Arkansas Blog

They are NOT 'immigrants'. They are illegal aliens who have violated the law and shown contempt for the laws of our nation. Let's call a spade a spade.

Hey Strange, are they humans or not?
If they are humans they have human rights and that is what The Church teaches.

Kudos to strangelove and Any*Mouse: Both of you are correct.

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I suppose jesus just wasn't anticipating what a bad audience he would eventually draw
after Calvin and Martin Luther did their bit.

Render unto Caesar all that is Caesar's. I thought all people were the creations of one god and jesus was the savior of all people.

What's that...they are...just let them go back to Central America and starve..and while they're starving there will no abortions for them.

Are criminals human? Of course they are. You are trying to avoid the issue. They show contempt for our country because the first thing that they do when they enter our land is break the law. They don't learn our language in most cases and they don't embrace the cultures of our land. They are law breakers and they are obligated to obey the law just as legal citizens are. Being an illegal alien does not exempt them from the laws of our land. We are a nation of laws not of political correctness.

Ceasar would have enslaved them or fed them to the lions. The scriptures COMMAND us to obey the laws of the land. It does not give illegal aliens a free pass.

I tell you what elmwood. Let's treat our illegal aliens as Mexico treats illegal aliens on its southern border. Do we have a deal?

Let's see if I can grasp this advanced thinking.

The U.S. sets its standards by Mexico's standards ?

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No, everyone is bound to abide by the laws of the United States. Illegal aliens are NOT exempt. capite!!!!

The problem you have strangewood is that you and Bishop Taylor are 180 degrees apart. He has love in his heart for fellow mankind and you have hate. You are in a sad, sad place. And it will only get worse.

No, expecting all people to obey the law is not hate. Using the word 'hate' to manipulate people is juvenile. It is a pathetic attempt to control the argument when you have no substantive argument to make.

THEY ARE IMMIGRANTS WHO HAVE ENTERED THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY. TOO BAD HE DID NOT WRITE A PASTORAL LETTER FOR THE 4 MILLION A DAY ABORTED BABIES IN THIS COUNTRY.. GUESS THATS NOT IMPORTANT.

THIS MAKES ME SAD FOR THIS CHURCH COULD DO SO MUCH IN GETTING THIS COUNTRY BACK ON ITS FEET SPIRITUALLY.. THERE IS NO RESPECT FOR LIFE AT ALL.. NOT BABIES, NOT ADULTS , NOT ANYONE. THEY JUST DONT CARE. THE BLOG POSTS ON THIS SITE ARE EVIDENCE OF THIS MADNESS.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED ...HOPE NOT

Unfortunately, the Bishop is being selective about morality. People who advocate and support abortion are not excommunicated from the church. People who defy the law and abuse their neighbor's good will show contempt for the law and the Bishop would have us forget the teaching of the scripture. Then he gives a free ride to those who commit mortal sins of abortion and who no repentance.

It was difficult to wade through the 32 page manifesto . . . actually, I quit about page 19 for now when the good bishop said the only "crime" committed by an illegal when he uses a stolen Social Security Number was "wanting to work to support his family."

"Crime" in quotation marks? As if breaking the law is not a CRIME (no quotation marks)?

So, why doesn't the good bishop just pass out his Social Security Number to all of these "illegals" that want to work to support his family? Or is he afraid that this might be a crime instead of a "crime"?

And what about the financial nightmare that the use of someone else's Social Security Number creates for the real owner? How about the destroyed credit record that may take years to correct, if it can ever be corrected? How about that good Bishop - are you willing to accept that penalty and let them help themselves to your identity?

Before any of you give these illegals a pass - give them your Social Security Number and let them pass it around. After your tax return gets audited and your credit is irreparably destroyed, then see whether you thnk this is a "crime" or a crime?

And as long as putting food on the table by any means possible is justifiable, we shouldn't prosecute the illegals if they choose to employ different "crimes" to support themselves - say, prostitution, theft, burglary, selling drugs. After all, these aren't crimes, they're just "crimes".

If I were as desperate as these illegals are - I might sneak in and engage in criminal behavior, too. But, if ths is violation of a law and the law does not conflict with ascripture - its a crime (no quotes) and I must render myself liable to, and accept, Caesar's penalty.

Apparently the good Bishop doesn't believe that. Hopefully his flock will reject his sadly and grossly flawed teaching.

Frankly,I get sick and tired of the church and the liberals ignoring the fundamental problems that leads Mexicans to sneak into the US. Mexico has great wealth and resources. The problem is that the resources are controlled by a small number of very rich Mexicans. Surely we can expect Obama the "world's president" to work with the Mexican government to redistribute wealth down in Mexico to create a more equitable situation for the good people of Mexico. Wake up America, our country is insolvent. We can't afford to be the world's army. We can't afford to provide free health care for the poor. We can't afford to pay for AIDs medicines for all of Africa. We can't afford the huge new tax increases to send money to Obama's relatives in Kenya. We've got to pay down the national debt. We can't afford to pay billions of dollars to former Soviet Republics.
We need to export our union thugs down to Mexico to help the poor get decent salaries so they don't have to come here.

Strangelove said, "The scriptures COMMAND us to obey the laws of the land. It does not give illegal aliens a free pass."

Um, yes it does... Leviticus 19:33-34
"33When an alien resides with you in your land, YOU SHALL NOT OPPRESS THE ALIEN. 34The alien who resides with you shall be to you AS THE CITIZEN AMONG YOU; YOU SHALL LOVE THE ALIEN AS YOURSELF, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. "

There's your biblical mandate. Pretty cut and dry, I'd say.

Isn't it funny how these guys will yell about one part of the Bible and conveniently forget the other?

The alien who resides with you shall be to you AS THE CITIZEN AMONG YOU; YOU SHALL LOVE THE ALIEN AS YOURSELF, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: There's your biblical mandate. Pretty cut and dry, I'd say. - Posted by: Arkansas Hillbilly
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Before you cut and dry this completely, have you explored what "alien" means in that context? Is this a normal ordinary traveler from another country? Or does it refer to a lawbreaking person who has entered your country in violation of the law?

Don Keyhote "Before you cut and dry this completely, have you explored what "alien" means in that context?"

Context... now where have I heard that argument before.... let me see... I think it was... Oh yeah! That was back two threads ago on the Act 1 debate! Holy schnikies! And I was shot down on that one as let's see, Chasv called me a homosexual and a liar then. So it's ok to put part of the Bible in context when it flat out disagrees with your position, but a sin to do so when it agrees with you. I get it now...

In all seriousness, if you want to know the context of "alien", the KJV translates it as "stranger"...
According to Strong's Concordance, the hebrew word in question (Ger) means:
Definition
sojourner
a temporary inhabitant, a newcomer lacking inherited rights
of foreigners in Israel, though conceded rights


King James Word Usage - Total: 92
stranger 87, alien 1, sojourner 1, stranger + (0376) 1, stranger + (04480) 1, strangers + (0582) 1

so in this case, the word would mean a newcomer who doesn't have the same rights as someone who's been here a while. Sounds kinda like an undoccumented worker today, a temporary inhabitant who does not have the rights of a guest worker... Hmm...

I agree with you that context is everything. However, if you are going to try to use biblical arguments to back up your position, make sure it matches up with the two greatest commands... the ones that the sum of the law and prophets hang on? I think I heard those somewhere from a radical jewish rabi who was killed around AD33.

Don Keyhote "Before you cut and dry this completely, have you explored what "alien" means in that context?"

Context... now where have I heard that argument before.... let me see... I think it was... Oh yeah! That was back two threads ago on the Act 1 debate! Holy schnikies! And I was shot down on that one as let's see, Chasv called me a homosexual and a liar then. So it's ok to put part of the Bible in context when it flat out disagrees with your position, but a sin to do so when it agrees with you. I get it now...

In all seriousness, if you want to know the context of "alien", the KJV translates it as "stranger"...
According to Strong's Concordance, the hebrew word in question (Ger) means:
Definition
sojourner
a temporary inhabitant, a newcomer lacking inherited rights
of foreigners in Israel, though conceded rights


King James Word Usage - Total: 92
stranger 87, alien 1, sojourner 1, stranger + (0376) 1, stranger + (04480) 1, strangers + (0582) 1

so in this case, the word would mean a newcomer who doesn't have the same rights as someone who's been here a while. Sounds kinda like an undoccumented worker today, a temporary inhabitant who does not have the rights of a guest worker... Hmm...

I agree with you that context is everything. However, if you are going to try to use biblical arguments to back up your position, make sure it matches up with the two greatest commands... the ones that the sum of the law and prophets hang on? I think I heard those somewhere from a radical jewish rabi who was killed around AD33.

so in this case, the word would mean a newcomer who doesn't have the same rights as someone who's been here a while. Sounds kinda like an undoccumented worker today, a temporary inhabitant who does not have the rights of a guest worker. -Posted by: Arkansas Hillbilly
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AHB:
Before you chastise my question - go back and re-read your own post. If you are going to be accurate, you don't get to make up your own definition.

Your creative definition "A newcomer who doesn't have the same rights as someone who's been here a while" is just that - made up. And you go on to say this fictional definition "sounds like an undocumented worker"? I could just as easily say this "sounds like a legal traveler from outside the country."

If you are going to camp out on a definition, you have to research it beyond "what it sounds kinda like". Otherwise you are just believing what you want to believe.

Ok, lets look at it again... this time without adding

Stranger= someone whom you do not know.
Soujerner=traveler
Alien=foriegner

Sorry, I may be missing something here, but I don't see a separation between legal and illegal in the text. If you want to go by text only, then it's all aliens.

And again I ask you, where is the love in your question. Did Christ say to only welcome those who legally come into your land? I don't see that in the Gospels. Did Christ say we are only to offer our aid to those who have green cards? I don't see that one either.

The Catholic Church and I do have our differences, but in this instance I am in total agreement with the Bishop. When we are instructed at the end of service to "love one another as Christ loves us, and gave himself as a living sacrifice." No qualifiers, no limitiation, no boundaries. Christ didn't just come for you and me, but for all. We can be no different.

Jesus wept.

Another point to ponder:

In the Our Father (Lord's Prayer)
Forgive us our tresspasses As we forgive those who trespass against us.

Forgive us our tresspasses As we forgive those who trespass against us.-Posted by: Arkansas Hillbilly
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Forgive . . . as we forgive. If I break the law and illegally enter a foreign country (Mexico for example), I expect to be arrested and jailed. I expect the same for the person that does that when entering the US.

Forgiveness is not the issue - fair and just consequences for wrongful behavior is the point.

I can forgive an illegal for breaking the law to help his family - but the expectation is that the he will be repentant and accept the legal consequences for his behavior. That part seems to be missing here.