Arkansas Blog

I hope that President Bush will grant Jim Guy Tucker a pardon. And Webster Hubbell too.

Couldn't have said it better myself, except to add the CONTEMPT felt towards this fascist cabal...only moderately less for the IGNORANT FK's who voted for them, particularly in '04. Maybe the next time we have someone come on the national political scene who is obviously such a mental midget (clue: repeated incoherent use of our native language), who is incurious and full of certitude (absent self-examination) as well, these nitwits will remember the disastrous presidency of Monkeyboy Shit-for-brains Bush Lite. You were repeatedly warned by those of us who had a clue, but marched inexorably on to enable what Judge Griffen has succinctly summarized.

Now, WHERE is the shame??? Not evidenced by the vote in the ever-Moronic slave states!! (with a couple of exceptions...)
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After Clinton's pardons of Marc Rich and other contemptibles, who am I (a Democrat) to complain about anybody Bush pardons?

"and have profitted from the Iraq War." and, "why so many Americans no longer trust Republicans."
By Max,

That is exactly what I have been trying to get over to everybody. Thanks Max, and, Max wrote this; Americans now realize that for this group, public office is not viewed as a way to advance the national interest, but is merely a vehicle for hoarding private gains and settling personal vendettas.
Max said this group, right, because the majority of republicans are not represented by Buch and buddies because this bush and company showed their real reason for being in politics and that was to ROB the hell out of us Americans....
In other words he was selfserving and could care less about the party.
Like rape of the american people..
Damn a gambler with a poker face like bush has. He lied looking us in the eye and he knew we knew he was lying to us.
And, Hind sight is always 20X20, ain't it?!

Marc Rich was a tax evader.

Scooter Libby was a traitor that uncovered a CIA agent, and (inadvertantly) several others in the process, jeopordizing the safety of those agents and the American people, in order to keep perpetuating lies in a march toward an unnecessary war.

There in lies the difference.

Scott Horton, an attorney in New York City, has an article entitled "Justice After Bush" in the December issue of Harper's that may be of interest to some who post to this blog. "No prior administration has been so systematically or so brazenly lawless," he writes. "Yet it is no simple matter to prosecute a former president or his senior officers." He focuses on torture as the crime about which there can be no doubt (1) that it is illegal, (2) that senior administration officials conspired to commit it, and (3) that the administration was aware of "the potential criminality" of their acts. Before getting to a practical course of action, he makes these comments:

"Open criminality is a cancer on democracy. It implicates all who know of the conduct and fail to act....Many democracies have simply collapsed as the people permitted their leaders to abandon the rule of law in the face of alleged external threats...."

"...Pursuing the Bush Administration for crimes long known to the public may amount to a kind of hypoocrisy, but it is a necessary hypocrisy. The alternative, simply doing nothing, not only ratifies torture; it ratifies the failure of the people to control the actions of their government."

As I read elsewhere this morning

"We're not at the point where people who Got It Right are empowered to make things better, but they are nonetheless important bellwethers"

That said, pardoning Scooter (and many others) could be a good thing for those of us who want both truth and justice. If pardoned, Scooter could no longer take the fifth on these matters. So the first point I would note is if Bush pardons... he's banking on the fact team O and congress will never pursue the greatest crime syndicate / spree in the history of our nation.

They knowingly lied us into war, killed over a million, handicapped millions more, rendered many millions into homelessness, turned us onto a nation of torturers... and burned through trillions of dollars while turning rule of law, world opinion and self respect on its head.

It's hard to image a more egregious crime than that. There must be accountability.. or we are doomed to repeat it.

And when Bush....no wait, first let me say it is apparent that we're all supposed to be basking in the warm glow of coming together and follow Barack Obama's lead and forgive and forget and only look towards healing and rebuilding America. We're supposed to be assembling our own team of rivals at work and church and in our neighborhoods. I generally in favor of an orgy of brotherhood and sisterhood and reconciliation, BUT

When Bush pardons every guilty Republican on the planet on his way out the door, we the sheeple should rise up and throw a wall-eyed conniption fit that un-pardons...de-pardons....and indicts the whole lot of them. But there is a problem. I'm no lawyer, so you lawyers on the blog set me straight if I'm wrong, but the way I read it, a Presidential pardon is a done deal when the signature goes on the dotted line. I can't find any example of one ever being overturned or set aside. Bush could pardon Charles Manson, Sirhan Sirhan and Osama bin Laden as he goes out the door and we'd just have to eat it.

I am the least of the law and order bunch on this thread. I was dismissed in record time from the only jury I was called to serve on because of my very forgiving liberal views. But Jesus H. Christ, setting free hundreds if not thousands of Bush criminals will only guarantee our children will have more Cheney-Bush's in their future. The Judge is right...this administration has been nothing about America and everything about their own personal greed and advancement. This administration has been the most un-American example ever to be set by those in public office. Their sole aim has been to reward and enrich the members of the exclusive Bush Club For Profit and they have accomplished it beyond their wildest imagination. And they accomplished it because we sat on our hands and did NOTHING.

We can't afford to do nothing if Bush excuses them all for their sins and you can bet he will. We indeed need to rise up and support the Obama administration as they attempt to save us from the disastrous Cheney-Bush years. I am looking forward to getting along with everyone and pulling together as a country once again. But we'll have plenty of time to hold hands and sway back and forth singing AFTER we see that those who spent 8 years breaking the law get the punishment they deserve.

If the pardons cannot be broken, I'll settle for expulsion from the country. let them have the same out that Bush gave the bin Laden family on September 13th, 2001....put the key members of the Cheney-Bush administration on airplanes and fly them out of the US...never to return. Let them spend their spoils and the rest of their lives in other countries as they see fit. Think of it as removing a cancerous kidney or something.

We cannot, after allowing them 8 years to steal and torture and kill, reward them by pardoning them and allowing them to live among us. One or the other, but not both. Are we men or are we mice?

I still remember those bastards in the "liberal" media eulogizing Tricky Dick. President Raygun came along and made selling out to terrorists patriotic. When confronted years later with evidence that the Iranians were paid by Americans not to release the hostages in order to deliver the US into the hands of the conservatives, even Carter said he didn't want to believe it. Slick Willy mistakenly believed that carrying water for the rabid right was as good as drinking the kool-aid: one blue dress later and the "liberal" media had convinced the American public that adultery was worse than treason. President Chimp has no fear of repercussions; President-Elect Constitutional Scholar has already announced he has no intention of enforcing the rule of law.

Our children know. It's all around them. They feel it in their bones. The nation of their fathers sows discontent to exploit the weak to the advantage of the powerful. After working so hard to earn the disrespect of our progeny, we should be well pleased with our reward. We live in a post civil rights America, where once children had ideals they now know the invisible hand of the free market is the only truth. Will they take their parents' path as a sell-out, struck by a car while jay-walking a la Jerry Rubin or will they remember Abbie Hoffman's "suicide" note: "It's too late. We can't win, they've gotten too powerful."?

"Every age and generation must be as free to act for itself, in all cases, as the ages and generations which preceded it. Man has no property in man, neither has any generation a property in the generations which are to follow." Thomas Paine

razorblade - No, the main difference is that Marc Rich was a fugitive criminal who fled American justice, then bought a pardon from Bill Clinton. Bush won't be selling pardons or granting them to fugitives.

The real traitor was Bill Clinton, who was selling pardons to fugitives, but turned down an offer by Sudan to extradite Osama bin Laden to the U.S. before the 9/11 attacks.

I'm with you, zatharus...I haven't gotten over what Nixon's pardon demonstrated about our country. And I don't want to hear one more 'for the good of the country' song and dance. Every time the MSM join the DC politicians in singing that same ole lame song, it means the worst crooks in the country are fixin' to get away with more carnage/stealing than any jailed criminal. It's especially galling given our lawmaker's love for throwing the book at us for dastardly stuff like smoking a joint, writing a bad check or daring to protest at one of their Imperial Conventions. Hypocritical bastards who (?) continually forget that they work for us and that they are NOT ABOVE THE LAW.

Our children definitely know the difference between an extramarital-and a based-on-lies war, Guantanamo/torture. We all know...some just don't care as long as they're getting bailouts/no-bid contracts, gays can't marry and that enough 'God this/God that' are thrown into speeches to garner full collection plates.

Not only will every one of them be pardoned...their coffers are overflowing. I'm hoping that Cheney won't be allowed back in the country after he follows Halliburton/Michael Jackson to Dubai. Monkeyboy will be too scared/stupid to leave the country once he leaves office.

Can a president pardon themselves? (Silly question...until this Constitution shredding gang.)

And Larry...DITTO!!!

Sure, Ablogger...the Rich pardon was much worse than a based-on-lies war, Guantanamo, torture, warrantless wiretapping, pissing-away New Orleans and a trillion-dollar tax giveaway. Who wants a great economy/balanced budget when it comes with a White House blow-job and a Rich pardon...me. I disagreed with much of what Bill did as governor/president; but compared to your moronic president...he's a saint and an economic genius.

Great. With all the "evidence" printed above we should prosecute Bill Clinton and George Bush.

Would that prevent another evil person from becoming president? Just so long as the prosecutions don't interfere with Sunday night football, or make anyone take off work to participate, or miss the midnight madness sales. So long as we send the same types to Congress we will get the best president money can buy. Access is cheap in terms of what it can buy.

It was Bush who stated "It doesn't matter if we catch Osama bin Laden." This was after they
had bin Laden located in a cave near the Afghan-Pakistan border and Washington pulled the colonel and his troops out of the area knowing that bin laden was still there and apprehendable.

NWA and the Third District still sends the same useless person to Congress year after year.
He was and is a rubber stamp for Bush/Cheney. Has done nothing for his district other than being a Razorback football star.

Marion Berry seems to be in office to protect farm subsidies and that's about it. At least the big bucks flow into wealthy Ark pockets.

You're about to realize our Constitution was set up to guarantee that elites get to run the nation for their own benefit. If that benefit means taking American industrial capacity out of the nation then who are we to stop Walmart executives from moving the next producer to Mexico, China, or Sri Lanka and killing 3,000 jobs.

That practice was aided and abetted by Reagan/Bush who actually paid the producers to
such moves. Al Gore mentioned it very briefly during the V-P debate of 92 and you never heard it mentioned again.

.

Ya know the Nixon pardon directly gave us the Cheney-Bush administration. When the Republicans got off scott free for Nixon's sin they thought...hell, we can do it again. And they did to the tune of making Nixon looking Jesus H. Christ himself. That's the whole point I'm making. If we let them get away with anything, they'll line up to do it again and again and again. Look at Cheney-Bush now. Ain't nothing slowed them down. So they have a low low approval rating...FK that they say... look it...we're still in the driver's seat! Whoopee!

No sir...humans only understand rewards and punishment, it's just that simple. And the only way to avoid a passel of future Cheney-Bush administrations is to kick their guilty asses this time. Ark blogger is laughable. To compare a minor crook like Mark Rich to the killing machine known as the Bush administration....I laugh at you sir! But I'm not laughing inside. I'm ashamed to my bone marrow of my government. Why teach my kids right from wrong when my leaders in government make the Mafia look sweet. We can all kiss and hug after the trials are over, but we cannot allow this rogue administration to get away with their crimes. Kick guilty ass first, Kumbaya later.

Everyone's bitching but nobody ever attacks the root problem in our nation which is "colleges!"
Colleges are turning out more brainless people the world's ever seen!
It will get worse eveyyear a new crop of dummies graduates.

Hubbel doesn't need a pardon. Bubba is covering for him.

One of the true horrors of the Bush Era/Error is the synonymity of the phrase "rule of law" with imprisonment without trial, torture as a United States policy, abrogation of most of the Constitutional guarantees of personal rights and privacy we learned in school for "National Security considerations," and anything the Bush administration does is legal because the Bush administrations says so and the futherance of Republican political power as the highest good of all.

Roger Cohen summed it up rather well today. Click

And this quote is a good summation of the result of George W. Bush's reign as President with Karl Rove and Dich Cheney's guidance.

"If this be the whole fruit of victory, we say: If the generations of mankind suffered and laid down their lives; if prophets and martyrs sang in the fire, and all the sacred tears were shed for no other end than that a race of creatures of such unexampled insipidity should succeed, to protract in saecula saeculorum their contended and inoffensive lives - why, at such a rate, better lose than win the battle, or at all events better ring down the curtain before the last act of the play, so that a business that began so importantly may be saved from so singularly flat a winding-up. . . ."
The Will to Believe, by William James.

And finally, I've been reading Alexander Hamilton, recently and his description of Aaron Burr seems terminally appropriate for the Bush/Rove/Cheney triumvirate. I have never believe Bush was that evil. but just that ignorant/stupid and too easily lead.

". . . He is sanguine enough to hope everything - daring enough to attempt everything - wicked enough to scruple nothing . . ."
Alexander Hamilton on Aaron Burr to Theodore Sedgewick 12/22/1800
Papers of Hamilton

As the OT Prophet Amos said, and who was channelled by Dr. King, "But let justice roll down like waters And righteousness like an ever-flowing stream". Let's ram some religion up the So Called Regiious Right's ass.

Have you noticed regardless of the administration, regardless of the time frame, regardless of the person in the White House, we still have scandal after scandal, the same old doing the same old, generation after generation? While it is true some administrations are more rampant with corruption in others, it's really a matter of degree rather than "did it happen" or "if it happened." And it's safe to say it won't ever change.

Is al franken, the comedian trying to pass as a senator, an example of the rule of law or how to beat the system with gimmicks?

Just because they've always been cheating, stealing and pardoning each other doesn't mean we shouldn't go for what's been promised to us...what's right: Equal justice...even for lying/cheating/warmongering presidents. Plus I'm not buying that 'it's all equal' crap...all presidents do this/that so everything's relative. Cheating on your taxes is not the same as murder...pardoning Rich is not the same as pardoning torturers/those who lied us into war. (Clinton was WRONG to pardon Rich.)