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taxedenough 
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Re: “Tim Griffin flipflops on Fair Tax UPDATE

Dutchman3,

Your figure of 30-million families receiving a free ride, because they receive poverty level income or less, is way too high. According to the 2009 Census, 8.8 million families are earning poverty level income or less. I believe we both agreed that 47% of the population currently pays no income tax. This represents 144-million people. According to the census bureau, the average size of the American family is 3.14. Based on these figures, 45.8-million families current pay no income tax. Since 45.8 million families current pay no income tax and 8.8-million of these families earn poverty level income or less, 37 million of those currently paying no income tax are earning above poverty level income, which means they will be paying tax under the FairTax. I believe the introduction of 37 million new taxpayers into the system is more important than the 8.8 really poor people who will receive a free ride.

Posted by taxedenough on 09/19/2010 at 11:49 PM

Re: “Tim Griffin flipflops on Fair Tax UPDATE

Dutchman3,

(1) I agree, if enacted, the FairTax should not tax government consumption. This makes no sense. It’s like me charging myself to mow my own lawn. And if state and local governments pay a consumption tax, they will just pass it on to the people.

(2) I really don’t believe the FairTax will, as you put it, throw seniors under the bus. My mom and dad are seniors living on S.S., a small pension, and a small amount of interest from their IRA’s . My dad is the one who made me aware of the FairTax. He invited me to a local FairTax meeting that takes place on the first Tuesday of each month. Needless to say, almost everyone at the meeting were seniors. Even though my parents pay no income tax, my dad said his main reason for supporting the FairTax is the benefits it offers to future generations. He said if the FairTax had been in place during his lifetime, there would have been far fewer economic downturns. Right now, due to unemployment, S.S. is not collecting enough revenue. Since consumption does not fluctuate much during slow economic times, consumption rather than income is a much more stable taxing base.

(3) Your figure of less than 1-million families pay no net federal tax is way off. Right now 47% of the population pays no federal income tax. And in 2008, 23.7 million low-income families and individuals received EITC benefits totaling $49.3 billion. Yes, you could call the prebate an entitlement, but it is meant to help offset the tax on necessity item. Yes, there could be a list of non-taxable items, but it is much easier to just tax everything and issue a prebate to offset the tax up to the poverty level. Under the FairTax, everyone will receive the same prebate all based on family size. If you have a list of tax exempt items, the wealth will benefit much more than the poor; wealthy people purchase stake, poor people purchase hamburger.

Posted by taxedenough on 09/19/2010 at 7:47 PM

Re: “Tim Griffin flipflops on Fair Tax UPDATE

Max Brantley,

From your previous posts, it is clear to me you know very little about the FairTax. Just like you, every critic including Bruce Bartlett has had considerable amounts of miss information in their criticism. With the upcoming elections, many Democrats are trying to mislead people by suggesting their opponents, who support the FairTax, are trying to raise taxes by 23%. They don’t even mention the fact that the FairTax will replace all other federal taxes. They just make it sound like the FairTax is an additional 23% tax. They know if they were to give a complete explanation, the voters would wonder why they too are not supporting the FairTax.

Opponents mislead by stating the FairTax will hurt the poor and middle class. I am a middle class income earner and if you read my previous posts, you will see just how much I would benefit under the FairTax. As for the poor they will basically be untaxed because of the prebate.

As for the wealthy, unlike our current system, every dime they earn will eventually be taxed. It many not all be taxed directly by their spending, but eventually their heirs will spend this wealth and it will be taxed.

Posted by taxedenough on 09/19/2010 at 1:47 PM

Re: “Tim Griffin flipflops on Fair Tax UPDATE

Dutchman3

Well I guess if you say the only legitimate comparison would be to compare what is to what might be, then you need to read my post dated Sept. 18 at 11:03. You will see what it is and what it would be for me under the FairTax; at least according to your figures.

Posted by taxedenough on 09/18/2010 at 10:22 PM

Re: “Tim Griffin flipflops on Fair Tax UPDATE

Max Brantley,

Under the FairTax, for every dollar you spend 23-cents goes to the government. If you wish to call this a 30% exclusive tax or a 23% inclusive tax, it doesn’t matter; it is the same. But the bottom line is if you spend $81,000, under the FairTax $18,630 will go to the government not $24,000. I would need to spend $104,348 if to generate a tax of $24,000. If you are going to throw figures around at least be accurate.

Posted by taxedenough on 09/18/2010 at 7:17 PM

Re: “Tim Griffin flipflops on Fair Tax UPDATE

Dutchman3

Of course you need to compare equal incomes under both systems to get an accurate comparison of the total tax liability for that amount of income. You state we are comparing tax collection systems. Well if you are comparing tax system, and you wish to determine which system will result in the highest tax for a given income, you can’t use one income for one system and a different income for the other system; if you do not you are comparing apples to oranges.

Posted by taxedenough on 09/18/2010 at 11:03 AM

Re: “Tim Griffin flipflops on Fair Tax UPDATE

Dutchman3

When I said retail prices would go down, I meant before tax prices. Let’s use your figure of an 18% after tax increase in prices which I believe will be lower but let’s assume you are correct. Under our current system my buying power was $68,519. This is my net after tax spendable income which includes the $800 credit I failed to deduct. If under our current system if retail prices increased by 18%, my after tax earnings would need to be $80,852 to generate the same buying power. Under the FairTax, I will have $87,945 to cover this 18% increase in prices. My actual buying power under the FairTax would increase by $7093 and that is with the 18% increase in retail prices.

Posted by taxedenough on 09/18/2010 at 10:52 AM

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