Arkansas Blog

It's just like getting banned from freerepublic.com for asking questions. The conservative idea of free speech means they get to talk and everyone else has to shut up.

While there is something to be said for encouraging the nutters to fly their freak flag high, the downside is that there may be those attending these meetings who are there to learn more about the proposed changes to health care. As repulsed as they may be by the childish and boorish manners displayed by the provocateurs, every time these idiots succeed at drowning out discussion, those folks who are there with an open mind are the ultimate losers. I read the account of the Indiana meeting yesterday and the groundrules used there certainly should be be imitated elsewhere. The floor should be open to all who want to speak - even dissenters - but it's not their meeting exclusively, and if they can't display the civility required to allow others to speak and be heard as well, they need to be removed. I think most of this could be solved with security personnel at the meetings and a sign or announcement that all are welcome to speak when they have the floor but those who attempt to prevent others from being heard have forfeited their right to speak and will be removed.

All that having been said, I can't help but notice that many of those who are showing up and causing a scene, at least in the footage I've watched, are of an age where they're already receiving "socialist" government healthcare. They need to be called out on the hypocrisy - "socialist healthcare for me, but not for thee." Apparently government-funded healthcare suits them just fine - they just want to make sure no one else gets it.

It also wouldn't hurt to point out that there was another group familiar to students of history who used these tactics - the Nazi Brownshirts. There - I've gone and done it - the thread is Godwinned in only two comments. Though in this case, it's accurate.

The far-left acts the same way.

Anyway, it seems Snyder and Ross have picked the perfect place to hide from any real criticism.

Libertus - there are indeed some on the far left who "act the same way" - go back and look at footage of how they are handled. At Bush rallies, when any dissenter managed to slip through the strigent loyalty screening and spoke up, they were forcibly removed - often roughly - and arrested.

"So and so did it too" is the excuse of a five-year-old-child, though it's not particularly surprising to hear it coming from people who encourage adults to behave like five year olds.

I actually only said that to bring some balance. I don't condone childish behavior or excuse it--no matter where it comes from. Regardless of where we fall politically, I think it's important that we encourage people to remain respectful.

An old tactic is to send out people beyond the fringe to turn oppinion against the side that the beyond the fringe pretend to be for.

I remember a cartoon where a politician hired a bunch of dirty hippie types to protest against himself.

Post examples of where the left has acted like a mob. In the last administration, they were shuttled into Free Speech Zones or escorted out of events.

You mean when this leftist protester spit on a microphone? Very respectful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVQwXJfH9VM&feature=PlayList&p=11D052AA19571531&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=38

Teleplayer,

Don't set yourself up for an easy smash by your opponent.

P.E.T.A. and Greenpeace are considered far left and one of their whole strategies is to go off the deepend to get attention.

The students that burned the R.O.T.C. building at Kent State to protext the Viet Nam War were not a rightwing mob. They were leftwing.

This is just off top of my head.

Hmmmmm, I wonder if I have time today to go into town for that meeting.
I think have these discussions in places full of freaking sick kids is brilliant.
Who, in their right mind, would act boorish and rude at a Children's Hospital?

Hmmm, short notice . . . Maybe it'll keep some of the boors at bay, but it'll work that way for the rest of us too. That's one session I would have liked to attend.

Photo
Click on Cato

Interesting to note that there was no advance notice regarding this meeting at Children's and its at 2pm today. Apparently not very convenient for the working folks to go. But I bet the unions will be out in full force and the likes of ACORN will all be there as well.

Cato, I'm ROFLMAO... The stupid morons (literally) who are in these movements don't have enough brain power between them to turn on a flashlight. If they ever generate a lucid thought, it will be such an event that the entire world will stop spinning on its axis.

Cato, can you walk me through how I can go about posting that photo (and others like it) to my Facebook account?

The far-left acts the same way.

Anyway, it seems Snyder and Ross have picked the perfect place to hide from any real criticism.

Posted by: Libertus

Where and when does "the far left act the same way"?

I know of no organization in the Left, funded by billionaires and insurance / pharma money with paid political operatives designed to disrupt public events in order to win more pay via millions of new government subsidized customers for insurance and pharma companies.... more money while denying millions of people care... at the highest prices in the world.

Couldn't agree more with your assessment of Ross and Snyder.

"All that having been said, I can't help but notice that many of those who are showing up and causing a scene, at least in the footage I've watched, are of an age where they're already receiving "socialist" government healthcare. They need to be called out on the hypocrisy - "socialist healthcare for me, but not for thee." Apparently government-funded healthcare suits them just fine - they just want to make sure no one else gets it."

Maybe it's because they're going to be set adrift on the ice flow. I'm just sayin.....................

I was wrong about my prediction that Arkansas reps would hide and never attend a public meeting again. Ross & Snyder got right up in the saddle...good for them. I doubt the protesters will let the fact that they're meeting at Children's Hospital stand in their way. Their paychecks from Big Health will require them to act out according to plan.

I hope their protests won't drown out what Snyder & Ross have to say because I'm very interested in hearing what they have to say. I want to hear how they can defend not supporting real health care reform. This subject is life or death at my house. We are paying full attention to everything. I hope IDs will be recorded of those attending these public meetings. My only interest is to see if those protesting are even from Arkansas....I'll have my doubts until proven wrong.

If they are from Arkansas, they will be paid by the likes of Tim Griffin, Dick Armey, and so on. Unless folks like Rush Limbaugh or O'rally can get them to sabotage America for free.

No Citizen, Kent State wasn't a Right or Left Wing. It was just a bunch of young people with no other recourse. These Tea Baggers or what ever they are, have a recourse. They are much like the bunch the Kent Staters were up against, a movement that don't want to hear your side, and don't want anyone else to hear your side. And if I remember there was a few wings shot off at Kent State.

I know HarryD....why do they always have these meetings when only those retired gov't program hating medicare recipients can attend?
It IS a conspiracy against the working folks, you know like union members who WORK at JOBS to support their families....luckily these day time hours seem to really work well for teabaggers.
Wonder why that is.
I can't go because I'm waiting now for a phone back from my Dr. regarding the lack of results on my parathyroid imaging test from Monday and now have a call in to one of my inventory consigners.
Maybe they will call back soon and I can head out.
(sucks being sick when self-employed, thank god we have insurance though hubbys job)

wow, I just saw the craziest cap & trade commercial on CNN.
OMGZ!!!! Socialist Obama BILL !!!!!!!!!!!
nuts.

And I think the best way to handle this is everyone has to show they are a citizen of that State to attend the local town meetings.

Americonio - The state for senators, the district for congressmen. Attendance should be limited to the constituents of the speaker(s), much in the same way emails are limited by most Congress people. This doesn't shut anyone out or limit anyone's 'free speech'. If they've got something to say...they can say it to THEIR OWN representative.

More disrespectful, unruly, and free-speech-killing leftists:

1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuNXmy0e5fc&feature=player_embedded

2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaTkGgE-hXA&feature=player_embedded

3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM2tNL_roBY&feature=player_embedded

4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRrHZGTdhKw&feature=player_embedded

5) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrRxFoBSPng&feature=player_embedded

6) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmMpPS8IRT0&feature=player_embedded

Libertus.
Did that argument work when you were a little kid?
Because "they do it too" never worked with my mom.

Just thought I had a brite spot there for a moment H.H. Women. I bet they find a bunch of these teabaggers from the Health Management's home town is all I'm saying.

Daughter of Libertus at clicky.

As I said above, if you do recall, I never used "they did it too" as an excuse. I said it to expose the misconception that there isn't angry, disrespectual, unruly, law-breaking, free-speech-killing mobs on the Left. Please see the videos I linked to above for a visual example.

And just so no one pokes at me, I'll fix my typo myself: "disrespectful"

What? Greenpeace and PETA show up with the sole intention of not letting anyone ask questions of our elected representatives?

Greenpeace and PETA are making death threats to our President?

Greenpeace and PETA advocate that states withdraw from the union?

Greenpeace and PETA advocate that invading and occupying other countries is the best way to make them allies?

Greenpeace and PETA have their own news channel that devotes itself to tearing down the President and positioning half the country as communist traitors?

Greenpeace and PETA are shooting people in churches for having the wrong ideas?

Greenpeace and PETA are killing students for protesting, ala' Kent State?

Greenpeace and PETA want us to be officially governed by their interpretation of the BIble?

Greenpeace and PETA are wiretapping American citizens without warrants?

Greenpeace and PETA fire federal attorneys in order to fill those spots with only those who belong to their political party?

Greenpeace and PETA believe that 9 out of the 10 Bill of Rights are secondary to the 2nd amendment?

You know, sometimes, it's just best to let someone bury themselves.

I disagree with limiting public participation to native Arkansans or just constituents from within a district.

These health care decisions will effect everyone. It's way past time a tiny portion of American (Arkansas) idiots keep screwing the rest of us without being called out.

Take all outside campaign contributions out of the mix first... Public campaign finance only...try that for a while... and then, maybe then.. limiting so called outside participation might have credence.

AR is one percent of the US population... yet our critters, especially in the current makeup of both the Senate and House, have far more influence than they should.

I think it would be interesting to scan the crowds from one town hall to the next and see how many of the same faces show up. Also need to note if there are any buses parked in the area of the event.
Every member of Congress should know to expect something like this at their local events and if our representatives can't or won't put a stop to the disruptions these people are intent on causing, then the only other way to stop this crap is to publicly expose it for what it's really all about.

Oh...and excellent points,Teleplayer.

I don't know about Greenpeace, but I do know PETA directly funds extremist (yes, even more extreme than PETA) animal rights organizations that DO bomb animal testing centers, make death threats to researchers, CEOs, etc.

I do know that PETA "activists" behave just as badly as the teabaggers, and in some cases, probably more so. Handing out graphic flyers depicting animals being tortured and killed to children on their way to / from school and telling those children that their parents are "murderers" (yes, it happened) is beyond poor taste and poor judgement.

I do know that PETA is far nuttier than any teabagger could ever dream to be.

PETA was a bad example for the point you were trying to make.

Eureka - While I usually agree with you on most issues, I have to take exception here. Every American is represented by a congressman and two senators. These people have been 'hired' to represent the folks of their distict and state, and they need to have a clear understanding of what their constiuents want so that they may vote accordingly. To allow people from other districts, and especially other states, to come in for the sole purpose of disrupting and derailing a representative's opportunity to learn from and interact with their own constiuents should not be allowed. This is especially true when the mobs (and they are mobs) are using threats and intimidation, burning effigies and otherwise trying to shut down the public discourse. I'm all for free speech, but that's not what these people are about.

I happily consider myself to be far-left. I read scores of far-left blogs and work with scores of far-left organizations. I have never heard mention of PETA or promotion of PETA tactics in any of those arenas. Never, not once... not even behind the scenes. SO if it happens, it is very very rare.

And I don't think PETA has anything to do with health care... anymore than Greenpeace or Kent State does.

Only the brownshirt teabaggers are hanging life sized depictions of D congressman in effigy over the health care debate right now. Only the brownshirt teabaggers are being financed by billionaires and pharma / insurance companies to lie and obfuscate.

Eureka - Now there you go. I'm back in agreement with you.
Can you again feel the love?

Correct ES, and the primary organizer group is "Freedom Works," which is DICK Armey's lobbying (FOR the health "care" industry) company, at clicky...

>>I have to take exception here. Every American is represented by a congressman and two senators. These people have been 'hired' to represent the folks of their distict and state, and they need to have a clear understanding of what their constiuents want so that they may vote accordingly.<<

Nice. All we need is for our Representatives and Senators to agree. He who hires must pay. So who pays them the most? Reps must face reelection every two years. This is a joke. It should be no more than 4 years though I'm sure some will dispute.

Meanwhile, AuH20 is going back up just as Cheney's investments (2005) indicated it would. Meanwhile, who 'SENT" your Senator cause I can assure the election thingie was a fraud of carefully chosen candidates. <<

Obviously, that's not what these people are about, but we should be very careful about limiting citizens ability to lobby.. in a quick reaction to the paid brownshirts.

Besides, as I mentioned.. it's the money in politics which is the problem first and foremost.. not these small paid thugs... who wouldn't exist as an "organization" without big money backers. I just think there are better ways to end this crap.. while honoring individual liberty.

This is corporate personhood at it's worst. We need to seriously restrict corporate/ billionaire power run amok more than limiting everyone's liberty.

If I want to drive up to Springfield and protest or question funding needless wars in front of Senator McCaskill.. I should not have my ID checked and be treated as an alien because I am from out of state. After all, I helped get her into her seat.

Right Larry! And David H. Koch's Americans for Prosperity

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/04/how-come-cbs-journalists-cant-recognize-paid-lobbyists-when-they-see-them/

i dont know why ross is at the children hospital he is gonna vote for the health bill and it is gonna make the tax payers pay for abortions so why is he with the kids at the hospital if he is gonn support sbortion

I'm not defending the teabaggers or their "movement"...these people have either been in a coma for the last 8 years, or this is the most extraordinary case of mass amnesia on the planet.

And I'm not suggesting that "because they do it" justifies a similar course of action, either.

However, for the left or liberals to try and take the moral high ground and pretend that left wing groups and movements don't resort to the same tactics is simply absurd. And just as absurd is to try and paint all conservatives or conservative movements with the same brush as the teabaggers. Yes, they are batshit crazy, but that doesn't mean that they are representative of a larger group of people.

Go to an abortion rally, or a gay rights rally or any political rally and you will see TWO groups of people shouting at / over each other (or worse); neither side interested in the least in what the other side has to say, or respecting what the other side has to say. Healthcare, environment, whatever...doesn't matter. "Discussion" and "debate" in this country today has devolved into shouting down the other guy until the other guy finally shuts up...and then you win.

Back to PETA...I would suggest reading something other than far-left blogs our outlets from time to time. I couldn't find the original article about the incident I mentioned, but there is this story about a similar incident happening at a performance of The Nutcracker, as well as other classy PETA stunts : http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/headline/2537

"he is gonna vote for the health bill and it is gonna make the tax payers pay for abortions"

Ideas like that lead me to believe that we, as a country, need MORE abortions...and that abortion should be legal up until the 72nd trimester.

Heck...if a Rep/Sen/etc can't handle a bunch of protesters they need to look for different jobs. Sure, it's unproductive to purposely disrupt meetings just for the sake of disruption. But such stuff comes with the job description. Plus I believe in letting the nuttiest/most hate-filled folks have their turn at the microphone. It's the best way to reveal the true message behind the public display. Many of these protesters didn't want a chance to voice their concerns as much as they wanted to disrupt the event for everyone. Sadly, that's today's typical Republican. The 'No' Party.

Watching right wingers play the 'grassroots' thing is funny...like a fish out of water. Bless their delusional hearts.

I really know next to nothing about PETA.. Would somebody tell me what makes them a LEFT organization?

Is it because they like animals?

Are y'all saying the Right hates animals as much as they hate facts, people, troops, brown folk, sex, love, rock and roll and bluegrass?

Once again, PETA is not advocating the breakup of the union, assassination of the president or killing liberals for their beliefs.

There's a large difference between being radical for animal rights and being radical about the overthrow of the US government or at the very least murder of anyone opposing them.

But I guess the teabaggers see those as just about the same thing, don't they?

Well, yes, eLwood. I guess I was thinking about how it's supposed to work. I'm usually pretty well centered in the reality based community, but guess I was just harkening back to what I learned in civics class. Too bad they don't teach civics anymore.

Seems to me that we're just going in circles here, people. All I was trying to say is that I don't feel that I have a 'right' to go into another state or congressional district for the sole purpose of causing a disruption or to intimidate those who have a legitimate reason to be there to address their own representatives. It's a whole different thing, Eureka, if you wanted to go to an event for Sen. McCaskill because I assume you would not be there to get in the way of another's ability to communicate with her as their representative for Missouri.

These teabaggers are not there for the purpose of furthering the discussion. They are simply the unpaid shills for the corporate masters. They are the useful idiots. Perhaps it does go too far to stop them at the door and ask for an i.d. But there should be no hesitation to throw these people out of a meeting if they are not a resident or a constiuent of the speaker and can't behave like grownups to give others a chance to speak to the person who is supposed to be 'representing' them in Washington.

And as far as the radical right representing all conservatives, conservatives seem to be happy to embrace them. You yourself are passionately excusing them by claiming the other side does it, too.

All good conservatives mouth the party line - and right now the party line is to hate any and all things Democratic.

That slippery slope leads, and is leading, to treason.

If someone cannot live under the constitution and the legitimately elected government of the US, they need to leave -- not seek to overthrow it as if this were some banana republic where whomever has the largest army of revolutionaries gets to rule.

Extremism, regardless of the issue, is still extremism...and I don't see much of a difference. The issues may be different, but the methods are the same. Handing out buckets of blood and bones to make your point about animal rights is no better or worse than hanging someone in effigy. And I'm not a teabagger...I'm a rational person.

I'm not passionately excusing anything...in fact I believe I flat out said the actions of one group don't excuse the same actions by the opposing group. A statement was made to the effect that only teabaggers and conservatives or conservative movements operate in the extreme...and that simply isn't true.

As for your last paragraph of your last statement: Yeah, where would we all be if people went around overthrowing governments that they didn't agree with?

(That's a rhetorical question, slathered in hot-buttered sarcasm and irony.)