Arkansas Blog

In a day when there's so much bad news, this is a shining moment. As a social worker and former foster parent, I was appalled when I learned that DHS had, without public notice, instituted this practice 3 years ago after the Arkansas judicial system struck down as unconstitutional their ban on gay and lesbian foster homes. We've taken a huge step forward in improving the foster care system by allowing judges and social workers to look at all the options for safe, nurturing care. I applaud the Arkansas Times and Gov. Mike Beebe for opposing Initiated Act 1 which would send us once again into the dark ages and would hurt our most vulnerable kids by severely limiting their options for a good home.

"FAMILY COUNCIL NEWS RELEASE
Pressure from pro-gay special interest groups causes state to fold: Gay couples can now foster children in Arkansas. Act 1 needed now more than ever."

Wait a minute Jerry, is Act 1 about gays?

Tip of the hat to Max and the AT for keeping this issue in the lights. Tip of the hat to Governor Beebe for acting.

Wag of the finger to Jerry Cox and all the haters.

Thank you. There are not enough foster homes as it is.

>>Gay couples can now foster children in Arkansas. Act 1 needed now more than ever. <<

LET'S GET THIS SHOUT OUT STARTED. Gays could Foster BEFORE and GAYS can adopt AFTER that silly Initiated Act 1 passes, if it does. They just cannot say that are co-habitating. Easy enough for most folks.

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Oh I love beautiful days when the Religious Right are up in arms. When I was little I never thought I'd live in a time when church folk = hate group. Do you think maybe the problem is a lack of education? I mean educating Bible beaters in the ways of gays?

They obviously think child molester when they hear the word gay. They must picture them as goat-tee wearing men drooling into their laps as they sit by a grade school with binoculars. It has to be a fear thing with them, to come up with so many anti-gay ideas, thoughts and hate words.

Of course there are bad apples in every group....including this Family Council bunch. But if we judged white people by the worst act of one white person...oh...say Jeffery Dahmer...then there'd be a bounty on white people. Same for gays. Pick up any newspaper, pick up 10 years worth of newspapers. You'll find that 99.99% of gay people get up every morning and go off to do the same kinda things you and I do. They're just about as good and bad as the rest of us. They whoop it up when their young and grow calm and uninteresting in middle age like we do.

Tell me a 75 year old straight white married woman with her hair dyed some red color not found in nature, covered in Mary Kay makeup and cheap flashy jewelry bought on QVC is less ridiculous looking than an old gay man swirling his hair up from the back of his neck wearing a gold chain around his saggy neck. Ack.....I've ruined my dinner.

My point is.....these Bible beaters dream up these horrible baby licking creatures that very rarely ever exist outside their loony minds. Statistics show that the vast majority of child molesters are straight men....a point I'm not real proud of.

Arkansas has a need for foster parents, proper screening of ALL applicants is important and should be done. But barring a group of good people who just happen to be a little different from you and me is a dumb thing. Hurray for DHS and Mike Beebe for taking a stand.

But really......we need a class in homosexuality, maybe a series on AETN to educate those who hate first and never bother to ever check a fact or get to know someone who isn't a goosestepping clone of themselves. Expand your mind and the rest will follow!

Its unfortunate that "Hate" has become such a cheapened word that now it's commonly used to describe anyone that disagrees with another person's position.

"Hate" is a convenient crutch to use when you don't want to make any attempt to understand the other person so you can convince them why they are wrong - for the lazy slacker, its just easier to alienate those you disagree with rather than invest a sincere effort in convincing them to change for the better.

DonK......i just did a re-read of all the comments on this thread and I didn't see hate anywhere. Only people thankful that DHS finally came to see the light and do the right thing. The only hate is in Family Council's press release.

dbi that is very very sick to think a lesson in homosexuality will help anyone.
Gays, dbi, needs to learn the ways of God. You do too.
God said I would that ye were cold or hot for if you are lukewarm I'll spue you out of my mouth.
Gays are just that, lukewarm. You can't deny that.

Wow chasv, welcome back!!!!

Are you saying that there is something about gays that is lukewarm that you had to spue out of your mouth? That's just preverted.

i just did a re-read of all the comments on this thread and I didn't see hate anywhere. Only people thankful that DHS finally came to see the light and do the right thing. The only hate is in Family Council's press release.-Posted by: Charles Eddie Smith
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Charles:
You might want to read the thread again. A simple word search finds four specific instances of the word "Hate" used in this topic before you even get to my comment.

Try as I might, I could not find the word "Hate" in the Family Council press release. In case my reading skills have slipped, please point it out to me. Otherwise, I guess since you disagree with them, "Hate" apparently is what you personally chose to read into their position.

Again, you illustrate that "Hate" is a label that has become far too easy to proclaim in comparison to the more difficult task of patiently engaging the other side with a reasoned attempt at persuasion.

Charles Eddie,

Don must have been referring to my comments, when I wagged a finger at the haters. I was referring to Jerry Cox and all the people who think that you have to be a heterosexual to matter in this world. That they have a desire to sit down with me so that I can attempt to explain to them why they're wrong is a little dubious. But I'd be willing to try.

What's funny to me is the statement that its just easier to alienate those you disagree with rather than invest a sincere effort in convincing them to change for the better.

In the big picture, who's alienating whom here? I'm no social scientist, but I'd venture to say that sexual orientation is more difficult to change than an attitude toward the subject.

Don, I have an earnest challenge for you. I'll give you two hours if you'll give me 95 minutes. If you'll watch the documentary, "For The Bible Tells Me So", I'll watch whatever documentary you recommend.

I promise I'll watch with an open mind, and a willingness to change my attitude.

It's free at my name.

You may well be right hugh......i did see your finger=wag. As for you DonK I have had opportunities to sit down with anti-gay people to try to reason with them........but they are all like Republicans, facts and reason don't matter only their own deluded opinions.

As far as Jerry Cox and the Family Council is concerned hate really doesn't figure into my thoughts about them. Disgust amd loathing seem to be a much better fit.

The link at my name above only takes you to a page where you can learn a little more about the film, purchase a dvd, or watch a short trailer. But if you'll rent it at your favorite movie rental place, I will happily reimburse the cost. Hopefully Max would help broker the deal.

And I promise I'll watch the documentary of your choice--same conditions.

charlie, if God would let you just sit down with him I am positive that the Lord would make you understand in short order that he will not tollerate homosexuals by showing you how hot hell is. Not only is hell hot but God is not there.. Oh, yes, He is here right now but you will be completely alone in hell.. no God to call upon..
Did you all know that Jesus is going to change his name when the world has ended?
He is! Do you have any idea why he going to change His name? Do YOU? OF course you do not know...
I will tell you if you ask.

Don, Do you have a better description of A.) not allowing citizens to marry the consenting adult of their choosing B.) prying into the bedrooms of citizens for your own purient interests C.) supporting or fighting for laws that carve out a section of the citizenry to deny them an opportunity to do something positive for a child? Maybe "hate" is a bit strong, but it's certainly not "loving your neighbor as yourself".

And I have sat down with anti-gay friends and family members to discuss our differences on the topic. I never can get more of an argument than "God says it's wrong". OK, fair enough. I then ask if these people realize that in the same section of the Bible says "no eating shrimp", "men, gotta keep those beards" and "women, banish yourselves from society for a week every month" ?? Apparently, THOSE parts are now OK, but the gay stuff, still bad. I generally ask "when was that made OK, but the rest not? I never do get a clear answer. If you have one, I'm all ears.

If a church-based orphanage that accepted NO tax dollars wanted to say "we will not place one of our children in a household with cohabitating adults", I'd support that, by the way. Using your own funds, you can do what you want. Serving the citizens as a state agency using tax dollars from all citizens, however means you have to serve the entire citizenry. Period. Why is that so hard to understand?

DonK and chasv....i would like for you to do something for me...open up google and do a search for A Letter to Louise.......its a long article written by a retired Baptist minister.....it's long but if you have the attention span for it read the whole thing..........OK?

Hugh:
Thanks for the offer - I checked out the trailers that I could find and I'm willing to view it (No obligation - you don't have to reciprocate). Its available at Netflix with this description:

"In this Sundance documentary, director Daniel Karslake goes to the Bible to examine the ways in which conservative Christian groups have used -- and sometimes exploited -- holy Scripture to deny basic human rights to gays and lesbians around the world. Highlights include interviews with V. Gene Robinson, the first openly gay bishop in the Anglican Communion, and Chrissy Gephardt, the lesbian daughter of former U.S. Rep. Dick Gephardt."

Please don't mistake my position - Regardless of any agenda the filmmaker might have, I don't doubt the veracity of this description - that some churches would, (and have) venomously condemned gays and have wrongly exploited them for their actions. Although I believe their sexual conduct is wrong, it is just a sin no better or worse than a multitude of other sexual sins (heterosexual, individual, group or otherwise) that we sanctimoniously tolerate or ignore.

I have gay friends, have had gay co-workers, for a while had gay neighbors - even experimented with it when I was younger ( a whole, whole lot younger).

I even had scriptural discussions with a gay co-worker (that he always initiated) that led to me getting a pink slip - at his instigation. In my opinion, this was more a reflection of the fear the employer had of the gay community and its potential impact on his business since I easily worked with gay customers, all of my performance reviews had been exceptional and I was a financial producer. Most people would be bitter about that but I'm not - things have pretty much worked out fine for both of us.

I question Charles Eddie's pretty useless statement that, in his words, "anti-gay" people are deluded and not willing to listen to reason. But this may be more a reflection of his presentation than it is of his audience. In my experience, I have found that when I disagree with a gay, I am instantly labeled a "homophobe" and the burden somehow shifts to me to disprove it. If I want to continue the dialog, I have to ignore the condescension and name calling and find a place for engagement without being adversarial. Sometimes we continue to talk, sometimes it's a lost cause.

So, I have gotten long winded - Out of curiosity, I will check out your request - although I have preconceived concerns that it will stereotype the church with the extreme examples that even offend the moderate churches.

Since I am investing 95 minutes in this little exchange, I would ask in return that you contribute $25 to Habitat for Humanity and we will call it even.

it's long but if you have the attention span for it read the whole thing..........OK?-Posted by: Charles Eddie Smith
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Charlie:
I just committed myself to 95 minutes - that more than fills my attention span. Not sure that I can work any more participation in at the present time. Can you post a Cliff Notes version?

OK....let me go slower...s l o w e r Maybe this is why some religious organizations in our history have feared education....being in a class or watching a video on homosexuality SHOULD NOT BE HEARD OR CONFUSED WITH being in a class or watching a video that PROMOTES homosexuality. There is no danger is explaining homosexuality, citing facts and figures about how many gays are in prison, or convicted of crimes. Is that number larger than straight folks or the same or lower?

Do gay couples kill each other at a higher rate than straight couples? What is the conviction rate for sex crimes committed by gays vs the number of straight people convicted. This is what I'm talking about.....I really shouldn't have to explain this....this is 2008, I assume we all made it thru at least the 8th grade.

But one parting shot for chasv.....if God hates homosexuals....why did he make them?

"I even had scriptural discussions with a gay co-worker (that he always initiated) that led to me getting a pink slip - at his instigation."

Knee length pink slip?

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

Habitat For Humanity is a fine organization, and I'll be happy to contribute. But the spirit of my challenge was for you to offer me a documentary that supports your side of the argument. I would watch it with an open mind. If there's not a good documentary on your side of that subject, then I'd be willing to watch another film you choose on another subject on which you imagine we disagree.

I'm open.

My partner and I have discussed being foster parents for children currently without foster homes for the past two years. We have been together for five years and provide a stable, secure and safe home life for a needy child. Obviously, we understand some of the concerns of the Family Council by thinking that children may be exposed to behavior that they may deem "perverse". But to be honest, do you see straight comitted foster parents breaking it down on the love seat in front of children? I didn't think so.

The FC seems to not understand the comitted gay couple. They seem to think that there are phallic or vaginal symbols or art strewn throughout the domicile where the child would live. Do you see that with straight married/committed couples? They (FC) are so bizarre. We have a cute home, with 3 dogs who want a playmate so bad. There is an intelligent hardworking person to help with homework, build a treehouse, teach right from wrong, kindness from hate, sew a button back on your shirt, cook a hot meal every night and have everyone sit at the table each night and talk about their day (obviously with 3 dogs underneath the table waiting for scraps to drop because kids don't like cauliflower). There is love in that home to circle the globe and then some; but we are scared. Scared to make the foray into the quagmire that is DHS and the influence of the FC on behalf of the 'denied child' (that is what we call it). Denied because someone's questionable values can pressure a state agency to make inappropriate decisions for a child's care and well-being based on archaic and misguided ideas.

We are willing, qualified and capable of being a foster home, but until this Act goes one way or the other, we will not even consider trying. For God's sake, there is a friend of a friend who is critically ill with a terminal disease who cannot work, rarely more times than not pay her bills, with a child who has been taken from her prior, be considered for foster parenting and adoption through the state!! I TRULY kid you not! What does she have that I don't; their sexual orientation towards men? It is disgraceful!

It is systems (foster care) that breed angry children into hate-filled adults...it is time to change that, one child at a time.

My partner and I have discussed being foster parents for children currently without foster homes for the past two years. We have been together for five years and provide a stable, secure and safe home life for a needy child. Obviously, we understand some of the concerns of the Family Council by thinking that children may be exposed to behavior that they may deem "perverse". But to be honest, do you see straight comitted foster parents breaking it down on the love seat in front of children? I didn't think so.

The FC seems to not understand the committed gay couple. They seem to think that there are phallic or vaginal symbols or art strewn throughout the domicile where the child would live. Do you see that with straight married/committed couples? They (FC) are so bizarre. We have a cute home, with 3 dogs who want a playmate so bad. There is an intelligent hardworking person to help with homework, build a treehouse, teach right from wrong, kindness from hate, sew a button back on your shirt, cook a hot meal every night and have everyone sit at the table each night and talk about their day (obviously with 3 dogs underneath the table waiting for scraps to drop because kids don't like cauliflower). There is love in that home to circle the globe and then some; but we are scared. Scared to make the foray into the quagmire that is DHS and the influence of the FC on behalf of the 'denied child' (that is what we call it). Denied because someone's questionable values can pressure a state agency to make inappropriate decisions for a child's care and well-being based on archaic and misguided ideas.

We are willing, qualified and capable of being a foster home, but until this Act goes one way or the other, we will not even consider trying. For God's sake, there is a friend of a friend who is critically ill with a terminal disease who cannot work, rarely more times than not pay her bills, with a child who has been taken from her prior, be considered for foster parenting and adoption through the state!! I TRULY kid you not! What does she have that I don't; their sexual orientation towards men? It is disgraceful!

It is systems (foster care) that breed angry children into hate-filled adults...it is time to change that, one child at a time.

Apologies for the double posting. Slow connection this evening/morning.

DonKey -

At last you've satiated my curiosity about you and it's HEAVEN!

The "question," over the decades and centuries, of minorities' equal rights under the American Constitution is SO revealing, don't you think, of our nation's psyche and its evolution in terms of facts, science and civil justice? It's like classic "projection" everybody learns in Psych 101 (which I was privileged to study at the Sorbonne. In French. Which perhaps explains . . . oh, never mind.).

You know, where individuals and groups project their own internal ignorance and prejudice, or (if we're lucky) their internal facts and rationality on the nation as a whole for a time.

So take my hand, DonKey, metaphorically, and together let's revisit your above-posted faith journey vis-à-vis gays, down the road you've so clearly led us.

Don't let go, my darling, because - like it or not - I'm dragging you with me through every inch of the mud.

First, let's re-read your entire post. Mentally. Only, try THIS! Every time we see the word "gay" or "lesbian" or "their" or "they," let's substitute the word "Black." Tingly all over? But, YES!

Can't you already FEEL the angry tidal wave of factually, scientifically, ignorant bloggers (some weeds have grown back, here) screaming, "It's not the same thing!"

Well, uh, yes it IS the same thing if you care to read and stay informed with, say, objective science and research over the past 100 years.

So NOW your post reads, "Although I believe blacks' sexual conduct is wrong, it is just a sin no better or worse than a multitude of other sexual sins (heterosexual, individual, group or otherwise) that we sanctimoniously tolerate or ignore."

Isn't this FUN so far, DonKey?! YOUR words, except "gay" is replaced with "black!" A HOOT, no?

So you immediately establish "blacks" and "we" as Us versus Them (presumably your "Us" is Straightwhites and your "them" is Blackgays). "We" are right and "they" are, uh, different. "We" are Americans and "they" are, uh, different.

You're one subtle DONKEY, slipping in all that implied tacit agreement! But don't let go my hand, precious. Our faith-journey's mud thickens.

Notice how those racist homophobic leftovers from previous generations and centuries, recently heard at McCain and Palin rallies ("Kill him!" "I ain't votin' for no queer-lovin' nigger!") sound so harmlessly quaint and nostalgic?

Me either.

So your next statement reassured me, DonKey. (Hang on! It's getting muddier! Have faith!)

"I even had scriptural discussions with a black gay co-worker."

GOD, I was glad to hear you say that. Until I thought about it.

"EVEN," DonKey? You actually went that far as to have a scriptural discussion with The Other?

A "My Myth Is Better Than Your Myth" moment?

Well, yes, because you already said you did when you were "a whole, whole lot younger."

OMG!

Hold tight, DonKey, because continuing this direction leads to quicksand just ahead if we keep parsing your post, so to speak.

But I see the way out!

Let's round-robin back to your, "it is just a sin no better or worse than a multitude of other sexual sins."

WHAT THE FUCK?

(Don't START with me, DonKey. When you dress as well as I, you can pretty much say any fucking thing you want.)

You're saying sex is a sin? There are a multitude of sexual sins? SEX? SEX? SEX? We've got to control and punish The Others' sex lives?

BELIEVE ME, DONKEY, I understand. I really DO! We're about to escape this muddy morass, my friend, so don't let go. The reason I understand?

NOTHING pisses me off more than the thought of somebody else enjoying more "sexual sins" without artificial guilt or remorse than I. NOTHING!

I kid.

You do.

But I gotta tell ya, DonKey, OTHER PEOPLE'S SEX LIVES don't even make my list of top 100 priorities. Do I LIKE other people? Do I respect them? Are they intelligent? Informed? Stable? Caring? Constructive? Giving? Loving?

THOSE things matter to me.

But for you, my darling (just trust me, we're almost out of this cesspool) yours is IMMEDIATELY and SOLELY your religious issue with the rest of the human race. It's about everybody conforming to YOUR religion and electing others who do. It is about theocracy. It is about Fascism in the name of God and Flag.

It's about your obsession with genital pleasure and controlling it in others, rather than anything even more loving and exalted which can arise from sharing genital pleasure.

We're almost there! For . . .

Just on the other side of your fallacious "We" are right and "They" are wrong perspective - in this case equating sex and love and soul-mates with religious conformity, guilt, shame and sin . . . then linking your superstitious neuroses to legislating religious oppression and punishment to unconstitutionally hurt certain minority segments . . .

Honey, honey . . .

Well, we made it safely through the muck to the other shore.

And STILL, though I just saved your life and ruined a brand new Graeme Black cocktail dress slogging through your sludge . . . you're still going on about . . .

"I have preconceived concerns that it will stereotype the church with the extreme examples that even offend the moderate churches."

No shit, my darling? You have prejudices?

You're still "projecting?"

"It will stereotype the church with the extreme examples?"

Unlike the CHURCH doing exactly THAT to gays and lesbians and anybody else who won't give 10% of their earnings to . . . oh, never mind.

Two words for you, DonKey.

INTER.

VENTION.

Years from now you will thank me.

Norma:
Yeesh. . . I thought I was the one being long-winded.

Sweetie - Sometimes I can be dumb as a rock - and maybe this is one of those times. Your dissection of my comment just doesn't register or seem to make sense.

I can't follow the substitution of "black" for "gay". I have no issue with any race having sex. I was addressing the sexual act, regardless of who engages in it. So just delete that section 'cause it looks like you tried to throw a hanging curve and it got away from you. Its probably lost in the bleachers.

Maybe you can explain your comment about the scriptural discussion I had with my gay co-worker. I don't recall saying he was black - I guess you are still continuing the mystifying substitutional analogy.

With regard to "sex" being a sin - that's not what I said. Sex is great! I referred to other sexual actions that are considered sins that are equally wrong but are either ignored or downplayed - Infidelity, premarital sex, porn, non-consensual sex within marriage (spousal rape), etc.

Your parting comment about the movie stereotyping churches while the churches stereotype gays pretty much re-states what I already said. The extremes of both delight in stereotyping the other - they are both wrong. And neither helps foster any understanding of each other.

But I do understand your compositional context - it is pretty hard to assemble rational thoughts at 2:43 in the morning - as you so aptly illustrated.

In the famous words of George Carlin - 'this is a bunch of Bullshit'.

The Family Council needss to worry about more imporatnt matters than whether or not Gays are foster parents or whether we might have a beer in a restaurant - or at a public function.

Clearly a case for separation of Church and State if ever there was one.

Freakin' clowns.

Charles Eddie Smith, I'll invite you to open the Holy Bible and study it,, not just read it but study.

dbi, dbi, dbi, God didn't make homosexuals. Homosexual are deviates. Their mind is what's deviated because their body's are the same as everyone else's. SO IT IS IN THEIR MIND, SEE. Mind is where God put the spirit that makes up the soul. God didn't make man for man He made WOMAN For Man any deviation from that is not right.
If you made something that didn't work like you made it what would you do to it? God made man to do right but if they don't do right then God has the right to destroy it. That is what he said to do to homosexuals when they are caught in the act, i.e., to kill them.
There was a homo following Jesus around and if you'd read the bible you might find the verse I speaking of. It is in only one book of the New Testament.
Read the first chapter of Romans to see what the Apostle Paul said about homosexuals..You had better believe that the Apostle Paul will be your judge! All twelve of the Apostles will be judging all of us.
Jesus told the twelve apostles that whatever they bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever they loose on earth it will be loosed in heaven...
Man that thinks he is smart is a fool in God's eye.

Oh, DON, norman bates is not a sweety. norm is a man thing.

Hey old wellwood,
It is IMPOSSIBLE TO SEPARATE THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE. IMPOSSIBLE..
IT IS AS IMPOSSIBLE TO SEPARATE THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE AS IT WOULD BE TO SEPARATE YOU FROM THE STATE.....
MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE IN THE STATE AND MILLIONS ARE IN THE CHURCH. YOU CAN NOT SEPARATE IT .
TRY SOMETHING ELSE; BUT KNOW THIS THAT JESUS IS BUILDING HIS CHURCH AND HELL OR THE DEVIL OR DBI WILL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT.
REPENT!

I just called Bebee's office and Selig at DHS to thank them for this wise and fair turn-around. After all the angry emails I've sent lately, it only seemed fair to reward them when they got something right. Also, positive pressure is still pressure, as Act 1 is still on the ballot.

How about calling them up with a thanks as well? Couldn't hurt, especially because you know the Cox people have been making Their voices heard...

So...there's over 24 passages in the Bible that support the institution of slavery..yet we know that it's not cool to keep people in chains and call them slaves...okay, well most of us have got that one...and we know that slaveholders and sellers used the Bbile to support their heinous trade in human beings...

there's only six passages in the Bible that can be interpreted as having to do with homosexuality...

and lest we forget...the Bible was written by men and as we can see from many who hold themselves up as holy men, that ain't necessarily the case...mankind is petty, selfish and often self-serving...do we really think that this many people were all so pure of heart that they never got anything wrong or misunderstood?

We get it that many of the things expressed in the Bible are not relevant today. We don't stone adulterers, or cut off people's hands or make men keep their beards or stop eating pork barbque or shrimp. we think nothing of wearing mixed fiber clothes and allowing milk and meat products to sit on the same plate.

Gay or straight..we are all human beings...and for the most part we are all...gay or straight, religious or not..we are good people

the attacks and villifications of some religious factions against gay people gives them pay checks and stirs the faithful to keep donating....and frankly I"M TIRED OF SUPPORTING THEIR ASSES WITH THEIR ATTACKS ON MY FAMILY

Geez chasv - are you really saying that you believe in the talking snake?

Just sayin'