Arkansas Blog

channel 7 had a news bulletin at noon, didnt really add anything to the above except that the FBI is now on the scene and showed the suspect being taken into the jailhouse (I guess).

Lord have mercy, just last week I was talking to another AT blogger about how that shopping center used to be so nice and he told me that the Kroger there at Colony West is undergoing major renovations.

Scary, scary stuff. that used to be a nice, safe part of town. makes me wonder if we're safe anywhere any more. not just in little rock, but everywhere.

did they catch the jail escapees who were in Missouri yesterday yet? that sure was handy how they had their guard uniforms with them in their cells. And that their getaway car was there for at least 24 hours.

Max, surely you have some snarky remarks on this. I mean a doctor is shot in church and you were quick to comment, I thought these peaceful war protesters, etc., never killed any one. Only "right wing extremists" kill, right?
Heck, at least you reported it.

Yes Tina we live in a very scary world all the way around. Political ties really have nothing to do with it...though often reading the times you would think it did. You can't be too safe no matter what area you reside.

MAK,

Who said the shooter was a "peaceful war protester?"

Oh, and the AP is now reporting that one of the persons who was shot died.

Arky

MAK, I've just finished reading the stories on the DoG, KATV, KTHV, KARK & Fox16 and nowhere do they mention anything about war protesters. Now, maybe the murderer had a grudge against the military or maybe he was protesting war, but you don't know that from anything that is known now. It's just a figment of your fevered brow.

The man who killed Dr. Tiller does not represent the pro-life movement. The men who shot the army recruiters do not represent anti-war protesters. Let's be reasonable, people. Both crimes were carried out by madmen with violent vendettas.

Now THAT'S balance. You should try some every once in a while, Max.

Which war?

I don't see how the man who shot Tiller is not representative of the pro-life movement. He's been active with them for a long time, they're familiar with him, and he was an avid subscriber to an organization which believed the killing of abortion doctors was justifiable homicide. It all sounds pretty representative to me. He is one of thousands who had a "vendetta" against Tillman; he was just willing to act on it, and to be put to death by the State as a consequence.

Tiller, that is.

Whichever side of the political spectrum, it is "domestic terrorism" and not some criminal activity. You know, it is the phrase the repugs got into a snit fit about when Janet Napolitano, the Director of Homeland Security released a report on terrorism threats. Anti-abortion or anti-military, it is "domestic terrrorism".

"Anti-abortion or anti-military, it is "domestic terrrorism".

amen and amen.

"...spending two weeks in Little Rock to recruit in their home area, showing the difference that less than two months of training made in their lives..." - Fox16

Perhaps we will find that escaping the gang culture or some other history was harder than they imagined. Since one recruit has so far survived maybe we will learn why this shooter had a problem. If it is like most crime, we will find it is personal, not ideological.

>>The man who killed Dr. Tiller does not represent the pro-life movement.<<

BEHOLD , FROM A LEADER-

"Let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good.... If a Christian voted for Clinton, he sinned against God. It's that simple.... Our goal is a Christian Nation... we have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want Pluralism. We want theocracy. Theocracy means God rules. I've got a hot flash. God rules."
-Randall Terry, Head of Operation Rescue, from The News Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana, Aug 15, 1993
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Intolerance is a beautiful thing...There are people that are politically correct that want to say the cardinal sin of the hour is intolerance and I think that is a bunch of junk."

[Randall Terry, Operation Rescue]

"I thought these peaceful war protesters, etc., never killed any one."

Are you fucking kidding MAK? OK. I guess you are, in a tacky sort of way.
The "peaceful war protester" quip would still be crude, although somewhat clever, if the shooters were in a VW microbus, but, a black SUV? That sounds like a REpug ride to me. So, if you want to make this a political thing...

Such horrific news. Thoughts and prayers to the families involved.
And you're absolutely right Libertus.

Yes sir, Bush & Cheney sure as hell made us safer. Which horrible news story should we pick to show a safer America? I suspect we'll find Mr. Bledsoe is another unstable person like the one who killed Dr. Tiller. He's 24, hwo worldly and wise can he be, not that I'm excusing him for a damn thing. But a true terrorist would know killing 2 recruiters will only make things worse.

After years of phone calls from recruiters after my oldest daughter, I can't say they're my favorite bunch, not that I'd want a hair on their heads disturbed. I used to have to take Ma to get her hair done at the mall and I'd pick up what our local recruiter was telling dumbass looking yokels in the big city from smaller bergs around Fort Baptist while I stood outside the food court, smoking. I'd wind up getting pretty mad listening to the luxury vacation sounding talk coming out of the recruiter's mouth. Never once would the recruiter give the kid any info on the 2 wars we were fighting even way back then. They'd talk about duty in Hawaii, Germany, and other lovely peaceful spots. I had to bite my tongue real hard not to scream WHAT ABOUT IRAQ OR AFGHANISTAN?

But forgive me, this really isn't the thread to gripe about dishonest recruiting practices some recruiters may use. I was just wondering why this nut would go off. This is a horrible thing on top of many many other horrible things going on in our country. Has the world gone crazy? There is lots of proof that points to yes. Condolences to the families of the 2 recruiters.

How the hell did he find ammo for that .380 pistol?

>>convert to Islam<<

Not much "peaceful war protester" with that. They're into theocracy, just what our founders wanted us to avoid like a plague.

Blackberry, some 9mm will fit a .380 without problems.

". . . The man who killed Dr. Tiller does not represent the pro-life movement. . . "

Horse hockey, Liebertus and Long December! How do you expunge one of the regular pro-life pickets from being a representative of the pro-life movement?

". . . Authorities say Roeder was a member of anti-government militia groups and was a regular at pickets outside clinics. . . .

. . . Roeder's ex-wife, Lindsey Roeder, said her husband became obsessed with anti-government theories and abortion in the early 1990s and that it poisoned their marriage.

'The anti-tax stuff came first, and then it grew and grew. He became very anti-abortion,' she told the Associated Press. 'That's all he cared about is anti-abortion. The church is this. God is this. Yada, yada.'

Roeder became friendly with Shelley Shannon, who shot Tiller in 1993, wounding him in the arms, and is serving a life sentence in a Kansas prison. He subscribed to a newsletter that advocated violence to stop doctors who perform abortions. And someone using the name Scott Roeder posted ominous messages to anti-abortion websites, suggesting activists target Tiller's church. . . ."

CLIK for the full article, there are many others.

And MAK, he may be, but as others posted, the shooter's motives have not been reported, yet. BUt he has broken the law and should be charged with murder in some degree, although the circumstances reported do not conclusively indicate premeditation.

But I will say something that will cause the NRA trolls to swarm; with two incidents of fire arm murder in about twenty-four hours would these murders have occurred if handguns and military assault rifles were much more difficult to obtain or purchase? And yes, if the murder was committed by the .22 rifle, the query looses impact.

MAK, the only one being snarky about this is YOU.

Max has more class than that, and we all know it.

DBI, I have two sons, and I've been on the receiving end of a lot of phone calls from Navy recruiters, mostly, a few Army guys. If they want to join the military they are free to do so, both went to grad school instead. But you're right, they tend to leave out the part about the war(s) going on when they call. the soldiers who are dying in Iraq are overwhelmingly from poor families who were probably told about the fantastic college education the military would help them get free, right?

and MAK, if that constitutes snarkiness, Im sorry. I mean no disrespect, those are just the facts. Aint too many sons or grandsons of Bushes or Cheneys over in Iraq right now, are there? This mr bledsoe person has apparently changed his name to an Islamic name and is unhappy with the situation in iraq/afghanistan, from what I just read on the 40/29 website.

my condolences to the families of the two young soldiers as well. What a waste. Such a useless waste.

I loathe extremists of all forms, and that includes Muslim extremists.

>>But I will say something that will cause the NRA trolls to swarm; <<

Maybe you're missing something here docholliday. Most Americans, including NRA types, are
FOR gun control. If they want guns kept out of school students' lockers and cars then they are for gun control. It's just a matter of degree which happens to change from time to time.

The Americans who favor gun control the most are the ones involved with guns on a daily basis,
chiefs of police. I know two retired policemen and both are very willing for stringent gun control.

In 1998 guns killed-
* 373 people in Germany
* 151 people in Canada
* 57 people in Australia
* 19 people in Japan
* 54 people in England and Wales, and

* 11,789 people in the United States

(note: that's only murders. When the other deaths are included it makes the numbers far worse.)

"Blackberry, some 9mm will fit a .380 without problems."

a 9mm is 9x19 and a 380 is 9x17. the case length is 2mm longer that will create massive headspace problems. In-short a 9mm will not fire a .380 safely.

This tragedy fuses so many contemporary threads it defies comment, other than just the facts.

Racism. Poverty. Marginal education. Dead-end or non-existent vocational opportunities. Religious fanaticism as the solution to everything.

Easy availability of weapons. Divisive rather than inclusive politics. An unnecessary Middle East war based on lies and sustained by more lies and torture, at unprecedented economic and human devastation.

MORE political denial and division. The yearning to serve one's country. Sharing the value of military service as an honorable path toward education and success.

On and on go the Elephants in the Room lined up trunk-to-tail behind this and other tragic killings -- and more to come.

The "abstract" here is heartbreakingly real, immediate, personal and final. These young men had names and lives.

People are increasingly and violently snapping -- all over the country.

Decades of the Politics of Polarization have economically, religiously and politically split Americans into armed warring camps and drastically debased America's rankings in so many global measures -- not to mention our popularity.

Where are the Leaders who tell us the truth; give us and our representatives documented facts instead of jerry-rigged propaganda on which to base decisions; stand up to the lies of Big Business, Big Military and Big Religion; get us to read and think for ourselves instead of blindly following "authorities" without questions; and unite Americans to preserve our Constitution and Freedoms as the most diverse nation on Earth that somehow . . . maybe even Divinely and despite our worst instincts . . . "works?"

Sad times.

I said some will fit, like these,

9mm Corto
9mm Kurz
9mm Short,
will all fit a .380

I missed something...What is the problem with finding ammunition for a .380 auto?

"9mm Corto
9mm Kurz
9mm Short,
will all fit a .380"

Those are all .380s. just different names.
the different cartridge are 9x17 9x18 9x19 9x21 9x25

We have a volunteer military service. If someone joins up and they end up in a war zone they only have themselves to blame. It is not like the armed services are trying to hide the fact that we are at war. All you have to do to read the internet or watch TV.
But where is the outrage for this shooting? I read a number of post about the right wing nut who shot the Dr. in Kansas but where is the condemnation of the follower of Islam who did this? Come on people is it only wrong to kill certain people?

"The man who killed Dr. Tiller does not represent the pro-life movement."

I call BULLSHIT!!! How many attempts have been made on the lives of, say, Randall Terry, or Bill Donohue, or Fred Phelps, or Pat Robertson? The right-wingnuts kill people; the left have another toke or call their Mom (or their therapist)! "True-believer" Right-to-lifers are brain dead Morons who kill people, case closed - just like the similar wingnut ilk kill blacks, gays & (next) Hispanics - and their WIVES and girlfriends. ONE is too many!
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The right-wingnuts kill people

My wife wondered, with Bush's low popularity as president, why there had been no attempts on his life. My response was the sorts of people who try to kill presidents tend to fit into the larger subgroup of people who agree with George W. Bush.

The reason, saywhat, in my case at least, is that I am sick at heart over this killing. It's wrong in so many different ways.

It also seems a bit self-serving just now. "I'm an opponent of the War on Iraq, and I deplore this killing"? No, thanks. That would weigh on my conscience more heavily than silence. I feel a little wrong even replying to you.

If you want the a-pox-on-fundamentalists-of-all-flavors spiel (which I was aiming at an unusual target at church yesterday), you can have it in a day or two, but not just now.

You know saywhat, I'm not crazy about this war either. But I will say this, I support Americas youth. If they are on foreign soil fighting on our behalf, I support that. To be standing in front of an Army recruiting station and to be shot down because of your uniform is wrong. Rodney Parham is the wrong war zone.

Last night after I had grilled, fed everyone and retired to my easy chair at 9:30, I heard a commotion going on in the kitchen. When I went in to calm the dogs I discovered one of my sons best friends. Home for a couple days from Iraq. Little Rock Central High Color guard Class of 2007. Off soon to Afghanistan.

One difference I notice between the two of you I notice, he has big balls and you have an Internet connection and peanuts.

"...But forgive me, this really isn't the thread to gripe about dishonest recruiting practices some recruiters may use."- Deathbyinches.

But you went ahead and did it anyway. Just like you went ahead and made a despicable comment about the "chickens coming home to roost" when Democratic Party Chariman Bill Gwatney was tragically murdered last year. For some some reason, only known by yourself, you seem to enjoy taking horrible tragedies such as these as a sick opportunity to backhandedly smear the victims. Anyone can tell by your writing skills that you are a well educated person, and I guess that what makes your comments even sadder. I wish I had your skill with prose to come up with a clever name for you, but "pathetic punk" is the most fitting for the occasion. Apologizies to everyone else on the blog for this personal post, but these men deserve better. Please keep them, their families, and all of our men and women in uniform in your prayers. I do that now as I sign off. Goodnight all and let's all hope, work, and pray for a better tomorrow.

Such a sad two days.
Religion and extremism will be the death of us all.

NaturalStater, I think we can all agree with that. Im with mr. arkansawyer - i support the soldier but not the war.

night, y'all.

Oops. I didnt mean that at all. I just can't see.

Natural Stater, when I said we could all agree with your comments, I only meant the last part -- ""Please keep them, their families, and all of our men and women in uniform in your prayers. I do that now as I sign off. Goodnight all and let's all hope, work, and pray for a better tomorrow."""

I didnt notice the rude comments you made to DBI at the top of your post. I certainly do NOT agree with you on that, or anything else, except that we should all keep all our men & somen in uniform in our prayers.

DBI isnt one to take cheap shots, and you know it. The only apology due here, in my humble opinion, is the apology that YOU owe DBI. Why not take a little poll here and see how many people would support your personal attack on DBI??? other than you.......I'd say slim pickins there.

Fry em, Dano!

Thanks tina for being able to read and reason well, something NaturalStater is unable to do. He, though perhaps well meaning, is the problem with the US today. Not willing to think deeply, he's always the fan of the knee-jerk reaction. Not studying the problem but being more than willing to cover his car with yellow magnetic ribbons will not help anyone. It takes more than screaming to fix what ails us.

Someone or something drove this crazy man to shoot the 2 recruiters today. Someone or something drove the crazy man to kill Gwatney. To this day we don't know those answers, but you can bet neither of these crimes happened by accident. Dr. Tiller wasn't gunned down in church by accident. Jim David Adkisson kicked open the doors of the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church and blasted away, leaving 2 people dead at the feet of a children's church choir. That was no accident.

In my opinion with a good number of facts to back it up, all these people listed above were killed out of hatred fanned by others now busy looking the other way and whistling a happy tune. O' Reilly called Dr. Tiller, Tiller the Baby Killer 28 times on his Fox program in the last 4 years. Dr. Tiller's clinic was bombed, later he was shot in both arms, now they've managed to kill him. I guess if you kill all the doctor performing abortions...that is one way to stop abortion, but why not kill all fertile women?

Jim David Adkisson left a note after reading a book bashing liberals, 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America, the note included this paragraph, one of many that scares me to death:

"I'd like to encourage other like minded people to do what I've done. If life aint worth living anymore don't just Kill yourself, do something for your country before you go. Go Kill Liberals." Sounds way too 72 virgin-y to me.

This is the kind of hate spewed on American TV and Radio 24 hours per day now. Was Gwatney's killer listening to hate radio as he drove towards Democratic headquarters that day? We'll never know...but that is what I meant when I said "the chickens are coming home to roost." Read the damn papers, senseless killings are on the rise. What will today's killer at the recruiting office say drove him to do what he did?

We must know these things if we ever hope to stop crazy people from killing out of rage. "These men" deserve to have the case solved, and anything to prevent this from happening again must be used. Clearly no one is safe....no one.....as long as hate radio and TV blares across the nation, as long as an endless line of books are published causing unstable people as willing to meet their Jesus as extremist Muslims are willing to meet Allah, to go out and kill innocent people. Who'll be next....you....me...our children? We're currently fighting 3 wars, Afghanistan, Iraq, and in the USA. And it appears we're losing all 3. Getting to the heart of the problem beats the hell out of nice words and prayers for people blown away by crazed monsters.

Big "L,"

I have friends who are retired police officers also. You are correct, they are adamantly opposed to the carry permits and loosening control on handguns and assault weapons.

However, Big "L," they are not members of the NRA.

Whom, do you think are paying for the lobbying that has been successful in removing the assault weapon ban, promoted the increased issuance of carry permits and increased purchase of handguns. It ain't the PBA (Police Benevolent Associations).

One last retort, you missed my inference. I said ". . . NRA trolls . . . " indicating the reactionary nihilistic right-wingnuts we have lowering the quality of discussion on the blog by quoting and misquoting right-wing blog diatribes and Karl Roves talkers for the unthinking. However, the number of thinking and responsible NRA members are shrinking rapidly as they fail to disassociate themselves with the NRA trolls who claim the Second amendment for license for total deregulation.

The same ones that are moaning about the federal hounding of a Russellville doctor, who according to federal prosecutors had 106 (registered) automatic machine guns and four unregisterd fully automatic machine guns in his home, two grenade launchers and a black bag buried underground with 98 40mm high explosive, M406 shells, designed to be fired from a M203 grenade launcher.

I don't buy your argument that the NRA is supporting gun control, Big "L." The are promoting assault weapon and handgun proliferation and contributing greatly to the disparate casualty levels your post listed.

Will the GI's who were shot on Rodney Parham be eligible to be awarded the purple heart & other combat decorations?

The only beneficiary of this is the NRA who are LTAO all the way to the bank.

Most people in the pro-life movement don't agree with Operation Rescue's tactics. This organization is the one that Tiller's killer identified with. For a real representation of the pro-life movement as a whole, I suggest National Right to Life.

But I agree that BOTH situations -- Tiller's and these army recruiters -- were carried out by domestic terrorists. It's all very sad.

DBI, this "Hate Radio" unfortunately makes money for the broadcasters that allow the Limbaughs, Hannitys, Savages, Medveds, Ingrams, and Becks to spew out. Blame Congress (and their willing co-horts) for the 1996 Communications Act for allowing this cancer to take over talk radio. Clear Channel, News Corp (Fox News parent company), Citadel/kaRn, American Family Radio all have benefited financially from these sorts of broadcasts.

Wonder why AFR has so many of their talk shows about the "Gay Agenda"?---its a money maker and it rakes in the donations. Donold Wildman long ago realized that "the queers" were the next boogie man in the Bible Belt. One cannot dodge the 88.1-91.9 portion of the FM dial in Dixie without hearing one of Wildmon's full power repeaters or translators.

Michael Savage (Wiener) would be just another fringe nut buying time on "Christian" shortwave broadcasters if not for being syndicated on some mainstream stations (thankfully not in Little Rock any longer).

But where is so-called liberal talk radio? Its relegated to a few podcasts, Satellite Radio (SIRIUS/xm), and perhaps some community radio stations off the beaten path. Air America Radio was doomed partly for being relegated to the scraps of the AM dial--that is when Air America wasn't self-destructing, mismanaging, and hiring dubious hosts such as Jerry Springer. The idea was noble, but the programming must have a way of attracting listeners and advertisers. Memphis' former AAR station (on 680AM) had a good daytime signal, but advertisers were weary of openly advertising on a station with mostly liberal programming. Little Rock's short-lived AAR (KDXE 1380) station was on a puny AM signal that couldn't be heard in much of Little Rock after dark and many shows were preempted for Travelers Baseball.

I don't see things getting any better, the economy is in the toilet and radio stations will suffer the fruits of their 1990's consolidation binge--fewer stations, decreased listener-ship. Those stations that remain with political talk radio will regretfully tap further into the conservative "anger" with more and more hate radio.

Terrorism nowadays is getting unpredictable. Police and higher authorities should prepare more ways to prevent terrorism on a higher level. With this incident, I think it would be a big lesson to a lot of people.

Terrorism nowadays is getting unpredictable. Police and higher authorities should prepare more ways to prevent terrorism on a higher level. With this incident, I think it would be a big lesson to a lot of people.

Were any of these shooters on antidepressants or other prescription drugs like Bill Gwatney's killer?
I suspect that plays a role in some of these murders.