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Marion Ambler 
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Re: “Goose coalition breaks with NLR over new ordinance UPDATE

I think if Hay's tried to apply this 'nuisance animal' ordinance to Canada geese he would be in violation of the Migratory Bird Convention Treaty. You cannot kill Canada geese or get a permit to kill them outside of hunting seaon unless they pose an immediate and serious health threat and anybody giving a permit otherwise is also in violation of the MBCT. Being a 'nuisance' is not an acceptable reason to kill a protected bird or a reason to hand out a permit to kill these birds.

"Further, resident Canada geese eligible for management must post a direct threat to human health. A direct threat to human health is defined as one where a Federal, State, or local public health agency has determined that resident Canada geese pose a SPECIFIC IMMEDIATE health threat because of conditions conductive to the transmission of human or zoonotic pathogens. A SITUATION WHERE RESIDENT CANADA GEESE ARE MERELY CAUSING A NUISANCE WOULD NOT BE ELIGIBLE."

Hays had not acted in good faith at any time including when he said they would try nonlethal goose management - there never was a genuine attempt to assess specific problems with the geese, identify the cause, or even do specific goose counts in both summer and winter.

There was no reason that one dog for the golf course only - and only the months it is most used - and a Naturesweep to pick up goose poop in all other areas would not have sufficed and mitigated the goose problems enough people could tolerate the geese remaining in Burns Park.

There never was an assessment or genuine goose management plan and Hays never acted in good faith at any time. BTW....how many people are golfing or playing soccer in December to about February? There was also no rational reason to be disturbing Canada geese in the middle of winter. One dog for the golf course, a Naturesweep in all other areas, and egg addling to stabilize the population would have been an effective humane plan; obviously rationality and effectiveness was beyond Mayor Hays who simply appear to have a hate on for Canada geese.

6 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Marion Ambler on 01/09/2012 at 6:14 PM

Re: “Goose coalition breaks with NLR over new ordinance UPDATE

Is NLR a city in the USA or the Banana Republic of Mayor Hay's?

6 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Marion Ambler on 01/09/2012 at 5:41 PM

Re: “BREAKING: A reprieve issued for Burns Park geese

Jill Watson Cox....instead of depending on wild Canada goose, which will be untested for environmental toxins, and which many food banks reject...why don't you try to get the city to use the thousands they would have spent on police to protect the park for three days to buy some healthy health inspected food from the supermarket.

It will cost a few thousand to pay the police to protect these quasi hunters. It is also costing $3-10 to 'process' each goose which is another roughly $600-1000. Think how much food you could buy in a supermarket for about $4,000. The hungry people very obviously are not the least concern in this slaughter because the money spent on it could have bought a LOT more food in the store. Goose meat is also difficult to cook and tastes wild..it does not taste like chicken and many people will not even like it or eat it.

On top of that the USA throws half its food away every year...so that could be a project you might like to take on in the community...educate people to give some food to food banks instead of buying way too much and throwing it away.

Posted by Marion Ambler on 12/14/2011 at 9:09 PM

Re: “BREAKING: A reprieve issued for Burns Park geese

It's ridiculous to say it would cost $3,000 to $6,000 to pay for a dog. Rescue groups have found dogs from rescue shelters can be trained to work as easily as a purebred. The golf course can get a dog, train it, and keep it there.

The golf course is a major attraction with wide open spaces, manicured grass, and ponds; it is a business and can hike up some fees from their exclusive clientele to pay for a dog to keep the geese off their goose magnet. They can also deduct a dog from income taxes as a business expense. Any golf course should consider non lethal goose management as part of their business plan.

Other areas can be managed with a Naturesweep to sweep up areas where the geese congregate including the soccer field and egg addling used to stabilize the population. There is no good reason the goose population and human/goose conflicts can't be managed non lethally and this is exactly what many civilized communities across North America are doing.

Posted by Marion Ambler on 12/14/2011 at 8:58 PM

Re: “Goose hunt delay: Baiting concern? UPDATE

Sunshine 'They hate God and guns'....

Lord save us! God and guns. A GOOSE IS PROBABLY THE MOST GODLY CREATURE ON THE PLANET Sunshine and puts most humans to shame...which is maybe one reason some people don't like it.

The famous theologian and writer Soren Kierkegaard once used the life of a goose as an illustration for a lesson he was trying to instill in his readers. He knew what a good example animals can sometimes be to people.

The Canada Goose is a role model for human beings in many ways. It remains committed to one partner. Males and females take child rearing seriously and share the responsibilities involved. A close family life is crucial to survival. Frequent communication is essential.

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/3070942

Taking turns leading the group is not the only socially admirable thing Canada geese do.

These birds are known for looking out for one another’s best interests, which includes caring for the sick and the elderly. During migrations, if one goose is too weak to carry on with the rest of the flock, another, healthy bird will stay behind with the weak bird, keeping it company and helping to protect it from predators until it regains its strength or dies. Often, the bird who stays behind will be the sick goose’s mate.

Canada geese, along with most other goose species, are monogamous and form bonded pairs. Once a goose has chosen a mate, the couple will stay together until one of them dies. When a goose’s mate has died, the goose will often take up to several years to choose another mate.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/facts-about…

The loyalty in Canada goose families is unusually strong. “Sagacity, wariness, strength, and fidelity,” commented one waterfowl expert (F. H. Kortright), “are characteristics of the Canada goose, which, collectively, are possessed in the same degree by no other bird. The Canada [goose] in many respects may serve as a model for man.”

Canadas are big and tough, but they are not bullies and are happy to live and let live – although they can be ferocious in defence of their nests and, especially, their goslings as many a fox, dog, and raccoon has learned the hard way…David Ankney, Professor Emeritus of Avian Ecology and Wildlife Management, University of Western Ontario.

.......Genesis 1:30 "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; TO YOU IT SHALL BE FOR MEAT. AND TO EVERY BEAST OF THE EARTH, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I HAVE GIVEN EVERY GREEN HERB FOR MEAT; and it was so."

At that time sin had not entered the world and there was no death when God said that.
It is interesting also that in the Old Testament the two hunters Nimrod (which also means jerk or idiot today) and Esau were ENEMIES of God.

Nimrod is the first man the bible describes as a hunter (Genesis 10:9). He was not a friend of God. Then there was Esau….sold his birthright for a bowl of porridge..the bible describes him as a man who spent his time roaming the land looking for animals to kill (Genesis 25:27).

But Jacob his brother, who became the Patriarch of the twelve tribes of Israel, is described as living the life of a farmer, tending the crops that fed his extended family.

Esau and Nimrod are considered contemptible characters; Jacob, the farmer, became the Patriarch of the twelve tribes of Israel.

"The Lord is good to all, Compassionate to every creature."
(Psalm 145:9 NAB)

"In that day I will make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and the birds of the air and the creatures that move along the ground. Bow and sword and battle I WILL ABOLISH from the land, SO THAT ALL MAY LIE DOWN IN SAFETY." (Hosea 2:18).

"From beasts we scorn as soulless, in forests, field, and den,
The cry goes up to witness the soullessness of men"…M. Frida Hartley

"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men. ~St. Francis of Assisi

Nimrod the great hunter today is the word for dull witted or jerk.

2 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by Marion Ambler on 12/14/2011 at 4:45 PM

Re: “Goose hunt delay: Baiting concern? UPDATE

John, are you dense...government health advisories; you aren't living back in the wild west. The land, air, and water is polluted and especially polluted where humans do business.

“Wild Waterfowl - Mergansers are the most heavily contaminated waterfowl species and should not be eaten. EAT NO MORE THAN TWO MEALS PER MONTH of other wild waterfowl; YOU SHOULD SKIN THEM AND REMOVE ALL THE FAT before cooking, AND DISCARD STUFFING AFTER COOKING. Wood ducks and Canada geese are less contaminated than other wild waterfowl species and diving ducks are more contaminated than dabbler ducks. (Contaminants - PCBs, mirex, chlordane, DDT).

http://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/out…

I know golf courses attract geese..they are geese magnets. The trained border collie should be only for the golf course, not the entire 1700 acre park. The golf course is a goose magnet with open spaces, short grass, and ponds. Golf courses can and should, because they are known goose magnets, include nonlethal goose management as part of their business plan and they can include it as a tax deductible business expense.

JOHN - THEY DO NOT NEED AN 'IMMEDIATE CULLING OF BIRDS'....they saw how many there were in the spring and knew there would be more after the geese nested. So why do they need an 'immediate' culling of birds? Nothing like this becomes an emergency overnight!! They are NOT an immediate and specific health threat....... "Resident Canada geese eligible for management must post a direct threat to human health. A direct threat to human health is defined as one where a Federal, State, or local public health agency has determined that resident Canada geese pose a SPECIFIC IMMEDIATE health threat because of conditions conductive to the transmission of human or zoonotic pathogens. A SITUATION WHERE RESIDENT CANADA GEESE ARE MERELY CAUSING A NUISANCE WOULD NOT BE ELIGIBLE.

According to state and university public health experts including the New Jersey Department of Health, goose feces are fairly innocuous, posing little or no health risks to humans.

Dr. Timothy Ford, professor at the Harvard School of Public Health and author of "Microbiological Safety of Drinking Water: United States and Global Perspective 1999," states: "Numbers of Cryptosporidium oocysts associated with Canada geese and waterfowl in general are likely to be minimal, unimportant relative to the potential for oocysts shed from other forms of wildlife and humans. IN MY MIND THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY THAT THE CANADA GOOSE WILL EVER BE A MAJOR ROUTE OF INFECTION. TO SUGGEST OTHERWISE IS UTTERLY LUDICROUS AND YOU CAN QUOTE ME

And David S. Adam, Coordinator of Health Projects, Vector Control, Infectious and Zoonotic Disease Program for the State of New Jersey Department of Health, writes: "Giardia lamblia, as well as Cryptosporidium, is most commonly transmitted to humans by person-to-person fecal-oral contamination or by water fecally contaminated by humans or other mammals. Infection is usually asymptomatic with children infected more frequently than adults, often in the day-care setting. In summary, the role of Canada geese in the transmission of Cryptospordium or Giardia to humans is not well established, BUT APPEARS TO BE SMALL COMPARED WITH OTHER MODES OF TRANSMISSION.”

Mr. Adams adds that CANADA GEESE HAVE BEEN WRONGLY BLAMED FOR BEACH CLOSINGS: "A number of beach closings including several in New Jersey have been attributed to this cause [high fecal coliform counts attributed to Canada geese]. However, research on this subject (including surveillance conducted in New Jersey) has usually found VERY LOW LEVELS OF PATHOGENIC BACTERIA, such as Salmonella sp., in the feces of waterfowl NOT EXPOSED TO HUMAN SEWAGE EFFLUENT:

Dr. Milton Friend, former director, Wildlife Research Center Water Fowl Disease U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, is adamant: "On occasion we have been wading in that stuff [feces], dead birds up to our elbows... THERE IS NOT A SINGLE DOCUMENTED CASE OF ANY OF US COMING DOWN WITH ANY KIND OF A DISEASE PROBLEMS AS A RESULT OF THE CANADA GOOSE...WE DO NOT HAVE A HUMAN HEALTH SITUATION, NOT IN THE URBAN GOOSE, NOT IN THE WILD GOOSE, and not in the captive geese that we have also worked with. We do have a lot of diseases out there that can affect people. MOST OF THEM COME FROM DIFFERENT PLACES AND DO NOT COME FROM THE CANADA GOOSE AND I’LL LEAVE YOU WITH THAT.”

Giardia sp., is common throughout the world. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) report that prevalence is higher in areas of poor sanitation and in institutions where children are not toilet-trained. The CDC lists "institutions and day-care centers as the principle mode of spread. " Principle reservoirs are listed as "humans, possibly beaver and domestic animals" -- geese aren't even mentioned.

How the Canada goose metamorphosed into a "major health threat" is a case study in manipulation of public -- your -- attitudes.

Addling eggs is effective; it is not difficult to identify nesting birds; and in many communities is done by volunteers.

There is something wrong with an community that aspires to have no geese in an area that is attractive to geese and water and grass especially large open spaces of grass are what attracts geese....killing what is there simply means others will see the vacuum and move in.

4 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by Marion Ambler on 12/14/2011 at 4:37 PM

Re: “Goose hunt delay: Baiting concern? UPDATE

BTW John, my city, Vancouver, BC has consistently been #1 or in the top five of most liveable cities in the world and the most desirable places to live. How's NLR been doing?

"Vancouver has ranked highly in worldwide "livable city" rankings for more than a decade according to business magazine assessments[13][14] and it was also acknowledged by Economist Intelligence Unit as the first city to rank among the top-ten of the world's most liveable cities for five straight years.[15] It has hosted many international conferences and events, including the 1954 British Empire and Commonwealth Games, Expo 86, and the World Police and Fire Games in 1989 and 2009. The 2010 Winter Olympics and 2010 Winter Paralympics were held in Vancouver and nearby Whistler, a resort community 125 km (78 mi) north of the city.[16]"

AND VANCOUVER HAS CANADA GEESE - as many or more than NLR - and we don't allow 'urban hunting'. The permanent resident goose population here has been managed nonlethally for 30 years with egg addling. Vancouverites are healthy and there has never been any disease related to our Canada geese. There is no legitimate reason for this emergent need to kill birds in NLR or why simply stabilizing their population isn't feasible. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2…

6 likes, 5 dislikes
Posted by Marion Ambler on 12/14/2011 at 1:10 PM

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