Eat Arkansas

Best part of the Post tour is the pallets of 50 lb. bags of sugar waiting to be dumped in the wine.

The fact that these grapes came from UA researchers gives me no confidence. They are the people who created the inedible shipper tomatoes.

The Cynthianna is actually a pretty good wine. One thing to look for on any local bottle of wine are the words "Altus" or "American". Any wine with the American label has at least a portion of the grapes coming from somewhere else.

As much as I'd love to have wonderful wines from my home state, our climate just is not geared to growing good wine grapes. Wine loves hot days, but really needs cool nights for the sugars to properly set. We'll never see wines that can come close to matching California, Oregon, Washington, Australia, New Zealand, France, Spain, Italy or even Canada.

Now, as to the comment about anything bred by the U of A being unfit to consume due to the shipper tomatoes, they have come up with some really tasty fruits over the years. The blackberries are the prefered varieties, and their table grapes are the best you'll ever taste. Try Mars, Venus, Reliant, and especially Jupiter table grapes if you ever get a chance.

The Cynthiana (or Norton) grape is a hybrid variety created in Virgina in the 1820-1830 range. It grows well in Arkansas. Of grapes, it probably produces the best grape wine from Arkansas.

Also, the Muscadine is very native to Arkansas and produces decent wine.

Here's where the old Altus resident hat comes into play.

There are a few other varieties that grow hardily in the Altus region. Tonitown has some colder nights and some varieties grow much better there than they do on top of the mountain in Altus. If it says "Arkansas" on the variety label, it probably came from Tonitown or another grape growing area in the Ozarks. There are some varieties that are hardy in other regions of the state, but they won't produce high quality wine, but can be made into juice.

All the grapes in Altus have to come from a belt north of the Catholic Church and south of the freeway, with west and east bounds defined by where the mountain ends. Wiederkehr's tried in the 1960's to grow grapes in the Arkansas River bottoms south of Altus , but they failed miserably - it is a few degrees too warm there at night. That demonstrates how precise the growing conditions are in Altus - literally there are places where grapes will grow perfect on one side of the road and very poorly on the other. Also, last year was a bad year for wine in Arkansas -- much (90+%) of the crop was lost to the Easter Sunday (2007) freeze event, so much of the wine was created from import grapes.

Also for those who like fruit wines that are not grape, Mount Bethel has some very good wines (Blackberry, Strawberry, and an excellent Elderberry) that you may like. I do not know if they are easily found in Little Rock however. At Grape Fest one of the current Wiederkehr employees commented their number one seller in Pulaski County is White Port (Fortified Wine, exceptionally cheap). Go figure.

Two Questions:

I really don't understand what is meant by "This isn't your processing system of old. Instead of heavy oak casks of a century ago, wines now age at near freezing temperatures..."

Is this meant two imply that the Post winery doesn't employ heavy oak casks??? The vineyard I toured in CA a year ago swears up and down by oak- and not just the oak itself- but the variety of oak. People pay a lot of money to import French oak, for example, because like all wines aged in oak casks, the oak lends a beautiful flavor to the grape. Everything I've read about wine suggests that the most highly trained noses and palates can determine which type of oak the wine aged in by detecting particular notes in the wine. It was just a little unclear- and my understanding is that there is nothing archaic about using oak casks to age wine. I would say it is the preferred method by the states that produce wine people actually drink and seek out (unlike AR).

Also, "by committing themselves to experimentation and research, the Post Familie may come up with the grape variety that will be the signature wine grape of the century."

Um. What?!? What is this alleged grape? That's a really bold statement and needs more elaboration. The signature wine grape for what? The world? I'm sorry, but they can't be serious if that's what they actually mean.

I dig that they're going green and working towards certifying their grapes as organic. But I have to emphatically agree with pollen, who says, "our climate just is not geared to growing good wine grapes. We'll never see wines that can come close to matching California, Oregon, Washington, Australia, New Zealand, France, Spain, Italy or even Canada." That is SPOT ON.

That's the bottom line. I'm not trying to be a traitor to this state or whatever, but the AR wines I've tasted are complete and total crap. But I have to ask, does any one actually buy this stuff?

Never seen a Post Familie or Wiederkehr on a wine menu in my life, thankfully. Or in a wine cellar.

And does anyone else care to discuss what role these wine producers play in our market and the fact that AR is one on a narrow list of states that does not allow the consumer to have the oh-so-fabulous wines from the west coast shipped across state lines? I think it's bullsh*t. And for what? Really?

Their wine is seriously terrible.

And if you're a wine lover, you owe it to yourself to check out someone who is trying shake things up in the AR wine biz and steer this state a bit more out of its comfort zone and into the direction of celebrating more obscure vineyards and wine producers.

And trust me, you'd be wise to take his advice on wine- he knows it like the back of his hand. In fact, some of you, at one point in your life, have probably been served a glass of wine or two by him.

Copy and paste link below:
leeedwardsdistributing.com

"And does anyone else care to discuss what role these wine producers play in our market and the fact that AR is one on a narrow list of states that does not allow the consumer to have the oh-so-fabulous wines from the west coast shipped across state lines? I think it's bullsh*t. And for what?"

M-o-n-e-y.

Arkansas producers and distributors will fight this all the way.

Yeah, Lew. I know you're totally right.

I just hate the missed opportunities. That's all. Carrying wine on a plane just to get it home is a hassle.

And I don't feel that outside parties should be making those decisions for me.

Hang onto your panties, there, JenJens... I can quite well elaborate.

Post does NOT age in oak casks. Talking with Joseph extensively that afternoon, I found that the family's position on the matter is that the oak doesn't contribute a whole lot to the flavor of wine. Hard alcohol? Sure. I've been out to the Jack Daniels Distillery in Tennessee, and the charcoaling of certain woods is what gives it that particular taste. But for wines, you're looking at a flavor that comes from the grape itself, not from an outside flavoring element (flavored fruit wines notwithstanding). At Post, gigantic surgical steel tub drums are used instead. This also cuts down on the risk of anything bacterial coming up and causing havok (since they're kept at extremely low temperatures). The tub drums are also a hell of a lot easier to clean and disinfect.

Concerning experimentation for new varietals of grape -- do you like Vidal? Vignoles? Where do you think the grapes for these fine wines came from? They didn't pop up naturally, that's for sure. They're cross-breeds of different Vitis species. Oenologists will continue to work on developing new grapes for several reason -- taste is just one. There's also hardiness, breeding to climate, improving sugars and tannins, and building natural resistance to pests and disease. This work is similar to what rose breeders have been doing for centuries to bring forth gorgeous blooms of so many colors. It's also how many of our field grains have been improved to create a bigger yield per acre. There's nothing weird or wrong about that -- cross-breeding and cross-pollinating plants has been done since long before Christ was born.

And note the use of the word "may." The Posts aren't claiming they've come up with the SuperGrape -- they're just trying to find the best grapes for winemaking in Arkansas. I believe they're perfectly serious about that.

As far as your assessment of Arkansas wines being "crap," that's your personal opinion and bias. I may not be a certified sommelier -- in fact, I know I'm nowhere close. But I prefer many of the Arkansas wines to wines I've tried elsewhere. Maybe it's because I'm from here -- and there is a certain brand of Ayurvedic logic that holds you get along best with foods that grow from the soil you came from (this is another discussion for a coffeehouse night, not here at this time) that may influence my tastes. Maybe it's because I am particularly fond of the muscadine -- which I hear is beneath some more "cultured" tastes. One way or another, I wholeheartedly support the rationale that Arkansas wines are pretty damn good.

As far as the whole argument goes on the ability of Arkansans to purchase out-of-state wines -- I suppose it never occured to you that the same law actually hinders the growth of market for Arkansas wineries. That same law prohibits Post, Wiederkehr, Mount Bethel, Chateaux aux Arc, St. John's, Cowie -- all of them! -- from exporting by mail to other states. It's not Arkansas wineries that benefit from that old bit of legislation -- it's the distributors who can truck these wines across state lines and collect their commissions and profits. You may not find Arkansas wines in many restaurants, but you'll sure as heck find them in almost every Arkansas liquor store (and many grocery stores, too).

Concerning the lack of availability of Arkansas wines in Arkansas restaurants -- this may also have a lot ot do with the state law and distributors. I know not. I do know that Kelt's in Altus does offer several sorts of local wines -- but distribution there could be as easy as running down the hill with a trunk full of bottles. I have been offered Arkansas wines at hotels and B&Bs in our state and at Mount Magazine Lodge's fantastic restaurant. But honestly, I'm not much of a dinner hour wine drinker -- so my familiarity with wine lists is limited. However, I must thank those who have written me today with giving me a quest. I have received six different communiques asking about Arkansas restaurants that serve these wines, and I'm going to work on that. Maybe I'll create a link on my page to restaurants that do serve them.

I have yet to begin elaboration on my own pet peeve here -- the fact that Arkansas wines are locally produced (well, duh) and what that means. Locally produced wine is low on food miles and helps promote the local economy. If we don't do more to promote and protect our local farmers and producers, we could be left with the possibility of having no choice BUT out-of-state wines and products -- which come complete with that nice slice of pay to distributors.

I could go on for quite some time, but I have come to the conclusion that no matter what subject I write on, JenJens will have an issue with it -- be it fried food, burgers, wine, whatever. Some people in this world find great joy in going out of their way to irritate others. I suppose the greatest blessing from this situation is that because of the apparent dislike the subject has for almost anything considered home cooking or of a nature becoming to Arkansas, that I'll never meet this person face-to-face. Of course, how would I know? I don't feel the need to hide behind a screen name in order to share my opinion.

Kat,

I really cannot think of an Arkansas wine I have had that really impressed me. Aux Arc is the best one from my tastings, but it still felt like it had miles to go. I want an Arkansas winery to step up and really produce some excellent wines! But they have not.

Muscadine produces something rather harsh, in my opinion. Not full and robust with that weighty mouth of a sangiovese wine, but almost astringent to me. I've read that muscadine was once used to make port ... now that is where I think that grape would really shine! The joke about all the pallets of sugar goes to the history of making muscadine wines which includes a great deal of chapelization.

I wonder why our wineries have not been patterning themselves off of some of Spain's?

As far as the laws about shipping and the three tier system go, I really have to say little. It is not that easy to explain how we got to the shipping laws we have now;

Kat,
I agree with you 100% on eating local and reducing food mileage. That said, I've been having rough time with finding good Arkansas wine. Cynthiana didn't do it for me, and Wiederkehr's Pinot Grigio was so bad it ranks in my list of Top Five Worst Wine of All Time. I like dry, not-so-sweet wine, so that may be the problem. Do you have any suggestion for someone like me? I don't want to give up on local wine, but I'm coming darn close.

Someone was wondering if Mount Bethel wine can be found in Little Rock. You can find them at Whole Foods.

As for oak, I brew wine at home, and many home recipes don't call for oak. Not sure if this has to do with the fact that home winemakers brew so little.

I tend to go towards sweeter, bold wines -- but then again, that's just me. Have you tried Cowie's Cynthiana? I like how it matches up with a good steak, and it's about as dry as I typically like.

Ah, I didn't read well. Sorry about that. No Cynthiana -- well, my husband is a fan of Mount Bethel's Cabernet Sauvignon. I like it okay, and I also like the Post version (that's our anniversary wine).

Wine is a very picky agricultural product. We simply don't have the climate for many of the better-known wine grapes with the possible exception of Zinfandel. Arkansas wines may not be served at Michelin 3 star restaurants, but that doesn't mean they can't be appreciated for what they ARE. If you visit any of the Arkansas wineries, you'll find really good folks trying to make a quality product and meet a marketplace that doesn't quite understand what they're getting.
Would a pinot grigio from Italy be better than one from Altus? Uh yeah, the Italians have been making it for a thousand years. Anyone making it here is trying to respond to marketplace demands and that takes them away from what they do best.

If you're going to Altus, you should go with the spirit Kat has. An open-minded look at what an area has to offer, not what you want it to be. In particular, if you go to Cowie, you'll learn quite a bit. At one time, Arkansas had a thriving wine industry in all areas of the state. It's a fun excursion, a pretty drive, you'll meet people who care about everything that goes into their product, who are deeply rooted to the area.

No, you won't get the 1000 years of history you would in France, but we whitey's got rid of the original culture here. You won't impress or amaze your friends that you had a 2006 Elderberry at Mt. Bethel (although it's a fascinating wine). But I hold that wine is about enjoyment, not snobbery. And there's a lot at Altus to enjoy.

Chateau Aux Arc (pronounced "ozark") made an exceptional port from muscidines a few years back. It was pricey, but very nice. Now, I enjoy the occasional sweet wine including port and icewines. However, most Arkansas wines are just too sweet for me.

I may seem like a wine snob, but I visit Altus every couple of years in search of a really good wine. I'll keep searching. Post Chardonney is quite drinkable and a good value, but most of the grapes are from somewhere else. I'm still holding out for Aux Arc. I think they have the most potential to make wines that are more to my liking.

Go to a tasting on any day and watch the other customers. 4 out of 5 will mosey up to the bar and say "I want something that's not dry". Talk to any winemaker there and they will say "we'd love to make wines for wine drinkers, but we have to make wines that our customers will drink." Therein lies the rub. Maw and Paw don't drink that dry stuff. The like Big Daddy Port with the racist label. (Mount Bethel's biggest seller.)

So Kat, I'm glad you enjoy local wines. You probably like them somewhat sweeter than I do. Keep drinking and your palate may grow to like them less sweet. I remember the first time I drank a Liebfraumilch. I thought it was so dry I was gonna die. Many years later I never drink something so sweet.

Oh yeah, I'm still holding out for a Muscidine that is drier. I hear Cowie makes one. I love the balance between the big fruit and the acid. There is great potential to make a wine that even us snooty people like. By the way, muscidines are full of oxyalic acids. If you've ever eaten much of the fruit, your lips will swell up after a while. This is the oxylates. Muscidines and their wine should be avoided by anyone who suffers from kidney stones because of this.

Kat

Thank you very much for responding to my questions- I really do appreciate the clarification.

"I found that the family's position on the matter is that the oak doesn't contribute a whole lot to the flavor of wine. "

That is truly surprising to me. It really is. I'm sure there are a thousand arguments to bolster one side or the other, but as I stated previously, I've always understood that the use of oak LENDS to the flavor of the grape itself. The vineyard I toured outside of Healdsburg, CA (Russian River Valley) even went on to elaborate how they char the oak to enhance to the overall results.

"And note the use of the word may." I beg your pardon, but I quoted you directly:

- - - "The Post Familie MAY come up with the grape variety that will be the signature wine grape of the 21st century." - -

Again, I didn't realize you meant for the state of AR, and now that you've cleared the air, I hesitantly suppose it makes more sense. Still sounds like a pipedream to me.

I also appreciate the lesson on crossbred grapes, etc, but you could have spared me that lecture. I'm well aware that wine producers the world over are working on "developing new grapes for several reasons." And if you will note, I never uttered a word about it being "weird or wrong." I understand the concept of crossbreeding for various purposes just fine, thank you.

And I will maintain that AR wines are crap. They just are. I also maintain the idea that you get what you pay for. It's certainly not that I am unsupportive of local products- - you can trust me on this one. When I shop at the Farmer's Market (Little Rock side), I ask each and every vendor whether every potato, tomato, green bean, bell pepper- whatever- was grown in AR soil. If they say "no," then I move on, because it defeats the whole purpose of the Farmer's Market, in my opinion.

I personally think the reasons for the lack of availability of LOCAL wines at LOCAL restaurants is indicative of a lack of popularity and a lack of quality. Maybe irony isn't the appropriate word to use here; but the absence of Post Familie wines, etc, on wine menus from places like Ferneau to Cafe Prego is suggestive of an overall disinterest on the part of restaurant owners. Maybe I'm wrong.

- - - "But I have come to the conclusion that no matter what subject I write on, JenJens will have an issue with it -- be it fried food, burgers, wine, whatever. Some people in this world find great joy in going out of their way to irritate others. " - - -

Excuse you, but you know nothing of me. And it was rather presumptuous and imprudent of you to declare that my purpose on this blog is to irritate people. I don't make assumptions about why you love food and travel (like I do)- I just have things to say in response to your reports. Simple as that. I respond with comments to the content of your blog posts, not to you, the author. What "irritates" me is yet another assumption you make. I'm not "hiding" to "share my opinion." That doesn't even make any sense. The majority of the people who comment on this site use screen names- pollen, EY, JG, anoncow, zaoy- what's the difference? In fact, I've posted several of my own blogs on EAT AR (hint: Alaska), and if you did a little research, you could find a link to the AR Blog with my full name, clear as day.

That being said, I appreciate your report from Altus. I have a lot of passion for food, wine, etc- it should be abundantly clear that I enjoy the hell out of it. Getting the discourse and the debate going over subjects posted on this blog is the point, of course.

But there's no need to make totally absurd and unsubstantiated suppositions about WHO I am. You are in no position to do so. It's meaningless and a waste of everyone's time. Let's talk food instead.

Beg your pardon, but I didn't say you were out to irritate every poster on this forum. Only me. That's my position, and I have every right to feel that way after some of the caustic comments that have been posted on this forum.

Sure you have every right to feel that way, but I'm going to go ahead and disagree. If you interpret my comments as being a personal attack on "only" you, then I'll keep disagreeing.

It's the subject matter. THE SUBJECT MATTER. Not the author. If that's what you're reading into it, then maybe you're reading a little too far into it?

I don't make assumptions about you. If you will notice.

I spent a nice afternoon last year in Altus...took a winery tour, ate at Kelts and had a great time. I even bought a few bottles of wine. One of those being sangria...kind of took me back to my college days.

JenJens...the answer to your question from another post is Dgo. Lived there five years or so. Guided a bit, fished all the time, made great friends but the struggle of making a living in a tourist town finally beat me. I pretty much grew up in AR...moved away for a number of years and found myself living here again. Arkansas really has so much to offer. I wish people would quit throwing trash out the window, dumping crap and take a little more pride in the "natural state". You've got to go out and find it but it's all here if you know what I mean.
I'm a firm believer that land prices up in NWA are going to skyrocket once people in CO get tired of it being overrun with Texans and Californians. Dgo isn't the same now as it was a few years ago and neither are the cool towns like Boulder and Telluride. I tend to judge towns in CO by the number of stoplights...not by the number of bagel shops. Anyway...I could go on and on.
Where were you?

BTW.ate at Lulav the other day. Impressed!

Jen, I think what Kat is responding to (as indeed, I have as well) is your tone. There is a huge difference in reading "the Arkansas wines I've tasted are total crap" and "I haven't found an AR wine I like yet". If the reader likes AR wine, you've just told them that they like "total crap". Maybe that shouldn't be "felt" as a personal attack, but without tone of voice, body language, etc, text tends to read more harshly than the spoken word. (Which, I'm very sure you know.) Let me say, I'm guilty of being shrill in blog posts and email every day. I'm certainly not saying I'm perfect. Just passing along a little feedback.

I guess I'm just a dumb Arkie who likes Arkansas and muscadine wines. I buy and drink Post's white and red muscadine and their Ives Noir.

Of course, greater authorities than JenJen have stated that the number one rule of wine is to drink what you like. Keep that in mind when you are talking to a wine snob.

EY-

I hear what you're saying. But that's how I choose to express myself. I know it comes across as harsh, but to me, it's the truth. If I say, "I really don't prefer wines produced in AR, etc, etc"- - then I feel like I'm compromising my personal feelings for the sake of appeasing others. I don't know if that makes any sense.

Besides, it's just the word "crap." It certainly could have been said in a much worse way, and frankly, I don't think the word "crap" is that offensive. But to each their own, eh?

And for the sake of argument: "If the reader likes AR wine, you've just told them that they like "total crap". That's the same as saying, "My favorite hockey team is the Colorado Avalanche," and some one responding in protest, "F*ck the Avs. The Avs suck. The Red Wings kick their asses."

Well- - - so what? That's OK for people to say that. Trust me when I say the words b/twn hockey fans are certainly more heated and laced with profanity.

It's just a difference of opinion, and besides, when you enter the public arena (posting your own blog), you should be prepared to hear positive and negative feedback without batting an eyelash- don't you think?

I could make the argument that Max probably doesn't often get his feelings hurt when everyone's favorite blogger, chasv, tells Max and everyone else posting comments on the AR Blog that they are going to burn in hell for eternity for their pro-gay rights, etc, etc, etc- You know what I mean?

Either way, thank you for the feedback!

Dude

Much to say a/b CO. So much to say. More later.

Lived in Boulder for 6 years. Went to CU. Love Durango. Took the Durango-Silverton (is that correct?- can't exactly remember- such a long time ago) train when I was very little and fell in love with CO at first glance.

So glad you liked Lulav! Really thought you would.

As a restaurant person here in Little Rock let me say that we have tried to sell Arkansas wines, Chateau Aux Ark in particular, without much luck. Most independent restaurants don't have the cash available or the room to store wines that do not sell. As much as we would love to have that luxury it just doesn't always work out that way.

For what it is worth. I liked the article. And I do not think anything is wrong with liking AR wines. I think some people just like to cause trouble. And I see that JenJens can put out a lot of trash talk but not take it. I am going to go hunt me up some Post wine now. Those grapes looked good.

For what it is worth. I appreciated the article, too. In fact, I said this much if you actually read anything I said. I also never, ever, said that there was anything wrong with liking AR wine. Nothing even remotely close to it. If you read anything I said.

I guess I was wrong. I thought that was sarcasm.

Food Dude,

Since we're on the topic of wine anyhow, were you not totally impressed by Lulav's wine menu??? I think they even call it a "Wine "Program," which is even more hardcore. At least they did last time I was there.

I was there for lunch so didn't a chance to look it over. I dig kind of poke around and looked at the tasting room or whatever that nice looking room in the back is called.
To tell you the truth I'm not much of a wine snob. I'm more of a whiskey and gin guy. I enjoy wine and I like what I like but really quite inexperienced. Although..I've been drinking the hell out of the Crane Lake Merlot lately. It's like $4 a bottle and quite drinkable in my opinion (which ain't saying too much)...I'd be curious what you'd think about it...try it if you haven't. Another favorite is the La Crema Pinot Grigio...for times when I'm feeling above my means.

Opps...meant Pinot Noir. Don't think I've had the Pinot Grigio.

One more thing.
The calamari at Lulav was awesome! I think it beats Sonny Williams...and I thought their's was the best in town.
The lunch at Lulav was very reasonable! Highly suggested...great service...it was all I could do not to order a glass of wine!

Thanks for the recommendation!

Crane Lake makes a quite passable Petit Syrah as well. A real good value for $4.

Food Dude,

I'm stoked you liked Lulav so much. Just think: they're moving into the venue that Velo Rouge (boring!) occupied. I think the prospects of the new space might do wonders for their business. I sure as hell hope it does.

Hmmm... Never heard of Crane Lake, although I think La Crema makes a pretty mean Pinot Noir. And to clarify- I know lots of people cry "snobbery" on this blog- - - but I have to admit, I find it a little frustrating to be opinionated and be accused of being a snob.

I mean - - - can't you just REALLY know what you like? Can't that be acceptable? Just a question. (That's definitely less directed at you than others on this blog, by the way)- -

Either way, the world of wine is a fascinating one. It's like trying to learn everything there is to know about Math. It's infinite and seemingly endless. And they way wine can enhance food????

Almost brings tears to my eyes, it's so damn good.

THE way wine enhances food, I meant.

Friday= Vermillion for drinks with my insane, but impossibly loveable co-workers.

Of course you can really know what you like and you can be honest and true to yourself about it. But when it comes across as very in your face and more appropriate to a hockey blog than this one, you're going to be called on it.

Glad Lulav impressed, FD. They also have a terribly well stocked bar. As much as I do love wine, cocktails are my true beverage passion (after coffee).

I want a real Port out of an Arkansas winery. Not a cheap, throwaway, fortify and hide the flavor bottle but one I want to break out the firs tnight we finally dip below freezing and pour a little flute. Oh, well. I also really need to try some of the berry wines they are making here. I have not gotten to and I am curious to put them side by side with some of the lambic beers. FD, You are right about the Crane Lake. It is a remarkably drinkable wine. It has not become a standard table wine, but it is definitely on the drinkable list.

TIme will pass. Perhaps we will find the grape best suited to our soil. In the meantime, I hope the local vineyards improve continually and start to push our local wines a bit more.

Oh, I need to send in the Post script to the Pork Loin week one of these days. Maybe tomorrow. Eat and drink well people.

Ok...

Mrs. Barnett-Reed, er... JenJens (just my own intuition, correct me if I'm wrong), while you have every right to your opinions, and have been known to expound on them in great detail, I have noted you seem particularly apt to find fault with Kat's posts.
Not everyone is quite so high on their own horse as you. I am a well-educated, literate and literary Arkansan, and I have found myself enjoying the occasional Arkansas wine. You may not. I like a good piece of fried fish from time to time (fish and chips at Cregeen's is a thing of beauty...). You don't have to agree. And as for Barbecue... well, if pork is a sin, I'm the conductor on the express train to Hell. Enjoy your condo in Heaven.
At any rate, yes, JenJens, you have every right to your opinion. But try and be gracious to we mere mortals who sometimes stoop to less lofty culinary heights. I can enjoy a fine pot-au-feu, a salad of fresh, local wild greens, even a fine French wine. But not all food must be perfection, and to imply that the enjoyment of less healthy foods from time to time is a great evil is just silly. I would instead recommend another time-honored Southern tradition- if you can't find something nice to say, don't say anything at all. With that in mind, I hope you have a good day, and take this friendly criticism in the spirit in which it is given.

Quick correction... I think I was wrong about the identity of JenJens. My commentary, however, still stands.

My apologies to Mrs. Barnett-Reed.

Joel, try the Reserve Robert's Port from Cowie. Might be hard to get retail around here and they're out from Altus, but it is very good. I've had icewine from Post and it was interesting. I'm not much of an icewine person, but it was good.

As I am a friend of Jennifer Barnett Reed's, I can unequivocally say she's not JenJens, and it's pretty crappy for you to try and "out" somebody, even if they do have their real names linked somewhere here. It's just bad form on most blogs.

Back on topic: Post wine gives me heartburn (probably because of the aformentioned addition of sugar to the wine), Robert's Port from Cowie is really good (and won a national award a few years ago) and on the whole, Arkansas wines in general don't do much for me because I like big, dry wines for the most part.

That said, as a board member of the Historic Arkansas Wine Museum (which anyone who loves history and/or wine should visit and support), I have to say that I'm proud of our native winemakers for carrying on such a cool tradition for generations. One thing that is evident in all of the wineries I've visited is the love these families have for the tradition, the wine and the vineyards. We have such a rich and varied history of winemaking in this state, and I'm glad it hasn't died out.

And to torture myself because I can't drink wine right now, here are some of my favorite just drinking wines:
Marietta Old Vines Red #37
Lindeman Bin 65 Chardonnay
Beckman Vineyard Cuvee le Bec
Marco Negri Muscato D'Asti
7 Deadly Zins

What's everyone else's?

Ok- so I'm new to posting here but have been lurking for a while now and I wanted to just throw a bit of support here to JenJens. Your comments are the reason I come here (seriously). It's easy to tell that you love food and drink, and it's easy to tell you know both.

I also wanted to chime in on the wine thing. I'm a transplant from California where oak barrel fermenting is generally known as a way of imparting flavor to wines (actually, I've never heard of anyone suggesting otherwise). Now, some people don't like the richness, the buttery, butterscotch and vanilla notes that this second fermentation process lends to Chardonnays. I get that. I love them though. I'll give you my favorite at the moment: White Oak Chardonnay is tremendous (especially, I think, with chilled trout).

I've seen a lot of folks jumping down your throat JenJens and referring to wine snobbery (or just snobbery-- I read the stuff asking for your favorite restaurants after you gave Loca Luna a C. By the way, I ate there a few days after you posted that and I completely agree.) Many of the arguments hurled against you are straw men and don't pass the sniff test. These slams smack of insularity and a worry to criticize Arkansas (that's a shame because critique makes stuff better). That goes for the Arkansas wine industry too. As a side note, the claim that Arkansas wine does poorly outside of the state because of the shipping law is laughable. Maybe I misread that.

Anyway, I wanted to let you know that you have some fans, JenJens. I'll keep reading what you post (and my wife and I have agreed to try all the places you listed that we haven't yet been to- except maybe cafe prego).

Cheers

I dont think anyone would jump down JenJens throat if she didn't do it to others first. If she did not want comments on how rude she was, she shouldn't have said what she did about that article.

How do you all feel about flavored wines? I like that Strawberry Fields wine that is at the store now. It is cheap but it is also very tasty.

JG I'm right there with you on the 7 Deadly. Unfortunately, the 7 Heavenly isn't so good. Just like White Truck isn't as good as Red Truck. I always say that whatever is in my glass at the moment always has a shot at being my favorite wine. So I guess it's
River Aeire Reisling (tonight, anyway)
Cline Cashmere
Conundrum
Coppola Claret (Black label)
Rosa di Rosa (Or Bianca)
Shug Cabernet
Turkey Flat Rose
Anything by Mat Garrison
Anything by Ron Bunnell

"The Cynthiana (or Norton) grape is a hybrid variety created in Virgina in the 1820-1830 range. It grows well in Arkansas. Of grapes, it probably produces the best grape wine from Arkansas."

Oh, thank you, thank you anoncow!

Back in 60s when I would travel to home and back 3x year from Fayetteville I would stop by Wiederkehr and pick up a case of Cythiana. It went so well with weekend brownies and hash. My friends loved it, mostly because it was free.
.

EY -- love Conundrum and the Coppola Claret as well. Just wich the Conundrum weren't so darn expensive.

EY - the only port worth a damn from Arkansas comes from Bob Cowie. You'll be hard pressed to find it in Little Rock (or almost anywhere outside of Logan/Franklin counties and the city of Fort Smith) however, I don't think he has much in terms of access to the three-tier system like the Post cartel (Post & Chateau Aux Arc) and Wiederkehr's given his low production volume. That said, you're seeing more Mount Bethel which is a good thing in my book. More of that branch of the Post tree serves the wine industry better, as they tend to be more craft oriented in their work compared to Post Familie, which just keeps cranking cheap wine for WM.

The thing about Bob is that he puts the time and effort into the grapes you get in Arkansas to get really good wine out of them (which is a must to get a good port or most dry reds, many sweet grape wines are easy because you can always add lots of sugar to mask things at the end - these guys buy cane sugar by the pallet & truckload), which Post/Wiederkehr's won't because they are better served financially by making those 'good enough', and spending time on producing as much cheap wine (which sells like hot cakes) or super-expensive Cynthiana as possible.

eLWood - "Back in 60s when I would travel to home and back 3x year from Fayetteville I would stop by Wiederkehr and pick up a case of Cythiana. It went so well with weekend brownies and hash. My friends loved it, mostly because it was free. "

That stuff's now $250+ a case. Mighty pricey in my book, but then again I'm a beer man with a wine background.

JenJens - the no shipping over state lines is an effect of the distributors (Glazer's, Moon) and liquor stores wanting full control (and thus the profits) of what is sold in the state, not the wineries. The distributors and liquor stores have much more clout with lawmakers (thanks to big profits from monopolies) about wine laws. Call and talk to one of the small wineries (Cowie, Mount Bethel) and ask their opinion on it. I think Max and others (ADG, etc) have had articles about the shipping situation and how the wineries would like to see ship restrictions revoked (so they can ship to customers in markets like California, which this will shock you but some people there may want wines from here).

On the shipping issue: here's an ADG article on this issue that came out of the 2007 Leg. Session: http://www.nwanews.com/adg/National/187717

Article puts blame on sales taxes (big shocker) and the "think of the children" crowd for it, along with distributors wanting a cut of everything.

Click on my name for another story about Cowie and also the legal fight over native wineries and the three=tier system.

If I recall correctly, Cowie has a Cynthiana that I think is better than the rest and fairly reasonably priced. It's worth the drive out to his winery -- he and his wife, Bette Kay, also have a bed and breakfast at the winery. They're one of the lovliest, most down-to-earth couples I've ever met.

I'm not sure if you all know this or not, but wine is super cheap in California compared to here. I know part of this is the tax we pay here in AR, but I went through sticker shock when we moved. I'll give you an example. I regularly paid 6 to 8 bucks for wine that costs about 11 to 15 dollars here. And don't get me started on the sparkling wine (Domaine Chandon is 8 dollars more here, J winery is 12 dollars more, Domaine Carneros is 10 dollars more, etc.) Gotta love Trader Joe's. So, again, I just find it pretty hard to believe that Arkansas wine would do well in a state that is used to high quality and extremely reasonable prices. And in terms of the low quality wines, 2 buck chuck has the market cornered on that one. I wasn't fond of it, but I used to see folks walking out with a case of it every time I went in (for 24 bucks!).

Maybe it would do better in parts of the Midwest (or wherever there isn't a Trader Joe's). Anyway, I am on board with repealing that shipping restriction so that I can get good wine at decent prices again!

Post cynthiana is about $10, Wiederkehr is up towards $20.

Now, argueing about tastes in wine is like argueing about just about everything else. Music, food, religion, politics, TV shows, movies, whatever, nobody's gonna sway anyone over to the other side. The best we can do is inform others of our opinions, and maybe if someone tilts our way, they might take a suggestion to try something that they feel they may also like. If you like sweet "value" wines then you may also like Strawberry Fields (especially if you can pay someone to buy it for you outside the Quickie Mart). If you like big fat reds then you may be interested in something that someone has tasted and didn't cost a fortune.

JenJens has opinions, and he/she is obviously passionate about his/her likes. Sometimes people with strong opinions can seem brash and condescending. This is a side-effect of passion. I respect (and typically agree) with his/her take on foods and use this information accordingly. Perhaps the tone can seem a bit strident. I don't think this person intends to offend or berate.

I also enjoy the occasional fried food even though I know it gives my ateries a hard-on. All things in moderation. I should be riding my bike or slinging rocks in my garden right now, but I'm clacking on my keyboard in the near dark.

Back to the original post about Post. They make wines for their market. I'm sure that there are people in California who would love these wines, just like there are people here who don't really care for them. Our wine regs are controled by the distributors and they've convinced the lege that mail-order would lead to underage people receiving wines. I guess it never dawned on them in all of their infinite wisdom that shipping wine is very expensive and not something that is done so they can get loaded tonight. Mail-order wine would never impact the local distributors or stores. It would only serve a small niche for people who fell in love with a particular winery on a trip and can not obtain this wine locally.

I was in Oregon a few years back and knew I had to taste several Pinot Noirs while there. I didn't bother visiting the big guns, because I could buy those here. I visited the small Mom and Pop places and bought a few bottles here and there. I'd love to be able to order the occasional bottle, even though most are well above my budget (especially with shipping). Remember, if shipping wine, do so when it's not hot outside, because wine is a living thing and high temps in warehouses, delivery trucks, and front porches will ruin your wine. By the way, Torii Mor outside McMinville was my favorite winery. A beautiful little room on a hillside full of grapes with a Japanese garden outside. Lovely people who love their craft and several pinots from different fields and years, as well as a couple of huge cats to greet visitors. They also gladly told me some of their favorite wineries in the area.

Until the archaic Alcoholic Beverage Laws are updated to reflect a 'free' Society there continue to be a limit on the Wines available to those that might wish to have a bottle sent to their home.

My understanding is that even the most prominent be=usiness men in our State cannot get this through the powers that be in the Capitol...

...just sayin'

Pollen,

At the risk of pushing this too far, I wanted to clarify that I wasn't saying that there wouldn't be folks in California who would like Arkansas wine- just that the product wouldn't sell well in a market where very solid quality is expected at 6 dollars a bottle (think 10 to 12 here). If they priced their product at 4 dollars out there, it might sell, but my sense is that this would be pretty low for most wineries here. I don't know- maybe I'm wrong about whether they would be willing to price it that low. As a point of reference, many of the Australian, German, and Italian wines can be had for 5 to 8 dollars a bottle at Trader Joe's.

By the way, I have a chef friend who has been hounding me to visit Oregon for a few years now because of what they are doing up there with food and drink. It sounds amazing.

A great deal of the price difference you see here has to do with the taxes at every level. Yet another fun aspect of being in the Bible Belt. Alcohol makes you sin, so slap a "sin tax" on it and you'll price it out of the range of those who can't handle it.

It's actually worse if you're a private club because you have to buy your booze retail (at a store you've specified and turned in paperwork on) and THEN add the booze tax, liquor by the drink tax, etc.

The larger distributors and some larger liquor stores are very much against relaxing the laws. Incidentally, smaller distributors (one anyway) are not. One small distributor I know is all for allowing consumers to get shipments. He figures that some folks will get tired of paying shipping and will come to him and other small distributors and ask them to carry newly-found wines so they can just drop by the store to get them. Every time there is talk of Faulkner County getting any damper than we already are, the anti- side gets a big cash infusion....from Lake Liquor.

(god help me) I don't have anything to say about the original topic at hand but here I go, opening my big mouth. I find it strange that Kat posted about feeling personally attacked because there are times when I've read Jens comments regarding Kats blogs and thought - "wow, that's hardcore. Is there anything Kat writes about that Jen actually likes?" Yes, I do agree that when posting something in a public forum you should be prepared for both positive & negative responses, however, I don't agree that one needs to, or can, separate the comments from being an attack on the written contribution as opposed to the writer them self. Whether it is intended or not, when the writing is criticized, so is the writer.

Yep, thats all I got. Oh - and this...

August 14 - "That's the bottom line. I'm not trying to be a traitor to this state or whatever, but the AR wines I've tasted are complete and total crap. But I have to ask, does any one actually buy this stuff?"

August 15 - "For what it is worth. I appreciated the article, too. In fact, I said this much if you actually read anything I said. I also never, ever, said that there was anything wrong with liking AR wine. Nothing even remotely close to it. If you read anything I said."

I think the first comment was pretty 'remotely close'. In fact I'd go so far as to say that was implied.

bonvivant - Even at 4 dollars a bottle, the cost of shipping wine (UPS/FedEx require some extra service fees for this since it is Adult Signature Required and the USPS won't touch it plus it isn't light by any means, a fact the liquor distributors forget when home shipping comes up), you'd still be getting cheaper wine at the local store. I would almost guarantee more wine would come in than would go out.

Wellwood - I agree. I figure there are plenty of very rich, very powerful persons in Little Rock, probably with last names like Stephens, who want this changed. The liquor lobby is too powerful since they usually sign up the right churches to their views.

EY - I have a feeling hell will freeze over before Faulkner County becomes wet, much like all the other counties in the LR-NLR-Conway metro area sans Pulaski County.

After reading the responses, all I have to say is that I found Kat's article very informative. Altus is one of the few regions of the state that has missed my travels, and reading her blog makes me want to visit those areas even more. it's nice to learn about what to look forward to when I ever next get a chance to travel there.

for the record, I have tried many arkansas wines, and I find them a refreshing change from the varitable sameness of wines from around the world. oh sure, wines from around the globe may have their unique nuances, but in the greater scheme of things, after going through several bottles of pinot, or cabernet over a period of time, the overwhelming monotany is there just the same.

I like the concept of partaking of native wines while dining in a state. I've had several opportinities, in the course of my travels, to sample the local favorite wines while dining there. The last time I was able to dine in Louisiana, for example, I had an opportunity to sample a couple of local vintages while enjoying a meal of etoufee, and boudin sausage. The experience was unique, and I highly recommend, while traveling abroad, to seek out those hidden gems and try them. Trying the local flavor gave me a deeper connection with the area I was visiting, and I appreciated what I considered a little slice of unique state culture.

I've tried Post and Weidakers(sp?) and found them nice for what they were ,and I really like post's muscadine wines as I have a sweet tooth. Yet, I never knew that Arkansas produced an elderberry wine until I read Tye Dye Travels, and now my curiosity has been piqued to locate said vintage for my parusal. thank you Kat for enlightening this weary traveler on the path to something new.

As far as alcohol and politics go.....Arkansas is one of the last remaining states to be brought kicking and screaming into the 21st century. It's just par for the course here in the bible belt, and probably will not change as long as the states government can draw a hefty tax revenue from alochol sales. But I will heartily agree with Kat by saying.....In todays increasingly inflated economy, it's a far far better adventure to partake of the joys and wonder of your local cuisine and vintages, than to spend a fortune eating somewhere else far far away.

Try Post's Traditional Red, very enjoyable quaffer, not expensive, dry red wine. Also the tip on Crane Lake is really on target, the Sangiovese is particularly good. It sells for $3.99 at Neighborhood Liquor in NLR or you can try it on a dinner cruise aboard the ARKANSAS Queen river boat for $19.99, but they don't have any ARKANSAS wines on board.

CORRECTION:

I was just informed that Lulav is ONLY considering the venue that Velo Rouge used to occupy. Not a sure thing- I was misinformed and I apologize for the error.

And to Bonvivant- all I can say is thanks a million times over. I'm glad there are a few voices out there that understand my perspective and have the ability to perceive them for what they are and what they are not: they are opinions. I seriously appreciate what you said.

And on the note of the beautiful, butterscotchy, vanilla-ey flavor that oak lends to a Chardonnay- - is there anything better? I've only started to come around to whites, but I first fell in love with a beautiful 2005 Hess Chardonnay in Seattle served with fresh oysters. I agree with you regarding everything you said about aging wine in oak. Period.

And to Wyldfire (sp?), poor form on trying to point the finger just for the sake of blame, but at least you corrected yourself. I, too, am a friend of Jennifer Barnett Reed and although I am certain she would find this mildly funny, this is a damn blog, not the game of Clue.

And to all the naysayers- naysay away. Just look at the number of comments posted. I think it's awesome.

I'm glad so many people jumped in and joined the conversation.

I know this isn't about wine and I'll say it again. This place needs a FORUM!

I have to rant on something I saw at lunch.

I'm in the line to pay for my food at Vino's. There's a cook making pizza, salads and working the ovens. While he is doing all that he is also eating a slice of pizza.between bites he drops the half eaten slice on the prep/cutting board. This is the SAME board that they put your pizza on when making the pie or cutting the pizza's. Not too mention he was wiping his mouth with the back of his hand then continuing to make salads and pizza. So every time a pizza is pulled from the oven or laid out on the prep table it's laying right on top of where this guy's half eaten slice has been.
Fugging grossed me out big time! Needless to say I wish I hadn't seen that. Vino's was one of my favorite pizza places and has been for years but now I am so grossed out it will be a while before I ever go back.if ever. I've worked in a couple of pizza joints and they are all usually a bit lax but damn.that's a bit much for me.
Thanks guy for totally ruining my lunch and what was my favorite hole in the wall pizza place!

Food Dude-

That is totally disgusting. I would have left. I know we're sort of a germophobic society- - I am a prime example- - but that is really unprofessional, unsanitary and unappetizing.

I'm pretty much stopped eating there after the moment I sat down and noticed a cockroach crawling across my table. And before someone else says it: Yes. Yes, I realize that there are very old buildings in this town that are more prone to manifestations, of sorts, than others. But I really don't care. There's nothing that makes me want to eat less than the sight of a cockroach, or perhaps, some slack-ass punk "scenester" who wipes the back of his mouth while preparing food.

Totally unacceptable.

"I've worked in a couple of pizza joints and they are all usually a bit lax but damn.that's a bit much for me. " - FoodDude

I think they all are. I was at Larry's Pizza on Hwy 10 on Saturday and went up for a refill. The guy, instead of using the scoop, just puts my well drank out of glass back into the ice bin to fill it up, something you're not really supposed to do with a clean one. I have a good mind to call them into the Health Department.

I think people are clicking on this post because it is about the Post Familie, not because they are members of the JenJens fan club. Please get a life.

Geyer Springs Gal...
I'm not sure who your post was meant for but so far every post you have made on this thread has been about JenJens and now you are telling folks to get a life? You've internet stalked for three or four days now. Telling folks to get a life is more than a little ironic don't ya think?

Dear Food Dude,

That was funny. A+++

Anoncow:

It's amazing what doesn't occur to some people in terms of basic sanitation. Seriously.

You know what kills me? When I watch highly-paid Food Network hosts touch r