eagleton? a woman who espouses abstinence is going to create flack from the religious right or they may all want to heal the poor girl and she may become a cause. we need to be careful how this is handled. if it is a problem let it happen, don't force it from our side, let them be embarassed.

Democrats are just going to sleaze themselves right out of an election here.

That second picture of the Palin family that Kos uses to show Bristol is a bit heavyset? It's from 2006. The Anchorage Daily News website proves this.

Zonker's right. The problem with this story is that the conversation should continue to be about SP's lack of experience and her own judgemental problems (as well as McThuselah's). Talking about the daughter's pregnancy is a distraction from the much more important issue here. I'm for leaving this poor young woman alone.

I love how the wing nuts spend decades promoting lies and smears along with anti sex, anti life, anti science, pro fetus, rest of the family be damned . When "liberals" point their fingers in mocking amazement at what that actually means in real life... the wing nuts have nothing to say but how awful we are? Yet they can't / won't stand up for this freak show of party nominees in any other way than rebuttals with name calling.

What we see here is a failure of fundie approach to all things real life related.. Those kids needed a simple pill and a coating of latex plus a little instructions (possibly in school *gasp*) on what to do if they were going to do the dirty deed early in life. The Gov mother needed to go to a hospital in Texas.

I value common sense as much as intelligence. What exactly do fundies value? Myth, denial, forced pregnancy even after cases of rape or incest.. unless a VP mother risks a child's life while leaking fluid across continents... well she's a hero! Send her money and vote her into power next to the red phone, by God!

Kos is a place where just abut anyone can post a diary... just like AR Blog is place where just about anyone can post a comment. One person posted questionable photos. I talked with dozens of people about that kos diary from the moment it broke... and only 24 hours later did i see some people begin to take it seriously. Most folks shied away from it's poor sourcing, while seeking out and listening to credible sources in AK who said it was an old rumor started b yfellow Republicans. So you wingnuts need to blame your fellow wingnuts for that false story. But wingnuts, with a lifetime of generalized racist speech habits .. have a complete inability to talk about things without sweeping generalizations.. no matter how poorly the shoe fits.

We have a woman on the McCain ticket in large part because of her "Dobson approved" position on reproduction and her "earth is no more than 6,000 years old" beliefs. We have a Jerry Springer GOP party before our very eyes... and all they can do is call us crazy etc.

But John McCain his wife and folks liek Dobson chose her after less than two hours combined telephone and in person interaction with her to be Vice President of The United States... and he's proud of her experience on the local PTA most of all! He didn't vet her.. so somebody has too.

Keep on this story! It's at the core of where the fundies have been wrong all along. And other republicans have used it n order to abuse everything from the use of our military in needless wars and torture, all the way over to our federalist society courts and screwed up our education system.

Mock them, laugh with me.. because you know it's really we Democrats who will do our best to help insure care for them for the rest of our voting lives. Bless their hearts.

Think! It's either some weird combo of Jerry "Chasv" Springer and Desperate "strange" Housewives for president this year... or something else.. anything else!

Any person who jumps into American politics takes her family in with her, whether they want to go or not. All should expect to be under the microscope because of the National Enquirer mindset of the masses. Liberals and conservatives alike go for any exposed neck they can get to, so this is no surprise.

A kinder people would leave the kids out of it, though.

and Kristol's "op-ed" column in today's NYTimes is titled "A Star is Born?"

i kid you not. (pardon the pun)

Eureka Springs,

Do you really think you're going to change the mind of McCain voters with this? Do you even think you can demoralize them?

This isn't the sort of hypocrisy people respond to. It's about someone's kid screwing without birth control. That's a bi-partisan issue. Most voters, including the ones you're trying to prod, are going to feel sorry for the girl. Hell, I do.

What might change some people's minds is a few years of sane policy on contraception and sex education and the positive results we can expect from that policy. Mocking grown people might do some good, but mocking a pregnant 17-year-old won't.

I don't have time to read through all of the comments above so perhaps this has been pointed out already.

YOU COULD HAVE A BABY IN APRIL AND BE ABOUT 5 MONTHS PREGNANT AGAIN.

From the "For What It's Worth" department:

Photo sequences aside.

Rumors aside.

Announcements and "mysteries cleared up" aside.

I have it on good authority from an Alaska resident that Governor Palin was seen in numerous television appearances in various (and sequential) stages of pregnancy. Absolutely burst out laughing when informed of the rumor that Governor Palin's son was actually her grandson. "After she was seen repeatedly on TV obviously pregnant????"

That's all of substance I have to offer.

a storm and a hurricane on the same day ? and the hits just keep on comin'...

Palin's name is listed on 2003 incorporation papers of the "Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service, Inc.," a 527 group that could raise unlimited funds from corporate donors. The group was designed to serve as a political boot camp for Republican women in the state. She served as one of three directors until June 2005, when her name was replaced on state filings.

name/link

I think attention should be placed on Palin lying about opposing the bridge to nowhere.

No...this isn't about the kid....it's about the COVER UP. Miss Wasilla was brought into this campaign as a Family Values Christian to shore up McCain's crumbling support by the wingnuts. If there is a COVER UP going on WE need to know it. Period! This is every bit as important as Clinton's blowjob was in the 1990s. So let's have the facts and let the voters go from there. THIS IS ABOUT A COVER UP.

Please someone....give birth to the facts.

Strangelove, do you even know how Jones' lawyers came into that bit of info? Called entrapment.

Would you at least admit it was a witch hunt? Or is that beyond your ability to look clearly at issues?

I like one suggestion on how Clinton should have handled the question. "Yeah, so what are going to do about it?"

And then handle the fallout. The thugs would have been seen for what they were.

I feel sorry for the girl because she has parents who wouldn't teach her about how to avoid the sting of the birds and the bees.. and when her mother threatens the life of a very late term baby at the same time... well it's a very telling, familiar pattern with these theo crazies.

Heck yes, it's a tragedy! The big picture demands we don't elect another tragedy. I believe no matter who these people are or what they do, we should all make sure they have knowledge based options and health care available. They believe the exact opposite.. unless it fits a photo or PR opportunity thinly veiled in lies, denial and hypocrisy.

There is no hypocrisy on my part.. All I ask is that we not elect fact free theocratic fundies into the highest levels of our government again. We can't change to the policies you and I advocate.. unless we tar and feather these cretins and mock them when they bring forward their latest Jerry Springer acts. They brought these issues into public light decades ago. Forced them upon all of us. we have no choice but to confront it... being nice and not laughing out loud didn't work well enough for Gore and Kerry.. It's time to quit clutching D pearls and attack.

I'm not trying to change the Chav's or stranges... but I think 70% is worth the effort, lots of effort! No matter where you stand.. the GOP is dangerous on every level.. they are hell bent on destruction, oppression, lies and ignorance.

We, John, are debaters, compromisers, who attempt to base ideas on facts, willing to consider, even stand for all sides whether we agree or not... but that doesn't work when we have the other side doggedly stuck in mythical propaganda who want only to oppress what makes us all great.. our liberties, our general welfare, our pursuit of being something or someone better. Honoring our differences is only possible on a two way street. I've spent over four decades watching the GOP (and the Pryor Ross Dems) build a higher blockade with no end in sight.

There is nothing i would do to end theocons or fascists right to express or live privately within their views.. Except when they threaten all other views with oppression even false wars.. and you know that is exactly what they have been doing with far to much success for decades.

9 trillion in debt (more than all other presidents combined). Two needless war/occupations with threats of several more..while they vote down veteran benefits and claim they support troops. Rapid sweeping loss of civil liberties..and federalist benches in pursuit of theocratic law while the real radical change occurring is the overwhelming power grab of corporations gained under the federalist judges. They are anti health care, anti thought based debate, anti "We the people". They are anti woman, anti science, anti fact.... all for the looting of our treasure and more no bid contracts to do nothing.

The only thing republicans are for is money, power in the hands of the few.. and for profit oil and wars. And they use God and Jerry Springer tactics to achieve these things. They abused our desire to be civil and or "bipartisan" to abuse their position.. while declaring everyone else is going to hell.

I really don't care who anyone votes for or if they stay home.. as long as they don't vote for the dude with dementia and his sidekick from the PTA. To much is at stake to just make nice.

Eureka, you are full of it. Anyone who reads this blog with any regularity knows what BS your diatribe is. Most of this stuff is speculative at best and usually is designed to destroy whoever is in the path of your wrath. You ignore the identical behavior on the part of your political buddies and become an extension of the National Enquirer for your enemies. You have no credibility with the majority of voters. They probably don't read this nonsense and your source, the daily kos. Keep on trucking down this path because you will ensure that the demos do what they are best at----throwing away opportunities in order to bow to their real god of ideology. I remember how sacrosanct chelsea was when she was this age. The press left her alone because the clintons would definitely spank.

UPDATE MAX: Please explain the the following? "Palin's unmarried daughter IS pregnant, thus the photos."
First photo is dated by the DK as late 2007. That would have been 9 to 10 months ago and if you believe the photo that she was pregnant then how long is she going to carry? Also, throw in another few months for her to show, if she was really pregnant as the DK implies. Max, I thought you were more intelligent than to take the words of the DK at face value.

I'm not saying "play nice", Eureka Springs. I'm saying "don't be a shithead." That's advice both you and DBI might take to heart.

There is plenty of stuff about Sarah Palin that makes her a lousy choice for vice-president, stuff that demonstrates that McCain is dangerously irresponsible. Mysteriously enough, people like you and DBI--okay, in his case I get it, he thinks with his dick--are homing in unerringly on the one place in this target-rich environment of idiocy and corruption that is likely to blow right up in your faces.

I figure right about now, maybe ten percent of the shit John McCain rubbed on himself by his cynical nomination of an unqualified, corrupt, slightly loony politician in a desperate attempt to appeal to the dozen or so Hillary voters who still aren't sold on Obama has been washed off him by all this ignorant pissing and moaning about some poor pregnant girl. Maybe fifteen percent. Get a clue.

Here's what makes it relevant:

Question: Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?

Sarah Palin: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.

This is extremely relevant as it underlines the anti-science bias of the Republican party. Abstinence education doesn't keep teenagers from getting pregnant. What it does do is make them hide things from their parents. If Bristol and her boyfriend had been engaging in safe sex, she wouldn't be pregnant.

I don't want my daughter getting pregnant at 17, and that's why I'd never vote for a fundamentalist.

Are you saying that her daughter didn't know that if you have intercourse you might get pregnant? Not likely. Kids have sex when they know the consequences. I don't think you can lay the blame for something that her daughter did at palin's feet. Adults have sex knowing the consequences.

If palin demonstrates that McCain is irresponsible then why doesn't the same reasoning apply to the democratic party nominating obama? A senator with 143+ days of experience is hardly a rational decision for a chief executive officer position.

Ouch, Arch! Good point.

Question: What do you call a fundie Republican woman who doesn't support such educational programs?

Answer: Grandma.

Archaeopteryx, Republicans for Obama,

You guys are making some level of sense here. I agree that it's right to hit Palin over her ignorant and cruel opposition to decent sex education programs, but I disagree that making her daughter an example is the way to do it. Raising kids is a crapshoot at best. Kids with the best raising sometimes turn out rotten, and vice versa. Individual cases matter to those who care about those individuals; it's how things work out statistically, in large populations, which matter to those who care about policy.

.

Republican Vice Presidents' daughters have become something else.

At least this Republican girl is not gay.

.

cold war rekindling, economy sucking, afghanistan cranking up, pakistan sliding toward?, even Prime Minister of Japan Fukudo said fukuto today, and the overarching issue of the POTUS 2008 race is going to be a fight over the USSC and Roe v. Wade ?

i think the 'eagleton' factor just went to 30% or 40% chance during today's news dump
(bristol pregnant, 527 director for Ted Stevens, Todd's dwi, pledge of allegiance good enough
for the Founding Fathers, Dobson vetted/approved her, etc.)

if SP is "driven" off the ticket, and replaced by a WoT/CiC guy (rudy,mitt,joe,tom) will the
fundies be faithful to McCain and come out in large numbers to vote out of outrage over
what was "done" to SP ?

(i'm actually beginning to entertain the idea that McCain may not stay on the ticket)

Palin's experience is a year and a half as governor of Alaska, a state with immense wealth and almost no people--sort of the opposite of the rest of the country. Before that, she was the mayor of a town with a population of five thousand.

Obama has nearly four years of experience as a United States senator, more than Bobby Kennedy. Before that, he served in the Illinois legislature.

Spin it all you want--143 days indeed!--but the facts are clear: Obama's experience is clearly and directly relevant to the Presidency. Palin's is not.

"Are you saying that her daughter didn't know that if you have intercourse you might get pregnant?"

Are you KIDDING me? And you were a high school teacher?

Uhh, since you apparently have no emotional intuition: when hormone-fueled teens are in the thick of passion, they won't remind themselves of the consequences.

The difference is in the way sex is approached. Abstinence education by itself if worthless since it requires bottling up that passion and demonizing sex to the point that you disconnect yourself from reality and can't help yourself. Safe sex education promotes abstinence and maturity about sex, but if you're going to do it, be sure you know how to approach it with a full understanding of the consequences.

So yes, parents/schools/etc that teach abstinence only education are part of the cause behind higher rates of marriages out of wedlock (with higher divorce rates--just compare crazy liberal Massachusetts' divorce rates to Arkansas'), higher teen pregnancy rates, and higher abortion rates.

So, how did Palin approach sex when discussing it with her daughter?

Does this disqualify Palin from being VP? Well, what does she tout? Abstinence-only education? Does she summon the Bible whenever stumped by a policy question? Does this news make any of her previous statements---when she knew that no one knew her daughter was pregnant and could hence get away with it easier---sound hypocritical?

I say Palin's unqualified regardless of this incident. And Alaskan newspapers tend to agree
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/2-top-alaska-newspapers-q_b_122625.html

Glick the blue name for another bit of Kos reporting. Good enough for the founding fathers, indeed.

Strange.. bless your former central high students hearts.. to bad reading and comprehension wasn't a skill their teachers formed during their early years. If you read my comments.. I am against the dkos diary assertions.. stated that last night and posted links suggesting it was not a credible diary. All the while you fail to get it was fundies fact free Rovian gopers who started the rumors about Palin in AK months ago.

However, her own words in this article are what bothers me about her treatment of her own pregnancy:
http://www.adn.com/front/story/382864.html

And she does not help herself today when she announces her daughters pregnancy...for reasons, once again, by their own words :

Reuters: "The 17-year-old daughter of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is pregnant, Palin said Monday in an announcement intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child.
<<<<<

So why would she be trying to cover up a false story? What is she really hiding? What the heck kind of person is Mccain for nominating this Springeresque malarky? He can't even look out for his own folks... what will he do for you?

They can't even manage their own Springer show... so let us all elect them to the office of P and VP! If you don't want Amereican political discourse to be like this anymore then vote these people out once and for all.

What kind of person would run for VP with a new baby and a 17 year old pregnant daughter?

If that is pro-family I don't want to ever see anti-.

"Clinton was impeached because he lied to a grand jury under oath."

Strange, you are re-writing history.....again. Read the two articles of impeachment and then see if you statement holds up. It takes a two thirds vote. The two articles didn't get a majority vote for "guilty." and the GOP had control of the Senate.

You know, I couldn't go to work three days after my lung collapsed and she goes right back to work after having a baby? Questionable judgement.

Wow, you liberals are A bunch of sleeze bags. Making political sport of an young girls pregnancy.

The Palin family values the sanctity of life. They talk the talk and walk the walk.
I guess things would just be better if she had taken the Obamessia's advice and just relieved herself of the problem right?

Obama -"Look, I got two daughters - 9 years old and 6 years old," he said. "I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."

One ticket sees this as a blessing. The other sees it as a curse. Could the core differences between the two be any starker?

The Obamessia's mother was also a teenager when she gave birth to him and married his father just six months before he was born. Should she have aborted him? That won't stop the left from attacking, of course - even when Obama himself has come out against the attacks

"Mr. Obama, campaigning here, also noted that his own mother was 18 when she gave birth to him.
"People's families are off limits," he said. "People's children are especially off limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. "
"I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories," he added. "That shouldn't be a topic in our politics."
He vehemently pushed back against an unnamed McCain aide suggesting his campaign had any ties to the blogs that were spreading rumors before the news broke, saying he was "offended" by that and if any of his staff was involved in spreading the issue, "they'd be fired."

But you liberals are way to classy for that right? Assured that he "really doesnt mean it" you'll contnue your sickening attacks on her. Werent you guys just whinning a couple months ago about right wing attacks on Michelle Obama ? Werent you saying that families were off limits ?

This attacking the family is sure to backfire though, so go ahead asshats make a mockery of yourselves.

At the link - Time Magazine on the fact they knew about the pregnancy but didnt report on it because it was nobody's business. Time Magazine for Gods sake!

COVER UP.....was there a COVER UP. Let's see some pregnancy test results, let's find the missing doctor who delivered Trig and let's see some DNA results. Let's find out whose breast feeding? Let's mark on the calendar and see if the Palins become grandparents for the "first" time in 2009. I sorta think God will call this little one "home" in the near future.

It disgusts me to consider such, but the neo-cons have no plans to leave office. Therefore the Palin mistakes must be COVERED UP by any means necessary....period.

Just thought I'd post this language from the 2004 Republican Party platform. It's hard for me to believe that there are conservatives on this blog who believe teenage pregnancy is a good thing.

"Abstinence from sexual activity is the only protection that is 100 percent effective against out-of-wedlock pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases, including sexually transmitted HIV/AIDS. Therefore, we support doubling abstinence education funding. We oppose school-based clinics that provide referrals, counseling, and related services for contraception and abortion."

meanwhile home at the ranch we have huck with his hand wildly in the air yelling me,me,me,me,me,me,me.

Meanwhile, our pals are busy. Click on Cato

Ok Now that Citizens Journal is agreeing and endorsing the words of Barack Hussein Obama:

WHO IS THE FATHER OF THIS SOON TO BE CHILD. ??

.

Ms Wasilla has hired an attorney for TrooperGate. Twat a busy busy day!

Well, its come down to this. I just knew this election season was gonna drive me over the

edge and I guess today I went over Niagra Falls, without a barrel.

Who's the mama, who's the grandma.....who in hell is the papa, who leaked for several

thousand miles, am I my own grandma???????????

Now I hear Cunt 2 has hired a power lawyer..........

How sweet it is.....lets sing

clicky

The Citizens Journal - Well then, why did Governor Palin give a detailed interview about her pregnancy? Explicit details from Dallas to AK and all the symptoms she ignored? Why is she announcing her daughters pregnancy now? in order to cover up the current rumors which were started by Alaskan Republicans?

These are all her words I am referring to (with the exception she falsely blames liberals for starting the story... when AK republicans did so months ago).. Why did she utter any of these words at all? Are you all suggesting liberals made her do it? hehe.

The party of family values who have attacked and attacked every facet of our society with these tactics.. expecting reproductive absolution for decades. Now the party is melting before our eyes with this embarrassment. Liberals have been advocate of privacy/live and let live for decades.. Who is it today who can't take the heat from their own kitchen stove? This is all .. including the rumors, a product of the GOP machine. I bet we find out one day that dkos diary was written by a republican plant.

Either way.. FOX CNN ABC CBS NBC etc. etc. ... all report crap like this endlessly, without question for the GOP machine... and the Republicans ignore it... until it turns on them. Liberals like me and the vast majority of the progressive blogosphere call out potential false rumors wherever they see them... but we are not afraid to ask questions.. it's a civic duty.

GOV Palin won't even teach her daughter a withdrawal plan.. how will she withdrawal our troops from conducting needless genocide in Iraq?

And what kind of families do you want to lead this country?

Seems like both Obama and Biden's families covers American values with integrity, by shining example, to me. The D party nominated smart people with integrity... everyone has flaws, but it's clear the Republican theo-criminal cabal must go.

Obama's statement is excellent.. he should let the vetting happen elsewhere.

One House One Spouse
Obama '08

One Strike against Abstinence Only Education.

One Hit for Sex Education in Public Schools.

If Abstinence Only Education doesn't work for the devout elite why should it work for others?

.

Something is very fishy about this whole thing. And it's not Alaskan salmon either. Someone went to a lot of trouble to set up this theory about Palin and her family. Who? Why? What set this whole process into motion?
It has such a National Enquirer-level of appeal and accuracy. What is odd is this: without this unusual preamble and furor about a faux pregnancy, the pregnancy of her daughter has a much darker affect on the campaign and makes one consider much more the morality of the issue and the morality of how we deal with the issue.
This is so twisted and Machiavellian that I'm not sure if some leftie screwball thought this one up or if some conspiratorial rightwingers did this to pre-emptively knock lefties off their perch of self-righteousness (a seat both sides use with too much frequency).
If it was done as a hoax, it's a monster that has taken a life of its own. If it was done to harm Palin and Repubs, it was pathetically inane and seems to be doing the reverse. If it was a really twisted Rovian ploy, then this is beyond stupid or mean - this is innovative evil.

It should be remembered that bloggers are the most Pavlovian of electronically stimulated beasts. Whether on the right or left, they jerk as if hit with an electric shock when some juicy and nasty tidbit makes a lovely smear across their canvas of biases. Sensitivity and sensibility are tossed out with other forms of common sense that act as governors to the brain.

Journalism is not just yellow now, it is jaundiced.

Johnarkansawyer, thanks for being a voice of reason. This whole thing has the sickening sensation of a Roman spectacle as the crowd cries for blood.

Again, there's something about this whole thing that doesn't pass the test. I can't put my finger on it but it just comes across as staged.

On those long, cold nights way up North to Alaska, we now now, they rub more than noses in their cozy little igloos. And I'm sure Mr. Deeb would concur in my postulating that whale blubber is a great lubricant, abundant and handy when the tundra stiffens.

And McCain knew about it, yeh, sure, he knew all about it. No need to share it with the voters. That's a family matter, like Clinton's love child (oh, wait, that was one of many smears perpetrated by freedom-loving patriots who put winning, uh truth that is, before honor).

Abstinence is for poor people too stupid to raise kids anyway.

For the 2 of you interested. The Republican Convention is going on and Miss Laura is speaking right now. On Dish you can get her on 211. The joint only looks about half full. But gee....I can understand why....it's raining 1000 miles away......Right here is where I make the sound of a clucking chicken......

Hey, keep it up guys. This is good stuff. I'm loving every minute of this trash. The middle of the road voters are going to love it too. Remember, sleeze really sells.

and somewhere Say Macintosh is wondering "why wasn't there an internet like this in '92?"

"Liberals like me and the vast majority of the progressive blogosphere call out potential false rumors wherever they see them... but we are not afraid to ask questions.. it's a civic duty."

yeah right, please, im holding my sides - im in stitches.

This is from Democratic Underground - "NoodleyAppendage (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-30-08 10:26
122. What many here don't understand. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. RUMOR IS TRUTH.

The modern laws of media hype and political warfare have a useful tenet:

Repeat ANYTHING or raise false concern over ANYTHING and it is likely to be planted in the conscious/subconscious of many voters.

If people start to think that there might be something fishy with Palin's last kid (if hers), then that's FINE. One more doubt (whether tied to reality or not) is another hesitation at the ballot box.

GET WITH THE PROGRAM PEOPLE. The "rising above it" bullshit has served us so well in the past, hasn't it?

If you have problems with the story, then STFU and get out of the way of Dems who are engaged in MODERN POLITICAL WARFARE. Go tend your garden or some other pedestrian task, because the "concern trolls" are not helping shape the message. J "

Truely a modern Journalistic ethic at work.

Listen up, Stupid: You can do "all the right things" and live your life according to Christ and teach your kids values and all that stuff, but guess what? You're still going to sin.

Your religion, in fact, explicitly states that no one is without sin, except Christ, so implying otherwise is a direct heresy against Christ's teachings.

And furthermore so will your kids sin. And their grandkids.

The worldview is utterly naive and unrealistic, which would simply be chuckleworthy, if not for the other part of it: Because there is among some this heretical belief that accepting Christ is a perfect defense against all sins, these jackoffs become nasty and gleefully judgmental about others falling short. It's not really morality; it's just a pretext for self-celebration and exulting in the travails of others.

Christ didn't ask you to be smug nasty prick, did He? No, I don't think that's among his teachings.

I feel like I've been sucked into an ABC Family made-for-TV movie.

Having peddled this ridiculous and vicious smear, and fearing the "black eyes" this has given them, and how it has reduced (I shit you not) the "credibility" of DKos, the Kos Kids are now trying to find out... What Rovian Conspirator tricked us into believing this story?

Are you kidding me? Snap out of it wackjobs.

i read that noodler on du and saved it, tcj
glad somebody else caught it
(sounds like Syd Blumenthal crap to me)

and i think it's opposite is what Obama
has re-introduced into modern us politics
(with great political success, but limited cultural success)

Bristol should thank God her mother is not a Democrat, because then the media would be absolutely destroying her. Imagine what Rush would be saying! And Coulter! And Hannity!

Imagine the outrage, the shock, the disbelief at the Democrats' flaunting of family values!!

Imagine if Obama had a pregnant teenager! OMG.

But, Mom's a Republican, so the official message is it's nobody's business but the family's.

>>But, Mom's a Republican, so the official message is it's nobody's business but the family's. <<

Hey, that's what Barack Obama just stated on CNN.

Now back to policy and the next round of Abstinence Only Education.

.

You are shameless. This has been debunked, but you're happy to keep running it. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, Max. I've linked a post from another blog calling you out.

Bill Buckley said this incident, in itself, should not be an issue in this election. Oddly, I agree with Bill Buckley. He also said "Abstinence works 100% of the times it is tried". Now, there, is an issue. That's just not even close to the truth. Abstinence (except for that Jesus thing) works 100% of the times it is actually practiced, but who knows what percent of the times it's tried it is actually accomplished? 10%...50%? Surely no more than that. And who, in their teenage years, actually tries in the first place? I've tried it myself a bunch of times, and rarely accomplished it. So, Bill Buckly, the REpugnikun, is a liar. They're all liars. Their parents should have accomplished abstinence and saved us from having to listen to all these lies. It can't be good for people to be fed so much bullshit.

The Nony desk is right! The Gulf of Tonkin incident really really happened! Nixon didn't order secret bombings of Laos and Cambodia! The troublemakers at the 68 Democratic convention weren't hired by CREEP. Bush will fire anyone connected with outing V. Plame! Larry Craig will resign....someday! America has never tortured! Please trust everything your government and the RNC tells you....move along please!

In other Palin news, she has hired a lawyer to defend her in the "Troopergate" investigation.

Thanks, anonymous one, for that fascinating link.
WTF is Sweethome, Arkansas? And who cares?

DBI, you forgot one----I never had sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.

Here's what fellow Republicans in Alaska have said about Palin:

"She's not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president?" said Lyda Green, the president of the State Senate, a Republican from Palin's hometown of Wasilla. "Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"

Another top Republican, John Harris, the speaker of the House, when asked about her qualifications for Veep, replied with this: "She's old enough. She's a U.S. citizen."

It's a sad day for the GOP when the big news is that the VP candidate actually did have the baby she said she did.

Now we're still waiting on the big news on why and how she was able to fly from Dallas to Nowhere, Alaska after her water broke.

That's a lot harder to photoshop, I mean explain.

I see CJ can't read and comprehend either.. trying to paint my words as promotion of the rumor story.. in order to ignore the actual quoted tale of the dangerously negligent mother leaking across America.

You are defending a mother in the late late term of carrying a child who is a child with extra special needs, while the mother tells all the world she leaked across the country on planes... refusing to go to the doctor. She could have easily killed or harmed that very late term baby. But critics who question that, are smug or nasty? I'll meet you on the floor with a belly laugh and raise you a side splitter, CJ.

Nobody made that story up.. it's linked above in her own words. And all she does in the second link is bring up an awful rumor in order to justify covering up her daughters pregnancy with more Springer fever.

Now that is one horrific act.. and she told all the world that nasty story. So go ahead, paste people who are horrified at this behavior as the .. odd person out. I think more Americans will be appalled at her behavior and inability to keep from being proud of it as nothing less than a freak show. I don't know one person I discussed this with who isn't appalled with her behavior in re that child. I know women who have had abortions who are shocked with what Palin did on that long flight home.

Run around a look for a comment on another blog you find odd.. and use it to paint some anon broad sweeping picture. Don't help a fellow understand how your "pro family" party sorts out this Springer VP nominee show. Don't try to explain what a mother leaking across a continent.. with contractions... how is she not a danger to pro life values? How are "bloggers" responsible for spreading her actual quotes? Inject Jesus into a story about a mother endangering a child? Have you no shame?

Try to paint liberals as the guilty ones for the last two decade of ridiculously low political discourse. It's your party who has a no show convention, but is spending 50 million dollars to break down people houses with no warrants all over Minneapolis and initiate major riots after days and nights of police brutality. Heck, John McCain doesn't even have to come to town to destroy it. Imagine what he will do when his famous temper gets short and he has a seat of power.

OMG there are almost a couple of hundred people talking on their cell phones in an empty hall for the republican nominee in Minneapolis on CSPAN now. Looks like a funeral service for the GOP. Of course we know Republicans hide the caskets.. and Bush doesn't attend soldiers funerals.

Nice to see so many people mutually disgusted... maybe you Republicans ought to call Mccain Palin campaign and tell them how disgusted everyone is... Maybe Palin Stevens 527.. will expose more AK GOP corruption.

I need popcorn... while watching this GOP meltdown. To bad so many children have to suffer because of it.

BACK TO GOV PALIN'S POLICY: This one is for you CJ-

Seattle Times-
Republicans in Congress this June united to defeat a proposed windfall tax on oil companies, deriding it as a bad idea that would discourage investment in U.S. oil exploration.

Things worked out far differently in the GOP stronghold of Alaska, a state whose economic fate is closely tied to the oil industry.

Over the opposition of oil companies, Republican Gov. Sarah Palin and Alaska's Legislature last year approved a major increase in taxes on the oil industry - a step that has generated stunning new wealth for the state as oil prices soared.

At a time when Americans are feeling the pinch at the gasoline pump and oil companies are racking up record profits, Alaska's choice foreshadows one of the sharpest debates in the upcoming presidential election.

story on name.

.

elwood, I saw this story.

To tell you the truth it's the only thing about her that I wasnt absolutely enthusiastic about. I am sypathetic to the "taxing oil companies" argument as long as it isnt overly punsihing, and allows for more drilling. Not what the democrats want, anyway.........

Given that I think It will appeal to those undecideds in the general though. And back up McCains mavericky image on energy.

I dont agree 100 percent with McCain either but you cant please everyone 100 percent of the time right!

muleboy303 - There was an Internet back in 1992, with plenty of political discussion. And it was blissfully spam-free. Unfortunately, the only commercial service available in Arkansas was from Delphi, described here -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_online_service

Of course, it was very primitive compare to the Internet we enjoy today. It was mostly terminal-based.

Eventually, some local ISPs got started. WorldLynx started in Little Rock in late 1994, and IPA got started in Fort Smith in 1995. There were a couple of other early ISPs whose names I can't recall at the moment.

1994 AOL Alumni

"Alaska's decision to raise taxes is part of a global trend. Emboldened by high energy prices and the industry's difficulty in finding giant new oil fields, oil-rich nations from Venezuela to Russia (and Arkansas) have been raising taxes and royalty payments in recent years."

Like Arkansas did with the natural gas tax increase..

What possible linear connection could this have with a windfall tax increase on oil companies? The companies are paying higher prices to other governments and should also to Alaska.

thank you for the history lesson ab,
i had prodigy in 1991, moved to compuserve in '92
you know what i meant, which is why i phrased it
the way i did

Let's see. We are going to increase taxes on oil companies, as long as it is not excessive, and they will in turn invest more in domestic drilling. Of course, they won't pass the extra taxes on to us in higher prices. Yea, this all appears to be based on sound logic and common sense.

Considering that her primary target throughout her political career has been repubs, why is anyone surprised that some don't like her?

Eureka Springs just keeps at it:

"You are defending a mother in the late late term of carrying a child who is a child with extra special needs, while the mother tells all the world she leaked across the country on planes... refusing to go to the doctor. She could have easily killed or harmed that very late term baby. But critics who question that, are smug or nasty?"

What people are who dwell on the supposed fragility of pregnant women are, are sexists. This sort of back-seat ob-gyn practice on your part is stinky, just like Bill Frist "diagnosing" Terri Schiavo by video from the floor of Congress is stinky.

Really, people, Palin has done all sorts of corrupt and stupid crap, and all you can do is dwell on her qualifications to make babies? What's next? Are you going to criticize Republican career women for not staying home barefoot and pregnant?

This is a really stupid line of argument, self-destructive and unprincipled, and you folks pushing it really need to stick a cork into whichever of your own orifices would do the most good. Whatever works.

1989 Compuserve Alum

Since we can only tax companies for their work in our country we can send a lot more mean old oil companies and roughneck jobs overseas.

By the way, Jake, thanks for considering me a voice of reason. I'm not used to that, especially when I'm yelling and cussing and telling people to stick a cork in it. But I believe you're right--I'm doing a reasonable job of it.

I know it's early in the month, but these lines yielded my deepest laugh of September so far:

"You are shameless. This has been debunked, but you're happy to keep running it. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, Max. I've linked a post from another blog calling you out."

Posted by: Anonymous

Y'all show some charity to that poor fellow's hit counter and take a look at the link.

perhaps it is an all too common a hypocrisy in modern american politics, but a woman in a position to effect and implement public policies, asserting 'abstinence-only' education as what she believes is best for everyone, to have a teenage daughter get pregnant, is one thing...

but to campaign as "pro-life" for a position in which it is entirely possible that she could be the "decider" of several US Supreme Court nominations, after having engaged in arguably very risky behavior with the life of her own unborn child is, to me, a whole nuther level of political hypocrisy.

I don't want to shock you 'kids' but abstinence for unmarrieds was the standard throughout most of our history. It certainly was during my lifetime. If someone violated that standard they met the wrath of the culture. It is your 'if it feels good do it' mentality that is the most recent in our nation's history. That is why we have so many people practicing it and getting pregnant or having abortions.

There is a lot of information I'd like to have before weighing in on Palin's decision to travel after labor started, starting with what was the counsel with her physician. What were her experience with other pregnancies? Was she concerned about support, her, her husband's or her family's. Why did she decide to travel while pregnant? What were her contingency plans.

Not much is know yet, and to be honest, I am not sure that it wasn't her decision to make and relatively unimportant as it affects her qualifications for VP.

I wouldn't have a kid at home or in a hot tub, but that doesn't mean I'd disagree with one's right to do so nor would I say the decision was inapporpriate.

"It is your 'if it feels good do it' mentality that is the most recent in our nation's history."

Way to oversimplify, teach.

Abstinence for unmarrieds has never been standard. If it were, the shotgun wedding and the remarkable ability of eager wives to hurriedly produce babies in seven months would be unheard of. What has been standard, and is no longer, is culturally forced marriage for those who produce a pregnancy. That's got pluses and minuses, with many of the minuses due to hangovers from the days when pregnant women either got married or were ostracized.

http://mudflats.wordpress.com/
great blog!

PRETENDING that people didn't have sex before marriage has been the norm through a lot of history. Parents like to think like that, but teenagers have always had sex, and they always will.

Yea, you guys got all the answers. I look at our cesspool culture and it reminds me of your ideology.

I said it was the 'standard' not always the practice. Those who defied the standard met the consequences from the culture.

McCain picking this woman to lead this country in the event that he dies in office is a slap in the face to every human being on Earth. What was he thinking?
I've done my research, and this is not about her kids (who should be left out of it) but about her lack of smarts and her ego.
I just can't understand why MCCain picked her, of all people.
Can you???????

Well, I know how you feel. I'm trying to figure out how a political party could pick a senator with only 143+ days of experience to be the chief executive officer of this country. Do you know why?

strangelove, may I point out that it's not my daughter whose pregnant, nor did my wife travel over 1000 miles with baby goo running down her leg...depending on which story is true.

What is the Palin ideology? Add to that, now ABC is confirming that Miss Wasilla was once a member of the AIP Party, the Alaskan Independence Party that wants Alaskans to be able to vote to secede from the United States.

Again....what is the Palin ideology?

What is also no longer standard, John, is early marriage, shotgun or otherwise. In my youth, and it really wasn't that long ago, even if I sometimes feel otherwise, marriage at 16 or 17 was not at all unusual. Indeed, unless she planned to go to college, if a girl wasn't planning her wedding just out of high school, she felt left behind. When my parents came of age, a 13 or 14 year old bride wasn't unusual.
And Strange, I'll emphasize John's point by noting that the girl who got "caught" but married escaped most of the ostracism. The one who was dealt with harshly was the girl whose boyfriend skipped out rather than share the blame, if I may call it that. The girl faced culture's wrath. The boy? Not so much. It's called the double standard.

"Since we can only tax companies for their work in our country we can send a lot more mean old oil companies and roughneck jobs overseas."

Ha.
Ha, Ha
Ha, Ha, Ha
LMAO!

That's what's been happening da. Cheney's group , Haliburton, is moving to Dubai next year,
where the oil and money is located.
.

The Palin ideology? Whatever Sarah wants, Sarah gets. Let's hope that's not the case this time.
And I'm still inclined to think there's more to the story than we've heard. Someone said on this thread or another that something's fishy. I agree. Wait until the seventh month to announce your pregnancy? Fly across two countries and bypass who knows how many major hospitals to have your baby "prematurely" (six pounds?) in a small community hospital, delivered by a family practicioner? Uh uh. Something's fishy.

"I don't want to shock you 'kids' but abstinence for unmarrieds was the standard throughout most of our history. It certainly was during my lifetime. If someone violated that standard they met the wrath of the culture. It is your 'if it feels good do it' mentality that is the most recent in our nation's history."

Strange, I swear. I don't know what to say. You may think I'm stalking you but I'm not. I just read with interest what you post because you do it with such authority. But if you really believe that comment of yours I c/p then please go and read up on the Old South's slave culture. Read the diaries written by white southern women as to what went on and what they were not supposed to notice.. Read about social history and the culture history of the Old South. "Gone With The Wind" doesn't count.

This has been one interesting week so far. I have included a link to my favorite dead comedian/social commentator Bill Hicks. If he were around today he would have so much material he would not know what to do with it all.

Look, Palin is going to pull in a ton of votes for the Republicans. Already, the Nation's Evangelical leaders are lining up behind her in support because her daughter did not abort the baby. The Palin story is not new to any of us living here in Arkansas...we all know families like hers.

Someone in the above comments stated that the Democratic Party was 'machiavellian'...please. The Republican Party is the master of Machiavellian politics. It is truly fascinating to watch them work in the same way it is to watch a tornado. You know some deep doo doo is going down, but you can't help but be awed.

If one practices 'politics' then one is Machiavellian. It is really silly to say it is true or one and not the other. You should read 'The Prince' before you speak of his works.

Look, I don't need to read history I lived it. I lived in the 50s and I know what our culture was like at the ground level. I don't need a lecture from someone who only knows the theoretical.

And for all the people who slammed Bill Clinton for smoking pot, Palin freely admits it, laughs about it, and admits she inhaled.
LOL.

I have. But Machicavellian has a different context now that in "The Prince", i.e:
The pejorative term Machiavellian as it is used today (or anti-Machiavellism as it was used from the sixteenth century) is thus a misnomer, as it describes one who deceives and manipulates others for gain; whether the gain is personal or not is of no relevance, only that any actions taken are only important insofar as they affect the results. It fails to include some of the more moderating themes found in Machiavelli's works and the name is now associated with the extreme viewpoint.

Look, the illegitimacy rate in this country was next to nil during my lifetime until the late 60s and 70s when it started to skyrocket. That is not theoretical. The loosening of the cultural standards and the diminishing of social sanctions led to this.

Look I don't care about Juneau Palin's sex life, I want to know if there has been a coverup!

sorry for the gramatical errors...been a long day of BBQ and beer

Machiavelli wrote down the principles of gaining and maintaining political power. The principles are as applicable today as they were in his day. Have you ever read 'The Prince'? Have you ever studied the book? Clinton was a student of it.

Here's hoping that Bristol has a happy, healthy baby, that Bristol and Levi get plenty of secular as well as faith-based counseling before they go through with the teenaged wedding, and that Gov. Palin has plenty of time in Wasilla over the next four years to dote over the grandchild daily, and even babysit on weekends while Bristol and Levi take in a movie.

And for all the people who slammed Bill Clinton for smoking pot, Palin freely admits it, laughs about it, and admits she inhaled.

"freely admits it" versus "I did not inhale that joint"

Those of you of the lefty persuasion need to read C. Wright Mills' 'Power, Politics and People'. He is more to your inclination. Stay away from Machiavelli.

oh bloody hell... Bristol has a MySpace page that hath not been scrubbed (and it aint pretty)

presuming of course, 'tis not a hoax

time will tell

muleboy303 - Going back into ancient history, before CompuServe or public Internet, there was a national dial-up service called "The Source" available in 1979. It was incredibly expensive, but one could discuss politics on it.

Prior to that, to the best of my knowledge, the only way to get online in Arkansas was with Teletype, paper tape and chad boxes.

dunno if these are actuals or a hoax, but speaking of every picture tells a story...

i wonder what these tell ? (name/link)

i b hip ab, to me the best way to discuss politics is by text
(though pics/video does come in handy sometimes)
'tis one of the reasons why i enjoy AT blog so much

It's not clear whether the boyfriend is 20 or 25. I hope, for everyone's sake, he's 20.

Mud, Bill explained it to my sister who worked for him when he was the guv - he wanted to look cool but didn't inhale because of his allergies. And who f***ing cares now? Clinton is not in the race.
But McCain's choice for the VP is. She accepted, knowing that every aspect of her life is now open for everyone to see.
I cringe when I think of the world view of the USA.
After eight long years of misery, we have McCain/Palin offering up their vision of the future?
I campaigned for Hillary Clinton, but I am Obama all the way........
We as Americans cannot afford another mistake. McCain would be a mistake.

i fell for it
(glad i added some caveats)

the photos are from Bristol's fiance's sister's myspace page

please pardon

Stranglelove...there are some very well read bloggers on here. I singled out Machiavelli because a Righty used his name to describe some Lefties.

never mind...

Alaska's statutory rape law
from (http://blog.laborlawtalk.com/2006/10/18/alaska-statutory-rape-laws/)
If a person who is at least 18 years old engages in sexual activity with a person who is 16 years old or younger, he or she will be charged with sexual abuse of a minor in the first degree. This charge is a felony in Alaska. And remember, it does not matter if you did not force or threaten the other person into performing this sexual act with you. It is still a crime under Alaska statutory rape laws.

Any person who is 16 years old or older who has sexual intercourse with a minor who is 13-, 14-, or 15-years-old will be charged with sexual abuse of a minor in the second degree. Again, this charge is also a felony.

You can also be charged with a felony - sexual abuse in the third degree - if you are at least 16 years old and you have sex with anyone who is age 13-15, or if the person is a minor at least three years younger than you. In addition, Alaska statutory rape laws declare that anyone who is 18 years old or older who has sex with a person who is 16 or 17, or who is at least three years younger than the offender, can be charged with sexual abuse in the third degree. This is also a felony.

Scottie, how do you know that I am not one of those well read political scientists?

"And for all the people who slammed Bill Clinton for smoking pot, Palin freely admits it, laughs about it, and admits she inhaled...."

I learned in the DARE Program that it is exactly this inhalation of the devil weed pot that obviously created Palin's DNA damage which resulted in a Downs Syndrome fetus.

Machiavelli is a PROCESS not an ideology. Right or left they don't know what there talking about if they ascribe him to a particular ideology. It is at its most basic level a 'primer' on gaining and keeping power. At its essence it is about POWER.

Oh strangelove....remember when you wet your crotch crying over those poor mistreated Fox News people who were shoved out of the way and told to FK off? Click on my name and see what happened in St. Paul today. The Nazi-like lock down of that city is really of more importance than Juneau Palin's sudden implantation of a donor's 5 month old fetus.

DBI, you call about the pot calling the kettle black! Reread your comments throughout the day.

All I have seen on TV today is the hurricane. You mean the repubs had a convention?

"Look, the illegitimacy rate in this country was next to nil during my lifetime . . ."
No, Strange, it may have been in your neighborhood, but not where I sat looking. Probably wasn't in your neighborhood either.
Don't you remember the girl down the street who went to live with her aunt for a few months? Or went to the Crittenden Home? Or the Salvation Army facility in Topeka? There were a number of those around here. Then there were the pregnant girls who stayed home with the blinds closed all day. When they went into labor, Daddy drove them to University hospital. They stayed a few days, then came home while the baby went home with a nice couple.
Let's not forget the waitress at the local hangout who moonlighted on the side and had six fatherless kiddies in those days before the pill. There were two or three of those that I know of.
And then there were the women from the other side of town who had to shoo their men out the back door when the welfare lady came by checking.
Were you really that sheltered, Strange?

You are speaking anecdotal. Google the illegitimate birth rates by decade and the issue will be settled. Like it or not in this country the illegitimate birth rate has soared during the later 60s and 70s compared to the 50s and before.

Here is a link to the website of the Alaskan Independence Party (AIP), to which Gov. Sarah Palin once belonged. One of the founders of this party is quoted as follows:

"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."
--Joe Vogler

See http://www.akip.org/introduction.html

Here's a link to Jake Tapper's story about Palin being a member of the AIP.

See http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html

For about 30 years, the AIP has wanted to hold a vote, in which Alaskans get to choose between independence, territory status, commonwealth status, or statehood. The party's basic claim is that the citizens of the Alaska Territory were never offered these choices in a referendum before statehood was granted in 1959.

I can't read this fast after a day-long break from my favorites, and NOW if it's not bad enough with the usual suspects, we have a wingnut coming on here PREACHING, literally?!! chasv is one thing, but the profundo CitizenJournal is getting into Wes/strange territory. Help stamp out preacher-TROLLS!!!
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It's weird to me that any person or party would make political hay out of someone's very, very, very personal decision to not abort a fetus.

Not saying it's wrong. It's just weird. To me.

"Illegitimate birth rate", "illegitimate baby", and other similar terminology are as particularly offensive to me as those concepts are to the people who use them.

I'm sick of the state determining what a legitimate family looks like.

GEEZ strange, are you THAT old?? "...abstinence for unmarrieds was the standard ... It certainly was during my lifetime..." What a crock.

REALLY? - well I can tell you that it was NOT the practice in my part of the upper Plains in the mid-fifties I'd estimate that at least 50-60% of my high-school classmates were sexually active WAY before they graduated, and unless he was lying to me, my dad always copped that it was the same for him - in the late-20's! You must be one of them "moral" Bible-belters, where they ALWAYS practice what they preach.
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That's what's been happening da. Cheney's group , Haliburton, is moving to Dubai next year, where the oil and money is located. Posted by: eLwood| September 1, 2008 09:09 PM

It is a win-win case. I get more tax free dividends and you get the shaft.

Like it or not in this country the illegitimate birth rate has soared during the later 60s and 70s compared to the 50s and before.<<<

Look at the number of teens in the demographics. That number also soared. In the event you missed out it is called the "boomer generation" from 1945 until early 1960.

It was the first generation to have a car designed and manufactured for it...Think Mustang. It was the first generation to have available birth control pills.

.

"Cheney's group , Haliburton, is moving to Dubai next year, where the oil and money is located.."

More important than that, Haliburton is moving where, despite the hundreds of billions of US tax dollars they have swilled in during ONLY the Iraq war, in Dubai they not have to pay any US income tax. (As if they ever do.)
I wonder where Cheney's new office will be in the world's tallest building? As you pay your income tax next year, please mull how much Haliburton and Cheney and all the Bushes are laughing their tails off at you making them all so wealthy, as they gaze out from high above over the Middle East, where all your $$$ for $5 a gallon gasoline goes by then.

Hey, stranglove, you left something out when you posted this:
"I don't want to shock you 'kids' but abstinence for unmarrieds was the standard throughout most of our history. It certainly was during my lifetime. If someone violated that standard they met the wrath of the culture. It is your 'if it feels good do it' mentality that is the most recent in our nation's history. That is why we have so many people practicing it and getting pregnant or having abortions.
Posted by: strangelove"

The part you DON'T mention is that it was also standard for women to "bring on the menses" up to the time the fetus was felt to be moving, at about 4 or 5 month along.

Women used herbs and other methods of "bringing on the menses" back then. The only ones that were forced to carry on to term were those that either didn't realize they were pregnant, or were afraid to tell anyone until it was too late, or were in denial until they felt the fetus move which was too late, or that didn't know about the options. It was mostly "good girls" that ended up being pregnant and going to term against their will. As usual, the ones that are indoctrinated into the restrictive cultures are the ones that suffer.

Lots of things can cause abortions. Notice how there are all kinds of warnings for pregnant women? if you know what you are doing, and can deal with the pain of a miscarriage/abortion, you can do it without anyone knowing you were pregnant. Keeping the females in the dark about this is how they are forced to stay pregnant to term.

Palin secured earmarks for town As mayor,
VP pick obtained millions in funds, a tactic McCain has criticized
By Paul Kane
The Washington Post
updated 2:47 a.m. CT, Tues., Sept. 2, 2008

ST. PAUL, Minn. - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin employed a lobbying firm to secure almost $27 million in federal earmarks for a town of 6,700 residents while she was its mayor, according to an analysis by an independent government watchdog group.

There was $500,000 for a youth shelter, $1.9 million for a transportation hub, $900,000 for sewer repairs, and $15 million for a rail project -- all intended to benefit Palin's town, Wasilla, located about 45 miles north of Anchorage.

In introducing Palin as his running mate on Friday, Sen. John McCain cast her as a compatriot in his battle against wasteful federal spending. McCain, the Republican presidential candidate, hailed Palin as a politician "with an outstanding reputation for standing up to special interests and entrenched bureaucracies -- someone who has fought against corruption and the failed policies of the past, someone who's stopped government from wasting taxpayers' money."

McCain's crusade against earmarks -- federal spending sought by members of Congress to benefit specific projects -- has been a hallmark of his campaign. He has said earmarks are wasteful and are often inserted into bills with little oversight, sometimes by a single powerful lawmaker.

Palin has also railed against earmarks, touting her opposition to a $223 million bridge in the state as a prime credential for the vice presidential nomination. "As governor, I've stood up to the old politics-as-usual, to the special interests, to the lobbyists, the big oil companies, and the good-ol'-boy network," she said Friday.

As mayor of Wasilla, however, Palin oversaw the hiring of Robertson, Monagle & Eastaugh, an Anchorage-based law firm with close ties to Alaska's most senior Republicans: Rep. Don Young and Sen. Ted Stevens, who was indicted in July on charges of accepting illegal gifts. The Wasilla account was handled by the former chief of staff to Stevens, Steven W. Silver, who is a partner in the firm.

Palin was elected mayor of Wasilla in 1996 on a campaign theme of "a time for change." According to a review of congressional spending by Taxpayers for Common Sense, a nonpartisan watchdog group in Washington, Wasilla did not receive any federal earmarks in the first few years of Palin's tenure.

Senate records show that Silver's firm began working for Palin in early 2000, just as federal money began flowing.

In fiscal 2000, Wasilla received a $1 million earmark, tucked into a transportation appropriations bill, for a rail and bus project in the town. And in the winter of 2000, Palin appeared before congressional appropriations committees to seek earmarks, according to a report in the Anchorage Daily News.

Palin and the Wasilla City Council increased Silver's fee from $24,000 to $36,000 a year by 2001, Senate records show.

Soon after, the city benefited from additional earmarks: $500,000 for a mental health center, $500,000 for the purchase of federal land and $450,000 to rehabilitate an agricultural processing facility. Then there was the $15 million rail project, intended to connect Wasilla with the town of Girdwood, where Stevens has a house.

The Washington trip is now an annual event for Wasilla officials.

In fiscal year 2002, Wasilla took in $6.1 million in earmarks -- about $1,000 in federal money for every resident. By contrast, Boise, Idaho -- which has more than 190,000 residents -- received $6.9 million in earmarks in fiscal 2008.

Savvy to Washington ways
All told, Wasilla benefited from $26.9 million in earmarks in Palin's final four years in office.

"She certainly wasn't shy about putting the old-boy network to use to bring home millions of dollars," said Steve Ellis, vice president of Taxpayers for Common Sense. "She's a little more savvy to the ways of Washington than she's let on."

Silver, reached by phone at his Vienna home, declined to comment. Wasilla's town offices were closed Monday for the Labor Day holiday.

Maria Comella, Palin's campaign spokeswoman, said Palin sought the Wasilla earmarks because she was "working in the best interests of Alaska, working within the confines of the current system."

Palin became a staunch reform advocate after her 2003 appointment to the state's Oil and Gas Commission. She accused another commissioner -- Alaska Republican Party Chairman Randy Ruedrich -- of raising campaign contributions from industries he was regulating. "She realized that the environment around her was no longer what it once was, and elected officials were abusing their power," Comella said.

Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential nominee, used to secure earmarks for public nonprofits in Illinois, but he announced last year that he would no longer seek earmarks for any entity. Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (Del.), Obama's running mate, co-sponsored $85.6 million in earmarks for 2008, according to one study.

The Palin earmarks came when Stevens was chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee and Young was a senior member of the House transportation committee.

In hiring Silver, Wasilla found someone who was a member of each lawmaker's inner circle. Silver has donated at least $11,400 to Stevens's political committees and $10,000 to Young's reelection committee in the past decade, according to Federal Election Commission records.

Sliver's firm employed Stevens's son, Ben Stevens, in the late 1990s as a federal lobbyist, according to multiple media accounts. Ben Stevens was not listed on lobbying disclosure forms as having worked on Wasilla earmarks.

Probe into Alaska Republicans
The firm became ensnared in the wide-ranging federal investigation of corruption by Alaska Republican officials. Federal agents reviewed records about its other municipal clients, as well as fishing companies represented by Robertson, Monagle & Eastaugh that were close to Ben Stevens.

The investigation has increasingly focused on Veco, a now-defunct energy services company whose chief executive, Bill Allen Jr., pleaded guilty in May 2007 to bribing Alaska officials.

Ted Stevens is awaiting trial on charges that he accepted more than $250,000 in unreported gifts from Allen. Ben Stevens, who has not been charged, has been identified in court documents as having accepted more than $240,000 in consulting payments in exchange for legislative favors while he served in the state Senate.

A Veco executive testified last year in a criminal trial that Allen had ordered him to arrange annual fundraisers for Young. The congressman has not been charged with any crimes.

After becoming governor, Palin became a critic of Young and the Stevenses. She endorsed Young's opponent in a Republican primary last week that is still too close to call, and last year she demanded Ben Stevens's resignation as Alaska's member of the Republican National Committee. She has also criticized Ted Stevens.

In addition, Palin has reversed course on at least one major earmark: After initially supporting the $223 million bridge, which was to connect the town of Ketchikan with a remote island, she reversed course last year and canceled the project because of cost overruns. Critics have dubbed the project the "Bridge to Nowhere."

But her administration remains eager for many other earmarks.

In February, Palin's office sent Sen. Stevens a 70-page memo outlining almost $200 million worth of new funding requests for Alaska.

© 2008 The Washington Post Company

I agree with the McCain staffer: Life Happens. The thing Dobson would do well to remember, however, is that Life Happens even if it's a Dem. We all know damned well that if it had been Joe Biden with a pregnant, un-wed daughter, it wouldn't have been "life happening" as much as it would have been poor, neglectful parenting on the part of the Bidens. It would have been the direct cause of the senator being away in Washington during the day rather than properly raising his daughter to respect her body as a "Temple."

God forbid this would ever happen in Arkansas to a gay, adoptive parent...then it would have been the direct work of the parents promoting a lifestyle of promiscuity and irresponsibility...

Obviously, none of these reasons are actually the case. It's simply that the governor's daughter got caught being a human...something we all do.

I agree with the McCain staffer: Life Happens. The thing Dobson would do well to remember, however, is that Life Happens even if it's a Dem. We all know damned well that if it had been Joe Biden with a pregnant, un-wed daughter, it wouldn't have been "life happening" as much as it would have been poor, neglectful parenting on the part of the Bidens. It would have been the direct cause of the senator being away in Washington during the day rather than properly raising his daughter to respect her body as a "Temple."

God forbid this would ever happen in Arkansas to a gay, adoptive parent...then it would have been the direct work of the parents promoting a lifestyle of promiscuity and irresponsibility...

Obviously, none of these reasons are actually the case. It's simply that the governor's daughter got caught being a human...something we all do.

"It's simply that the governor's daughter got caught being a human...something we all do."

I'm sorry BD, it's NOT "something we all do" in THIS case. "We all" don't have unprotected sex as teenagers - that's not "life happening," it's STUPID!!! THAT is what actual sex EDUCATION might point out, as well as actual "personal responsibility" and actual BIRTH CONTROL - as opposed to some phony baloney "just say no" nonsense that ends up, sadly, with the actual HIGH potential of ruining not one, not two, but THREE lives - while pretending that "they intend to marry" is somehow noble, rather than what it actually is, an unnecessary, high-risk roll of the dice.

In our case, there is a DIRECT link between our lack of education (2nd lowest degreed citizenry in the US, up only recently from the bottom) and the high frequency of both teen marriages and deliveries. It's spelled S-T-U-P-I-D-I-T-Y!!! And it applies to both Palin's daughter AND her bullshit abstinence ONLY "education" - an obvious oxymoron supported not only by Repugs, but OUR "democrats" in Congress. NOT rocket science, but then ANY kind of science is rejected out-of-hand by the dimwits - Bible Belters of any persuasion and Repugs!!!!

Good grief!!! - how the brain can disengage when "ideology" raises it's destructive head...
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Unless of course, Bluedonkey, Bristol got caught in the vicious jaws of the Republican Dirty Tricks Election Machine. If Bristol gave birth last April to the Palin's grandson Trig, how cruel yesterday must have been for her. And if Bristol isn't pregnant now, either someone had her legs in the air last night or she will have to fake the loss of a child in the future....and what a disgusting thing to type!

But if these people can cold-bloodedly send 4150 US troops to die for Exxon, what's torturing a 17 year old girl to them? They can pretend she wears a burka and fillet her like a fish.

We're finding out that McCain vetted her like I vetted my morning bowel movement a few minutes ago. The McCain campaign said Sarah Palin had a full background check by the FBI. Yesterday the FBI quietly said they never heard of Palin until McCain announced her for his running mate. The wingers are talking about how McCain looked into her eyes and saw her soul like Bush did Putin.....pure bullshit, he met her for 10 minutes face to face 2 months ago.

The little rich boy who drove a new Corvette to high school is lazy....has been for years. He's lazy now....he picked the over 40 pin-up girl as the rubbed his old crotch and said to America, Horse em! Yesterday Gustav should have reminded all of us of 3 years ago when Heck of a Job Brownie said Horse em to the dying Americans in the waters of New Orleans....actually the Bush administration waited 5 or 6 days to notice the dead bodies in New Orleans. Lazy and they just don't care.

I wouldn't have minded the corruption of the last 8 years. We're pretty used to our politicians being corrupt, but the Bushies have been lazy, incompetent, AND corrupt, producing the worst 8 years since the Depression. Now McCain wants to give us 4 more years of "the same." I'm sick of hearing "the same" but by god it fits so well. McCain will pay the same amount of attention to America's problems and honor that he paid to the picking of his VP candidate and that will be the final nail in America's coffin. Even crazy Christian neo-con Republicans on this blog should realize that, hold their nose and vote Democrat this time to break the chain as Oprah says.

At the rate bad news is showing up for Palin, I fully expect by this afternoon to hear she has 4 more children chained up in her basement...not a far step away from mothering your own grandchild if you think about it for a minute.

Watch the Republicans tonight.....they look coked out. 8 years of pretending to do "busy work" while they robbed and raped as hard as they could go 24-7 have burned them out. Maybe the best punishment is to make them keep running on the greed treadmill another 4 years so they'll die. But for the sake of my family, I can't go that route. The lying criminal sacks of shit have to go and they can take their friend Mark W. Pryor with them!