Arkansas Blog

Btw, if you're wondering how all these town hall meetings are getting disrupted,
"it's actually the product of closed loop,outrage generating eco system" or what Daily calls the "Crank Cycle."

Well, let John Daily show you how it works. clickit.

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"See, I could be walking across the Potomac and the press would report "Jesse Jackson can't swim."
Jesse Jackson SNL, 1984

The tea-baggers cannot stand it when anyone dares to disagree with them.

We are so lucky / blessed they do not have power, for it would not be long until free speech would be illegal, we'd have a state religion, and all intellectuals would be on their way to Alaska.

You say "all intellectuals would be on their way to Alaska" like it would be a bad thing.

People who pretend to know what's best for me better than I, well..I have no use for them and I think they would serve a more noble purpose as food for polar bears.

So, being in a hospital full of sick kids and worried parents, many who may not have any or inadequate health insurance, some who may be wonder how they will pay for their child's care was not enough to shame the teabaggers?
Shame on them.

Wonder if anyone is yelling "Medicare for All"......

"People who pretend to know what's best for me better than I, well..I have no use for them" - the_floyd

Yeah, as if overturning Roe, forcing a specific view of Jesus down peoples throats, and banning books from the library isn't knowing what best for me is, which is the social view all the far right takes. As long as it's not taking money from some rich dudes, it's okay if you tell me what to do.

>People who pretend to know what's best for me better than I, well..I have no use for them and I think they would serve a more noble purpose as food for polar bears.<< ignorant_floyd

Great! next time you seek a doctor's opinion about that large black spot on your arm instead just fuck it and go visit the polar bears. That doctor may only be one who can "pretend" to know what's best for you.

I'm presently listen-watching a Senate hearing on C-span about child vaccinations chaired by
Senator Hartman. There'a few on the panel who think NO Child should be vaccinated in
gubbermint programs.

Bring on the polio, mumps, measles, diphtheria, typhoid.

I suppose you have no use for traffic laws which are forced upon you by the state? Safety standards for food? For bridges? For house wiring? Those damn people who think they know better than me!!

What a stupid person.

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"You say "all intellectuals would be on their way to Alaska" like it would be a bad thing."

"When they came for the gypsies, I did not speak, for I am not a gypsy.

When they came for the Jews, I did not speak, because I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for the Catholics, I did not speak, for I am not a Catholic.

And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak."

- On the Wall at the Holocaust Museum in Washington

I work as an RN at Children's. If it were not for government run healthcare programs such as Medicaid/Medicare, many of our children would die: that is not being dramatic, that is just the harsh truth. Also, Medicaid/Medicare is very stringent on what they will or won't pay for. Every week it seems we get memos on making sure we are accurately documenting our interventions in our nurse's notes so that we get paid for what we do.

I think if President Obama wanted to scare the living daylights out of the Tea Baggers and Socialized Medicine protesters, all he would have to do is say that tomorrow the government run and taxpayer funded Medicaid/Medicare programs will be abolished and that they will now have to find coverage with a private insurance provider.

This go-round with healthcare reform is much different than when Hillary and Bill tried it in the early 1990's.

anon and elwood:

You seem to be confusing an "educated" person with a so-called "intellectual".

An "intellectual" presumes to know better how everyone else should live, think, etc. An educated person simply knows better than to presume that. And it's obvious that neither of you are either of those.

Some of us "adults" are fully capable of deciding what is best for ourselves; what to eat, what to drink, what to read, what music to listen to, what movies to watch, whether or not to wear our seatbelts...and we've been able to make those decisions for years without anyone telling us what they think the "right" choice or decision should be...and it seems to work out, ok.

I suggest you try it.

While I was in outside sales for several years I learned there's two things you do not overcome-
poverty and ignorance. _floyd just made the case again.

Now then, _floyd, what about those "intellectuals" who impose safety standards for
house wiring
bridge safety
food safety (not to be confused with choices of food)
traffic rules

Send them to the polar bears?

Wait! What is an "intellectual" _floyd?
.

"I think if President Obama wanted to scare the living daylights out of the Tea Baggers and Socialized Medicine protesters, all he would have to do is say that tomorrow the government run and taxpayer funded Medicaid/Medicare programs will be abolished and that they will now have to find coverage with a private insurance provider."

The old woman who was up in arms about socialized medicine but "Don't mess with my Medicare" should be #1 on the list. I bet she couldn't find health care for a year with her entire net worth allocated to just that, given how private insurance works. People forget: private insurance is out to take your money and give you less back in return: that's how they make money, but that requires thinking about how businesses work, which people like the_floyd can't quite do because they are too busy listening to Glenn Beck.

My dearest Mr. Floyd: Would you abolish the FDA, the USDA, the FAA, the Arkansas Securities Department? I hope you'll answer. I really want to know your thinking. Is all government oversight or regulation bad?

Mr. Floyd: Can you determine a capable physician from an incapable doctor? Should we abandon the licensing of nurses, architects, engineers? Would you want to work in an office designed by architects and engineers that hadn't been vetted? Would you fly with a pilot who isn't licensed? How far are you willing to go to trust what you seem to think are your superior instincts?

elwood:

If you're making an argument for legislators being "intellectuals" (in regards to traffic laws, food regulations, etc.) I suggest you take a long, hard look at those legislators and your definition of an intellectual.

And don't confuse public safety and standards with personal life choices. House wiring and bridge engineering as personal life choices? Really? You honestly are trying to make that argument and don't see the difference there?

*****Secure Arkansas, the anti-immigration group, was on hand.*****

OH NOOOOO! Please Congressman, keep my health care the most expensive in the world! Make 52 million people go without care at all...and make millions more with insurance go bankrupt!

Give the insurance companies a few million more customers... don't let the government negotiate better prescription prices.

Whatever it takes to make sure visitors or brown citizens suffer!

We can't care for each other...a Mexican might get a tumor removed too!

Mr. Floyd: Is all government regulation bad? If not, which is acceptable, by your lights? But then, we'd be relying on your judgment, wouldn't we? And just why should we rely on your judgment? What is so very special about you?

bbbbbbbbbbbb

(The above is my cat's entry as she stepped in front of the screen and on the laptop keyboard. I have no idea who it was addressed to but hope it doesn't offend anyone.)

Such is the nature of disruption. It distracts from the topic rather than adding anything of value.

I find it disturbing that people would write off intellectuals since history has shown us that two of the world's worst and most murderous tyrannies, Hitler's Nazism and Stalin's Communism, liquidated intellectuals in their first waves of terror and slaughter.

It's not a sane path to follow.

Max, why don't you do the honest thing and also highlight leftist mobs?

My dearest Mr. Floyd: I await your answer. I await a well-argued, cogent, intelligent answer. Please don't disappoint.

Wait, wait, allow me:

1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuNXmy0e5fc&feature=player_embedded

2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaTkGgE-hXA&feature=player_embedded

3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM2tNL_roBY&feature=player_embedded

4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRrHZGTdhKw&feature=player_embedded

5) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrRxFoBSPng&feature=player_embedded

6) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmMpPS8IRT0&feature=player_embedded

Oh! And this one, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVQwXJfH9VM&feature=PlayList&p=11D052AA19571531&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=38

My dear Mr. Floyd: Social workers and the Department of Human Services -- why in heaven's name would we need those pesky know-it-alls preventing parents from disciplining their children as they see fit? Perhaps the next time a neighbor sees someone punching his child in the face, that neighbor can just call you, because you possess special insight. That would be all right, wouldn't it? You wouldn't mind performing that little public service, would you? Have you ever been beaten with a belt, Mr. Floyd? Silly me! Perhaps you enjoy that sort of thing. Children tend not to. Ah, yes. If the government would just get out of our business, all would be well, wouldn't it, my dear Mr. Floyd?

Mainstream and "liberal" Dems dropped out or sold out very early in the health care debate. They surrendered to "Don't embarrass OBAMA Dem. Leadership and now, if the worse than worthless "Health Insurance Reform" is passed or defeated, the Medical Insurance Industry wins. There is a reason why the majority of the $1.4 million/day bribes are going to Dems. and it has resulted in the Dem/Obama "Health Insurance Reform".

It is unfortunate that the opposition to this worthless legislation has been surrendered to the wing-nut wackos. The Dem. Progressive Caucus, the Congressional Black Caucus and the Hispanic Caucus are making noises about voting against this mess but Pelosi has ridiculed their behavior and they will fall in line. Just like they caved in and voted to expand Mr. Obama's Afghan war. Another $83 million for three months expanded war and the Congress is trying to find $100 million/year for health care, Jeebus.

Max and others in Little Rock,

Please report back after the local news cycle and tell the blog HOW this was covered. There's more to this story than outrage about the behavior of the teabaggers (and I'm plenty outraged.) I hope, hope that reporters on hand found out and will report the organization that set up this planned disruption and will name them; that the media will display those marching orders on the letterhead and under the web site name of the planners, and that they asked the people present which ones lived in Little Rock and finally, which ones were on Medicare/Medicaid or Social Security. I hope Snyder and Ross did well at the podium. I hope there was a pro-healthcare reform organization on hand to counter the shouting.

What is happening (and it should be covered this way) is the last gasp of a desperate, done-in Republican party.

What is going to happen (and it may only be a matter of days) is real violence. There will be a scuffle, a fistfight, something thrown or someone seriously injured as a result of this encouragement of chaos at events where Democrats try to meet with their constituents.

If local and national media at these events report only the sensational chaos but do NOT make clear that it is planned chaos then this is what will happen: we'll get the "No one could have predicted" angle: "No one could have predicted that the anti-healthcare reform movement would turn violent."

Yes you can. I'll predict it now.

Ultimately and especially if media cover only the sensational demonstrations and shouting, the media will then be "surprised" and go into a slow-motion "investigation" of "what went wrong." In the end, the GOP will get the blame. (Good, I might add.)

That is why I call this a last-gasp effort of a desperate party. The GOP is going to get the blame in the end. And apparently, the party doesn't care! That's nihilism, folks. It's not just picking up your ball and going home because you're losing the game - it's blowing up the stadium.

Teevee news will be coming on now. Someone please report on the tenor and content of the reporting so we call all discuss further.

We can just stipulate right away that this planned campaign of violent disruption is terrible. What I am trying to do is talk about what happens after that.

Poor ole' Floyd doesn't know what an intellectual is. He tried to make a semantic argument about a term he did not know.

I don't blame him. He can't help it. He'll only know the intellectual as the "other" his whole life--for obvious reasons.

>>elwood:
If you're making an argument for legislators being "intellectuals" (in regards to traffic laws, food regulations, etc.) I suggest you take a long, hard look at those legislators and your definition of an intellectual.<<

Ut Oh! _floyd is coming out of the outhouse with his pants down. eLwood nor anyone else on this site brought up "intellectuals." YOU DID _floyd.

Now, _floyd, DEFINE "intellectual." That is, if you can. Otherwise we write up another case of ignorance....with its pants down.

A colleague of mine went to France last summer to study. She went out on a bike ride one day and had an accident. An ambulance picked her up, medics took her to the hospital, doctors stitched up the cut, put on a bandage, and gave her a pair of crutches. What was the cost to her (remember, she's not a French citizen)? ZERO. To top it off, the government-run medical system upgraded her plane ticket to first class (so she would be more comfortable) and paid for a government nurse to escort her all the way back to the LR airport.

If that is socialized medicine, sign me up as a supporter.

Who was there and can report what happened?

Of course Henry is and has been right since he arrived on the AR blog scene.

There is no Obama plan. His rhetoric changes almost daily.. and it moves the wrong way at every turn. (Now he's Mr. Co-op)

Unless a couple of miracles happen. All of this should die on the vine.

Odds are big pharma and insurance have already won millions of new customers and all old customers who will be forced to pay by the rule of law. And no real public option will exist. No real government bargaining will exist.

it's all just a trillion plus dollar gift to the health corporations. Making a bigger monster than ever before.

According to Talking Points Memo, the Republican National Committee has openly adopted (or is at least frankly fostering) the Teabaggers' "Town Hell" approach. Clicky.

Hard to tell from here, but looks to me like only KTHV was on hand at the Ross/Snyder event. Is this right? That one tv team plus the intrepid AT photog Brian Chilson?

Scottie, were you at work? What did you see or hear?

Eureka, I sure hope you're right.

Excuse, please. Make that the NRCC, not the RNC.

ObamaCare will fail as long as one of the 'cost saving measures' involves the restriction and/or denial of medical procedures on old people. This is especially significant if the formula for Quality of Life Years does not work out to a favorable quotient in the formula when compared to the procedures cost. While this doesn't come out and say, "ObamaCare kills old people" (which it won't), it does give me pause to be concerned that Medicare will not help me when I need it because of a formula in a government document on the cost benefit analysis of my remaining years. I will oppose this entire reform effort until a more favorable outcome is found. Otherwise, do away with all insurance gubment and private, and let everyone fend for themselves again, ala pre-1933.

Eureka, I agree with your take - this is all going to die on the vine.

The vast majority of Americans polled now and for YEARS want reform. What we're getting in any scenario now likely is much worrse:

The only winner here is the corporate healthcare industry. The people lose.

When our entire Congress is bought by them, the people lose.

When a party (GOP) goes for the politics of utter disruption and near-violence, democracy loses.

I'm interested in how it is all playing out, though. We're getting an ever-unrulier mob of scripted demonstrators as a sideshow to the whole issue and the blowback will ultimately cover the GOP. It amazes me that they don't mind taking that risk.

HenryS,

My husband was at the town hall meeting today...what you are saying is NOT true...people are upset and they have every right to be upset since many in the congress and senate ADMIT to not even reading this health care bill and we hear that many liberties are being lost through this it. And now Snyder and Ross both say there are FIVE VERSIONS of it!!! Come on! Even they admitted they do not want the public option...maybe it is because theirs is so good...the plan we pay for in our tax dollars! So what is good for them should be good for us, afterall they do WORK for us don't they?

Since the government doesn't need to make a profit...why don't you see that their public plan will drive out the private insurers?Tell me, how many people will pay $370 a month for a plan or $170 a month? Do you understand?

Obama admits on tape that he wants single payer. Look at who he surrounds himself with...search it out for yourself and don't take my word. Why in the world do you want everything handed to you? Do for yourself...you don't need the government passing judgement on end of life care, they don't need to tell you want you can eat or drink, or what kind of car you can drive. They don't need to be coming into your home COUNSELING you on how to raise your children, my gosh...take a good hard look at our public schools...see how well the government has done?

The government doesn't know what the left hand is doing from the right hand and now you want them to help us all with our own personal health care, when in reality they want to hurry and pass this so that 50 million can have health care? How can you be so short sighted?

And tell me I would like to know too, WHO is saying go and be loud and disruptive? Name the groups...

What Snyder said about Obama isn't true....HE DOES eventually want SINGLE PAYER...it is on FILM...please stop lying to yourselves...how can anyone make an informed decision about anything when lies are being told?

There is no Obama plan. His rhetoric changes almost daily.. and it moves the wrong way at every turn. (Now he's Mr. Co-op)

Unless a couple of miracles happen. All of this should die on the vine.
************
The best thing that could happen, in this bad situation, is for the Progressive, Black and Hispanic Caucuses to kill this legislation in the House and you can be sure that any Senate Bill will be much worse. We don't know what the final result will be but it looks as if the end result will be some expansion of health care for the "poor". All of the middle/lower income working people will get screwed. Even if they manage to enroll 10-20 million un-insured into a "basic plan" that won't happen until 2016. Also the "basic plan" will cover 65% of health care cost with $1000 deductible(?). How the hell does that help any person or family that is living from paycheck to paycheck.

Also the talk about cost savings by the Dems and Obama, no plans to cut into the 33% that the Insurance companies take off the top. The >$8.8 million that the Obama campaign received from the insurance industry is payed back by his position that there wouldn't be "single-payer". What a great pay back on investment..$8-10 million returns $600 million per year. Only Goldman Sachs did better.

THANKS GERARD! What a monkeyhouse, especially that gray-haired old lady who thought that Congress shouldn't have anything to do with "our insurance." Whew! Take away her Medicare and watch what happens.

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Who posted the you tube on this afternoon's town hall meeting in LR AR? Is it so necessary to name call? Honestly, this is about all of us and our quality of life people not just the right or left, black or white.

>>>people are upset and they have every right to be upset since many in the congress and senate ADMIT to not even reading this health care bill...<<<< Cheryl

OUT OF 535 REPS AND 100 SENATORS NAME THREE who did not read it.

"And tell me I would like to know too, WHO is saying go and be loud and disruptive? Name the groups..."

Guess Cheryl missed the memo that's been all over the national news, the memo detailing how to disrupt these meetings, the memo that's been seen by everybody else in the country except, uh, Cheryl.

This thread might be more appropriately titled, "Feed the Trolls."

No, thanks.

Since the government doesn't need to make a profit...why don't you see that their public plan will drive out the private insurers?Tell me, how many people will pay $370 a month for a plan or $170 a month? Do you understand?
...HE DOES eventually want SINGLE PAYER...it is on FILM
*******
That is exactly what need to be done. Making a profit on health insurance is immoral, IMO. Cheryl, can you give the reference to Obama wanting single-payer?? Obama's only condition for the health legislation was no single-payer.

"Why in the world do you want everything handed to you? Do for yourself..."
Cheryl, can you do for yourself? last year before added Medicare, I had two health insurance policies. After having cancer surgery 1 1/2 years ago, I had to pay $50,000 out of pocket costs, to make up for denials, co-pays, and balance billing. Unless you are in the 0.5% income level, you are one serious illness away from bankruptcy. By believing the Insurance Industry propaganda, you and your husband are just cannon fodder in the war for them to keep their $600 billion/year cash flow.

Since the issue briefly touched on public schools, it's important to note that most of the world's schools are government run. In fact, all the most successful ones fall into that category. Click on name for an article on the Finnish system which is one the world's best. Japan's schools are also government run; same for Germany and so on.

Oddly enough, the act which has done the most damage to public schools has been the Republican No Child Left Behind law. It forced many public schools to make cuts in gifted and advanced programs in order to achieve the more egalitarian goal of bringing up the scores of the lower level students. By not providing funding to help schools and with a system designed to criminalize education systems and encourage privatization, NCLB has been the Trojan Horse sent into the public arena to destroy public education in our country.

Meanwhile, back to health care: Where are the answers to these questions?

1. If single-payer were such a problem, how could the European and Asian countries that use single-payer end up with health care systems that rank substantially better than our 37th in the world according to the WHO (World Health Organization,)?

2. Why is the U.S. medical error rate 5 to 9 times higher than some industrial nations?

3. Why is it that 10 Americans leave the country for medical treatment for every foreigner who comes here for treatment?

4. WellPoint, the nation's largest health insurer, rewarded employees for canceling coverage of sick patients. Should this be legal?

5. How many other nations deny their citizens insurance and usually treatment based upon pre-existing conditions?

I don't like intellectual words either, give me some good ole common sense, able to tell day from night and the sense to know the difference between rain showers and golden showers. Is that the defining difference in intellectual , and barnyard sense?

There sure are a lot of stupid people in this country. It's a good thing they are being manipulated by pesky but hapless republican goons and not by a modern day hitler.

eLwood,
How about the Congressman John Conyers who stated this past week why would anybody read a bill that would take two days with two lawyers to understand? The President's Press Sec. responded that the President had not read the bills but was aware of the details. There is no single bill so I doubt if anyone has read all bills. Why should they read a bill, they didn't do it on the Cap and Trade bill.
Two weeks ago Pryor said he voted on the bill that would allow a person to carry a gun across state line after only reading the title. Then he changed his vote after being informed by his staff what was in it. Don't you think we deserve something better than that?

wow, because PRESIDENT Obama once said he supported single payer when he was running for the Senate, it means he can never, ever, EVER change his mind.
Never.
So he once said he supported single payer, I wish he still did, I wish we were discussing medicare for all.

Cheryl do you have a problem with medicare? Do your parents use medicare?

Why should a executive get a bonus if he denies enough folks payment of treatment? Do you not find that appalling that insurance companies and executives of those companies make millions and millions of dollars off the suffering of others?
Do you think it is right that folks who own small businesses either can't afford to provide insurance to their employees and themselves or spend so much money on their premiumns that they are not doing as well as they could.
Do you think it is great that 2/3 of the bankruptcies in this country are do to health care cost and that the majority of those people HAD health insurance?

Are you a Christian? Do you ever wondering what would Jesus do? The church has said that health care is a basic human right? Are we our brothers keeper or are we not?

To think as a child about this, I recall the time my tonsils were taken out at the Baptist Hosptial, being put under and then awakening in the children's ward. When in walked this Big Man, my Father with a train set patterned after the Rock Island Rocket, a mighty fine line. Many kids would not have had the healthcare I received then, most would not have been delviered by Dr. T.J. Raney and many families suffer when loved ones do not get the requisite care. To lift the spirits, folks are going to need to get on board, to discuss and advance a simple but complex piece of legislation that assures a right to healthcare. I can assure you that even when on a Federal healthcare policy, that when my treating physician suggested that I go outside Humana's listed physicians, the effort was problematic. And when I've since then talked to the folks who created the policies, there is an anttitude that the folks will not stay on the policies. A concept of cherry picken occurs... So now if in my mind, a country can bond and finance the eqiupment for the military industrial complex, the body politic owes it to the citizeny the policy that assures a decent, fair and just level of comprehensive healthcare. Is this not an affront to the dignity of mankind, to be alive in this century, to witness the level of frustration and political hype being advanced by the uninformed for the uninformed? Think clearly and ponder about the structure of the gift of life and share as needed! Your children and the next generation need care, not to ignore the aged!

Jesus, that video is a trainwreck of the crazy...

"I want my country back"
"regardless of your mamma or daddy or grandpa..."

I gotta tell ya, I actually can't figure out what half of these folks are talking about.
What are the old people afraid of? They have health insurance....gov't run health care.
That video is just one confusing mix of "they want to kill my mama" and "OMG! there is negro in the White House".

I'm kinda glad I did not go today, how do you keep from laughing at the level of idiocy and fear being expressed?

From Merriam-Webster; intellectual: 1 a: of or relating to the intellect or its use b: developed or chiefly guided by the intellect rather than by emotion or experience : rational c: requiring use of the intellect 2 a: given to study, reflection, and speculation b: engaged in activity requiring the creative use of the intellect.

Adult, maybe; mature, maybe not.

"The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creature that cannot."
Mark Twain

I'd like to know who is encouraging these trolls to get on here and argue every day. They seem to be taking turns doing it, to. Yesterday, it was Mike. Today, its ___Floyd. Tomorrow, it will be some other turd.

But who, for goodness sakes, would brag on the fact that they are Tea Baggers. Google the term "Tea Bagging" and see what you get....lol

They're a bunch of fringgin' idiots.

Cheryl,
I don't know you or anything about you...but, I don't think there is anyone on this blog who wants anything "handed to" him or her. We simply don't think health insurance, as we know it today, works for many people.
I know that I am not willing to abandon the 20% the old shrew in the video was talking about (Betcha she is on Medicare,,,but doesn't see the irony) just to spite Obama.
Turning our backs on those less fortunate than ourselves is just not right, and it sure isn't Christian.
The teabaggers on the video weren't there to listen and learn, they were there for one purpose only - to vent their hatred at our president.
What a bunch of haters...Do you want Congress to just say "Okay, fine, no more Medicare, no more Medicaid. Close the nursing homes and deny sick kids and the disabled and the poor coverage." Is that what you mean when you say people should "do for themselves"?
We need to move forward and make America the shining star it once was in the world.
Have a pleasant night, Ms. Cheryl, and don't give a thought to real people who are suffering because they have pre-existing conditions and can't get inurance, or to those who can't afford rent and groceries, let alone premiums, or to those who face bankruptcy.
They can do for themselves.

ARKBLOG loves to editorialize instead of reporting facts. Ideology just keeps getting in the way of what is obvious. People of Arkansas are mad and they are tired of having things crammed down their throats. I have viewed several of these 'town meetings' and the editorializing by the demos has been notorious. Calling American citizens who are doing no more than exercising their constitutional rights 'thugs' is shameful. I have witnessed countless youtubes of conservative speakers being shouted down and run off by left wingers who didn't want the conservatives to exercise their free speech rights. I find it rather humorous to hear leftist members of this blog pretend like they have never heard of left wingers shouting down conservatives. Yea, the pope isn't catholic.

Obama made a living teaching groups like acorn how to really get in their face and intimidate governments, bankers, businessmen, etc. No one on this blog would have had any problem with that because the anointed one was doing it. What hypocrisy!

Yup, ya gotta love old farts demanding the government stay out of healthcare as they suck the life out of Medicare. (BTW and an aside: My hubby holds 'old ladies' personally responsible for the Bush Presidency.) But I LOVE this stuff...LOVE IT! Give em a microphone and turn them loose...just like HBO did when they followed the McCain/Palin supporters around the country. (Plus I always enjoy seeing elected folks work hard to earn their cushy healthcare plans/salaries...Democrat and Republican.) And it's much more fun to watch these folks yammer on now that the Chief Idiot is out of the White House...couldn't muster up much political laughter during the Dark Times.

Can't wait to see what the Daily Show does with all these darlings.

The brain-washing is working...my 79-year-old mom-in-law told us today that 'they' were out to get rid of 'old people.' Of course she gets all her news from Central Baptist...and her Sunday School class of gray-haired women just like her.

In some 'town meetings' the Congressmen were asked if obamacare is so good what isn't the congress covered by it? I wished that every town meeting had this question asked and if they don't get an answer then they should be pressed until they answer. Again just another example of the hypocricy of saint vic and all that other congressmen who support obamacare. They think it is ok for us but not for them.

What an embarrassing video! Seeing these people respond so thoughtlessly and mindlessly and so obviously mentally and emotionally dominated by Fox News actually DOES make me wonder about our education system. But then, you can lead a horse to water....

The arkblog would rather everyone get their 'information' from the dailykos or botox nancy.

Yes, that is right the schools are predominately government run. Would you like your health care handled by the ones who give you public education? I rest my case.

Many Americans don't feel any obligation to provide health insurance at taxpayer expense to millions who are illegal aliens and millions who choose not to buy health insurance because they are young and don't need it. nancy and the rest of the demos want you to pay for these folks so they can get more demo voters who will keep them in office so they can leech off of those of us who work for a living. Someone has to keep her in office so she can take advantage of those free private jets she is purchasing for the elite. Really, darling, we just shouldn't have to rub elbows with the little people.

Americonio, to quote "The Princess Bride" - "I do not think that word means what you think it means."

The most interesting polling data I have seen recently is how the support and opposition for this health insurance overhaul breaks down by age bracket. The majority opposed come from the over 50 bracket, most likely with insurance, while the majority in favor come form the under 50 bracket, those who are less likely to have insurance & who are acquainted with the pre-existing condition & rescission provisions. Link on the blue click for that.

The simple fact is that the current system is not working. The question is what do we do to fix this system? The shape of the reform is where we ought to be having a real discussion and not whether it is needed. If competition is good as the free market opponents of this plan claim, why is competition for the HMOs bad if it a public run plan? The flip side of this question is how do we ensure that we maintain a robust private system to avoid problems like the one in the Ukraine?

"[America] was beginning to get very tired of sitting by her [wingnut] on the bank, and of having nothing to do: once or twice she had peeped into the book her [wingnut] was reading, but it had no pictures or conversations in it, `and what is the use of a book,' thought [America] `without pictures or conversation?'

So she was considering in her own mind (as well as she could, for the hot day made her feel very sleepy and stupid), whether the pleasure of making a daisy-chain would be worth the trouble of getting up and picking the daisies, when suddenly a White [teabagger] with pink eyes ran close by her.

There was nothing so very remarkable in that; nor did [America] think it so very much out of the way to hear the [teabagger] say to itself, `Oh dear! Oh dear! I shall be late!' (when she thought it over afterwards, it occurred to her that she ought to have wondered at this, but at the time it all seemed quite natural); but when the [teabagger] actually took a watch out of its waistcoat-pocket, and looked at it, and then hurried on, [America] started to her feet, for it flashed across her mind that she had never before seen a [teabagger] with either a waistcoat-pocket, or a watch to take out of it, and burning with curiosity, she ran across the field after it, and fortunately was just in time to see it pop down a large rabbit-hole under the hedge."

My, aren't we all stirred up tonight. In 1959, the great American comedian-philosopher, Mort Sahl, described socialized medicine as "a dangerous trend toward good health." Of course, he was considered to be an anti-American Communist agent, even though Britain had adopted a universal health insurance plan several years earlier. Fifty years later, we still have not come any further in this country. People who favor universal coverage are still labeled as un-American and dangerous enemies of the republic. I'm 75 years old and I don't think I will ever see in my lifetime any progress on this.

Mag, tippytom, Just to be clear.. I am saying it all probably ***should*** die on the vine... I am in no way saying it will die on the vine.

There are far to many people who will listen only to the surface of Obama (and others) words. Talking nice on occasion about single payor or even public options is far from actual legislation which will provide such a thing.

They probably listen to NPR. (Nice Polite Republican radio)

The Cheryl's of the world will think it's what he's delivering... and he has never intended to deliver single payer or public options.. not even during the primary season. Words don't matter... the bill does.

There is no bill under serious consideration which will provide even a robust public option.

When botox nancy accuses disgruntled Americans of being nazis and thugs she needs to remember that these are the people who pay her salary. After all, nanc is nothing more than hired help and she needs to remember that. Jefferson believed fervently that when the government breaks the compact it has with it's citizens as established through the Constitution then the people no longer have an obligation to support that government or to let that government stand. nancy and her thugs are dangerously flirting with that situation.

What people are angry about are representatives who don't listen and recklessly lead this country into a debt that we will never be able to get out of. This debt will be paid by our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren. It will cause the significant reduction in our standard of living. The CBO has said that it is unsustainable. You don't have to have a PHD in Economics to understand that this huge level of debt is destructive of this republic. They also are angry that the people who are voting on this can't answer their questions and are really clueless about the details of the plan. They are tired of being ignored by the Washington elites and they are going to let them know it.

"Jefferson believed fervently that when the government breaks the compact it has with it's citizens as established through the Constitution then the people no longer have an obligation to support that government or to let that government stand."

I'm amazed that a war based on misinformation with thousands of Americans dead and 100s of thousands of dead civilians in Iraq, an administration that turned the Justice Department into a political arm of the Republican party, an administration that basically broke the world could not get these folks riled, but a NEGRO in the White House and health care for all can get them to dig up Jefferson's corpse and threaten a revolution.
I say some people have some seriously screwed up priorities.

Teabaggers:
Angry people who can't answer questions and are really clueless about the details of the health care plan.

They are INTENTIONALLY being lied to by the government and they are angry. As usual, this blog tries desperately to make this a racial issue. It is your standard default for everything. That doesn't work anymore. You had better find another gimmick cause this one is all used up.

While we debate this people that do not have insurance, and can't get medical care, are dying. I guess this is what the (republican) teabaggers want. May God have mercy on their souls.

First of all, not having insurance DOES NOT mean you do not receive health care. Also, you have IGNORED my repeated statements that millions who have no insurance are illegal aliens and millions who have no insurance choose that because they are young and don't believe they need it. Get your facts straight and quit your daily feeding at the 'don't think dailykos'.

I received this today from an official of the DNC:

There's been a lot of media coverage about organized mobs intimidating lawmakers, disrupting town halls, and silencing real discussion about the need for real health insurance reform.

The truth is, it's a sham. These "grassroots protests" are being organized and largely paid for by Washington special interests and insurance companies who are desperate to block reform. They're trying to use lies and fear to break the President and his agenda for change.

Health insurance reform is about our lives, our jobs, and our families -- we can't let distortions and intimidation get in the way. We need to expose these outrageous tactics, and we're counting on you to help. Can you read these "5 facts about the anti-reform mobs," then pass them along to your friends and family?

5 facts about the anti-reform mobs

1. These disruptions are being funded and organized by out-of-district special-interest groups and insurance companies who fear that health insurance reform could help Americans, but hurt their bottom line. A group run by the same folks who made the "Swiftboat" ads against John Kerry is compiling a list of congressional events in August to disrupt. An insurance company coalition has stationed employees in 30 states to track where local lawmakers hold town-hall meetings.

2. People are scared because they are being fed frightening lies. These crowds are being riled up by anti-reform lies being spread by industry front groups that invent smears to tarnish the President's plan and scare voters. But as the President has repeatedly said, health insurance reform will create more health care choices for the American people, not reduce them. If you like your insurance or your doctor, you can keep them, and there is no "government takeover" in any part of any plan supported by the President or Congress.

3. Their actions are getting more extreme. Texas protesters brought signs displaying a tombstone for Rep. Lloyd Doggett and using the "SS" symbol to compare President Obama's policies to Nazism. Maryland Rep. Frank Kratovil was hanged in effigy outside his district office. Rep. Tim Bishop of New York had to be escorted to his car by police after an angry few disrupted his town hall meeting -- and more examples like this come in every day. And they have gone beyond just trying to derail the President's health insurance reform plans, they are trying to "break" the President himself and ruin his Presidency.

4. Their goal is to disrupt and shut down legitimate conversation. Protesters have routinely shouted down representatives trying to engage in constructive dialogue with voters, and done everything they can to intimidate and silence regular people who just want more information. One attack group has even published a manual instructing protesters to "stand up and shout" and try to "rattle" lawmakers to prevent them from talking peacefully with their constituents.

5. Republican leadership is irresponsibly cheering on the thuggish crowds. Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner issued a statement applauding and promoting a video of the disruptions and looking forward to "a long, hot August for Democrats in Congress."

It's time to expose this charade, before it gets more dangerous. Please send these facts to everyone you know. You can also post them on your website, blog, or Facebook page.

Now, more than ever, we need to stand strong together and defend the truth.

Thanks,

Jen

Jen O'Malley Dillon
Executive Director
Democratic National Committee

Frankly, I hope that the demos keep up these scurrilous attacks on American voters. Keep calling them nazis, thugs, angry mob, etc. That should do you really nicely when election time arrives in 2010. The Repubs could never put something this successful together. They are too dumb and wimpy to pull something like this off. This is truly grassroots. Please, keep it up.

The more the Teabaggers exercise their freedom of speech, the more we can understand the reason why the Republican leadership considers them "useful idiots". They use them and then laugh at them.

mike, I know a young man who works two jobs and will be paying UAMS for a long time because he couldn't afford health insurance and his wife had to have hysterectomy. At least UAMS (using some form of a socialistic source of funds, I'm sure) was able to save him some of the cost. He's not a wetback, either.

saint vic made the national news tonight. It was reported by a commentator that one Arkansas representative hid behind sick children to try and avoid the angry citizens. I love it. Good old 'run down the middle' vic.

Mike, how much are you being paid to post on this blog? I mean, when you're not reading up on Thomas Jefferson.

I know a man....... I also know a man who goes to work everyday, raises his kids, loves his wife and expects most of his income to go to his family. The portion he gives to the government in taxes he expects to be spent responsibly as he spends his money. He takes care of his family and expects other countries to take care of their citizens. He doesn't feel obligated to be put on the 'sucker's list' because he is a decent guy. Yea, I know a man........

Mike, you are making us uncomfortable. We are used to not thinking. We are used to being reinforced in our monologue thought. We don't like someone who disagrees with us. How much will you take to leave us alone?

The 'duh' guys

For a second there, I thought mike had come to his senses with his 8:04 post. Then I saw the second one. LOL.
You betcha we intend to keep it up. We are fed up with fools and idiots and liars and crooks and thieves. The Democrats have always been too nice, letting the Republicans get away with fucking this country. But, now we are mad, too, and we are done with nice.
The Republican party is done, too, except in the South. Ironic, isn't it? In the 1950's you could not find a Republican in the South, but the Civil Rights Acts changed all that.
So the trolls can rant and rave and hijack threads all they want, I don't care, but the truth is the truth. They hate the POTUS because he is black and an Uppity N. (Admitting that he's far and away smarter than they are blows their tiny, tinfoil minds.)

.............SAME QUESTION TO YOU...saywhat:

......OUT OF 535 REPS AND 100 SENATORS NAME THREE who did not read it.

.

kiz, the racial shtick is worn out. It won't work anymore.

eLwood,
I don't think they would answer if they didn't read it. They didn't read Cap and Trade so why do you think this would be any different. I emailed both the offices of our Senators asking if they had read the bills and I have not received an answer. Can you give me a list of those who have read the bills? Maybe all congressmen should have to take a test before voting on bills? Then the public would know if they really know what they are talking about or are they just repeating talking points.

When we reach a point that a rep or senator readily admits to not knowing what he is voting on then God help us when that bill results in debt that we can not pay back.

"Yes, that is right the schools are predominately government run. Would you like your health care handled by the ones who give you public education? I rest my case."

A challenge for you mike. Next time you are in a professional's office and you see his degrees on the wall, walk up and see how many of these are from public schools. Then I dare you to turn around and walk out for fear of incompetency. Accept?

These 40 or 50 million uninsured folks----if we add them to the insurance rolls where are we going to get the doctors, nurses and tecnicians to treat them?

Your right of "free speech" ends when it interupts my right of free speech.

I think it is time to let the heralthcare change die. The rates will go up another 15% next year, except for you BCBS policyholders who already got hit with an 11% increase. Medicare rates will go up and that will make the teabaggers happy since Social Security isn't going up for two years The Defense budget will have to be cut to assure that Medicare has enough funds but that's okay as already have enough nuclear weapons to kill everyone in the world 8 times.

The teabaggers takes their name from a fraud in history and with their collective stupidity deserves to have their own costs go up.

People in need will continue to get needed medical care and we will all pay for it in either hospital upcharges, tax increases, or closed medical facilities (Brinkley anyone?). The need to change is real but I would suggest that Obama serve his 8 years and turn a budget that can't be fixed over to a Republican and let them try to dig their way out of this problem. It will be 25% worse and the options fewer but after all, they can get Mike to solve it for them so he can stop 10 entries on every blog topic.

And for the first entry who pays for everything out-of-pocket. Hell, anyone can refuse to use their insurance as a matter of principle. The hospital or doctor probably can be trained to take cash. Don't expect to get the reduced insurance rate but you want to make a point so go ahead and pay your own bills. The Treasury thanks you for your support.

"Your right of "free speech" ends when it interupts my right of free speech."

Well, if that is true, pal, that applies to conservatives just as much as it applies to lefties. So far your side isn't doing too well.

remember when...schools were a place of learning instead of no one left behind? how much money do we spend on "helpers" for "students" that cann't even speak? that are not conitent? when did our schools become babysitters for people that don't have the ability to learn. instead, now we have programs to pass every person that's in school. it kinda defeats the purpose of education, doesn't it. no one left behind. what a bunch of bullshit that is. when you don't have the capibility to learn or even be aware of what's going on arround you...well, should my tax dollars provide you with a free daycare center until you're 17 or 18 years old? thats what moms and dads are for. sorry, some folks are meant to be left behind. always have been, always will be.

Mike is a hopeless cause. To make fun of sellercreek's post proves it.
Teabaggers like Laurie Masterson posting on Twitter are equally frustrating. They just think this whole business is great fun...BASH OBAMA and giggle.

Riddle me this Mike, a war based on misinformation with thousands of Americans dead and 100s of thousands of dead civilians in Iraq, an administration that turned the Justice Department into a political arm of the Republican party, an administration that basically broke the world could not get these folks riled up, but a NEGRO in the White House and health care for all can get them to dig up Jefferson's corpse and threaten a revolution.
I say some people have some seriously screwed up priorities.
Why do you only care now?
Where were all these people for the last 8 years?

I guess when I posted the letter that I received from the DNC I was being too subtle. I thought that possibly someone on this blog would 'get it'. Obviously, I was wrong. Those of you who have pegged me as being a card carrying Republican should have at least wondered why I was on the mailing list from the DNC. I'll try not to be so subtle next time.

Ummm, Spanky, who are these little people who don't have the ability to learn? And who "cann't even speak? that are not contitent?"

Watching that vid, reading the wingnut spew in here one can smell the stupidity through the monitor.

Those two pos politicians are just as bad too.

I thought it was 'millions of dead civilians' in Iraq. Gee, you mean it is 100s of thousands. I just can't explain the discrepancy. M I L L I O N S!!!!!! How many MILLIONS have been killed in Afghanistan. They once accused my generation of killing----I don't know how many thousand, millions, billions-----I forget. Yea, when we had a white boy in office from Texas----Lyndon Johnson---man, there wasn't any limit to the things you could hang on that boy.

way to ignore Mike.
Once again where were all of these folks for the last 8 years?
Why are they so pissed now?

'sucker's list'

Corporate welfare costs far more, think of a war based on lies.

"As soon as you concern yourself with the 'good' and 'bad' of your fellows, you create an opening in your heart for maliciousness to enter. Testing, competing with, and criticizing others weaken and defeat you."
Morihei Ueshiba

The commentary by the photographer, Chilson, is so dishonest as to be shocking. I attended the event but heard no one mention "sick Mexicans washing up on the shore," although clearly the two Congressmen stated they were strongly opposed to health care benefits for illegal aliens. As far as scripts, these are called "notes." Both Congressman Snyder and Ross spoke off of their scripts - it is a way to organize thoughts and stay on message. The notes I saw used by those who voiced opinions were hand written or typed on a word processor at home. With the exception of one overly emotional attendee, the audience was respectful and patient.
It is this disrespect of opposing views and outright misrepresentation of events that causes such cynicism about the media and its motives. This event was anything but raucous. (And it is so interesting to note that all attendees seem to have come without a political group busing them, paying them or instructing them to shout down others.)

Thank you 'be real' for one of the rarest and most honest comments I have ever experienced on this blog. I really do appreciate it.

kizzy, they are the people that should be cared for by their family. not put into the at large school population. or at least not to the extent that it takes resources away from the average student. surely you know of some "students" of which i speak?

I see the problem! It's right there in the video! These people have been suffering for years since Sally Jesse Raphael and Jenny Jones, and Jerry Springer left daytime TV. These poor idiots have been sitting at home with all this pent up emotion whirring in their tiny brains and no outlet. Now, Cigna and other giant health care groups have dialed their numbers and given them dates and times of public forums where they can flock to display their complete ignorance! Bring back Jerry Springer!!!

My neighbors are Mexicans and Vietnamese....I can't understand what they're saying. But what's worse are the people in the above video. They appear to be speaking English but their words strung in sentences adds up to nothing. The single guy with the bad hair at the beginning makes no sense at all. I can't understand what the straw-hair woman is crying about. Granny, whose obviously been on Medicare since Jerry Ford was plunking people with golf balls, makes no sense and the fat woman in the tacky shirt....what the fuck is she saying....my parents are dead hon....my grandparents are dust. What are the papers in their hands? The minute they open their mouths...you know these are not readers.

I say we give up. Just shut down the damn government for 5 years and see what we get. The Congressmen on the stage are worthless and the crowd is worse. I really hate to say it...but Osama was right...America is the great Satan.....10 more minutes of watching this video and I'd start building a gas chamber in my back yard. What an awful country we've become.......

While I'm having my little Jesus on the cross moment....I can make myself feel better by looking up to my right and seeing the smiling face of Franklin Roosevelt in his official 1932 campaign picture. He inherited a pus-fill, maggot infested Republican mess too. A larger portion of the citizens he served were more ignorant than what we have today...if you can wrap your mind around that. He had Obama's problems in reverse....first a Depression and then a war...a giant war. And in the end, though he didn't live to see it, everything turned out OK. Smile at me Frank......I'm needing you right now.

I need to buck up because the ugly isn't even here yet. If you think the dying Republicans are mad now...just give em another couple of months. Fed on secret money from the big health care industry....they're spooling out miles of rope that will hang them...if we just keep our heads and let them keep spinning. No one today was alive to see the Whig death throes....it probably wasn't a pretty sight either.....our country was as divided and crazy then as it is now. So things will get a lot worse before they get better.

I just hope we can fix things before we start shooting at each other. No wonder the wingnuts have been busy trying to pass all these gun laws. No wonder they want to be able to hide their weapons as they cross state lines. They're preparing for all out war. Look into the faces on the above video....they can kill and they're preparing to kill. Well....we've had nearly a century and a half of peace within the US borders since the Civil War began. Maybe it's time for another one? When words quit working, war follows. When reason goes out the door, the guns come out. These people are doing more than just clinging to their guns and religion....We're in deep shit.

What could be the best time since humans crawled out of the swamp on their fins...is being ruined. We have the ability to meet the needs of every human on earth, but we're squandering it. What doesn't go to war goes into the pockets of the very rich. The sick and the poor be damned. Instead of paradise we're engineering our own end. We've shit in our own nest. Maybe we don't deserve a future? I'll just continue to look up at FDR and place my faith in Obama. The only thing that will save these idiots in the video is the Rapture.....so I'd advise them to get to prayin. Gird yer loins and hunt up yer helmet....civil war is coming round the corner.

Lot of circle flies buzzing around tonight. (See "Take it Away" thread).

Exactly what I thought as I read Mike's DNC letter, Kizzy -- somehow Mike done seen the light. I shoulda known better. (And Mike, I get e-mail, boiler-plate to be sure, from John Boozman. Think I'm a Repug? Not a chance. Not unless Winthrop Rockefeller -- not Winthrop Paul -- rises from the grave. And only then for that one man.)
The racial shtick doesn't exist, right? So how come in the 1990s we had the insurance companies' Harry and Louise, but now all we hear is "Obamacare" from the likes of Mike.
THERE IS NO OBAMACARE!
Ok, that's my quota of yelling for the night.
You have a president who is trying to push Congress -- not nearly enough in my opinion -- to come up with something to assure that the people in this country have health care when they need it, not when it's too late to do much more than hold their hand and pray. It's not his plan. It is a plan, actually several plans, written in the halls of Congress. Those plans must be reconciled, then voted upon.
THERE IS NO OBAMACARE! (So I lied.)
Those squealing "Obamacare" over and over again are latching on to the one thing they can see that they can understand -- that there is a black man in the Oval Office and he ain't the janitor. He ain't polishing shoes and saying, "Yassir," to all the white folks around him. And those mighty upset white folks -- Mike among them, I figure -- just can't stand it.

From Channel 7 news tonight:
It was reported that both Snyder and Ross will not say if they are for or against Obama's health plan because they have not had a chance to see the complete plan. At least they are honest enough to say they don't know shit about what is going on.

"Those of you who have pegged me as being a card carrying Republican should have at least wondered why I was on the mailing list from the DNC"

The DNC letter is widely available all over the Internet. There is no reason for us to believe that Mike got it in his email. It only proves he can copy and paste.

It's entirely possible that mike is a Mike Ross type Blue Cross Democrat. For all we know mike works at Blue Cross. I am expecting more out of Vic Snyder....but honestly...why should he be different from all the rest?

Some of you on this blog are old enough to remember the McCarthy days, Civil Rights Movement, and the Cold War hysteria. You can remember a time when the actions of our country were far different than what we all knew was the right thing to do in our hearts.

"I just hope we can fix things before we start shooting at each other.' By DBI

He nailed it. We haven't progressed from 1861. I say 'we' as a citizen of Arkansas and birthed in Alabama. I'm "Southern'' to the core and I'm embarrassed.

Doigotta, you're right. It's all racism.

When I saw the stat that said 53 percent of Southerners thought Obama wasn't a United States citizen, I was embarrassed.

When I witnessed Arkansas (a supposed Blue State) going for McCain by a 60-40 margin, I was embarrassed.

When I also witnessed Arkansas banning gay adoption (thus, making the state a laughingstock to the nation), I was embarrassed.

When I saw our supposed Democratic governor, 2 senators and 3 of 4 representatives shy away from Obama during the general election, I was embarrassed.

When I saw Mike Ross and Blanche Lincoln singled out on Countdown in front of a national audience, I was embarrassed.

My ultra-right wing brother told me to ''get the hell to Massachusetts if I didn't like it here'' recently.

Actually, he's right. I'm not going to make headway with any progressive issues as long as I live in the South. I wish all the Southern states would secede so I can move to the United States.

Let the South become the Confederacy and shoot all gays & blacks and attack Iran and North Korea. They can be assault-weapon loving people who have banned abortion. They can legislate polygamy! They can do away with all medicare and social security because it's socialist.

Let the shooting commence...I'm moving to the United States.

THANK YOU MIKE, AS YOU CAN TELL THESE CHERRY PICKIN NEANDERTHALS ARE SO EATEN UP WITH THE DAILY KOS KOOLAID THEY CANNOT ACCEPT THE TRUTH AS YOU TOLD IT IF THEIR LITTLE POINTED HEADS DEPENDED ON IT.
THE MEETING WAS MUCH MORE THAN PORTRAYED ON THIS BLOG AND THE VIDEOS AND THE OPINION OF ONE VIDEOGRAPHER.
ANYONE WHO WAS AT THE MEETING WOULD BACK YOU UP. THESE LIBERAL TROLLS HAVE EVIDENTLY NOT EVEN CARED ENOUGH ABOUT THE MATTER TO SEEK THE TRUTH AND ACCEPT IT WHEN THEY HEAR IT. THEY ARE JAMMED AND CRAMMED WITH THE "CHANGE" THEY ARE GOING TO GET. NOTICE OVER A YEAR AGO AND MANY TIMES THE "DEAR LEADER" SAID ON FILM HE WANTED SINGLE PAYER. AND ALL YOU ALLUDED TO. THEY HAVE THEIR PERVERTED LITTLE HEADS SO FAR INTO THE SAND AS TO ACT AS IF YOU ARE TOTALLY INSANE, OR LIKE THE GRASSROOT TEABAGGERS, CANNOT HAVE A SINGLE THOUGHT OF YOUR OWN ABOUT ANY OF THIS.. HAD TO BE SCRIPTED AND PLANTED AND COREOGRAPHED BY WHOMEVER THEY CHOOSE TO BLAME..

MIKE FOR PRESIDENT. OR ANY OTHER OFFICE YOU MIGHT WANT TO RUN FOR. YOU WOULD GET LOTS OF VOTES. SIR.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR CARE AND CONCERN. YOU ARE A GOOD MAN "CHARLIE BROWN".

BTW. ALL YOU LIBBERS OUT THERE .. BETTER DO A RECOUNT ON YOUR RIGHTWING NUTS AT THE MEETING. LOTS OF DEMS THERE THAT ACTUALLY VOTED FOR OBAMA. DIDNT SEE THE OVERFLOW ROOMS DID YOU.. SHOULD HAVE. EYEOPENERS. WHO BUSSED THE DEMS TO THIS FIASCO. WE ALL KNOW THEY CANT DO IT ALONE.

oh, more fun.

Thankfully (Founders) only individuals can vote. There were no Corporations, and they still can't cast votes. EXCEPT they don't need to vote, as they've bought enough of our "public servants" to do their bidding, best interest of the country be damned! ES is right in his insistance nothing will change until ALL corporate/PAC/lobbying, etc. $ is OUT of the political process. I'd add that returning the Fourth Estate to independence will also hasten the process of returning control to "we the people."

As for Obama he made a big mistake (ES, again) - SHOULD have gone for real reform, as he NOW retreats to a mixed bag/hit-or-miss from the mish-mash that never was. And what will eventually pass will set back actual reform 10 years, which could be enough to bankrupt the country. Nice going "leadership!" We didn't sink to 37th in healthfulness for nothing...

Haven't read thru all of this yet, but GREAT job w/the "Trolls-be-Gone" on the Open Line tonight = KUDOS!!

Dang if there ain't a lot of dumbassery on parade here - everything from general ignorance about legislative process ("they have FIVE different versions of this bill!!!!") and the general theory of doing drafts to get to a final product, to what may perhaps be the ultimated in dumbassery: insisting on doing something in a way that clearly doesn't work just because it fits an ideology. Clue: if you're doing something a certain way that doesn't work because you have make it fit with a rigid ideology, it's the ideology that is inadequate.

A lot of these teabaggers, the ones that aren't animated solely by racism, nativism, or just generally being poor losers, cling to the idea that there's something evil inherent if every single human activity or need isn't privatized for the purpose of profit. But we've seen what happens when we allow business unfettered control over the market for things that are basic human needs. Anyone remember how well energy dereg worked out for California, or Enron's role in pushing rates there 1000% higher? We have the same situation in health care now. We are essentially held hostage by very powerful multi-billion dollar businesses whose business model is legalized fraud. As in they can take your money for years and then deny payment for treatment when you need it. The odds are in their favor; you might die while you're fighting to make them uphold their end of the bargain, and if you don't, well, they've got millions of dollars, a cadre of sharp attorneys on staff to handle these types of situations, and all the time in the world. You don't have any of those things. By the time you ever get resolution, your home and life savings will be long gone - if you aren't already dead. And I say you're "held hostage" because you are - you have no options outside of private insurance companies, and all of them are in business to make as much profit as possible. Human nature being what it is, if someone stands to profit by allowing someone else to die, then people are going to be allowed to die. If your ideology insists that this is a better outcome because even though it kills people, it's not "socialism" or it's a "free market", then your ideology is wrong, and by clinging to it you show yourself to be illogical, irrational, and generally stupid.

The teabaggers insist that all insurance remain private, but if it does, the only way to address the abuses is to very highly regulate it - and how much chance of success does that stand with an industry with multi-billions of dollars lobbying every day of every week, year in and year out, for every advantage they can get that will boost profits? A smart person would recognize this and see it as the incipient failure it is destined to be. Therein the wisdom of simply competing with the private insurers. They'll have no choice but to step up their game, rather than simply buying the set of rules they want to operate under. Again, a smart person could figure this out fairly easily.

But teabaggers aren't smart people, and they're generally resentful of smart people.

...in other words, resentful of "intellectuals." The advent of Bush Lite brought us to the point where being ignorant is a good thing. Bizarre. As to Cheryl (and latest disrupters BS) the "kill old people" misinformation stems from the provision that the Living Will concept be studies for standardization and become a RIGHT available to all whom wish to avail themselves. To these dupes that translates into "kill old pelple" with "rationing" (as if denying care to almost 59 nillion people, and forcing those WITH insurance into bankruptcy is not "rationing!) and the other BIG LIE: Complete. Government. Takeover.

The proof that these folks honor ignorance over truth: they consistently fall for the Repug LIES masquerading as facts.

Plain and simple....NO ONE should make a profit off the sick..!!! Let the insurance companies become "non profit" if they want to stay...

As Hillary Clinton said, "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic, and we should stand up and say, 'WE ARE AMERICANS AND WE HAVE A RIGHT TO DEBATE AND DISAGREE WITH ANY ADMINISTRATION!'"

My God! I go to sleep slathered in shea butter and wake up all beautified and eager to start another glorious day in fabulous Chenal with Pilates in my basement . . . only to find, over my first cup of Cornerstone coffee from Oregon this Thursday morn (Thor's day, eLwood -- Jupiter), that this thread's still perking!

Exhilarating, Razorbabies!

For my own sanity, let me briefly recap all that's occurred here while I visited Dreamland.

RSVP -- I don't mind anybody making a legitimate profit off of treating the sick and I'm sure you didn't literally mean what you said. Years of costly study and dedication required to be a physician deserve an honest reward commensurate with the education, expense and dedication involved.

I'm happy to pay a surgeon FAR more than the guy who cleans my gutters.

But the insurance companies? And those who work for them? Lobby for them? Big Pharma and those who work / lobby for them? Sue-happy malpractice attorneys with an eye to the bottom line instead of addressing genuine cases of medical malpractice -- which only escalate the costs of "health care" in America?

No.

I'm all for funding medical and pharmaceutical R&D and maintaining what USED to be America's number-one global health-care standards.

But not through the legal extortion that lobbyists have enforced for the health insurance Mafia in this country.

Not through the endless loop of INSURANCE funding for R&D and Big Pharma's endlessly escalating development and marketing of questionable drugs prematurely released (or worse, marketed with concealed dangerous side effects requiring two pages of tiny print disclaimers) . . . and --

Golly! I'm barely up and ALREADY distressed!

And Larry and Jenn and Sister and Scottie and DBI and Dott and NVR and . . . oh, Razorbabies, too many to mention -- but I love you all -- fairly nice job NOT feeding the trolls and contributing stimulating thoughts and information here.

Yet, take my hand and walk the next step together with me here at Thor's Day dawn or whatever.

Blogs are NOT physical Town Hall meetings where the factless, frustrated, fractious and frenzied can outyell you or haul out concealed weapons and incite mayhem to see their otherwise anonymous lives on TV for 10 seconds that night.

They want what we all want: To feel like we matter, that we're heard, that we maybe make a difference.

Except they're nascent Brown Shirts, as others have pointed out on this thread.

The ONLY reason trolls hang on blogs the way "circle flies" hang, uh, where they hang (regulars know) . . . is because trolls successfully chum the waters here. Usually with adolescent personal insults having nothing to do with the topic. NEVER with anything constructive, new, worthwhile or factual.

Ever been deep-sea fishing, my Razorbabies? Trolls are EXACTLY like chum. Dead fish pieces thrown into the sea to attract LIVE fish who are hungry.

I'm not hungry. So I rarely reply to trolls except, perhaps, to expose some outrageous lie with facts and links. Otherwise I couldn't care less what they say about me, you, the topic, the weather . . . why WOULD I? Why would you?

I just read around them, ignore them and follow the thread despite them.

It's become a game. As somebody said yesterday (another of my Beloved Razorbabies too numerous to remember by name) it's interesting to watch trolls self-destruct when ignored. They just keep reverting and reverting like in a psychotic breakdown

(Ever seen one? They're FAR less dramatic than on TV and ALWAYS reveal a horrifically infantile personality base of lifelong feelings of inadequacy, resentment, rage and determined ignorance often surrendered to an authoritative life-matrix like a religion -- all in one magnificent though sometimes violent trantrum. Only, they're "Adults").

They're TYPING on a fucking BLOG in VIRTUAL reality and don't know the difference!

Psst! Wanna have some fun?

Next time a troll drops an adolescent Kiddie-Bomb in here, let it lie there unanswered. Un-replied to.

Then watch.

With each increasingly angry, desperate, noisy plea for attention from a presumed adult . . . just let their remarks lie there on the blog -- flat -- for all to see.

Unanswered. Un-replied to.

It may require strength and fortitude on your part, if you're used to having your chain jerked.

Consider this an exercise in self-awareness, personal growth and soul-strengthening you'd pay $3K a week for to shrinks at the Betty Ford Clinic. If your insurance covered it.

But do your best to let trolls lie there and just observe what happens.

We can ALL see who does and doesn't bother to engage trolls here -- and who does and why.

Really, for the most part (there are always exceptions) we who "don't" have to wonder, WHY?

For the most part, engagement with trolls = enabling.

And we all want them to get better.

Lest our insurance goes up.

How about holding the next town hall meeting at the state mental hospital. The patients there would appreciate the entertainment and might even feel some kinship with those speaking about their fears, delusions, and paranoia.

No one ever mentioned who paid the bills for the sick and dying children treated at ACH. No one.

Why don't you clean up the waste in Medicare and Medicade first and then put these "uninsurred" there instead of creating a system that is doomed to fail? But fact of the matter it is it isn't about helping people but who is in control, that my fine Liberal friends is what this is all about!

I have a inside source at the Arkansas Times and I can get a list of posters and I intend to seperate the Liberals out and forward those names to the White House Disinformation email address......gee this could be fun turning a Liberal weapon againist the Obamites...let the investigations begin!!!

Actually, the biggest causes of Medicare waste are the drug companies and private insurers. Switching to a single-payer system would eliminate that waste.

The House Oversight Committee issued a report documenting $95 Billion in past and potential health care waste and windfall profits, as well as 15,000 unnecessary deaths that single payer health care and state regulatory improvements could have eliminated.

Waste from Medicare Part D Switch to Private Insurers: $75 billion. Unlike traditional Medicare, which is run directly by the government, the new Medicare Part D prescription drug program depends on private insurers to provide drug coverage to Medicare beneficiaries. A report released by the Committee in October 2007 found that the use of private insurers to deliver Medicare drug coverage is driving up costs and producing only limited savings on drug prices. The report found that taxpayers and Medicare Part D beneficiaries could have saved almost $15 billion in 2007 - and could save more than $75 billion over the next five years - by reducing administrative expenses and drug prices.

Drug Expenses for Dual Eligible Beneficiaries: $3.7 billion. With the advent of Medicare Part D, individuals who are dual eligible for both Medicare and Medicaid began to receive prescription drugs under the Medicare Part D drug program rather than Medicaid. A report released by the Committee in July 2008 shows that the switch produced a windfall of $3.7 billion dollars to drug manufacturers for the first two years of the Medicare Part D program.

Failure to Implement of Hospital Best Practices: $1 billion. The Committee issued a report in September 2008 on hospital-associated infections. Committee investigators analyzed responses from state hospital associations to ascertain which of them have implemented simple proven practices to prevent central-line-associated bloodstream infections, one of the most prevalent causes of hospital-associated infections. Only 14 states have agreed to these best practices. If the remaining states were to adopt the practices, more than 15,000 lives and $1 billion could be saved annually.

Isn't it interesting that the biggest cause of Medicare waste and fraud are the same people who back the teabaggers and lobby against health care reform??

Watching this video and other videos from other health care town hall meetings, it seems clear to me the biggest objection these "protesters" have is not to heathcare reform, it's to President Obama himself. They just can't get over the fact of a black man sitting in the White house. So, to them I say this: go home and get your white hoods and burning crosses, them come back when you are accurately representing yourselves.

these "teabaggers" are nothing but racists, purely and simply. All they need to do is admit it.

For those that THINK they have health insurance so think they should go against universal health care, you might want to read this about recission, where the insurance companies cut off a person that costs them more than they want to pay, especially the comments. Read the rest of it by clicking on my blue name.

"The House hearings on rescission - the retroactive cancellation of individual health insurance policies - were over a month ago, but after its initial run through Daily Kos it seems to have waited a bit before popping up on Baseline and Slate. James Kwak at Baseline described the practice as rare, affecting only 0.5% of the population. The faint light bulb above my head began to flicker: could that be true.that's not rare - that is amazingly common.

It is. In fact, from Don Hamm's (CEO of Assurant) prepared testimony, with the company logo nicely on the front of it in the original:

Rescission is rare. It affects less than one-half of one percent of people we cover. Yet, it is one of many protections supporting the affordability and viability of individual health insurance in the United States under our current system.

What tangled webs we weave.

To understand why 0.5% of the people Assurant covers is a lot of people - a jarring, terrifying, probably criminal lot - you need to understand a little bit of math. You need to understand just enough math to understand what Don and his legal team are not telling you. You need to understand conditional probability. And the folks at Assurant are counting on the fact that you don't."